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4 Oct 2008
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... was told that they have been having problems with the TKC's sealing onto the bead..
Thanks for reminder as I'm about to try this. I presume you were using a TL TKC front, not an old TT or Tube Type (easily missed when ordering as I just found out)? Not that I'm sure what the difference in bead surfaces might be but I imagine the carcass of a TL tyre is better made to deal with plugs: here a rear TL TKC is 30% more expensive than a TT in the same size which one hopes is reassuring.
i could never find a leak (soapy water) and all blow-outs were quite instant. Truth is, i'm really not sure what failed, the sealant or the tire.
Would the marginally bigger diametre of a 21" make more centrifugal force to help delaminate it if it was not cured/stuck on well? Though would not tyre pressure hold it in place [did i mention this earlier?]? Even if it delaminated all at once would enough air leak out via the nipples to cause and instant blow out as you say?
If i was to seal a rim, i would use Sikoflex marine sealant. First buff the aluminum with a stainless wire wheel to give the sealant some tooth, apply sealant and let it cure. Sikoflex will stick to aluminum permanantly, so this is a one way trip!
Found 'Sikaflex Sealant 291'. Looks like '3M 5200' but 30% cheaper.
Remember that the space where the spokes go is required for removing the tire, so your sealant could easily become damaged if your not careful.
I would put the rim tape back over the sealant and/or wrap on some duct tape.
Ch
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5 Oct 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mollydog
If you convert to a truly tubeless system then the real advantage is the speed and ease to flat repair.
1. Find nail or screw, pull out.
2. Rheem hole
3. slobber glue on
4. Insert string or plug
5. Air up.
6. Ride away.
THIS is the point of Tube less.
As noted, loss of air with tubeless is also slower, meaning you have time to react to a flat and move to safety.
SLIME and other products can also help. It may not totally, permanently prevent a flat but can almost Always slow air Loss!  |
fill inner tube with proscribed amount of puncture seal, then;
1.find nail or screw, pull out
2.ignore 2-5
6.ride away
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dave
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5 Oct 2008
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An important point that I think is missed here, or at least I didn't see it:
Tubeless RIMS are a different design than tube-type.
Tubeless rims normally have a small "safety" ridge - it's small (2-3mm or so high) it's easily missed if you're not looking. It's just inside where the tire bead sits. It's positioned and designed to help hold the tire on the rim more securely - and is also why they're so hard to break the bead on. Without this ridge, if you have a flat on a tube type rim, the tire is more likely to flop around and break the bead - which with a tube is no biggie, it'll just pop back on, but with tubeless means instant and total deflation.
As a result, I NEVER recommend converting a tube-type rim to tubeless.
Also it's quite easy to damage a tubeless tire so much it won't hold air, but can still be ridden ok with a tube installed inside, so you still need to carry tubes.
You can see the ridge here:
Welcome to PS1000LE.NET
I AM a big fan of tubeless tires/rims. I have one on the front of my bike, (whole new forks, wheel and rim) but sadly not on the back - not possible.
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5 Oct 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant Johnson
I AM a big fan of tubeless tires/rims. I have one on the front of my bike, (whole new forks, wheel and rim) but sadly not on the back - not possible.
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Everything is possible with an airhead: http://i25.tinypic.com/oscrpt.jpg
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5 Oct 2008
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But if you get and IN And OUT puncture ... away quickly.
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Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!
Last edited by mollydog; 26 Mar 2009 at 19:19.
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5 Oct 2008
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A rear flat can ruin your whole day!
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Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!
Last edited by mollydog; 26 Mar 2009 at 19:19.
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20 Oct 2008
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tubeless conversion
Tubeless rims normally have a small "safety" ridge - it's small (2-3mm or so high) it's easily missed if you're not looking.
Bikes equipped from the factory with tubed tyres have that ridge too on the rear wheel. My 86' Tagasako-shod Tenere did and so does my current Italian-rimmed Tenere - and Triumphs too as Patrick points out. It makes hand changing and mounting a rear chore.
Without this ridge, if you have a flat on a tube type rim, the tire is more likely to flop around and break the bead - which with a tube is no biggie, it'll just pop back on, but with tubeless means instant and total deflation.
It'll pop back on once you repair it of course but surely - depending on the cause - deflation can be instant and total whatever the tyre? And I hear that TL goes down slower and more controllably than tubed.
The knack is in remounting a TL tyre without a tube but check my link below, with a strap, a pump and maybe some soap it can be done even on a lip-rim. An electric pump is all the better but a bloke on 'youtube' no less did it with a stirrup pump at 22 psi!
Also, it seems not all rims are the same, even among tube type rims... some bikes (mine included) .... will hold the bead very well using the stock tube type wheel.
This is true. Some rims get on much better with certain tyres.
Anyway, thanks for the ideas and interest to my initial query everyone.
Ch
November 27 - 4000 miles later - read my conclusions on the link below:
Adventure Motorcycling - spoke motorcycle wheel tubeless conversion (XTZ 660)
or here now: http://adventuremotorcyclinghandbook...ubeless-tyres/
Last edited by Chris Scott; 26 Feb 2012 at 12:09.
Reason: Update
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21 Oct 2008
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Tubeless spoked wheels!
Hi Chris
There are some wheels on the market called "Alpina" that are designed for Supermoto racing. They are spoked, t/less and mainly 17 inch front and rear but cost about £1200:00 sterling a pair. I'm not sure who the uk importer is but I'm sure a quick search on google and you'd find them.
It would be worth a phone call to Central Wheel Components in Coleshill as I've found them to be very helpfull in the past : 01675 462264
As for adapting a normal set of spoked wheels, for safety reasons I wouldn't go there. Maybe ok riding around town but for any type of overland trip??? I'm sure if it had been done sucessfully there would be a product/kit available for everyone.
How about lacing a set of Bmw rims onto a custom made hub?
just a thought
Kev
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21 Oct 2008
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Hot Melt glue and crossed fingers? :confused1:
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3 Apr 2009
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Looks like the NueTech Tubliss is readily available in 18", a few guys over on Advrider are running it. Not sure about the 21".
Would be cool not to get any more pinch flats, as well as leaving those heavy spare tubes at home.
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3 Apr 2009
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Maybe in a year...
Quote:
Originally Posted by LukasM
Looks like the NueTech Tubliss is readily available in 18", a few guys over on Advrider are running it. Not sure about the 21".
Would be cool not to get any more pinch flats, as well as leaving those heavy spare tubes at home.
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I've also been watching Nuetech developments; like others, hoping to go tubeless for the weight loss of heavy duty tubes and the ease of repair.
I got this reply from Jeff Douglas at the company last week:
"Thanks for your e-mail & interest.
At this time our TUbliss inserts are NOT D.O.T. approved, so we cannot recommend in any way for On-Road use. We will be looking into on-road certification early next year & hope to know more at that time."
I'll be checking back then to see; although if a 21" shows up I might try them off-road in the meantime. (I have 2 sets of wheels.)
Stephan
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3 Apr 2009
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Non-DOT certified doesn't mean they won't work on the street, in fact some of the guys are reporting that they are doing just that with no problems. This is more of a certification (read $$$) issue.
Apparently even normal tubes are not certified by DOT, it has just never been challenged in a court (can't confirm if this is true).
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3 Apr 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LukasM
Non-DOT certified doesn't mean they won't work on the street, in fact some of the guys are reporting that they are doing just that with no problems. This is more of a certification (read $$$) issue.
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I'm sure they'll work on roads up to a point but I'm planning a long trip away from my garage. I need to be sure that long-term use at highway speeds is reliable. If any of the ADvrider guys are doing extended travel on highways etc. I'd be really interested to hear of their experiences. Please post any useful links you have. Thanks, Lukas.
Meanwhile, I'm happy to wait and hopefully try them closer to home, on/off road with knobbies.
Stephan
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3 Apr 2009
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Stephan,
I can absolutely understand, that would be critical for me as well. We'll have to wait a bit more for some long term reliability reports to come in. But just thinking about it, I don't see how road use would be a problem. Unlike mousse, which heats up - and subsequently disintegrates - at high speeds due to rubbing on the tire wall, Tubliss actually creates less heat than a normal tube. There is nothing to rub after all.
Even if you have a sudden blow out somehow, the Tubliss should hold the sidewall in place similar to the special bead on real tubeless rims.
The review by the MX magazine even mentioned that they were able to finish a race with an empty tire (not sure how that happened in the first place, though).
This is the current thread on Advrider:
Nutech TuBliss system - ADVrider
I'll post any new findings here as well.
Lukas
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3 Apr 2009
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I also just read that they have shipped some 21" as well, the guy on Advrider has them on both ends.
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