Ahhh, Citroens, Gileras, Zanellas... brings back good memories.

Thank you very much for taking the time to write this post, it has been very helpful for us folks planning on purchasing a bike/car in Arg ....

Ride safe y portate bien!!!!

__________________
John C.

Just received a text message from "Ramblin Man" Jeff Condon. He and his 1973 Citroen 3cv made it to Mar del Plata (vacation beaches for a whole lot of Argentines JAN-FEB- and into March) it is stormy there and he and Cristina are resting after a flawless drive from Buenos Aires.

Keeping you updated with facts regarding Buy/Tour/Sell in Argentina is what this thread is all about and I learned some new facts today. Elisa and I visited our friend Jorge Nacandakare at GENAMAX Official Honda dealer here in Buenos Aires for more than 30 years, and the first in Argentina.( AV. Juan B Justo 7550)

I am promoting GENAMAX only because we know by our own experience that GENAMAX is a reputable, capable (brand new shop) and fair Honda dealership.

We invited with us a Frenchman who is a legal foreign resident of Argentina (has his DNI). Our purpose was to check availability and current prices of a new Transalp XL700, NX 400 Falcon and a XR 250 Tornado with the idea in mind to buy new/ tour and sell back to the dealer after touring.

2008 Transalp XL700 with ABS is: $15,800 USD
2008 Transalp XL700 without ABS is: $14,600 USD

I just learned from a contact in England that Transalps are less expensive there and that probably is true because Transalps are imported from Japan, not manufactured by Honda in Brazil like the following two bikes:

On the other hand we discovered the current price for:

2008 NX400 Falcon $6,900 USD

2008 XR250 tornado $5000 USD

Depending on the cost of the bike, registration, plates etc. will cost between $200.USD and $300 USD.

A Transalp ordered today 07feb08 will be available around the middle of March. Either the NX400 or XR250 ordered today will be available around the first of March.

Insurance is cheap unless you buy theft coverage available from USCB bank here at a little less than $100 USD/month. Required liability insurance is around $100 for six months.

Once a foreign tourist obtains his/her Domocilio and CDI (explained in great detail in this thread) - a three day to four day process. He/she can legally purchase a new or used bike in Argentina. The bike can be pre ordered.

Jorge Nakandakare offers a buy back plan for the bikes described above at 50% to 75% of purchase price, depending on condition of bike, milage etc. Honda covers the bikes with full warranty for 12,000 k or one year whatever comes first.

So, what does this example mean to you? For the wealthy, probably nothing, for the not so wealthy it means with a very reasonable amount of your hard earned money, you can fly to Buenos Aires, buy either an NX400 or XR250, tour Argentina and sell your bike back to the dealer for 1/2 or 3/4 what you paid for it new. Or, arrange to sell it to a buddy etc.

So let's say you buy an NX400 (the bike I bought new from Jorge Nakandakare and still ride) for $7,000 USD. You tour Argentina for 1 month on the cheap -camping- bush camping - food - gas - fun etc at $25 -50 USD a day totaling: $1,500 USD at $50 USD a day or $750 USD at $25 USD a day.

You ride back to Buenos Aires sell your bike to Jorge Nakandakare for 70% of purchase or approximately $5000 USD.

With the only real cost of your one month ride around Argentina, the round trip air fare, sea fare or bus fare plus your expenses of approximately $1,500 for the month and the $2000 USD cost of having a brand new NX400 that you may or may not want to sell back to the dealer for approximately $5000 USD. Not a lot of money considering the alternatives.

Or, You might consider safely and economically storing your new bike with us, Elisa and I , in Buenos Aires, and have it ready and waiting for your next Tour.

Thanks for the generous comments regarding this thread. I will continue posting as long as I believe my posts are of interest to those who might consider buying/touring/selling in Argentina. Many of you are writing me privately at: pcvolunteers800@hotmail.com Comments or experiences welcome, especially from veteran Hubbers, thanks xfiltrate

__________________
Motorcycle Parking Buenos Aires, Argentina
www.xfiltrate.com
Discover how to legally Buy, Tour and Sell a motorcycle in Argentina

Time for an update. In another thread Goetz asked for the maximum time given for Temporary Import of Motor Vehicles for all countries of South America.

I am hereby tasking myself and some of you, to find out. First, I have discovered that some South American countries (not Argentina) place a stamp in your passport indicating you have entered as a foreign tourist with a bike/motor vehicle. Argentina does not indicate in the tourist's passport that the foreign tourist has entered Argentina with a bike/motor vehicle.

What does this mean to the foreign motor tourists who decide to store their bikes in South American countries? In Argentina, foreign motor tourists are able to leave Argentina and return to Argentina without their bike/motor vehicle. The foreign motor tourist can request, upon entry to Argentina, a temporary motor vehicle import permit for up to 8 months. I have personally seen Argentine temporary motor vehicle permits issued for up to one year. The law states 8 months.

At this point, I do not know the laws of other South American countries. Once the bike/motor vehicle info is entered into a foreign motor tourist's passport, whether or not that foreign motor tourist can legally leave other South American countries without the bike/motor vehicle?

Please help Goetz and others by accurately answering the following questions:

1. Do you know any South American countries that DO NOT stamp the passport of incoming foreign motor tourists with the fact that the foreign motor tourist entered with a bike/motor vehicle?

2. Do you know any South American countries that DO stamp the passports of incoming foreign motor tourists with the fact that the foreign motor tourist entered with a bike/motor vehicle?

3. Do you know the maximum length of time for a temporary motor vehicle import permit issued to a foreign motor tourist , for any South American country?

Please post your information on this thread as it will be helpful to those wanting to Buy/Tour/Sell in Argentina and to others. thankyou

Jeff Condon rolled in this morning. His 1974 Citroen 3cv performed admirably for its 1000 K break in run to the beaches of Argentina. He will be off again soon.

Keep checking this thread for a new topic: "How a foreign tourist can legally sell a foreign registered bike in Argentina,"

And, of course, check in for the "How to legally tour all of South America and the Sell in Argentina" info this thread is designed to provide you.

President Cristina, just elected, just added 600 new traffic police to the streets of Buenos Aires, after an alarming number of highway deaths and street crimes have been reported for 2007.

A young man from France, second in a couple days, stopped by wanting to buy a Norton in Buenos Aires for the purpose of doing Che's ride. Interesting! Any one selling a Norton in Buenos Aires? xfiltrate

__________________
Motorcycle Parking Buenos Aires, Argentina
www.xfiltrate.com
Discover how to legally Buy, Tour and Sell a motorcycle in Argentina

New developments are as follows. The Frenchman returned, met Jeff Condon and they will be driving to La Platta 80K and Rosario 400K to check out two Nortons.

Now prepared with the data provided in this thread, plus the advantage of the real experience of already buying used in Argentina, the Frenchman and Jeff feel confident not only with their substantial abilities to determine the mechanical condition of the Norton, but with their data base regarding documentation and potential transfer of title.

The Frenchman quickly applied for and received his "domocillio" from his local police district and next week will obtain his CDI from the appropriate AFIP office. (see info, this thread, for definitions of "Domocillio" and CDI, and the importance for a foreign tourist to secure these documents if purchasing a new or used bike in Argentina)

The information below is requested and will be included in the upcoming "TOUR ALL OF SOUTH AMERICA," part of this thread.

When this thread is over, and hundreds more foreign tourists are purchasing new or used bikes in Argentina, legally touring all of South America and then selling or parking their bikes in Argentina, how will you answer the this question?

DID I HELP? - Now is your chance to help if you can answer any of the following questions.

1. Do you know any South American countries that DO NOT stamp the passport of incoming foreign motor tourists with the fact that the foreign motor tourist entered with a bike/motor vehicle?

2. Do you know any South American countries that DO stamp the passports of incoming foreign motor tourists with the fact that the foreign motor tourist entered with a bike/motor vehicle?

3. Do you know the maximum length of time for a temporary motor vehicle import permit issued to a foreign motor tourist , for any South American country?

Please post your information on this thread as it will be helpful to those wanting to Buy/Tour/Sell in Argentina and to others. It will be greatly appreciated. thank you xfiltrate

__________________
Motorcycle Parking Buenos Aires, Argentina
www.xfiltrate.com
Discover how to legally Buy, Tour and Sell a motorcycle in Argentina

Great thread! Thanx for all your effort. Here's my contribution: Mexico does not stamp the bike into your passport, but their computer system is far more advanced than all the other countries in L.America. Don't think you can fool them! I entered Guatemala Jan 13/07. You only get stamped into Guatemala and out of Nicaragua, there are no immigration stamps for El Salvador, Honduras and Nicaragua, BUT, only Honduras stamps the BIKE into your passport. I believe all countries provide a three month permit or less. Costa Rica is not part of the immigration alliance but does not stamp the bike into your passport. Panama is a different story, here i had to purchase two "sticker" stamps for $10 and put them into my passport, then the guy in Aduana placed his stamps on top of these, so my bike was indeed stamped into Panama, but i have heard mixed reviews on this, YMMV. Neither Colombia or Ecuador stamp the bike into your passport. I have flown from both countries while my bike was in the country without any problems.
In review, the countries that stamp your bike into your passport are only Honduras and Panama. The countries that do not stamp the bike into your passport are Mexico, Guatemala, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, Colombia and Ecuador. Sorry, i can't comment on Belize, Venezuela, Brazil, Peru, Bolivia, Chile, Paraguay, Uruguay or Argentina.

1st question= YES.

As to the girlfriend....a picture says a 1000 words... ;o)

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Take offs are optional.. but landings are mandatory!

Dear 412driver, You have certainly made your point that a "picture is worth a thousand words" by including a self portrait with your generous post.

Just this morning Jeff once again streaked out of Buenos Aires in his newly restored yellow 1974 Citroen 3cv, named "Cristina" you know the one with the two cylinder 600 cc engine. He is headed for the falls in the triple corners area.

If Jeff had a "girlfriend," I might be able to comply with your request for a picture. Unfortunately, starting with the letter A, Jeff has four Alejandras. I have personally observed, (not with quite the same flare of observation, as you exhibit in your 1000 word + self portrait), 2 of the 4 Alejandras. I know only of other 2 Alejandras from hearing sounds in the night. Jeff rented our adjoining private room with private entrance and bath. The 2, I have met are, as I said, hot, hot, hot.

It is doubtful that Jeff with his multi-alphabetical callings, would be willing to post a picture of his "girlfriend." Please consider there are four girlfriends with names beginning with the letter A. Not to mention the remaining 26 letters of the alphabet, many of each representing more or less the same number of "girlfriends,"

I sincerely hope this does not disappoint you, but am relieved that you look so very contented as you are, without the advantage of yet, one more photo of one more beautiful woman.

Could you please share the secrete of your very obvious state of serenity with us? Serenity: the state of being of not needing or wanting anything.

As is my accepted task of providing needed and wanted information to foreign moto tourists, I will pass on your request to Jeff. Much stranger things have happened, he might comply, he is a giver. Thank you for your kind acknowledgment of this thread. xfiltrate

__________________
Motorcycle Parking Buenos Aires, Argentina
www.xfiltrate.com
Discover how to legally Buy, Tour and Sell a motorcycle in Argentina

In my experience

1- Countries that do not stamp your vehicule in your passport

Argentina, Bolivia, Chile, Paraguay, Brazil

2- Countries that do stamp your vehicule in your passport

Venezuela : Duration 3 month

3- Maximum duration

Argentina 8 month (12 Month at the borders to Tierra del Fuego)
In Paraguay, at the border with Argentina coming from Formosa, they refused to give me an customs import paper, but rules there are unclear, due to the high level of corruption.

Thanks Voteks, I will incorporate your valuable data into data base of upcoming simplified edition of this thread.

Now I am feeling a bit more contented and *serene. Your efforts are appreciated. Where are you now?

Might I list you as a consultant for this thread? Many have questions, few have been forthcoming with accurate answers like you, but we are changing that thanks to experienced riders like yourself. thanks xfiltrate

* please refer to 2 posts immediately preceding your post.

__________________
Motorcycle Parking Buenos Aires, Argentina
www.xfiltrate.com
Discover how to legally Buy, Tour and Sell a motorcycle in Argentina

I m in Santa Elena de Uairen, Gran Savana, at the border between Brazil and Venezuela.

If you have any question about those countries, feel free to send me private messages.

I dont need any official recognition for those informations...this is not a work, just leisure time. Helping others is very egotistical since it makes you feel better.

I m not an experienced rider, I m a tourist travelling with a convenient means of transportation.

Regards

Philippe

Edited to add a post scriptum : I wonder why anybody willing to travel on a bike in South America should buy a motorcycle in Argentina with all the paper trouble while it s cheaper and way faster to do it in Paraguay...I m confused here...

Yes, we agree that helping others makes one feel good.

The psychiatrists did their best to destroy that feeling and the concept of helping others, by inventing (absolute academic fabrication) the concept of EGO.

In my opinion, there is no such thing as EGO, it is only a fabrication much like the multitude of other psychiatric illnesses like hyper activity, attention deficit disorder, manic depressive, etc. etc etc, each justifying a part of the billion dollar pharmaceutical industry that creates, markets and sell pills that treat symptoms and not causes of mental illnesses.

While I respect your point of view, the feeling of goodness I experience when helping others is real for me and since I believe that the concepts of id, ego and super ego, created by a drug addicted psychiatrist named Dr. Freud, whose work, except for his research into sexuality, has been proven not to help in the treatment of mental illness and has been heavily discounted by modern psycho therapists.

Matter of fact the state of psycho therapy is in such shambles today that 1/3 of all mental patients get better, 1/3 get worst, and 1/3 stay exactly the same no matter what manner of treatment they receive., including pills, injections and electroshock, all form of psychology, psychiatry .

The exact same statistic is true for mental patients if left alone (not treated in any way) and given only friendship, food and shelter. This is a replicable fact proven over and over by many different studies and with extensive peer review panels.

Of course, this is not good news for the big pharmaceutical companies, but even the studies funded by pharmaceutical companies yielded the same results. I am speaking here to mental illness only.

Dietary changes and the discovery that mental illness can be caused by allergies to certain foods is the only treatment that has been proven to be more sucessful than the above described model.

I do believe, if a person is ethical, the natural state is to help others and the act of helping others survive is rewarded with a feeling of goodness. Best high I know. xfiltrate

__________________
Motorcycle Parking Buenos Aires, Argentina
www.xfiltrate.com
Discover how to legally Buy, Tour and Sell a motorcycle in Argentina

This thread has possibly generated more questions than it has answered. I am being inundated with questions via e-mail and telephone. Don't stop, it is how we grow.

If I am slow in posting an answer to your particular question, it might be because the answer requires research. For example, Jeff, a foreign tourist from New Zealand, bought a 1974 Citroen 3cv legally, in Buenos Aires and is now touring.

Each step of the his purchase was carefully monitored and reported here. With the information already provided, any foreign tourist now has the information necessary to buy a new or used bike/motor vehicle in Argentina.

Update on Jeff: last significant communication via texted telephone messages stated. "I forgot my cup, I am 250 k out can you bring it to me?"

Reply: "NO!" Next Message: No worries mate, I found an old bottle and cut it in half and now i have a cup.

You can see by his eloquent style that he is doing well and probably drinking a .

SELL IN ARGENTINA

Next up is the SELL part of this thread. A few questions regarding how a foreign tourist can sell a foreign registered bike in Argentina have come in . I tried to deal with one of those questions in another thread entitled:

"Selling moto in Chile/Arg to another traveller - process please?"
by TSJourney

I caution readers, and as stated in my post that tread, (see other thread for my comments) my idea may or may not work.

NOTE: I am currently in the "process" of registering a foreign registered bike in Argentina and will post the exact process over the next couple weeks, or months.

At first blush, it appears that the foreign tourist "owner" should register his/her bike in Argentina. This would require the services of a GESTOR (one who transfers motor vehicle titles as a business). The GESTOR must be provided the original clear title and registration of the bike AND, have the bike available for determination of value by ADUANA (customs).

The foreign moto tourist will probably pay an "import tax" at 40% of the appraised value of the bike. This percentage might vary depending on the type of bike, year the bike was manufactured and the appraised value itself.

Once the import taix is paid, the bike can now be registered in Argentina, I think. This process will be done by my GESTOR and I will post in detail for you. THIS IS MY BEST GUESS AT THIS POINT!

Once the bike is registered in Argentina, simply reverse the BUY part of this thread and the bike can then be sold to another foreign tourist or an Argentine.

ADDITIONAL NOTE: After a short test ride on my Honda Falcon, and deciding that finding and restoring a NORTON was too timely and expensive, one of the two Frenchmen who visited with us, has identified a used Honda Falcon, NX400 for sale here, and armed with the information in this thread, is attempting to purchase it for the purpose of touring South America. As far as I know he is not planning on having an Argentine *co-owner, but will take his chances crossing into Chile as a foreign tourist riding an Argentine registered bike. As I learn more, I will post.

*See earlier posts, this thread, regarding a workable plan for a foreign tourist riding an Argentine bike can tour all of South America.

So, another example of buying used in Argentina is in the works and the SELL part of this thread is just starting.

YOU CAN HELP!

1. Do you know any South American countries that DO NOT stamp the passport of incoming foreign motor tourists with the fact that the foreign motor tourist entered with a bike/motor vehicle?

2. Do you know any South American countries that DO stamp the passports of incoming foreign motor tourists with the fact that the foreign motor tourist entered with a bike/motor vehicle?

3. Do you know the maximum length of time for a temporary motor vehicle import permit issued to a foreign motor tourist , for any South American country?

Please post your information on this thread as it will be helpful to those wanting to Buy/Tour/Sell in Argentina and to others. It will be greatly appreciated. thank you xfiltrate

__________________
Motorcycle Parking Buenos Aires, Argentina
www.xfiltrate.com
Discover how to legally Buy, Tour and Sell a motorcycle in Argentina

Hi Eduard
I was told and had the chance to see the passport of a german friend that entered and left Uruguay with bike that the only mark he got on his passport was an pencil(graphite) marking as "moto". Easy to erase.
Maximum time in Uruguay is 12 month.
Again i can´t confirm if they stamp,mark on or just do nothing on your passport.This was the only case i asked.Will be opening eyes now.
Good luck on your research!
Karl

__________________
http://vientoderipio.blogspot.com/
America is a nice continent,not a country.All people who lives in this continent are americans.Discover it in peace!

Thank you for the information about URUGUAY. If you travel to URUGUAY on Boquebus (the ferry) from Buenos Aires, your bike and you are definitely linked by computer. I have not entered URUGUAY by land or bridge, so any info is indeed welcome.

Now about PARAGUAY!

---At this point in time, any info regarding the "on the ground realities" about PARAGUAY is also wanted and needed. From what I have experienced and what has been related to me by those with first hand experience, PARAGUAY is governed like a frontier western town of the mid to late 19th century in the good ol USA.

I could be wrong here, and will revise as others contribute experiences. For some PARAGUAY , just being PARAGUAY is very interesting and an absolute favorite for real adventurers.

Please check the experience I had in obtaining a visa for PARAGUAY on a thread by Gotogoto entitled: Does Paraguay still have a $50 tourist visa fee?

Thanks again, xfiltrate

__________________
Motorcycle Parking Buenos Aires, Argentina
www.xfiltrate.com
Discover how to legally Buy, Tour and Sell a motorcycle in Argentina

As European, i didnt need to pay anything to enter the country.

First time i crossed the border at Clorinda, i went thru the ferry gate as it shortens the riding distance to Asuncion by 40 km. When i debarked, i was given a small piece of paper with a number and was told to show it at the border while coming back at the same border.

I went back to the very same border crossing the rio paraguay by ferry, but the border was closed (it closes on week end) I didnt feel like going back to the down and riding by night back to Argentina, so i asked how i could cross. The police officers told me i could cross with the motorcycle on a small row boat. Then they asked me a 50 pesos fine "for staying less than 3 days with the vehicule" in the country. This law of course doesnt exist, it was just a way to ask a propina for the "service". Once crossed i went to the main road border at Clorinda and did the Argentine entrance, which took some time since they had to check if my story was true.

The second time i crossed the border, this time on the main road entrance, I asked for if i needed any special paper, but the clerk just answered no and i entered the country with no problem, with vehicule unknown by the administration.

The third time, i took the ferry again. This time i was given an importation paper for 15 days (i said i didnt need more to cross the country). All luggage was checked and my argentine friend got body controlled in the office. They had a record of the motorcycle in the computer from the first time i crossed. When i asked why i wasnt given any document at the main entrance, they couldnt explain and said that like any country you need to declare your vehicule. Looks like officers at the main border just dont want to bother with papers as they mainly get argentine visitors that dont need to declare their vehicule (Mercosur)

When i left the country at the northern border (Punta Pora) I left the paper at the aduana. They promissed to process it the day after since it was Xmas. But i could have left without giving it anyways since there is no border control there, the street making a border with the brazilian side of the town.

BTW, i need to enquiere more but it seems that it could be bought a new motorcycle at bargain price in Venezuela. Vehicules are imported at the official change ( one dollar = 2 bolivares) but due to the foreign currency exchange control, many venezuelians have accounts overseas and willing to buy hard currencies at the price of bonds ( one dollar = 5 bolivares ). So in theory you could buy a new or used motorcycle at 40% of its price. I didnt do it practically so this has to be investigated