Gents, I'm an Australian who has done extensive international motorcycle touring over the last 30+ years and am now able to tackle the final frontiers - China and Russia.

I had originally hoped to be able to ship my bike to Vietnam then ride through China, Mongolia, Russia, the Stans etc., then up into Finland before heading south to Italy. However, all my reading suggests that China is a no-goer for importing and I am now considering 2 options.

1. Ship my bike to Vladivostok, fly to Vietnam, cross border to China and buy a smallish bike in Nanning ride up to Mongolia, sell it and then take the trans Siberian to Vladivostok to pick up my own bike (or possbly ride across to Harbin and sell the bike there;

or

2. Buy a decent sized bike (400cc+) in China and use it for the whole journey.

I'm planning to arrive in China in mid - late April but I am struggling to find out details of what I can buy in China and how much I will pay.

For a small bike the Qinqi 200 looks to be the go, but they also have 250 twins (old GSX250s I understand) which might be more suited.

On the other hand, Qingqi seems to build a 400cc scooter for Peugeot (Satelis) but I don't know if this can be purchased locally in China.

Alternatively, are there any used larger capacity Japanese bikes which may be available? I'm not keen on the ex PLA outfits but may consider a solo unit.

I do need to act quickly as I hope to be there in mid-late April.

I'm not averse to "taking risks" but I do need an appreciation of what I can and can't buy. One risk I'm not prepared to take is to get to China expecting to buy a bike suitable to ride to Europe on and then find they are not available, just about anything else goes though.

Any and all information regarding bike choices, companies/dealers to contact, sample pricing, buying new vs. used, etc. is much appreciated.

Garry from Oz.

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Garry from Oz - powered by Burgman

The China problem...

It is not 'just' a matter of the bike ... rego, insurance

There is also your licence. When I wnet there in '88 as part of a motorcycle tour group we had licences issued to us .. part of that was a complete medical .. in china. I belive this is somewhat simpler now, but it still needs some paprework. An IDP .. I don't think that works in China...

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Starting in Vladivostok is doable .. and more realist given your start time. Got your paperwork sorted, bike shippment sorted?

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Regards Frank Warner
motorcycles BMW R80 G/S 1981, BMW K11LT 1993, BMW K75 G/S

Hi Frank, I'm in the process of getting sorted for Russia -

Business visa invitation applied for. Once received I will apply for visa.
Shipping company arranged - will crate and arrange pickup form my home the week before I ship.

China visa received.
Vietnam visa currently being processed.
Will apply for Mongolian and Kazakhstan visas in Beijing.

IDP in hand, is there anything else I need to consider for Russia?

As far as China goes I recognise that I wil probably have to go "ïllegal" re licence, insurance etc., but I'm prepared to take that risk.

I've had a fair bit of experience bluffing my way across borders in the past, and have previously travelled by motorcycle for over 3 years without any form of vehicle insurance, so that risk is par for the course.

Right now I'm seriously considering buying a new (or demo) Jialing JH600. The only question marks are availability of dealerships in Nanning, reliability and spares availability.

Garry from Oz.

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Garry from Oz - powered by Burgman

G'Day,

you can always buy a Harley-Davidson or BMW from the official importers (shops) in Shanghai + Beijing.

I have a modified HD 1200cc Sportster 1991 with a lot of spares for sale in Shanghai. the bike will be sold without rego.

Just hope you do not have an incident or accident with locals while riding a motorbike in China. FYI: China does not recognize overseas or international driving license.

In Shanghai they detain Foreigners riding motorcycles without proper documents for up to ten days. Shanghai Detention Center - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

never seen a Jialing JH600 available in shops in China.

Best Regards, Ride Safe, BUTCH

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Somewhere down the road in China since '89 ~ along the route I've learned the hard way that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everybody off is a piece of cake....TBR

Garry,

Finding parts for a JH600 in Russia, Mongolia or Europe may be a bit difficult. Franki is the man to talk to about that but I expect you've contacted him already.

I support your idea of riding with a dual sport or dirt type bike, if you don't you'll be in deep sheit somewhere down the road. If you keep it small, a new bike with regz shouldn't cost you more than 2k USD when all said and done. A JH600 would of course be about double that. There is also a side-car version ("B" variant?) of the JH600 which could be fun.

CC

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JH600 is marketed as direct sales from factory. There are only 5-6 dealers in China that sell this bike but mostly on order basis. I would suggest that you go to the factory direct or try with their closest dealer in Mianyang. With the bike registered, taxed and insured, you should be looking at about 36,000 RMB. Bike comes in red, blue and black colour. Factory offers courier service directly deliver parts to owners in need (in China only). Normal transit time is about 2-3 days.

I will be off to ride my JH600 Mar. 21 from Chengdu to Yunnan. So if you need any more help from me, you must do it in a timely manner.

Franki

Hi Carl/Franki/Butch, I've now pretty much decided that the Qingqi 200 is going to be the way to go. I've rejected the JH600 simply on the basis of cost and potential spares availability.

My plan is to buy the bike in Nnananing and do one of the following 3 options.

1. Ride up through China and in to Mongolia and sell in Mongolia.
2. Ride up through China and in to Mongolia and into Russi and sell in Russia.
3.Ride up through China and in to Mongolia and then back into China and sell in China (Harbin).

If I want to sell in China am I likely to have any problems. e.g. will people not want to buy the bike off me because I am a foreigner and may not have the right papers. If I sell the bike will the purchaser only be able to pay in yuan and will I be able to convert the yuan back into roubles or another currency when I leave China?

Any and all advice appreciated.

Thanks, Garry from Oz.

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Garry from Oz - powered by Burgman

Garry,

Ummm... not sure how to mention this but 2008 might not be the best year for you to ride in China. Some of us already living IN China and might not be able to get too far this summer.

But to answer your other questions anyway:

1) You could try to sell it in Mongolia but to who? Not exactly the richest country in the world and not a huge population either. Maybe you already know someone...

2) Selling in Russia might not be a bad idea, but I'm not sure what they would do with Chinese plates. Maybe someone else who's done this before can comment about this.

3) Yeah you could try to come back in but don't be surprised to find it's a one-way door.

Also:

- Do NOT buy or sell the bike unless you can get the proper papers. Especially this year.
-Yuan can be converted at the airport upon exit.

G'luck
CC

__________________
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Buy "The Return - Riding Western China" DVD - Now on Holiday sale!!!
http://www.motocyclops.com/buydvd/

The world's newest, most super-awesome Chinese Motorcycle and Travel Community!
http://www.mychinamoto.com/

Personal China travel info, photo and video site:
http://www.carlparker.com

Go in any bike shop in Nanning, buy the most standard Chinese bike (125/150cc) for 4000/5000 RMB, deal with the seller to get the paper done quickly while you are preparing it and the papers should come with one year insurance.

Once in Mongolia, give up the bike to a nomad, you will make a man happy and a new friend. You will have hard time anyway to sell it and it will be in poor shape after a such trip.

For your driver license there are some website that can help you to get one even if you are not resident (Chinese Driving License Service for Expats/Foreigner).

Enjoy China

Brice

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G'Day,

the Chinese Driving License is still interlinked to a Foreigners Resident Permit (>not a visa<) and they stopped the temporary ones in most cities.

Best Regards, Ride Safe! BUTCH

"Chinese Driving License Service"....done on a Xerox copy machine.... remember this is the fakers country....

Scam catches foreign drivers

Shanghai Daily Newspaper 2007-6-31

SOME foreign motorists in the city may be driving illegally and be unaware of it thanks to a bogus application ruse.

Overseas drivers living in Shanghai should only apply for a Chinese driving license with local police.

Shanghai traffic police made the clarification yesterday following reports that some agencies are charging expatriates thousands of yuan to have licenses issued out of town. These licenses are not legitimate.

Shanghai Morning Post broke the story on Thursday after an undercover investigation of the agencies.

With photocopies of the driver's passport, driving license from his or her own country and head-shot photos, clients are told to expect a Chinese driving license, issued by out of town authorities, after a week to 40 days, the newspaper said.

The foreign clients don't need to show up in person but only pass on the material to agents and wait for the licenses to arrive.

Agents charge between about 2,000 yuan (US$263) and 5,000 yuan for the service.

Shanghai Daily interviewed officers from the vehicle administration office under the General Team of Traffic Police who said licenses required by the agents are illegal.

Foreign drivers should swap them for a driving license issued by traffic authorities in their exact area of residence.

Shanghai traffic police are investigating the matter.

"Expatriates with a Shanghai-issued residents' permit, should only apply for a driving license issued by Shanghai traffic police," said a police officer with vehicle administration.

It costs 40 yuan to sit for a test on computer in Chinese road traffic rules. You can obtain a Chinese driving license the same day you pass the exam after paying 15 yuan for certification.

To apply for the test, the expatriate need to come to the police office on 1179 Qingchun Road, with head-shot photos and a hospital- issued physical exam report. Applicants also need to take the driving license issued in their own country.

Police said that international driving license holders are not allowed to drive in China before gaining a Chinese license. Questions about applying for a Chinese driving license should be directed to a hotline, 24023456.

Foreigners warned on out-of-town driving license

Shanghai Daily Newspaper 2007-6-30

SHANGHAI police have warned local foreigners not to buy driver's licenses from out-of-town driving schools.

For those who want a driver's license, the application procedure for a local-registered one takes only one day and a small sum of money, police said. Passing a written test is a must.

For those who hold no license, police suggest them to learn to drive and sit for tests in the city.

Foreigners in Shanghai have been targets of out-of-town driving schools since last August when the schools' business with city residents was ruined by local police.

They were offering a driver's license service that required no written or road test to lure foreigners, said an insider surnamed Zhang.

"The schools offer 'apartment service,' which suited many foreign people," Zhang said.

They usually find it too troublesome to go to a city to do registration.

A salesperson would knock at the door, collect some basic information, get the fingerprints and photos and take copies of the passport.

Then, all in need to do is to wait patiently for at least 40 days when the applicant will receive a driver's license that has been registered outside Shanghai.

"Though foreigners have to pay 1,000 yuan (US$131) more and wait longer, they find it convenient and efficient," Zhang said.

Local students usually pay between 2,600 yuan to 4,200 yuan to get such a license from out-of-town driving schools. It takes at least 5,000 yuan from local schools.

Training outside of the city allows students to get a license quickly. Local regulations require drivers to do 86 hours of in-car training, and they can't spend more than six hours a day on training.

Drivers must also wait at least 40 days between taking a written test and sitting the actual driving test. The whole procedure may take three months.

Other provinces don't have similar regulations, so students can get a license much quicker.

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Somewhere down the road in China since '89 ~ along the route I've learned the hard way that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everybody off is a piece of cake....TBR

Many thanks Brice. What you're suggesting is what I've now come round to realising is the best way to do things. Much as I'd like something bigger, I think you are right to suggest the reverse. At 4-5,000 yuan it also means the bike is pretty much disposable and I like your idea of donating to it to someone in greater need than myself.

I've spoken to Carl (thanks Carl ) off the web and his thoughts are pretty similar too.

Brice, what are your thoughts on buying new vs. used? Am I likely to be able to get plates issued in my name? Do I need to get plates issued in my name?, and what about an annual licence (registration) for the bike?

Re the issue of a licence, I''ve sent off a request to the site you identifed but I'm not hopeful as it seems that you can't apply for a licence until such time as you actually arrive in China, and then it takes 2 weeks to obtain.

Garry from Oz.

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Garry from Oz - powered by Burgman

Thanks Butch, I just saw your post. It sounds like a nice little scam those guys have going.

Garry from Oz.

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Garry from Oz - powered by Burgman

I agree with Butchman about the scam around the driver license...

So perhaps it is the same with this company. I'm not involved with them but they are based in my home town (Zhuhai) and around here some people have used their services. Check the forum at Information and Services for Zhuhai Expats. This is a couple, the guy is German and the girl Chinese.

On my side I passed my driver exam while in Shanghai 2 years ago, I was still on a 'tourist' visa at this time, took me half a day. Here a post to another thread: http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...3-2#post167147

I don't know your skills so used or new is up to you. You can find mechanics in every city/village but most of them know only the basic 125/150cc Chinese bike. Same for the parts.

If you buy a new one, you should ask the shop to do the paperwork for you. Since you have no address in China, perhaps they will put the bike to their name or whoever not a big deal because you will have an invoice that shows you are the owner. If you have some acquaintance in China, ask them to buy the bike for you in advance and do the paperwork.

When I was in search of a bike, Carl advised me to get a Chinese one.
I'm obtuse so I bought a Yamaha XJR 400, a fairly available bike here most of them being smuggled from Taiwan or HK. I can tell you that it is not easy to find even the most common part. My bike has no registration, no license and I'm always worried when I go out. Not really about being caught by the Police but if I'm caught in an accident I will be in trouble. So I think I will resell it and stick with a registered bike.

Last point is your available time to cross China, highways are forbidden for bikes as well as many cities center. So you will ride on national or secondary roads, most of them are in good shape but you can expect traffic and sometimes landslides or whatever hazard. Unless you ride 10 hours a day do not expect more than 250/300km a day.

Last year Mrs and I did a big loop from Zhuhai to South Qinghai, 8000km, one month with our Chinese 4WD, half of the roads were bad or dirt, we avoided highways. Very good trip specially Guizhou, west Sichuan and north Yunnan but we were tired at the end. Mostly because of the tension due to the other cars/trucks behaviors. In fact we like it so much that we'll do a new trip in the North this summer...

As Carl said, this year due to the Olympics is special. For the best or the worst I don't know but take it in account...

Cheers

Brice

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this thread miss some pics so here my brave and tough BJ2024, ZhanQi. We broke 4 times the rear suspensions. Local mechanics were able to welder them easily. Cost less than 50RMB...

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Thanks muchly Brice, all good info you have provided.

My mechanical skills are pretty good, so no problems in that regard. My concern is really what sort of shape a used bike will be in, the last thing I want is to inadvertently buy something due for the scrap heap, especiaaly when a Chinses bike can have all sorts of problems even when new.

Anyways, good to see your piccie - enjoy the ZhanQi (and the XJR ).

Garry from Oz.

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Garry from Oz - powered by Burgman