 |
|
8 Jul 2010
|
 |
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Wirral, England.
Posts: 5,673
|
|
|
Do you think there's a market for "Off the shelf" Overland prepared motorcycles
Would you buy an off the shelf overland bike ??? Not the big BMW's with a touratech book devoted to them. Smaller 125-800cc machines.
If you were starting out or just didnt have the time to do the work yourself..
Nearly new bikes with sensible modifications. Tank, bashplate, comfortable seat , luggage rack, 12v relay socket, larger stators, spare parts kit.. etc etc
I understand most of us enjoy and prefer to do our own mods, but the question is DO YOU THINK THERE IS A MARKET for it ?
__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.
|
8 Jul 2010
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: North Lakes - UK
Posts: 159
|
|
|
I think there is a decent market,
but,,,,,
one look at the Hard/soft, Big/Small, Travel equiped/travel light debates will quickly tell you that there is no such thing as a 'standard' overland bike.....
Even just looking at the basics, there is a plethora bikes to choose from let alone what one person considers basic, another thinks is excesive!
And then there are Motorcyclists, jeasus we can hardly agree on anything, let alone something standard!
|
8 Jul 2010
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 1,377
|
|
|
Good question, I would have to say that there is probably not a viable market for such a bike.
The market is small enough to start, and fractures quickly IMO: Someone wants a 250, someone an 800. Someone wants shaft, someone wants chain. Someone wants FI, someone wants carb. Someone wants japanese, someone wants german, someone wants a tall bike, someone wants a short bike. Sure, if the bike was absolutely perfect in every way people might overlook their various preferences and just buy whatever you pitched at them, but it doesn't seem very likely to me.
|
8 Jul 2010
|
|
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Wirral, England.
Posts: 5,673
|
|
I wasn't thinking of a bespoke bike. Not tailer made to personal whims.
Imagine you wanted to do a trip and didn't have the time, resources, desire to pick a bike and prep it.
There are plenty of people who may do just one bike trip in their lives and don't want to get involved with all the mechanics, scouring the internet for spares and upgrades.
If someone had such a business, they could have a 250, 400 and a 650 etc !!
There are always traveller bikes for sale but usually high mileage, beat up things with questionable histories.
I'm not sure I would buy an Overlanded bike unless I had to or really knew the owner. Actually, this reminds me of another thread..
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...overland-42624
__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.
|
8 Jul 2010
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Moscow
Posts: 1,117
|
|
|
Cheque book Adventuring?
I suspect the great majority of "big BMW's with a touratech book devoted to them" stuff is marketed and bought for appearance and image purposes and never actually sees overland mud and rock.
On that basis I am not sure there is an economically worthwhile market for the type Ted mentions. A smaller bike is not 'hardcore' enough for them!
People embarking on an 'Adventure journey' should prefer to understand their bike and would have done a fair amount of work themselves to familiarise themselves with it and practice key repair jobs while making mods for worthwhile motives rather than cosmetic ones.
Looking at some of the threads here I also suspect, for some, the planning and preparation is more important than the journey itself, which is then an anti-climax and disappointment.
|
8 Jul 2010
|
|
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Wirral, England.
Posts: 5,673
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony P
People embarking on an 'Adventure journey' should prefer to understand their bike and would have done a fair amount of work themselves to familiarise themselves with it and practice key repair jobs while making mods for worthwhile motives rather than cosmetic ones.
Looking at some of the threads here I also suspect, for some, the planning and preparation is more important than the journey itself, which is then an anti-climax and disappointment.
|
I agree.... people SHOULD , but does everyone ?? I think probably not.
I don't think there is a market to those who buy the £15,000 large tourers, as you say.. Many just want the look... But, to someone doing their first trip, completely new to bikes and overlanding and just wants to get on with it... There could be !
I don't think anyone is going to make a fortune out of this.. Maybe someone with some cash to spend on a few bikes and some freetime to prep them and take a risk with the resale.
I might have a go myself in the near future...
__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.
|
8 Jul 2010
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Oxford UK
Posts: 2,116
|
|
|
Sounds like you're pondering something that's exactly the opposite of Touratech's business model. They supply expensive aftermarket parts intended to improve a bikes ability to cope with the rigors of touring or overlanding but only a small percentage of them are actually used as intended. As such (I'd guess) most purchasers are happy with the way the bits perform as they never get tested to the limit.
You're proposing putting together bikes that actually will get to be pushed to their limits and you're going to have to source any add on bits as cheaply as possible to keep the prep costs within bounds. That way lies loads of complaints.
It's one thing if your diy rack / panniers snaps in the middle of Mongolia, taking the subframe with it, that's down to your faulty welding and maybe you should finish the evening classes next time, but if it came from TedCo Overlanding Prep Ltd you're going to have to make sure it's strong enough to cope with being winched out of a river in the Congo.
|
8 Jul 2010
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 1,377
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Touring Ted*
Maybe someone with some cash to spend on a few bikes and some freetime to prep them and take a risk with the resale.
|
I don't think I understood your original question...I thought you meant for a manufacturer. If you mean that you would buy existing bikes and make them "overland ready", I think there might be some market, but margins would probably be rather thin. That said, if you have machining skills and could make your own bash plates, pannier racks, etc., instead of buying them from third parties, maybe it could work...
|
8 Jul 2010
|
|
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Wirral, England.
Posts: 5,673
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by backofbeyond
Sounds like you're pondering something that's exactly the opposite of Touratech's business model. They supply expensive aftermarket parts intended to improve a bikes ability to cope with the rigors of touring or overlanding but only a small percentage of them are actually used as intended. As such (I'd guess) most purchasers are happy with the way the bits perform as they never get tested to the limit.
You're proposing putting together bikes that actually will get to be pushed to their limits and you're going to have to source any add on bits as cheaply as possible to keep the prep costs within bounds. That way lies loads of complaints.
It's one thing if your diy rack / panniers snaps in the middle of Mongolia, taking the subframe with it, that's down to your faulty welding and maybe you should finish the evening classes next time, but if it came from TedCo Overlanding Prep Ltd you're going to have to make sure it's strong enough to cope with being winched out of a river in the Congo.
|
Agreed !! Although I think home welding is a lot stronger than some of the crap "overland" stuff you see hawked by some companies. Iv seen a lot of the TT stuff close up and used it. It's not always well made. My Metal mules cost more than my current bike and they bent like a cheap chinese deckchair.
Im just playing with the idea at the moment. Maybe the idea would be to actually source everything and put the whole thing together in a "Ready to go" package than actually weld and fettle every bike.
I dunno... I think I might buy a low mileage bike and just prep it as cheaply as possible and see if I at least break even with it on a sale.. If not, i'll just ride it myself 
__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.
|
8 Jul 2010
|
|
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Gloucestershire
Posts: 376
|
|
|
Have you considered hiring them instead? My bike was bought from here as an ex-overlander, fully prepped and having been ridden to Cape town before I bought it - so there are some who will buy a bike ready to roll!
Perhaps there is a market in producing a bike you think will fit the bill and hiring it for a trip. I know some of the bigger guided firms provide bikes for hire, so I suspect there is a market for it. However, if you were to provide a ready prepped bike ready to roll in the States, or Argentina for example then perhaps you would have a real market. "Pitch up with your gear and ride" would appeal to those who can't be bothered with shipping etc.
Certainly works for places like NZ...
|
8 Jul 2010
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: West Yorkshire UK
Posts: 1,785
|
|
TT, Tesch, more recently Metal Mule, they all start along the lines Ted is thinking about. Then, either they get the customer from **** who expects "waterproof" to mean "can be used as a flotation device in a force ten" or the accountants start suggesting rationalised production. It then suddenly occurs to the people running the company that they get a lot more business and a lot less hassle from play riders. The play riders only complaint is usually price and having to wait for the item to be made. Suddenly, top class welding gives way to laser etched logos  .
I think the UK supports maybe half a dozen 4x4 safari preparation companys? I think the bike market is smaller still.
Personally, I'd be looking for a niche. GSerise Urals or Triumph Scramblers for the guys who don't want an R1200GS or a thirty year old R80. Re-work AT's or XT's to factory fresh condition. Design a way to fit a kick start to modern bikes or a bibbe mousse that works on the motorway. I think there are chances for the right people with the right skills, but not for guys who want their hobby to be their work and don't have anything else to offer.
Andy
|
8 Jul 2010
|
 |
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Gent, Belgium
Posts: 523
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Touring Ted*
Would you buy an off the shelf overland bike ??? Not the big BMW's with a touratech book devoted to them. Smaller 125-800cc machines.
If you were starting out or just didnt have the time to do the work yourself..
Nearly new bikes with sensible modifications. Tank, bashplate, comfortable seat , luggage rack, 12v relay socket, larger stators, spare parts kit.. etc etc
I understand most of us enjoy and prefer to do our own mods, but the question is DO YOU THINK THERE IS A MARKET for it ?
|
Yes! That's exactly what I did when I bought the KTM LC4 400 Mil.
Aaah... No! I fitted 20mm bar raisers...
|
8 Jul 2010
|
 |
Gold Member
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Back in Blighty
Posts: 171
|
|
Considering how much interest the ex military KTMs get I would have to say that yes there would be a market,how big a market is questionable but a lot of people would like a ready to go overlander/offroader.
__________________
Andy L
From the midnight sun to the silk & rhubarb roads, 2014 
I am not an adventure rider, just a biker that has adventures.
|
8 Jul 2010
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: BC, sometimes
Posts: 578
|
|
|
I wouldn't sink too much money into this Ted.
Most serious over-landers prefer to do the work themselves and the amount of time a decent prep would take compared to what people will pay means you would end up paying your self about 30 pence per hour to do a decent job...
It only really amounts to bolting a few bits on and perhaps some simple wiring - whose gonna pay big bucks for that?
|
8 Jul 2010
|
 |
Moderated Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: California
Posts: 501
|
|
I posted my idea on your other thread Ted. Good idea. Great minds think alike! 
Check out my comments about this: (my agent will be contacting you for my 5% fee!) See post 21.
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...4-2#post296272
I don't think pre made bikes would work. And would require a huge capital up front for you with no buy guarantee .... unless you got pre-orders.
But you could work with riders to help them find a suitable bike, then build to suit based on budget, requirements. You can make a bit on everything they order for the bike plus charge for custom work and set up. See my other post, details this. Good luck ... I think you are on the right track!
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 1 guests)
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
Next HU Events
ALL Dates subject to change.
2025 Confirmed Events:
- Virginia: April 24-27 2025
- Queensland is back! May 2-4 2025
- Germany Summer: May 29-June 1 2025
- CanWest: July 10-13 2025
- Switzerland: Date TBC
- Ecuador: Date TBC
- Romania: Date TBC
- Austria: Sept. 11-14
- California: September 18-21
- France: September 19-21 2025
- Germany Autumn: Oct 30-Nov 2 2025
Add yourself to the Updates List for each event!
Questions about an event? Ask here
See all event details
Check the RAW segments; Grant, your HU host is on every month!
Episodes below to listen to while you, err, pretend to do something or other...
2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.
"Ultimate global guide for red-blooded bikers planning overseas exploration. Covers choice & preparation of best bike, shipping overseas, baggage design, riding techniques, travel health, visas, documentation, safety and useful addresses." Recommended. (Grant)
Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance™ combines into a single integrated program the best evacuation and rescue with the premier travel insurance coverages designed for adventurers.
Led by special operations veterans, Stanford Medicine affiliated physicians, paramedics and other travel experts, Ripcord is perfect for adventure seekers, climbers, skiers, sports enthusiasts, hunters, international travelers, humanitarian efforts, expeditions and more.
Ripcord travel protection is now available for ALL nationalities, and travel is covered on motorcycles of all sizes!
What others say about HU...
"This site is the BIBLE for international bike travelers." Greg, Australia
"Thank you! The web site, The travels, The insight, The inspiration, Everything, just thanks." Colin, UK
"My friend and I are planning a trip from Singapore to England... We found (the HU) site invaluable as an aid to planning and have based a lot of our purchases (bikes, riding gear, etc.) on what we have learned from this site." Phil, Australia
"I for one always had an adventurous spirit, but you and Susan lit the fire for my trip and I'll be forever grateful for what you two do to inspire others to just do it." Brent, USA
"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the (video) series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring!" Jennifer, Canada
"Your worldwide organisation and events are the Go To places to for all serious touring and aspiring touring bikers." Trevor, South Africa
"This is the answer to all my questions." Haydn, Australia
"Keep going the excellent work you are doing for Horizons Unlimited - I love it!" Thomas, Germany
Lots more comments here!
Diaries of a compulsive traveller
by Graham Field
Book, eBook, Audiobook
"A compelling, honest, inspiring and entertaining writing style with a built-in feel-good factor" Get them NOW from the authors' website and Amazon.com, Amazon.ca, Amazon.co.uk.
Back Road Map Books and Backroad GPS Maps for all of Canada - a must have!
New to Horizons Unlimited?
New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!
Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80G/S.
Read more about Grant & Susan's story
Membership - help keep us going!
Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events all over the world with the help of volunteers; we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.
You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, or ask questions on the HUBB. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.
|
|
|
helps answer the question - Why Go? Inspirational stories by veteran travellers Greg Frazier (5 times RTW), Peter and Kay Forwood (193 countries), Tiffany Coates (Mongolia Mayhem) and Rene Cormier (University of Gravel Roads).
Get Ready! covers planning, paperwork, medical and many other topics! "Inspirational and Awesome!" See the trailer here!
What stuff do I need - riding gear, clothing, camping gear, first aid kit, tires, maps and GPS? What don't I need? How do I pack it all in? Lots of opinions from over 150 travellers!
break down language barriers, overcome culture shock, ship the bike and deal with breakdowns and emergencies."Just makes me want to pack up and go!" See the trailer here!
Grant demystifies the black art of Tire Changing and Repair to help you STAY on the road! "Very informative and practical." See the trailer here!
Ladies on the Loose! For the first time ever, a motorcycle travel DVD made for women, by women! These intrepid women share their tips to help you plan your own motorcycle adventure. They also answer the women-only questions, and entertain you with amazing tales from the road! Presented by Lois Pryce, veteran solo traveller through South America and Africa and author of 'Lois on the Loose', and 'Red Tape and White Knuckles.'
Cotton or synth sweat-wicking t-shirts with the cool Horizons Unlimited graphic on the front and a snappy slogan (changing every year) on the back.
Show your route on your panniers. Great conversation starter when you meet people on the road!
Motorcycle and travel books to inspire and inform you!
The definitive guide to planning your motorcycle adventure! This insanely ambitious 2-year project has produced an informative and entertaining 5-part, 18 hour video series. "The ultimate round the world rider's how-to!" MCN UK.
Linear Mode
