Hi there,

Having sorted out our route and itinerary, and with the vehicle getting prepped, the next (logical) stage seemed to be getting the visas done ASAP. However, I have a few questions!

The Visas required are: Russia ( 6 month multi entry business ), Kazakhstan ( double entry ), Mongolia, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Tajikstan, Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Turkey.

(1) As it is such an essential part of the trip, the only part of which we want to have the most certainty and control over, is it worth getting a visa agency involved, or is it feasible ourselves?

(2) Both myself and the friend I am travelling with will be 18 and 19 respectively when we leave ( 5th July 2009), is this an issue and is there a strong case to suggest we will not get the visas? Particularly the Russian one which we are getting from Main..!

(3) How long before the intended date of departure should we apply. Although our itinerary is satisfactory, there may well be some changes which change country entry/exit dates and we don't want to mess with those too much....

(4) Which brings me onto the next question.... is it worth getting a multiple entry for countries other than Russia to allow for more flexibility? Cost is the overriding issue but I'd rather the money goes than the trip!

(5) Finally, regarding the visas themselves, particularly for kazakhstan and the rest of the stans for which do we apply. The tourist visas cover the intended duration of our stay in each country, but do these allow for entry and transit via car at the border?

It may seem like a barrage of questions, but again we would vastly appreciate any input!

Hi there,

Just in the process of doing this myself.

First important thing - I don't think you can pass from Armenia to Turkey or vice versa. You have to go round through Georgia. I could be wrong, but check it out before you plan that route. No visa required for Georgia.

Second important thing - For all these visas count on taking most of 3 months to get them all. With a few exceptions you can only apply 3 months before your intended entry date. Kyrgystan you can apply 6 months prior, Russia 45 days prior.

To answer your other questions:

1) We've chosen to use visa agencies because we're prepared to pay a little extra to have the assistance of someone who does it all the time. There's a lot to deal with and it can be confusing. But of course it means paying more. I can highly recommend Travcour as a visa agency and Stantours for the LOIs you will need for the central Asian countries. Find them both online.

2) As far as I know your age won't matter if you're 18+. But what do I know! Might be different if you're not 18 at the time of application?

3) As early as possible. Especially if you use an agency, best to get talking to them ASAP and see what's involved. There is usually a limit on how far in advance you can apply, but you have to allow for the time it takes to process them all. We're starting a full 3 months ahead of departure and only expecting to get our passports back with the final visa a matter of weeks before departure. You should aim to be ready to start applying at the beginning of April for a July 5th start.

4) Multiple entry visas can be much more expensive or not available at all. My advice would be to check Travcour's pages where they specify the types of visa available and the cost. The cost for our visas and LOIs for our route through Georgia, Azerbaijan, the stans, Russia and Mongolia have added up to over £1k each.

5) Tourist visas for all those countries will allow transit by car as long as you have all the necessary paperwork, insurance etc. Be aware that a Turkmenistan tourist visa requires an escorted tour eg vis Stantours which can be pricey. There seems to be some uncertainty about the availability of a transit visa (which allows 5 days). Some people have got them, we've been advised it's not a certainty and so have elected for the more expensive tourist visa.


Search the HUBB for "Russia Visa", "Turkmenistan Visa", etc etc. Be aware the situation changes often. My advice would be to at least talk to an agency about your route schedule and get their advice about whether it's feasible. Amanda at Travcour and David at Stantours are both excellent. There are others.

Cheers,
Al

PS don't need a visa for Turkey either, if you're British.

And more importantly still - you can't get from Azerbaijan to Armenia, if that's what you were planning.....

Wow, thank you very much for such a comprehensive reply! Glad to see I'm not the only one....

I have emailed Amanda at Travcour and she has (unsuprisingly) replied saying there is little that can be done until 7 weeks before intended DOD, but good to have the lines of communication open all the same. £900 certainly seems steep!

In terms of David at Stantours, should I approach simply requesting LOI's for the countries I presume are necessary, or wait for clearer confirmation from travcour?

Re. Armenia/Turkey, I was reading the route from an older version of our itinerary, so yes, now we are travelling Azerbaijan-Georgia-Turkey, buying the Georgian visa on the border.

In terms of Turkmenistan, a tourist visa appears more sensible giving the most flexibility so will be going for that pending advice from Travcour.

Cheers,
Tom

It would be worth contacting David sooner as he is probably quite busy. He has a standard answer detailing the cost and information requirements for each LOI, and can give you an example itinerary for the TM tour. Always worth getting early warning of the information you will need to supply and the likely cost. The LOI situation is pretty clear - required for Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Russia. The rest, no.

We went for the TM tourist visa option because it removes a little uncertainty over getting a transit visa, and although it costs more it does give us a few nights in hotels instead of the tent, a local to show us the ropes and give us a more gentle introduction to the stans, and the chance to offload our luggage into the guide's car (although as a cage dweller that won't be an issue for you!).

David also knows the ropes and has given us some useful advice regarding our route and how much time we should allow for various sections. Very helpful.

If you're interested this is our tour:-

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Trip day Date Weekday Programme Accommodation
Day 0 16/06 Tue pm ferry to Turkmenbashi
Day 1 17/06 Wed am arrival Turkmenbashi, (guide will wait at 9 am), port pick up / customs assistance, time-permitting - explore Turkmenbashi and surroundings, overnight low-cost Hotel tba
Day 2 18/06 Thu Full Day drive to Ashgabat, en route time-permitting visits Paraw Bibi shrine, Murche Ruins, Geok Depe, overnight Hotel Asia
Day 3 19/06 Fri Ashgabat self, overnight Hotel Asia
Day 4 20/06 Sat noon drive Ashgabat - Darvaza Oasis, en route visit Erbent, overnight at Chaykhana Tea House or tents, night visit burning Gas Crate Chaykhana or tents
Day 5 21/06 Sun Continue to Kunya Urgench, visit site, border crossing to Khodzheylil / Nukus b/f 18:00 pm

price for 2 pax USD 670 per person subject to guide / driver availability

INCLUDING
1 Accommodation in twin-room with private facilities where available as indicated or similar
2 Meals breakfasts only, Dinner in rural areas (B, L, D)
3 overland transportation by private car
4 sightseeing as specified in the itinerary with guide
5 entrance fees Kunyaurgench
6 Visa support to Turkmenistan, Travel Voucher, OVIR Police registration, prices subject to change
7 Escort English speaking guide for arrival, departure and all days except days in Ashgabat
EXCLUDING
1 Visa cost,
2 Government Arrival Tax USD 12 pp.
3 Personal spending money
4 Travel insurance
5 Tips for driver and local guide
6 Video & photo camera charges during sightseeing
8 Transport Department charges (USD 150..250 per vehicle), bridge tolls, parking fees, vehicle maintenance, route reconnaissance

NOTE
1 We have included a low cost hotel in the Berzengi area (10 min from city centre) - preliminarily the Asia hotel which is 3 Stars at a cost base of USD 45 per night.
2 In order to proceed we will need a prepayment of USD 300.
3 We can proceed with the visa support immediately but not earlier than 3 months prior to arrival, approval takes 3 weeks. Balance is payable cash upon arrival. With the approved LOI you can get the visa at most TM Embassies, Ashgabat airport, the TM / UZ border, Turkmebashi port or Gaudan / Badjgiran border.
4 We cannot guarantee approval of your visa support by the Turkmen authorities. In case of a denied visa support you prepayment is refundable in full, but we will charge a service fee of USD 25 per person + bank charges.
5 You should bring a sleeping bag for Darvaza to be more comfortable.

Cancellation:
>1 Month 10%
<1 Month 30%
<10 Days 50%

Minimum USD 100 per person


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And here is some other very useful info from David:


As far as the rule of thumb is concerned - unfortunately things in Central
Asia (and Persia!) remain dubious and unclear. Except Iran the Carnet is
generally NOT requested, and considered a nuisance (more paper).

As per our experience the highlights apart from a few extraordinary eco- and
bridge taxes are:

- Iran will issue an alternative transit document at the border for
USD 150-200. (this info is not confirmed by any motorclubs nor Embassy, BUT
many of our clients)

- Turkmenistan has the highest transit charges (USD 75-250 FOR
REGULAR VEHICLES AND MORE FOR TRUCKS) which are impossible to circumvent
unless travellers hold diplomatic passports. This also concernes the
obligatory 3rd party liabaility insurance (USD 50 for 14 days max)

NOTE THAT THERE HAVE BEEN SERIOUS DELAYS RECENTLY WITH THE TURKMENBASHI -
BAKU FERRY, FAR BEYOND WHAT WE USUALLY ANTICIPATE. ALTHOUGH THERE ARE
PROCEDURES ON HOW TO EXTEND TRANSIT AND TOURIST VISA, WE ABSOLUTELY
RECOMMEND TO ANTICIPATE DELAYS OF UP TO 5 DAYS IN TERMS OF PAPERWORK!

PEOPLE CONTINUE TO BE SURPRISED ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE DARVAZA -
KUNYAURGENCH ROUTE, NOTE THAT WITH ANNUAL TEMPERATURE DIFFERENCES OF UP TO
80?, EVEN WITH PERMANENT RECONSTRUCTION THIS ROUTE WILL NOT BECOME A HIGHWAY
ANYTIME SOON AND AVERAGE TRAVEL TIME IS 5..8 H FOR 250 KM

- Uzbekistan randomly requests a guarantee for re-export to be issued
at the border (usually a formless letter from a travel agency or company
taking responsibility), BUT THERE HAVE BEEN NO COMPLAINTS REGARDING THE
ISSUE IN THE PAST 3 YEARS.

- Kazakhstan NO LONGER INSISTS FOR the vehicles to be stated in the
invitations and visa.

THERE HAVE BEEN COMPLAINTS BY A FEW CLIENTS WHO DID NOT REALISE THAT BOTH
THE ARALSK - AQTOBE AS WELL AS THE KUNGRAD - BENEU TRACK TO THE CASPIAN ARE
NOT REALLY ROADS AND MAY REQUIRE OFF-ROAD CAPABILITIES. SIMILAR COMPLAINTS
ARE RECEIVED FROM CAMPING WAGON OWNERS WHO ARE SURPRISED THAT THEY CAN'T
TRAVEL THE PAMIR HIGHWAY AND W/KYRGYZSTAN WITH THEIR 20 CM CLEARANCE.

- Tadjikistan TRANSIT TRAVEL REMAINS RELATIVELY STRAIGHTFORWARD, BUT
THERE IS AN OFFICIAL RULE THAT REQUIRES ALL VEHICLE OWNERS STAYING LONGER
THAN 15 DAYS TO REGISTER AND PAY RESPECTIVE FEES THAT ARE AS HIGH AS 50 USD
PER DAY PER VEHICLE. ALL MOTORISED CLIENTS SHOULD AVOID THE PENJIKENT BORDER
WHICH IS NOTORIOUS, AND SOME CLIENTS HAVE BEEN SCAMMED AS PER EXIPRED
LEGISLATION THERE.

NOTE THAT THE A372 HIGHWAY BETWEEN DUSHANBE AND OSH (SHORTCUTTING THE M41 /
PAMIR HIGHWAY) REMAINS OFFICIALLY CLOSED FOR 3RD COUNTRY PASSPORTS.

THE QOLMA BORDER TO CHINA REMAINS CLOSED FOR 3RD COUNTRY CITIZEN.

- also Azerbaijan, HAS UNFORTUNATELY RE-ENFORCED RE-EXPORT
ISSUES WHICH HAVE
LINGERED A WHILE, REQUESTING A FULL VALUE DEPOSIT AT THE BORDER FOR ANYTHING
BUT A 3-DAY TRANSIT STAY. USUALLY THE LATTER SOLVES THE PROBLEM, AND ALSO
TRAVELLERS DEPARTING FROM BAKU BY BOAT, USUALLY MANAGE TO PARK THE VEHICLE
WITHIN THE CUSTOMS CUSTODY, BEFORE THE TRANSIT PERIOD EXPIRES. BORDER
ASSISTANCE THROUGH TRAVEL AGENTS MAY HELP TO RESOLVE THE ISSUE.

- DESPITE EFFORTS BY THE GOVERNMENT, BECAUSE OF THE POVERTY,
KYRGYZSTAN
REMAINS A NUISANCE AS FAR AS POLICE SCAMS ARE CONCERNED, ALTHOUGH NON-CIS
VEHICLES AND WOMAN DRIVERS ARE USUALLY EXEMPT.

- THERE WERE NO NEGATIVE REPORTS RE Armenia and Georgia, BUT
A FEW
TRAVELLERS STILL FIND THEMSELVES STUCK AT THE DEADEND
ARMENIA/TURKEY/AZERBAIJAN BORDER AS WELL AS THE GEORGIA/ABKHAZIA BORDERS,
ALL OF WHICH ARE CLOSED FOR OBVIOUS REASONS, SO ARE ALL OTHER LAND BORDERS
OF THE CAUCASUS COUNTRIES WITH RUSSIA! THE ONLY WAY AROUND ARE NORMALLY THE
FERRIES.

Except for TM and Iran, where the alternative documents issued on the spot
assure a no problems with customs, general guideline for CUSTOMS for all CA
countries is to INSIST on a declaration to be issued in duplicate UPON
entry, where it is clearly stated that the vehicle is in transit. The
declaration should be stamped and signed, and the duplicate kept until exit.

All of these rules are bound to change parallel to the legislation of each
individual country. Travellers should be reminded that in most cases the
legislation is in their favour and if needed, justice can be pushed through
the responsible Embassy. BUT IN CASE OF DOUBT MOTORISTS SHOUDL NOT EXPECT
THE EMBASSIES TO HAVE THE MOST UP-TO-DATE INFO AND BEING WILLING TO ASSIST
IN ANY EVENT.

For all countries, international driving license AND registration papers are
a must (although not officially required) and serve as a document back-up in
case of any problems. This is particularly important for vehicles WITHOUT
paper-registration (eg American or Australian motorbikes).

No drink and drive is also a rule, even for morning after, a lot of scams
exist around the tests, not to mention the health risk.

TAKING HITCHHIKERS (WHO USUALLY PAY IN CENTRAL ASIA) MAY GIEV A GREAT
OPPORTUNITY TO ENTER LOCAL HOMES AND ENJOY HOSPITALITY, BUT BE CAREFUL WHEN
LARGE QUANTITIES OF ALCOHOL ARE ENVOLVED AT ANY STAGE.

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Hope this is of use to someone!

Al

...and you can enter Georgia for up to 90 days without a visa with a UK passport.

Hi
We would be grateful for some clarification on the Russian Visa application form. We are trying to arrange the visa’s ourselves to maximise our “on the road”. budget.

For a 6 month multi entry visa (business).

10) "Date of Entry". I presume if you arrived later than this date it would not cause any issues.

13) Russian organisation to be visited.
Do you get this information from the LOI. Or do we state “tourist” even on a business visa.

14) Route of journey. Do we state our true intentions or just state Moscow & Volgograd & the location of the organisation in point 13.

20) Present occupation. Does this cause any issues if it bears no resemblance to point 13.

Thanks in advance.
Simon

Don't take this as gospel but as far as I have been able to find out so far....

10) Correct.

13) Has to match the LOI. Don't put tourist.

14) MUST include the location of the inviting organisation, the rest doesn't really matter but advisable to include biggest city near points of entry and exit.

20) I don't know. I believe you will need a letter from your "employer" stating that you will be travelling on business purposes and expenses will be met by your employer, but I'm very unsure about this.


But don't take my word for it! Hopefully someone who has actually got a visa will be along soon to reassure both of us....

I used Stantours (David Berghoff) for visas and permits for Turkmenistan and Tajikistan, and totally recommend him. He replied very promptly to all emails, says what he means and means what he says - I was able to trust him (which for me is key) AND he fully delivered the goods at what was a reasonable and worthwhile cost.

+1 on Stan Tours...David is honest, cheap and reliable...the only thing in Central Asia or Russia that is.

__________________
edde
93 BMW K75s
www.motoedde.com

Thanks to you all for the information on Visa’s & Stantours. Hopefully I will catch some of you on the road, if so I'll “get the s in”.
Cheers
Simon