TT600R poor/difficult/impossible starting

[leigh]

I stripped and rebuilt my carbs on the 2001 TTR, I chucked the filter too, starts much better (was clogged with mystery goo).
Just take your time, don't lose any bits and set float height, carb balance etc according to spec.

[aukeboss]

removing the little malicious filter will not help in yr partcular case, see my earlier post. In general however, it is a good idea. When it is clogged up you will notice that the bike runs fine at no or low load, but at higher speeds it does not let through sufficient fuel, so engine will slow, pick up again etc. It's not a roadside repair to clean it, that's why people remove it and install the inline filter.
To check the state of the filter, have a 1 liter bottle, connect to the drain hose of the carb. Open fuel tap, open drain plug. If the 1 liter fills up from the tank within 4 minutes (approximately!!) your fuel feed system is OK.

Check for good earth connection at the earth (black wire close to the coil. The coil body, the wire should be well connected to the frame.

And wait for your cable.

Auke

[Walkabout]

Thanks for the information guys.

Leigh, how old was your TTR/how many km had it done when you cleaned the carbs?
Also, are there any essential special tools needed to set the float height and for anything else while putting it back together and setting it up? I have definitely learnt over the years that it is often easier to take something apart than to put it back together!

I am certainly waiting for the decomp cable to arrive and get that set up correctly; could be that is the only problem (what happened to my faith in fuel problems)!!? Firm belief in changing/adjusting/altering/fiddling with one thing at a time and checking for the effect before moving on is the theme for today.

In the meantime, the seat and tank are off again and all of the obvious electrical connnections look OK. I have un-bolted the small black earth cable near the coil on the right side of the frame and all of that connection is bright shiney metal on the wire connector and the bolt. In fact. all of the connectors look clean and sound (+ the air filter looks clean enough for an oily thing).

As a thought, has anyone tried taking the float bowl off the primary carb without actually removing the carbs from the bike - just to check the contents for muck?

Last point for today and my current problem staring at me: how to get the spark plug out? Yes, I don't have a plug spanner to get in there! Just what kind of one is it? - about 100mm to clear the head but no more than 140 mm long, at maximum, to fit under the bike frame and it has to get into the tight all round clearance (you can tell that no Yamaha original tools came with this bike).

Cheers again all you avid readers,

Dave

[leigh]

To remove the carb I had to semi remove the subframe ( i didn't remove the two lower bolts) to allow clearance. Even then it wasn't easy, just remember to have a decent work surface to strip the carb on, perhaps the dining room table with a polythene sheet on it, if she will let you!
Get a can of carb cleaner to clean it and blast dirt out of channels etc. use tools that fit i.e. correct sized screwdriver to avoid damage to fasteners. Replace anything that looks knackered, mine was all OK apart from aforementioned filter and the fact that the carb slide height sync was out.
Use a cheap vernier or even a steel rule to set float height etc. Use appropriate size drill as a gauge to set slide height etc. Put it all back together carefully and take the opportunity to clean anything that will be covered when you put it back.
Mine started and ran much better afterwards (2001 model that had 30000 odd km on it at the time).
Treat it like a lady and don't beat it when you lose your patience ( or tell her you are just going down the pub for one pint).

[Walkabout]

Still waiting for the postman to do his stuff for those following this sorry tale!
Next, Easter may get in the way?!

Dave

[Walkabout]

Well, don't knock the postman too soon!
The decompression cable arrived today and is fitted and the bike kicks over really easy now, probably easier than when I got it.
That was a good service from MoTo-WARD Ltd Website (and I don't know them or have any relationship with them other than as a customer).
The cable delivers a clearance of about 0.5 - 1mm for the valve (hard to judge with the fleshy end of your finger on the decomp lever - is there any way of being more accurate?)


So far so good; unfortunately it doesn't start and does not even show any interest in starting! At least it used to cough and splutter about a week ago & eventually fire. The next thing will be the spark plug check but that needs the spanner that is still in the post (from another supplier). If that is "good to go" then I guess the dreaded carb cleaning will be the next thing. I have measured the fuel supply pipe which has around 90 mm of pipe within which to fit an inline filter; will check if that is enough in the days to come.

As someone commented earlier, it does make me re-think what was it that started this problem - increasing difficulty in kicking the bike over comes to mind, but so what ......... that is fixed now. At the same time, it got harder to start while cold = a lean mixture????
While the tank has been off recently, I blew compressed air through the fuel supply pipe into the float bowl (seemed like a good idea at the time!).

So, a few days off for Easter (weather is too good to be fixing bikes) and then back to it.

Still having fun!!
Cheers,
Dave

[Walkabout]

Well, I finally got a spanner (socket actually) that will get to the spark plug and remove it while fitting under the bike frame - a saga in itself.

So, there is no spark - no spark at all, as in no spark whatsoever (I have read the posts about poor sparks may not be seen in daylight etc but this is a case of "no spark" - I will kick it over in the hours of darkness to check but in my fairly dark garage this morning there is no spark). The green ignition light still shows OK when kicked over and any of the lights will show as well, if they are switched on while kicking over.
The spark plug is in correct adjustment and generally black at the working end - not surprising with the amount of kickstart use recently (!) but it is not excessively wet.

Would be glad to hear what the collective wisdom is for this set of symptoms; as per the original post, poor starting, followed by increasingly difficult starting and now no starting.
I have my own ideas/opinion but glad to hear from those who have been down this road ahead of me.


The good news is that the compression seems good and it stinks of petrol while kicking so that is coming through. The decompression cable is doing a good job and it is as easy to kick over with the plug in as it is to kick over with the spark plug removed.

Cheers,
Dave

[Walkabout]

Gents (and Ladies),
It's running now!!!

& it starts from both cold and hot in accordance with the usual procedures.

I went back to checking for good earth connections, but this time around I unbolted the coil from the frame and it was a bit mucky behind there with a kind of patina on the places where the coil touches the frame (and there are multiple points of contact between the two).
So, every point where the two of them are touching was cleaned down to bare metal including the two bolts holding the coil (threads, contact surfaces, everything).
Then with the coil back in place I got a spark!!

So, cleaned up the spark plug, put it back, on with the tank and, after a few kicks, there was a big kickback/backfire and it fired up on the next kick.
Job done!!

Thanks for all of the advice from everyone,

Cheers,

Dave

ps I can now leave the wife's bike alone - done over 1000 miles on that while mine has been off the road.

[ade.d]

i had to do the exact same thing,seams to collect a lot of crap behind the coil.ive gone from 20 kicks to 1-2 hot or cold.ive now recoverd from the nerveous breakdown,although my right leg seams larger than the other one.

[Walkabout]

Ade,
It's good when it all works out don't you think?!

Seriously, I hope this thread was of some use to you - the replies that I got certainly helped me and I reckon anyone who has similar problems in the future of a similar nature.

I would recommend that you check your spark plug lead - I pulled mine on and off so many times that I think it loosened up in one or both of the two screwed joints between the coil and the spark plug cap; the short lead is threaded at each end.
That problem came about from:-

If you liked this "story" I hope you don't need the marathon thread that I had a hand in developing, concerning the subject of leaking gaskets - just after I got this starting problem sorted out, the next issue lept up to try to scupper my riding! It's in this forum if you ever have a leaking top end gasket.

Cheers,

Dave

ps The only other elec thing I have done is to fit a new, Irridium, spark plug - supposed to be easier to start with lower voltage required; certainly seems better, but, there again, I have changed so many things..........

[ade.d]

also make sure your decomp cable is set right(1mm play)at lever i beleive.then work the starting lever slowly until you here the decomp click and you should feel some resistance in the starting stroke.hold the clutch in and now kick.dont waste energy kicking at any point.my ttr now starts better than some elecys ive had ,lol.

so its plug,coil,carb,decomp and starting lever technique.good luck.

[Walkabout]

Ade,
More like 0.5 mm play at the lever, when cold, was the advice that I got on another thread - the real test is does it do it's job and make the starting easy!!

For the starting, it is a case of feeling for TDC on the compression of the engine, by turning over slowly (no point in exerting yourself), and then going for the "long" positive kick just after that - not strength but technique, carrying the movement right through as far as possible. Lots of others have written up this technique on earlier threads.

Mine is starting fine; luck does not come into it!!!!!!!!!! (hopefully)

Dave