Lada 4x4 (Niva) for overland
 

Hello,

in a few years we plan to travel from Europe through Africa to Caucasus and Kazahstan. We have limited budget we can spend on the car (c.a. 10-12.000 EUR). You can buy a brand new Lada 4x4 from this money here in Hungary. So our initial idea is to buy one and make the journey with it. Do you recommend this? Does somebody has already experience with the Niva? Thanks!


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No, you will have no support in Africa for Lada. Better to get a secondhand, low tech Toyota, Land Rover or even Nissan.

I take it you mean one of the new Chevrolet co-produced Nivas?

They are not really comparable to the original. I have briefly driven both and the new Niva feels much less rugged.

For your budget you could easily pick up a nearly new Rav4 or Honda CRV which are similar to the new Niva. But with a bit of effort and preparation you could easily get a proper 4x4 with that money, something like a Toyota Prado (Landcruier 90 / Colorado), a Land Cruiser 80 or a Land Rover if you are a competent mechanic.

Thank you for all your replies. Actually I was thinking about the “classic” Niva, which called 4x4 today: https://www.lada.ru/en/cars/4x4/3dv/about.html.
But I assume your advises still stand.  I will check the RAV4. I have been informed that Land Rovers have been eaten by rust. I just thought that it might be a good idea to have a new Lada 4x4 instead of having an old Toyota, but it seems that this is not true.

Old Nivas are pretty good off-road vehicles, very well sprung. But you mention 'we'; this car is pretty small and not designed to carry weight! For two people I think it's a poor choice unless you plan to travel very light.

You have been informed incorrectly. Land Rovers are mostly made from aluminium and withstand rust much better than most. I have been driving Land Rovers for 20 Years and can vouch for that.

All old vehicles are prone to rust if they have not been garaged their whole lives. Land Rover chassis are made from iron just like other cars. I would use rust as a criterion for selecting a specific used car, not as a way to judge between brands.

I don't know about Hungary, but prices are getting a lot higher for Defenders in recent years.
They are made of aluminium but the old ones have some weak spots where aluminum and iron can rust away very fast when water is getting involved. (inside of doors)
As said it still features a ladder chassis frame like most old skool 4x4s which is always a risk.
(be careful when buying a Nissan, some of them have breakage in their chassis)

So when it comes to poorly maintained vehicles, I would choose a unibody RAV4 over a Defender. But a Defender is better in offroading of course.
As said, other options are Landcruiser and Nissans.

But I would check how much offroading you really want to do. If you just want to be prepared for bad road quality and only take an occasional dirt track (which locals usually take with a normal car) the RAV4 is a pretty good choice.
The locals (at least in Asia) use it as well so parts are available. It is reliable, more comfortable than a real 4x4 and you will get a lot newer car for the same money.
Just don't overload it. If you're gonna take lots of heavy stuff, the 4x4s come with much higher load rating.

Thank you for all your comments! We plan to travel light and don't want to go hard offroading. So it seems that I will pick a few years old RAV4. bier

Just take a spare of all filters with you, perhaps also spare ignition parts and auxiliary belt, and go.

I would take the Lada. They are truly awesome off-road.

Buy a clutch kit as well as usual service items to take with you.

They are so basic any mech can work on them and if you need parts get them posted in.

I had a Rav and it’s AWD layout is poor.
If you want a soft roader Subaru symmetrical is far better.

There is a vid on YouTube that shows it.


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I agree, but the RAV4 is as servicable as the Lada in the countries where he is going. In fact, at times I saw more RAV4s than Nivas. Subaru is much less present than RAV4 or Lada Niva.
In the end I think the RAV4 will be more reliable and much more comfortable on long distance, for the long driving days.

He is also mentioning Africa. I don't know how to incorporate that in his route at this moment, because it is not easy to make a combination right now.
But I would never recommend doing Africa with a Lada Niva.
Although everything is possible in the end :P

Thank you! I was also considering the Toyota 4runner. Is this then a better choice than RAV4?


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I appreciate what you are saying however the Lada Niva is a proper and very capable 4wd. The Rav is AWD and not capable.

I am trading ability off against serviceability.

I have a 1996 Hilux Surf (4Runner) and think it's an excellent car. Not quite as tough as a Landcruiser or Hilux, but the build quality is the same.

Here it is at -40 degrees on the Kolyma Highway last winter

https://eurasiaoverland.files.wordpr.../02/veh-19.jpg

The trouble you will have is that cars of this age will need mechanical preparation, which gets expensive if you're not a somewhat experienced mechanic.

There are newer models, but very rare in Europe and I dare say not as well made.

EO

When are you looking to buy? I have a 2007 RAV4 that I'll be looking to sell soon in the UK.

I plan to buy only next year. At the moment I still not decided which 4x4 should I pick. Now I am collecting information from more experienced people than me. :) .. Anyway thank you for the information!

So the plan is to travel from Budapest to Almati and back, then after a year from Budapest to Bamako. Now I have the following cars on my list: Lada 4x4 (Niva), Toyota RAV4, Toyota 4runner, Land Rover Defender, Mitsubishi Pajero Pinin Wagon.

The 4Runner is great because it is more affordable than Landcruiser or Defender, but still is a capable 4x4.

With the Mitsubishi please check for any issues with that specific model. Don't know about the Pinin, but some of them have engine problems waiting to happen, others are fine.

Yes I understand, but I don't agree with your outcome.

What good is a very capable 4x4 if you bring it to Africa and it is overheating all the time or something breaks and you cannot service it?
I'm okay with a Niva for central asia and so on, because even if it breaks a lot, you can get it fixed.

If the vehicle is not reliable and/or not servicable, then automatically you should not be very confident to take it on long trips and offroad.

The Lada is reliable.
It is easily serviceable.
It is capable.
Any trained mechanic can fix one.
Parts can be shipped if required.

Adventure riders take modern bikes that require computers to diagnose them. I doubt the bush mechanics of Africa have final drives for R1200GS’s on their shelves yet many take them there.

It’s obvious we are not going to agree and that’s fine.


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I'm a big Subaru Forrester fan, got two, but for harder off road I'm looking for something thogher. If you are still considering prev gen Ladas, then add to your list the vitara, the one before the grand vitara model. It is heavily inspired by the nova but with proper Japanese engineering, in TUV reliability ratings it's way up there with Mercedes Benz or Porsche.

Nice idea! I also want such a family trip, I will definitely convince them. To be honest, I think that toyota is the best car for long trips, especially because it has enough space and doesn't create many problems. I have a toyota rav4 for more than 7 years and it only once had issues with the automatic transmission, but there are great prices for toyota rav4 ecm repair deals which are also very qualitative. So, I solved very quickly the problem with little money. I really wouldn't change toyota for anything, just my opinion.

My longest road was 6500 km, I and my husband traveled to Irkutsk from Lithuania. It was so long but our Land Cruiser 200 is a perfect car for these roads!

Toyota has the strongest network for spares for shure.

But you have to be careful with choosing the specific model - to be able to optain spares quicker during your journey.

I did travel 110`000 Kilometers, did a transafrica, did travel in south america - and can confirm that toyota can deliver spares internationally... But...

If the spare isnt common, Toyota will need aprox. 60 days to import them.

DHL International Business Express (2 days) brings it (mostly) in 7 days (if you are able to get an local partner to speedup the tax process), you need a good mechanic / garage at home who can support you on your journey.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-BqnnMWGIQu...0/DSC01613.JPG

I did wrote an article about in german language:
https://www.4x4tripping.com/2015/04/...weltreise.html

The Landcruiser 200 did served my well during my trips, and many repairs was possible locally (Windscreen in Mauretania, Windscreen in Namibia, side window in Bolivia). Mostly because the UN and the local Goverment did use the same car.

Other technical repairs - wasnt always that smooth - too with the Land Cruiser 200, but possible by toyota inside of a week: 53420-60050 Hood Hinge Assembly, 88710-6B580 Tube Assy, Air Conditioner, 88460-60400 CONDENSER ASSY. No, they arent able to deliver all of them quicker than 60days. But they was able to repair them - had to replace them at home.

Didnt expect the same experience with a 4Runner or a Rav4 during international travels. You will have to flight in the spares or wait ages each time. Because of that Issue - absolutely nothing speaks against an Lada 4x4

That is my personal view - and did grow with ongoing reading of travel blogs, vlogs, diarys. I did not just read each transafrica over the west travelblog since 2011 in detail - too I did following Panamerica and Silkroad Journeys. Therefore just a low percentage is wroting diarys or similar - too my focus don`t covers more than some low percentages and my own experiences.

As you can note above - this was not the toyota workshop in Mauretania - they did send me away with a 60days waiting time. This was the black market who did help. Guess wouldnt be able to help with a rarely used toyota down there.

Surfy

Everybody who've ever owned and driven a Soviet car have said that the most obscure and rare western or Asian vehicle of similar capability is a better choice. Mostly more reliable. A Soviet car works best if you're a masochist. If you want to constantly work on your car and keep enough spare parts to build another car out of said parts.