BMW-F800GS -adventure
 

The new BMW F800GS Adventure is to be presented internationally on june 15. 2013.

Any thoughts about this one?

BMW F800GS Adventure- First Look Review- Photos- Specs

Its kinda overdue.

Its kinda heavy for what it is (over 200 kgs DRY weight and 219 kgs with fuel)

There's not a lot to add to existing opinions of the F800GS apart from the fact that there is 8 more litres of fuel built in.

But its going to be a decent and solid, but not brilliant, off the factory floor go around the world on asphalt and occasional gravel roads bike. It will still not have rims and suspension capable of real off road riding, but none of the other heavyweight adventure bikes (except for maybe the KTM 990) do either. Here is a pic of an F800 wheel after a week off road in Siberia with my group last year. Those of us with good off-road suitable rims had no issues, no dents, no dings, no warping, just rims that stayed completely in shape, while the original BMW F800 rim was utterly destroyed in a week.

http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps0a46b412.jpg

http://sphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphoto...84689152_n.jpg

The F800 Adventures competition among the heavyweight adventure bikes (and now that its over 200 kgs dry - its a genuine heavyweight) - is going to be the approx same weight KTM 990 Adventure R.

I reckon it would be a similar standard road touring bike when compared to the KTM and a lot worse off road than the KTM.

Always good to have more adventure bikes on the market ... and its good to see BMW (of all manufacturers) so publicly recognising that 1200cc is not a prerequisite for an adventure bike.

Great to see an Adventure in the 800. Hope we don't have to wait so long for the water-cooled 1200GSA

10 years on
 

It feels like 10 years ago since BMW announced that they would introduce at least 2 new models of bikes each and every year for the foreseeable future.
At that time they were selling such bikes as the F650CS. It was quite hard to see how this would be achieved, but they have done it via updating the 1200GS every two years, building scooters and similar manufacturing and marketing.

IIRC, there was a time when they said that the "adventure" moniker would be applied to the 1200 boxer alone; so some things do change. It can't be long before the new 1200 engine comes along in the adv model - maybe next year? ( in accord with the 2 per year "rule").

its an odd time of the year to announce this bike. BMW normally likes to hit the market in October - December to give buyers the time to think about, then buy a bike when it hits the shops in spring, ready for the summer.

I assume the new 1200 GSA will stick to that schedule ... so maybe announce it October next year, and have it in dealers in March 2015? Would be my guess.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts about this bike.

Well - the dry weight is 204 kgs and then add 24 litres of fuel makes it 228 kgs or so. But its still very much lighter than the 1200/1200 adventure for example.

And youre not totally right when you write that there isnt a whole lot more to it than 8 litres more of fuel capacity. BMW writes this about it:

[I]
So, what makes this new version of the BMW F800GS an Adventure? It starts with the tubular steel trellis frame, which is basically stock F800GS hardware but is fitted with a strengthened rear subframe designed to handle the increased loads of off-road riding and the heavier new fuel tank, which, at 6.3 gallons, is 2.1 gallons larger than a standard F800GS’s. What’s more, the F800GS Adventure has new bodywork designed to keep proportions right, even with the large tank, while a larger windscreen, a more comfortable bench seat. [I]


When you compare the rims on the BMW 800 gs with others that you find so much better it could be of interest to know for other readers what bikes and rims are you comparing with? And were these wheels/rims of stock or maybe special replacement rims? If you compare a BMW 800 gs with for example a KTM 690 or a Suzuki DRZ 400 or something similar - its not exactly the same thing.....and thus you cant expect the same either.

Another question that comes to mind is how much off road riding do one want to do - or have to do - if one is riding overland? If you have a bike loaded with - I dont know but maybe 40-50 kgs extra of luggage, side and top cases etc etc - do one really want to go hardcore offroad riding? One sure want a bike that is capable on dirt and gravel roads - but offroad and enduro riding would probably be very much better with a smaller bike with no or very little luggage and also better equipped when it comes to tyres, rims, etc. In other words - a completely different thing.

Fuel is not water. Petrol is 0.7 kgs per litre ... 24 litres of fuel = 17 kgs

Yes this basically BMW saying what I said ... that apart from the extra 8 litres of fuel its much the same bike. It has new plastic panels (bodywork) - well it has to since it has different fuel tanks - and it has the same frame ... It does mention that it has a strengthened subframe, but to be honest I never heard of a problem with the stock F800 subframe so it hardly a noteable improvement ... certainly not one worth commenting on. In any case that comment you posted said the strengthening in the rear subframe is also just necessary because of the larger tank. So the new plastics and the improved subframe are just related to the bigger thank. Sorry but I dont see anything there worth commenting on other than the extra 8 litres of fuel - which it goes without saying is a useful addition. Apart from that its an F800GS ...nothing more.

If you sell an adventure bike that has components that are less than adventure worthy - surely the responsible thing for to do on a forum of adventure bikers, many with limited or no experience and, and many not knowing too much about what are strengths and weaknesses of certain bikes, (which is why they are here trying to get opinions of experienced people) surely the responsible thing for those experienced people to do is to pass on what are the strengths and weaknesses of bikes people ask for opinions about.?

Some of the rims in question were stock rims ... some were aftermarket rims. I dont think thats in any way a relevant question. The question is if someone is thinking of buying a particular bike , surely they also want to know the bikes weakpoints before they go off to remote places with it?

I would certainly hope they do!

The point is BMW could have built the bike with better rims. They didnt. And if you want to do anything more challenging than asphalt and light occasional gravel roads, then be aware that you may be well advised to change the rims.

For the record, the F800 rim was swapped out to a stock steel rim from an unused XTZ660 Tenere in Yakutsk, in Northern Siberia that we happened to stumble across. After that, if gave no further problems. Other stock rims that only took about 25-30% of the damage were stock BMW X-Challenge rims. Other rims that took no damage from the same conditions were an aftermarket Excel A60 rim and a stock Excel signature rim on a stock KTM wheel.


Well surely thats a question for the individual rider?

Your approach seems to be to pick a bike first, then decided its not capable of off road so you wont go there.

What if someone actually did want to go offroad a lot, and still wanted an opinion of a particular heavy adventure bike? Surely thats a possibility.

"How much off road do you have to do?" you ask! Have to do? Well you dont HAVE to do any. You can go from Europe to Cape Town on about 98% asphalt. You can go from Europe to Vladivostok on all asphalt. To can go from Alaska to Ushuaia on 98% asphalt ... ... if your version of adventuring is sticking to the main highways. All of those routes have been ridden by people on 400 kg Honda Goldwings. So I can flip your question round and ask you do you have to have an adventure bike if thats all you want to do? You can do THAT on a sportsbike or a chopper for that matter. Why get an F800GS Adventure?

Off pavement riding is not only something to endure when you travel. For many of us, off road riding is the key to getting to interesting places. Getting away from truck stops, highways, radar police. For many of us you dont go to Mongolia to ENDURE the roads ... some of us actually LOVE the fact that so much of the country is off-road.

Personally I like to go off road almost all the way. So I dont take a heavy 200 kg bike and load it up with 50-60 kgs of luggage. I prefer a 145 kg bike with 25 kg of luggage. And I go away with it for 3-7 months at a time.

But in giving opinions of an adventure bike, surely assessing its off road capabilities is a key part of that process? Not everyone likes asphalt. If you want to ride on road all the time thats fine and you are welcome to read my opinions and say well the rims are a weak point but I am not planning to go off road so that fact doesnt bother me. Some people who read this thread might want to know others opinions of this bike cause they want to take a bike to Mongolia, or Magadan. And if they do want to go there and they have been thinking about this bike, they might want opinions linking the two ?

Dont you think?

I assume many people dont want to ride off road and just "get thru it", but I also know many people new to adventure riding do want to do some and do want a bike that will allow them to develop into that, and those people also want to know what the F800GS is like offroad. The rim in the pics came from a Norwegian guy who was new to riding (and off riding around the world) and simply assumed he needed a heavy adventure bike since thats the only thing that is promoted by manufacturers. By the time he was changing his front rim in Yakutsk he specifically commented that he wished he had this exact kind of advice earlier, before buying his F800GS.

First of all - the bike is 229 kgs With full gas tank. End of discussion.

Secondly - my approach to this and that including this bike is something you dont know anything about. Please keep personal issues out of a discussion.

I appriciate Your thoughts about this bike and I have already thanked you for that.

You dont find the differences between the new adventure model and the "old" model 800 except the bigger fuel tank worth commenting. That kinda tells me where you stand. But of course you have the right to think and say so....

Strengths and weaknesses of bikes people ask for is surely important for experienced riders to comment upon and share thoughts about and I do register what you say about for example the rims of the BMW.
But to compare a lightweihgt bike like for example a KTM 690 - as you do - to a + 200 kg bike doesnt give the complete picture. If one place the same rims on a 150 kg bike and on a + 200 kg bike - sure the rims will take a lot more beating and come apart sooner on a + 200 kg bike.

It sure would be interesting to hear what bike you recommend for overlanding? And it sure could be interesting to hear more thoughts about this bike - also negative ones? Ok the rims arent of high class, any other negative sides with this bike?

The photos above are why I laugh when BMW position the F800GS with its spoked wheels as more offroad-capable than the F650GS with its alloys. I've seen as many total failures on BMW spoked wheels as I've seen on alloys, there's no point in having spoked wheels if the rims are made of chocolate.

I much prefer having a 21-in front wheel but I hate having tubes. What I'd really like to see with the F800GS and F800GS Adventure is tubeless spoked wheels. BMW did it with the HP2 and KTM does a tubeless 21/18 combination on the 1190 R.

I've moaned for a long time about the idiocy of BMW putting the close ratio gearbox from the F800S in an adventure bike; with six gears to choose from the ratios should be wider spread with both a lower first and a higher top.

As I do most of my biking outside the UK ideally the speedo should be digital so that it can be switched between MPH and KPH like most other bikes.

Above all, I don't particularly value the F800GS Adventure because I never found fuel capacity to be a limiting factor. In real world testing I got 271 miles out of the F650GS (pretty much the same bike as the F800GS). If I ever needed more than that I could bungy a plastic bottle to the luggage and tip in fuel after 100 miles or so.

??? There are no personal issues in this discussion. I pointed out a fault with a bike you like and you got offended. Go back to your original post ... You asked for opinions !!!

Well you are welcome to tell me there is more than just a bigger fuel tank that IS REALLY worth commenting on .... but then you kinda have to say what that is and why its notably better ... right?

Well I think most people on here know enough about my bike and its history to prevent me going into in too much detail, since its really a matter of public record ... there are over 20 pages in this book on what I recommended (as of 2010) ...including a 14 page section on my bike, its setup and why.
Building the Ultimate Adventure Motorcycle: The Essential Guide to Preparing a Bike for the Journey of a Lifetime: Amazon.co.uk: Robert Wicks: Books

And then there is a section in here regarding my bike choice and why:
Adventure Motorcycling Handbook: A Route and Planning Guide: Amazon.co.uk: Chris Scott: Books

Well I havent tried any of those, but what is says in the link in the opening post is that the new model has better seat (not all of us want to stand all the time while riding a bike...), better windscreen, better rear frame.
And I dont know is ESA and ASC is options on the excisting model.....

You must have me excused so very much - but I really dont want to order and pay two books to have an idea of Your opinions about this issue....I have hoped for an easier option.....

Anyhow - a very few persons have the ability, the energy, the time, the knowledge and the economical option to build their own bike. Us others must buy a stock bike and - at best replace a few things and add a few others.

And what other negative parts on the new GS800 adventure except the rims did you mention? ;)

ESA and ASC are indeed already options on the standard F800GS. I got around the highly uncomfortable standard seat by using an AirHawk (which I have been transferring from bike to bike), and bought an Eagle windscreen from Australia.

http://www.morocco-knowledgebase.net...a_top_1000.jpg
Admittedly the Eagle screen is nowhere near as cool as the one on the F800GS Adventure.

Better rear frame? The existing model is presumably built to handle a heavy rider and pillion and heavy luggage, so I'm not sure what's needed for a few more kilo of fuel.

Well I dont know if its easier for you (cause it means you might actually have to do some research), but here's a free option. You can read through 2000 posts and 120 something pages in this thread: RTW X-Challenge Adventurization - ADVrider

Its not only about "negative parts". An opinion of a machine is an opinion. It can be negative or positive. You are turning opinions of a paper machine into perceived personal insult. I think you need to remove yourself from a love affair with a machine that you clearly have not even seen yet. A machine is just a tool for a purpose. If the tool doesnt fit, it doesnt fit. If it doesnt meet a particular purpose, then why take it as an insult if some one points that out - after you specifically asked other people for opinions.

You have Tim Cullis here, probably alongside Chris Scott, the english speaking worlds most knowledgeable and experienced guy on Morocco, telling you he thinks the gearbox ratios are all wrong, and that he concurs that the rims are crap. If you are new to this, which I suspect you are, then you could do much worse than to listen to the words of wisdom from people who have been doing it for a long time, on a lot of different bikes, in a lot of different places, rather than just assuming you are an instant expert or that marketing people know what an adventure bike needs.

I have a truck load of experience in Siberia and Mongolia, probably more in Siberia than anyone else on the planet. I have done adventure riding across the developing world on everything from 115 kg bikes to 230 kgs 1200s and almost everything in between. I know what different bikes feel like, ride like and handle like when loaded up for travel and adventure in a huge variety of conditions. I am telling you the rims are crap, the bike is too heavy for what it is. I also said apart from that the bike is going to be solid but never spectacular.

If you dont want to hear it, then dont listen. But do us all a favour and dont ASK for other peoples opinions if you cant handle them.

Its not your first born son ... its a motorcycle ... a motorcycle that you haven't even seen yet. So dont take views of it that you disagree with as a personal insult.

I've heard from several sources that the alloy was changed (2010?), but if it's true it's still might be just a minor upgrade. It has 36 spokes so it's easy and cheap to find another rim.

If I remember correctly the rim on the bike above had covered a pretty long and hard distance before it got trashed. Geir (XChallenge) also changed his front rim after the trip - I don't know why.
Maybe the standard rim is all you need, it depends on your luck and how you use the bike. On the other hand sturdy rims are cheap, I would have changed both rims. Suspension is a bigger issue...


BTW:
The increased range is nice!

The rim in the pics was from a bike bought new in Norway in early 2012 ... I believe. So if it was worse before 2010 then the first couple of years rims must have been terrible.

Yes he did a lot of miles on the rim before Siberia but it was all on asphalt apart from 500 km or so in Tajikistan - which was graded gravel roads.

Geir's X-Challenge rims suffered minor damage. As I mentioned above, they suffered damage, but a fraction of what the F800 rim suffered. Geir has since changed to an Excel rim (a) so that the bike is as good as new and (b) cause he wants to keep riding it and adventuring with it and felt that a quality front rim was a wise investment so that he never has to worry about it again.

At the end of the day, a good Excel rim is about 190 EUR retail! and the top of the range rim money can buy about 250 EUR. I dont want to even guess how low BMW could buy Excel rims at an OEM level, in bulk runs of thousands ... no more than 50 EUR thats for sure - probably 30 EUR. So maybe BMW save 20 EUR by putting crappy rims on the bike.