BMW G650 Engine - Reliable ???
 

So... It's been out a few years now.

Is it any good ???

It's no secret. I'm no fan of the old F650 in any of it's guises. Unreliable and built to kinder Egg toy standards.

The Sertao is tempting me to the dark side. It seems to tick all of my boxes. On paper that is.

I had so many experiences with terrible F650's that I fear the new one..

Any real world experiences out there ???

Good or bad !

I had a good look around the message board and also managed to contact a few people when I was looking fro a sertao. All reports back were really positive - the engine's built by Kymco and from what people are saying is reliable and well built. There's quite a few done some distance - London to Magadan was one with out a hitch with a group of G650's and some morroco stuff. Ended up buying one, so time will tell now !

Yeah.. There is an EPIC thread on ABV rider and no one is having problems but no ones really taken one further than 25,000 miles.

Kymco... WOW !! I used to sell Kymco bikes/scooters. They are probably the worst made pieces of unreliable shit ever to grace our roads.

But, they were built to a VERY low budget.......

Chinese engines. Good or bad !! hmmmmmmmmm

I'm torn between a Sertao and a XT660Z for my next trip.

Wow, TT, no-brainer? Why would you choose the Sertao? I know I'm biased, but I rode one in the summer and thought it was a POS next to the XT660Z, a nice example of which can be had for around 3k GBP....

I like the way you talk haha !

I liked the Sertao as it's lighter than the XT660, which is a lardy bitch isn't it !

Nice economy too. Only 14L tank though. I heard the Sertao is quite nice offroad which would be great for the road of bones ;)

It's true - the XT is a heavy bike, but once you get all your gear on it, will it make much difference? I get 65-70 mpg unless hammering it on the motorway; and you can pretty much take 'em stock.

Also, screw and locknut tappets, no dodgy waterpumps yada yada yada. I'm modding mine for further trips as we write and the deeper I get into the bike, the more I like it.

Yeah.... A Tenere has been on my wish list for years.

Have you found ways to lose weight on it ? Exhausts perhaps ??

I think it would be hard to lose more than about 10 kg from the bike; 2 into 1 exhaust would save some, no centrestand, Li battery; but it's only about 10 kg heavier than the sertao in any case. Would you really notice that weight difference with all your gear on it?

An XT660R is a thought, too, and a good one of those can be had for about a grand less than the Tenere.....

The engine has been around a long time . . .
 

FWIW. It is built in China.

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...na-tr650-67424

The Husky TR650 seems superior to the Sertao in every way - less weight, much better suspension components, cheaper.

from the perspective of someone who works on them, they have a bit of trouble with the engine, the decompression lever is to heavy so when hot the bike will not start once turned off, although this has been fixed with a lighter decompression lever were still getting new bikes from the factory with the old lever fitted but obviously we dont know which ones are affected until we have a customer call us saying their bike wont start after they have stopped at petrol stations etc. This is obviously fixed under warrenty.
The engine on very very early production models where made by rotax (literaly just the first batch) and now all of them are made by kymco as previously said.
the bike in a whole is pretty much a direct copy of the previous f650 (not the f650 twin, gotta love using the same name for 2 different bikes) just with updated fairing and slightly newer electrics
It is put together in china as a cheap product in the bmw range and tuned to be new license learner firendly (slighty down on power then last time they were around)
Apart from the non start problem we havnt had much trouble, there was one that shocked me though, we had a customer whos chain snapped at 5000 miles so might be worth changing that if you are going to go for one long distance.

The huskys 650 is the same bike with slightly differant clothing, not sure whether suspension/chassis is the same, but certainly the engine and electrics are the same apart from the fact its non detuned like the bmw

Finally i like the fact that people are still slating the f800 engine for a problem that was solved in 2008, yes it was a big mistake but that was 5 years ago i bet if your girlfriend cheated on you youd move on quicker

The TR650 uses a different chassis than the Sertao - ovalized steel instead of the rectangular frame on the Sertao.

It has a revised cylinder head with bigger ports and valves, larger lift cam, and a higher compression, forged piston, 1000rpm higher redline, making more than 20% more (claimed) power. Dyno runs seem to show about 10% actual increase. The Marelli ECU is new. The engine mandates premium fuel.

Add a high mount exhaust instead of the Sertao's rather vulnerable low-mount.

The Sertao has a bit more travel with Showa parts but the fork tubes are a beefy 46mm compared to the 41mm on the Sertao.


The fading memory capacity of old men . . . makes them hold on to those they can with a ferocity.

Doesn't Colebatch run the 650 ? That Chinese engine seemed to do fine.

I didnt know the specifics, we havnt actually sold or had any interest in one of the huskys for me to pay any attention to it, but like i said the bmw was detuned from the previous release to fall into the new learner legal bracket so the power increase that you see isnt that much

Husky provides little to no support to us dealers, i would hate to know how much support to their customers if they needed it

The exahaust are mounted in pretty much the same position?

Husky is owned by BMW. The guy who re-designed the engine on the TR650 was on the S1000 team and is responsible for the "red-head" Husky's including my preference - the TE630.

Well . . . not in the photos I'm looking at . . . the exhaust runs under the engine on the left-hand side of the bike on the Sertao and across the cylinder on the same side on the TR650.

Finally i like the fact that people are still slating the f800 engine for a problem that was solved in 2008, yes it was a big mistake but that was 5 years ago i bet if your girlfriend cheated on you youd move on quicker[/QUOTE]

You may work on them but unfortunatly BMW did not fix all the engine issues with the F800GS five years ago, if you dont believe me just compare the new 2013 model with the 2012 model you will see just at a glance it has new water pump etc...who knows what they changed inside?? They also changed the rear hub design as well! Even though when mine blew up they claimed they never heard of it happening!!...refused to replace under warranty!! and magically a new design appears in 2013!!!!

I would choose a XT660Z over a BMW any day! Even if it is slightly heavy it will out last any BMW, The other option as mentioned is the XT660 which are a good budget option...and super reliable of course!

BMW
 

I'm torn between a Sertao and a XT660Z for my next trip.doh

TED, Did you really write that ? Do you know what a Seratao is YES IT IS A BMW lol.

Whats caused this change ? Remember BMW:helpsmilie: (Break My Wallet, Bring Me Workshop etc) Is it going to Snow here tonight (& I live in the tropics):D

Cheers & I love these passionate discussions that we create with the zest for
life that only a Biker has aquired
Paulbier.

Hi,

Well most "motorbikers" dont ride more then 5000 km per year so some of them bikes might stil exist and after what happened in the last years owners probably want to get rid of them so of corse one still has to warn people not to buy them.

There is a reason why after more then 20 Years the AfricaTwin, Transalp and XT or DR has a good reputation like it has an this is something i think BMW simply doesnt want: Quality. You can buy a transalp with 20 years and more then 100.000 km and its still good for a world trip:

Riding the rough west coast through Africa - Transafrika part 3

The problem with quality is that if products dont break they last too long and the company sells less of them. This is no fiction but proofed not only for bulbs, computer printers and cars (Ford T):

Obsolescence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7jIny4Sc30
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJeWoxGop-g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6QHuNib748
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INeutNBPl38

Tobi

Damn!
This must be the fastest :offtopic: thread ever.

Time to see what is being said in "which bike" - maybe there is something in there about the G650GS :innocent:

Just because its owned by bmw doenst mean its ran by them, i wish that someone in bmw would redesign the way the work like they are their bikes


Sorry missunderstanding on my part thought you was talking about the silencers not the headers, yes you are correct my bad lol

I know the F800 well and wouldn't EVER buy one. So many trip destroying breakdown stories on them and I have friends with bad experiences. And it's not just the engine. It doesn't take long searching on the hubb to find out why. Anyway.. This thread ain't about them.

The fact that the engines are made by Kymco really put me off. I used to sell Kymcos in a dealership. They were TERRIBLE. REALLY REALLY bad. The quality control was non-existent.

The huskys do look good but I think they will be too highly tuned and uncomfortable for me.


I think I'm back with the XT600Z Tenere. I toyed with a TTR600 but they're bone shakers.

Unless I can find a nice DR650SE... That would get my vote everytime :)

I know.... I think I need therapy :rofl:

I'm not thrilled with chinese-made things, generally. And a chinese made battery, just 6 weeks old, failed me ever so inconveniently in Uzbekistan. (No, it wasn't the VRR, not another circuit issue.)

But that engine is made in Taiwan. Colebatch has one and has flogged it considerably. And equating Taiwan's quality of manufacture with China's is silly.

Ride a Husky. The handling is excellent on the TE. The MCN writers found the SR to be a bit unstable at speed. That could well have been tires. At lower pace it was deemed "excellent". And neither the TE nor the TR are "tightly-wound" motors. Far from it.

Dementia (taken from Latin) originally meaning madness, from de- (without) + ment, the root of mens (mind) is a serious loss of global cognitive ability in a previously unimpaired person, beyond what might be expected from normal ageing.

After 30y/o I have also hesitated, felt sometimes desoriented, even tempted, but all went away. You're stronger than average, principles are deeply rooted in you, you'll overcome such a temporary outbreak. Ted, "may the Made in Japan force be with you". :mchappy:

PS: Now seriously, it could have been worse, made in Italy! Enjoy whatever you decide!

I think you mean "Made in Japan 20+ years ago".

I grew up with Hondas - a Super 90 was the first. I remember the first 750 Four. Amazing machines and for a long, long time.

They may still be reliable. But they generate poor excitement in the marketplace. BMW are making money nicely. Suzuki is on the ropes.

An Africa Twin . . . perhaps as reliable as the sun. And as exciting/engaging/invigorating as soggy toast.

Again, if you want a reliable beast of burden - just get a camel. :) At least it'll have character.

Or made in Hinkley :)

Please also check out post #33 at http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...-place-66414-3

Yes, true, but you got the idea. Still better Made in Brazil by Japan! bier

You mean! A symptom of recovery anyway, but don't open a new front!

Something I learnt today: add #33 to the url and it is a direct link to that post. If you add #legs it looks for the best pics too :smartass:

Hello Ted

I don't know about the Sertago, but my XT660Z brought me so far over 76000km since I started my trip.
I had some minor problems, due to "made in Italy".
With all my camping gear, food, extra gaz (total 800km), Water for several days,etc. I think that was around 60kg on the back of the bike.
I don't think the few kg that the sertago was lighter would have made a difference.

All I can say is that with the Tenere you will finish your trip on the bike,not on a Pickup.

sushi

What were your minor problems ????

Cheers, Ted

Hello Ted
All my problems in 77000km so far:
26000km:
The connection of the AC/DC converter got bad and didn't make contact.
->bike is not running.
I was at Ticlio,Peru,4818m when this happend an could just roll down the hill for 20km. Then recharged the batterie and soldered the pins directly to the converter.This is a known problem only to the 2008 models.
30000km:
The rear break didn't open correctly,probably due to dirt, and overheated/bent the disc. Got it sort of repaired/bended back but changed the disc 8000km later.
34000km:
The chain snaped, but only one side of a piece broke so there was no damage to the bike. Had a spare chain with cliplock.This was not a Tenere more a REGINA problem.
35000-47000km:
"made in Italy" means that they are to lazy to put any grease to the stearing bearings. At 47000kn it had to be replaced.
But if you grease it, every bearing, when you buy the bike, EVEN A NEW ONE, you're fine.
A big "Thank You" to Italy.
Since 40000km there are a lot of dents in the front rim due to my speed and the rocks and I can't trim the spokes anymore but that's not a problem.Got a big one bended back in Sydney with a press.
62000km:
A kangaroo commited suicide on my bike while I was riding at 90 km/h.
Since then the front/right fork is bended a bit,had it bended back by a big press in Carnarvon, but I can ride quite fin.
68000km
After Australia,watercrossings, one bearing of the rear wheel brocke. replaced all 4 of it in Malaysia at a scooter shop for
$10, it's industrial size.
The rubber blocks at the rear wheel/chain wear out fast, but with a piece of tube inbetween they last forever.
That's all so far, to be continued.
sushi

It sounds like the bike has done GREAT....... considering.

So, all you need to do on a new one is hard-wire or put a proper connector on the rectifier and grease up the bearings.

Sounds good to me.


Jeeez, I need to lie down. I can't believe I considered buying a BMW.

*Slaps face with keyboard over and over and over...*

Piano sales might be OK for Yamaha, but ............
 

So is Yamaha.
Most of the motorcycle division profits come from selling 125cc bikes into the Asian market; in Europe they priced themselves out of the market and have now admitted that - too late maybe?

rectifier,:cool4: so that's what this thing is called in english.
Only a problem for a certain part of the 2008,the first year, series.
It came slowly but I didn't know the symtoms by then.
for more info try this:
. : XT660.com The #1 xt660 resource : . | The #1 xt660X, xt660R and xt660Z Tenere resource
or if you understand German:
XT-660.de • Thema anzeigen - LimaRegler defekt XT 660 Z - Serienproblem !?

The rectifier, disc and chain came all within less than 10000km, but that was just bad luck. Back then I doubted how far I will get but today I'm happy with this bike.

As I said before I don't know the Sertago. I never considered this bike, but the F800GS which in the end had to much electronic for me so I went for the Tenere.
The fact that I already had a XTZ660 from the early 90's helped also.

There is one big problem though if your shorter than 1.80cm.
The seating position is quite high.
Just go and try one out and see for yourself.

In Switzerland Yamaha tried to sell the Tenere in 2008 for almost $13000.
In 2010 the official price was reduced to around $10000. (already adjusted the fall of the $ in this periode of time)
I bought mine in February 2011 as a new bike and , what a surprice , it was a 2008 model with the known problem of the rectifier, which I wanted to avoid by not buying a used bike doh



sushi

I rode one the new f650s or whatever one wants to call it in 2011,it went ok,but you look at it and think bloody hell its built to a price,ancient forks,tin swingarm..it didnt seem that robust..
Then I found myself a geriatric old tenere and its taken me further than any of the new bikes I've had have..yamaha got something very right all that time ago..