Camp Stoves Petrol vs Gas
 

Happy New Year to all,

I have been reading through all the posts on stoves and most people seem to go for a petrol burning type. I see the advantages to this, one fuel type to carry and always have a big supply of it, you should be able to get fuel everywhere or you have other problems.

I will be going through Europe (west & east) soon and was looking at the gas container type stoves. They seem to break down a bit smaller and although petrol stoves don't seem tricky there is even less to the gas type. Something like the Campingaz Twister 270.

What is the availability of the campingaz gas containers like in western Europe ? is there a more popular brand ? or are they not used much at all hence why everybody seems to use petrol type ?

Any advise would be helpful.

Cheers

You have to look at the overall performance. gas canisters don't like cold and high altitude, it's the same for the trangia type alcohol stoves. I've never had any such problems with my Coleman 533. Ok, the performance drops off a bit in those conditions but it'll still cook your meal pretty quick. You can die of starvation waiting for some stoves!

I have always been a great deffender of Trangia type stoves, especially the military ones but have recently converted to a Coleman. http://www.johnscrossshop.co.uk/WebP...e=076501215366

It fires up really quick and is nearly as controlable as a gas stove. The other advantage is as you wrote, that the fuel is the same as the bike. OK, they don't pack down small.

Pack Size
 

Pack size is a factor as we will be on the road for 3+ months. I have no problem putting T piece and tap the fuel line to allow filling a Coleman like the feather.

But if the Campingaz or the Coleman gas stove cylinders are widely available it seems a bit easier. I don't think I will be camping at a very high altitude.

ive had both the coleman sportster and the pro/butane stove i use now, and ive used a trangia in the past.

they all had pros and cons, the petrol stove went like a rocket and you'll never run out of fuel, but was a bit fiddly and messy i suppose.
the trangia was slow and messy, but v.low tech for maintenance and a superb design for packing everything away.
the gas job is halfway between the two with no mess and tiny stoves but the bottles dont last very long unless you get the bulky big boys, but they are easy to find across europe.

the best stove for me would be the 27-series trangia with gas converter, but im not rockerfeller

For you, I think in Europe you can find cannisters for a stove and generally they seem to be pretty cross-compatible: I was able to use a Coleman cannister on my Primus so vice-versa etc.

Otherwise, consider a multifuel stove: they keep your options open:
I pushed the boat out and got a Primus Omnifuel when it was on sale. As the name suggests it will run on anything including compressed brown envelopes soaked in water... indeed I have cooked on petrol, but its messy (loads of soot)

Failing that you can get cooking fuel (white gas?): it is used the way petrol would be, but burns really cleanly, and the bottles it comes in can be recycled: I understood from one salesman in Ellis-Brigham or Blacks who was into his camping that the gas cannisters are not refillable: so they make a lot of waste to relatively few cups of brew: perhaps something to bear in mind.

Alternatively there is the a Trangia meths burner: meths is pretty universal....

Well here in France Campig Gaz is widely available, you just wander into supermarkets and voila.

Couple of things to consider. If your gaz stove has cartridges you pierce then look out for the packsize as you can't remove the cartridge once it's on, and secondly, environmentalistness. Unless you religiously recycle them the cartridges are a huge waste of metal.

For years I travelled with a Camping Gaz stove, and I still use it for festivals, as I can take my toaster, and it lights easier. But for travelling I use a Trangia with the multi-fuel adaptor, just for the fact I know I can always scrounge some fuel.

Confusion
 

Sorry guys I should have added a link, The campingaz stove and cylinders/canisters are of the Easy Clic type. You can remove them at will. I had one back in Aus but didn't use it much so never found out how long a cylinder/canisters lasts.

Alexlebrit, is it these campingaz Easy Clic canisters that available in France or the type you referred too only ?

You can see the different types on the link below. It also shows the Coleman versions as well.

http://www.johnscrossshop.co.uk/WebP...egoryCode=1500

Sorry for the confusion.

Being French (I believe) Camping Gaz of all types is easily found. Coleman being American might be different, but to be honest those canisters look the same to me, are there any differences?

Ah "Being French" is an important fact. I didn't know that. In theory the neighbouring countries should / might sell them.

Yup both the Campingaz and the Coleman have puncture type and detachable types. The Campingaz detachable type clips & clamps on. The Coleman screws on.

:thumbup1:

I bought my 270 stove in the UK, they are very popular cannister in France also. Note the 470 has double the gaz for just a small increase in price (same fitting). Also these use a mixture of butane and propane so work much colder than most. They are much used for soldering/brazing and can be had in any toolshop or supermarket. a cannister usually lasts for more than one season for me.

Hi there I have used camping gaz ones, trangia and have finally setteled on a msr dragonfly. This is mainly for two reasons, the first of which is the fact that you have a great amount of heat and control with the msr enabling you to actually cook as apposed to just boil water and reheat.

The other reason being I was away on a trip in wales, set up camp just started to cook with my camping gaz stove, and it started to run out of gas, it was a Sunday and I had been trying to find a spare to buy all day, but to no avail. Anyway it ran out with the pasta part rehydrated, leaving me with no brew and no dinner, stuck in the middle of nowhere.

Guess what I am saying is this happened mid camping season in wales which is built on camping caravanning tourism and absolutely riddled with campsites and camping shops. It might not be quite so easy in the middle of eastern europe.

Anyway there's my two penny's worth.

All the best and a happy new year Tom

additional. I always carry a spare cannister :)
second, make sure the flame area is shielded from the wind, can halve cooking time.

Very sound advice.

Also when you say "a cannister usually lasts for more than one season for me" is that going on bike trips ? if so how long ? ie how many hours do you get out of a 470 cannister ? I know it will depend on how high you have it turned up.

Cheers for all the help so far everybody.:thumbup1:

Axelbrit, does the multifuel adaptor also attach to gas canisters?

the euro screw type gas cans are readily available all over. when bike camping i generally get 3 or 4 days out of a 270, thats cooking breakfast and some dinners, lunch and as many dinners as poss eating out, im supposed to be on holiday!

in UK i cook myself all the time, as i can do a better job than the overpriced crap some foreign student undercooks for you. in france the stove only comes out for breakfast, when you can have a slap up feast in any roadside caff for a few quid whats the point?

No, the multi-fuel stove is liquid fuels only, to be honest I've only ever used it with petrol, and don't really know which other fuels you can put in it, I should look sometime I guess. You just take out the spirit burner and it fits in the same place.


They do do a gas burner as well, but it says it fits the Primus system, and I have no idea what fitting that is, anyone know?

EDIT: I just looked on the Primus site and it says "INTERNATIONAL STANDARD SCREW THREAD" so I'd guess it'll take other canisters than Primus's own.

ah right, i thought so.

i knew they did a gas converter, and its one of the most economical gas stoves you can get because of the trangia set up, all the heat goes up past the pot and doesnt escape out the sides.

the euro standard screw thread is the common one, coleman, primus, sunngas seem to be the most common makes here in UK.
gaz do their own types, the old piercable one that you cant take off again and a newer one with a valve in the cans.

you can get adaptors to put canisters on different types of stoves, could be handy if you cant get the type of can your stove needs? quite pricey though compared to just getting another stove.

I was on a really tight budget when I bought my kit so I've got a military Trangia from here...

Buy your Trangia Army stove, mess kit, Trangia Army Stove, from Surplus & Adventure online Army & Navy superstore

The Trangia meths burner may work fine in summer and at low altitudes, but I found the time to boil a mug of water was unacceptable. I don't bother taking the Trangia burner and my Gelert S/S insulated mug is a perfect fit inside so keeps everything compact. At present, I see no reason why I'd need to upgrade this.

At the time, I couldn't justify the prices asked for some burners so I bought a Sunngas alpine stove from a camping shop.

Sunngas Alpine Camping Stove from Surplus and Outdoors / Camping Stoves

This set up has done everything from bike touring and short camping trips to beach fishing trips on the North Sea coast in winter and is still going well despite the sand and salt water. Price and stability are it's big plus points. The legs do fold away but due to the hose, pack size isn't anything special. I will look at upgrading to something more compact and better quality as and when I need to but it's well worth a look if money is tight.

As for the ecomentalists, I took the old cannister along to a camping shop in Germany, just in case there was a language problem buying a new one and they took the old cannister for recycling. BTW, I get about 5 days out of the small cannisters but I've never had a real problem finding a replacement. Even gas cannisters from DIY shops will fit if you're desperate.

I have done some serious google-ing and this is what I have found.

As Alexlabrit said Campingaz is indeed French. The company interestingly became a part of Coleman Inc in 1996. The cylinders / canisters are available in western Europe and the Campingaz web site is even in French, German, Spanish, Italian and Dutch.

The AA Caravan & Camping guide tells which sites sell Campingaz and other gas types. Although I think this refers to the bigger caravan sized cylinders mostly.

I think carry a spare is the smart thing to do.

I used a Brasslite alcohol stove on a recent trip in the US and it worked ok even for two pot meals but it was all but useless when I was camped at 2,500m/8000ft. This isn't a problem in Europe though. It's tiny, weighs nothing and the fuel is available everywhere. The important thing with these stoves is the windbreak. You have to make it close fitting, about 1/2" larger than the pot. I just bought some disposable oven trays and made it from those. Adjustable for each pot with two paperclips.

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/b...o2DEnlarge.jpg

Brasslite Ultralight Alcohol Backpacking and Camping Stove

If you really must drag around cooking equipment, why use anything than a coleman Duel fuel stove.

Pretty small, runs on the same petrol as your bike and packs a punch. Never let me down !

Why piss about with carrying gas or searching for replacements !!!

I also see no need for these hugely expensive MSR petrol stoves. They cost a fortune, block up just by looking at them and need Ieuan & Charleys back up crew to carry to tools to clean them..

Personally, id forget the stove and just carry bread, cheese and tinned meat for when you cant find an alternative... It usually ends up cheaper eating at a small local diner or kiosk than cooking for yourself anyway..

Just my 1 pence worth !

The spare I bought two years ago is still unused. I know the old cylinder is about done. when I fit it, I will at the end of that trip buy a replacement at our local supermarket. Each year I usually do two trips of about a week, cooking breakfast and one other meal at least per day, plus the extra odd brew of tea or coffee usually 2-3 weekend trips also. One of teh weekends is usually the trip to German diesel bike rally which is at the end of the season (my season) so more need for hot stuff.
The windshield is very important. I brew tea or coffee in a saucepan using tea/coffee bags. Generally a 270 is good for a year and a bit, the 470's last about twice that, but only cost a little bit more. the can be removed as they are self sealing (ball valve). So I guess you could just dump the cannister and keep the burner if you flying. If I had to live using it I would go for a fuel the same as my vehicle, but gaz is not expensive and very clean (In Europe/Morocco at least).

Gix,
First off advise is a verb so it is correct to write, I advise you to think carefully.
Advice is a noun, my advice follows:

Petrol, your bike runs on it.
Your stove runs on it.
No brainer.
bill

Yup..

I swear by mine.. Always lights, always cooks and you can use a multitude of fuels in it. Petrol obviously you will always on tap.

You can carry it full of fuel and it doesn't leak, no messing about with assembling or cleaning after every use and they aren't even expensive.

I love mine and really cant see why anyone would bother with anything else.

Ted is right. I have a Coleman Sportster that I got off the net for £30. Absolutely solid, if you want to go lightweight get the 'feather' version. I have only ever run mine off unleaded petrol and have had no problems.

Compared to the £5 (!) for a gas cylinder (just been in my local outdoor shop - couldn't believe the price) the tank of the sporster will cost about 50p to fill up. And, like has been said, it runs on the same fuel as the bike. I also believe there is no need for the more expensive MSR jobs, they are more fiddly and some you cant adjust the flame on them - try simmering on that! They are lighter, sure, but you are riding, not hiking, so a few grams either way is irrelevent.

Like Ted, I can't see why anyone uses anything else for bike touring.

Matt :)

Got to try one today, they're fantastic, if I didn't already have the Trangia set up I'd have the 533, you just get the feeling it's robust and will last for years, whereas the Trangia one I have is a bit finickety. At the risk of having scorn poured all over me, the Coleman is the Toyota, and the Trangia's the Landie.

petrol wins...
 

I've used a Coleman 533 and was quite happy with it until i bought my new Optimus Nova Plus. Having a bottle you can detach makes it easier to pack away and the stove is much more stable on the ground not to mention more powerful.

I also have a twist on gas stove which i hardly ever use now. Its nice in that its cleaner and has its own lighter built in, but its just not powerful enough and is even worse in the cold.

Alkylate petrol - worth considering if in Europe
 

Gixxer

Check out my thread on "petrol alternative" liquid fuel if you are using a multifuel stove. We have road tested both the Trangia type systems outlined by Alexlebrit - very efficient! Very clean.

More data on the clean petrol option can be found here

Hope that helps