Keeping you tent dry inside
 

I recently exprienced something that I had miraculously never had to deal with: a night of heavy rain followed by packing up in the rain.

Unfortunately, water did leak in during the night :censored:.

Partly, I think there was splash-back from the ground, up past the flysheet, onto the poruous material of the tent. However, I recently tested the groundsheet of my tent and it also appears to be letting in some moisture.

So two questions:

Should the footprint extend past the edge of the ground sheet to keep the tent away from the wet ground, or should it stay just within the boundary to avoid splash back and pooling or water over the course of the night?

What might I treat a groundshhet with to re-proof it totally?
Unfortunately, the manufacturer is not gracing with me with a response to this same question...

Thanks for the pointers!

I usually make a footprint out of plastic sheet beacause I am too tight to buy a proper manufactured one.Usually I cut it just undersize so hopefully rain will run away and soak away into the ground rather than collect on the footprint.

:laugh:: I use opened rubble bags, ironed together, then cut to size.

Sounds like mine could probably do with being cut so it is that bit smaller and not poking out from under the tent.

the footprint should be as small as possible, just bigger than the groundsheet but not bigger than the fly. if it is rain will run down the fly onto the footprint, and the tent will be sat in a puddle. it will soon soak through.

Never used a footprint but put closed cell foam carrymat under groundsheet, it's always smaller. Seen some foul weather and managed to stay dry (in the tent)

Packing up in the rain is one of camping's little pleasures isn't it. I've had to do it many many times but fortunately my mind's blanked out most of the memories. Wait till you get to the next stage where you head off all day in the rain and have to use everything - still soaking wet- for another night of heavy rain. Especially when you find your sleeping bag has somehow got soaked during the day. :stormy::stormy::(:(

Fixing a leaking groundsheet depends on what material it's made of and why it's leaking. Some leaks come from punctures - sharp stones etc can do it easily and you can usually find some material to patch it with. I have an old Vango Force 10 tent (about 40 yrs old now) that I still use regularly with a groundsheet made out of something like pvc. That's been punctured loads of times and has just been patched with some bits of material I got from Vango. It's still watertight.

I had another tent where the groundsheet was made of proofed nylon - a sort of heavier weight version of the flysheet. That was fine until you used it in really heavy rain where the ground was saturated and then the whole of the groundsheet seemed porous - no single leak point, water just seemed to soak through it. I never found anything that worked to fix it and just used a cut down pvc tarp (a few quid from boot fairs or Machine Mart) as an under layer.

The "footprint" approach is a good idea anyway if you're putting the tent up on anything other than a putting green as it's sacrificial protection for an expensive tent. I've usually cut mine to be about an inch or so smaller all round than the tent groundsheet - lay it on the ground, put the tent up on top and go round with a stanley knife. Ideally it would be a bit bigger so you could lift up the edges to form a kind of tub but in practice I've found that some bit usually drops down and forms a kind of funnel to channel water in.

That pretty much exactly describes my predicament both in terms of the material, symptom of water entering and the likely mistake I made with footprint dimensions, whose existance, it took this one night to highlight!

So, a new footprint is in order (mine is looking pretty tatty and has been üpnctured here and there by twigs, stones and what-not). Shame to hear there is no cure for the porous ground sheet condition, but good to know this could be mitigated with a decent footprint shape.

One of the many reasons I use a folding camp bed is, should the tent leak, the sleeping bag is off the floor.

My super thick air mattress is wide enough and tall enough to keep my bag off the tent floor.
Self-inflating camping mats features and specs - Alpkit

Surrounding me with stuff, the wife etc keeps the mat away from any damp bits. I would think a new tent could get some condensation under the sleeping mat, are you sure the base is leaking?

Nikwax do tent reproofing stuff, I don't see why you couldn't cover the base in that. Having done that you could search for puncture holes as you would with an inner tube , even using puncture repairs to seal them?! Some tent manufacturers would replace the groundsheet if it was knackered for a fee?
The orange survival bags are quite good once cut and opened out for a reasonably durable, cheap and light sacrificial footprint.

Get a SHAM-WOW.
YouTube - ‪ShamWow (Full Length)‬‎

Great piece of kit for tent camping. I use mine to wipe down my tent and fly if their wet.

You will be saying WOW every time you use it.

daryl

It was not condensation: there was a flim of water under my Thermarest and my sleeping bag was wet at one end...

To test it I later pitched the tent and tipped some water into it!! Left for 5 mins then tipped it out. I then checked underneath: droplets were coming through. Now OK that was a fair amount of water (2 gallons?) but still it is clear that the base is not impermiable. It was general moisture especially at a taped seam so not punctures.

The nikwax and a re-trimmed footprint would be a good combo.

As for the manufacturer: zero customer support, it would seem. Wrote an email asking for advise: ten days on, zip... So no idea what they recommend :thumbdown:

So who's the manufacturer? I've used a Robert Saunders for years, not needed customer support, but it's becoming old and thin, well worn, time to look for something new and, hopefully, better, I don't want to give money to people who make sub-standard products with no customer support, tell us who they are and save others suffering damp/wet nights.

My experience is that a top quality tent will not leak, ooze or weep water through the floor. Quality is expensive (although expensive doesn't guarantee quality).

I now use Hilleberg tents. Neither one has ever leaked any water through floor or elsewhere. I do not use a groundsheet, and I've had them pitched in adverse situations.

In the past I've done the same with Bibler tents, and before that I used an extinct brand named Alpine Designs. In fact, I've never used a groundsheet for any of my tents in almost 40 years of year-round camping, climbing, mountaineering, and even (gasp!) motorcycle camping . The whole concept of using groundsheets under tent floors is a recent development; before that, tent floors were expected to keep the water out. Now, if your tent leaks or the floor punctures because you pitched it on some pine needles, the salespeople will sell you a fitted groundsheet for an unconscionable amount of money. This does not strike me as reasonable, somehow.

Of course I've also used cheaper tents, although they don't usually belong to me. They tend to leak unless seamsealed laboriously and repeatedly, and they ooze water through their floors. They also tear and puncture more easily, and they often photo-degrade more rapidly. There are various grades of nylon, polyester and other materials (mylar, for example) used in tent manufacture, different ways of sewing seams, and various grades of waterproofing treatments. Some work better than others, and some last longer.

Just something to consider. YMMV.

Mark

Edit: redundancy

Ha!!
Mines a Robert Saunders, too!!

If you do call or email with a problem: don't expect a helpful response if any!!

Must say I'm disappointed: I will try some of the suggestions above, but over the 4 years since I bought it I have used, but not abused it, always dry before packing, always with a footprint.... and it leaks.

Maybe I'm expecting too much impermiability from what had aalways looked like a very fragile base material...

PVC bases were heavy, but they worked!

Robert Suanders may not be in the Hilleberg price bracket, but they are supposed to be a good quality brand, so perhaps I've been unlucky (or lucky, depending how you look at it: never a really heavy night of rain until recently).

I have some pointers I plan to implement, and hopefully it'll work because I'd hate to chuck a tent that is otherwise really nicely made!
:funmeterno:

I'm amazed that you've got no response from Robert Saunders. They're a long established name with a reputation, not one of the "pile em high, sell em cheap" far eastern copy mall imports.

This is a quote from their website - "Our policy is not to have a dissatisfied customer"
On the same page they offer a repair service.
Maybe your email just got lost in the system - give them the benefit of the doubt and contact them again. It might just be down to whoever happens to read it.

I'm amazed, mine's now worn out, never a problem but it is old, things change, manufacturers get a good name then perhaps take advantage of it and let things slip. I'm sorry to hear it and think I'll be looking elsewhere for a replacement.
I've been in an exposed site in Scotland with rain driving horizontal for the best part of 24hrs, no leaks just a enormous bloody racket!

I have spoken to them on the phone in the past and, TBH, they were really condescending and "oh, what the hell do you want?" to the point that I almost told the speaker to "F-right off" at one point. Considering they'd got just under £300, I think humouring even what they may feel is a stupid question is not too much to ask for.

I agree that small specialists need to make sure those they sell to are happy as word of mouth goes a long way for the small business, but I think the quote above, in my experience, is probably translated as "we want people to be happy with our tent" which I was, rather than "we will be happy to help you if you have problems with our tents".

In any case, they would not last long if they wrote:
"our tents are very good, if anything goes wrong or is unclear to you, the buyer, then you are obviously an idiot..." even if that was the tone they actually used...

My £9.99 from the supermarket dome tent that can be erected without pegs is still serving me well after seven years.
As for after sales service, not been needed, probably would just buy another, it would be cheaper than a spray can of leak sealer.

Perhaps I have been lucky ??

Does anyone make a sat nav that actually works ???
Not too impressed with my Primus Omni fuel stove. may just take my 12 year old Camping Gaz stove with me or get a real 1950's primus stove.
Panasonic TZ7 camera is ace.

Well, I cut the footprint down to size, I sprayed the inside and outside of the ground sheet with the Nikwax spray and went camping for a night in the Estonian woods, enjoying their pleasant state campsites.

It rained all night!!!

No leakage that I could tell, but I did find a moist patch at my feet so that even my sleeping bag was damp.

But I could not find the source: the footprint was dry underneath, so perhaps it was condensation that dripped down from the flysheet, onto the tent, and then in: don't know.
However I can live with that even if I'm not thrilled.

Still no answer from the manufacturer despite a turse email following up the first: clueless as far as customer services are concerned...:nono:

Do you tend to thrash around when you sleep? Could it be that you are tossing and turning and your feet are pushing the inner tent against the fly, causing the condensation to soak onto the sleeping bag?

Thrashing around!!

I have an image of me doing a Houdini straight-jacket escape impression in my sleep!!

I probably do move around a fair bit, but maybe not enough to produce the situation you describe and it would not explain the clammy groundsheet floor...

I'm erring toward condensation dripping because on some muggy nights I have been woken by a drop of water right in the eye from one of the tent seams above me and I can often seen droplets nestling on the tent roof above me in the morning...

It may be that this tent does not ventilate well. Even on the driest night, the inside of the flysheet is often damp...

My groundsheet in my old tent was leaking (I did burn a few holes in it, on some winterexpeditions) and I tried several things to waterproof it, but to no avail), so, at a sale, I bought a footprint, for a larger tent, and had a parachute repair shop change the whole bottom of my innertent, so now its completely new and watertight.

Footprint 10$
repair 200$

but the tent was 500$ from new.

Poul

chuk it - and get a Hilleberg- last u a lonnnngggg time

I hope it would last a little longer than the bank loan needed to buy it!!

As much as I hate using a footprint it actually saved us twice when the old tent broke in Scotland before we could find a new one. The groundsheet was leaking and for the life of me I couldn't find out why. It all seemed perfect but was completely wet in the morning. Not so with the footprint that we didn't even bother cutting in shape - we just folded it so it fit right underneath the inner tent. After we did find a new one (Coleman Avior X3, very light but unfortunately also very small) we kept using the footprint just in case.

However, I've had that same experience with the new tent as you, Warthog - even on dry nights everything is damp or even wet in the morning, from sleeping bag to the inside of the fly sheet. Gets even worse when it's raining and starts to drip occasionaly. Might be insufficient ventilation

Same experience with my 2 old Vangos a Micro 2 and a Micro 3. The groundsheets become porous with age and wick the water up through under the thermorest.

My solution has been to make a footprint from the very cheap closed cell foam used as underlay for modern wood laminate flooring, a big roll can be purchased from a builders merchant for a couple of quid. It's waterproof and makes the tent a good few degrees warmer, nice when you have a tendency to slide off the mat in the night. It weighs nothing (well very little) but is more bulky than the standard footprint. :clap:

+1 Hilleberg :thumbup1:

I've nothing but good things to say about Hilleberg. Bought one years ago on my Dad's recommendation (serial hardcore lightweight camping nutter). He and my brother gave his tent a lot of heavy use and the groundsheet layers seemed to separate and peel. He sent it back to Hilleberg who replaced it and sent it back for free. I've bought a Hilleberg footprint and had no problems. Had a close call in the Rockies in an unexpected snow storm a couple of years back and it got us right out of the ****. I'll buy nothing else.

BTW, my first post, nice to be here and I'm finding the forum tremendously useful. Thanks to everyone.

Welcome Tim! See you at the Ripley meet in June :)

Guys,

A little different idea.
Carry a square tarp type ground sheet a little bigger than your tent. In a jam it makes a pannier top(lost at speed), or a sun shade in the desert(strung over the bike), and a shade for mechanic's work anytime.

Can be folded to any size under the tent, takes no time at all.

Can be slung over your tent for extra protection or sun protection.

Don't even think about Alaska and the Yukon without some protection for the tent floor.

On rainy nights on soft ground you can put it inside the tent as a barrier.

It's your rain cape around camp.

Or a wrap for your sleeping bag on a cold night.

On and on.
bill