Did You Guys Actually Enjoy Central America ???
 

OK, bear with me on this one, because it's a bit of a rambling question that, I suspect, will only provide subjective answers...

Having come up from Ushuaia we now find ourselves in Ecuador with 2 months remaining before we have to be back at work. Our original plan was to head to New York and ship back to the UK from there (I will not sell the bike, despite the obvious cost saving). I figure 2 months to get from Ecuador to New York would mean going at a fairly good clip - possible, definitely, just not with a lot of time to spare.

Another traveler we met who was heading south suggested that we could fly the bike from Bogota to Miami, which would give us plenty of time to explore Ecuador and Colombia (two countries we really want to see) and then allow us time to explore the US a little more than we had originally planned and spend time in the National Parks, maybe even ride coast to coast, which would be cool.

For various reasons (most of which are probably unfounded!) my wife and I just aren't excited about riding through Central America. I would like to see parts of Mexico (Baja, Copper Canyon), but that's about it. I hate corruption, corrupt cops and shitty border crossings (a speeding ticket puts me in a foul mood for days!).

I'm not so ignorant or prejudiced that I can't appreciate that the central american countries must surely be wonderful and have wonderful people, but my concern is that due to time constraints we'd have to stick mostly to the PanAm and not be able to explore these countries and get a good appreciation of them, thereby balancing out the negative experience of the border and cop hassles that we would surely come across.

There's a part of me that says 'come on fella, it will be an experience to go through that part of the world', but there's another side that thinks 'why put yourself through the hassle - this is meant to be fun' (this is our honeymoon after all!).

I know going straight to America isn't exactly adventurous, especially considering the company I'm in here on the HUBB, but as a new rider riding two up on dirt roads, sand dunes, through rivers and landslides, I feel as if I've had a fair amount of adventure already, and I don't want to spoil a fantastic experience by rushing through a string of countries just to get home. Additionally, I don't anticipate ever being able to have the opportunity to ride coast to coast across America again in my lifetime, so this has a certain draw for me.

Thoughts very much appreciated from those that have been there and done it - if you had your time again would you rather spend it in Ecuador, Colombia and America, or was CA the highlight of your trip?

I loved Mexico and Central America, and when I had to make a choice similar to yours on my return north, I Stahlratted the Gap and rode the rest of the way home. I've been on a bike to all but Belize at least twice, and I'm not sick of it yet. The corruption isn't really that bad (unless you're unlucky and/or practically beg for it, as many riders do), and you can also avoid the worst of it if you want.

On the other hand, I do seem to have a high tolerance for stuff that really irritates some folks, and I am often thoroughly amused by stuff which might make you crazy.

FWIW when weighing your options: You can ride Central America to the US border in two weeks moving steadily but not obsessively. Four weeks allows a fair bit of sightseeing, but you still need to keep thinking about your schedule. Add Colombia and Ecuador and you're more or less out of time.

But riding coast to coast, as you claim you'd like to do.....hmmmm. Starting from Miami? Don't forget you'll have to ride back again if leaving from New York. Don't forget it'll still be winter throughout much of the country, particularly in areas which are actually spectacularly beautiful and contain much of what's worth riding.....twice. You'll be limited to the southern tier, and even so you might get kind've chilly from time to time. April is probably a fine time to visit south of the Mason Dixon line, but in the mountains of the west plus anywhere north of, say, Kansas....not so good, sometimes. The last thing you want is to be a week from your departure date when you run into a blizzard in Wyoming; this has happened to me during May.

Just one more thought: if you're going to skip Central America, ship the bike and yourselves from Colombia to LA, not Miami, then ride across. If you've got an extra couple of weeks, go to Venezuela first or drop down to Copper Canyon from Arizona along the way. That way you'll see some of the American southwest during a good time of year, but still be able to shoot across to the east coast and up to New York without risking much more than cold, wind and rain enroute.

Hope that helps.

Mark

Wow, what a question.

I'm a yank who spent all of 2008 going from SF to Panama and back (RR linked in my sig). I've also been to Alaska and back. I can't judge relative to South America, but I can tell you this:

* Nothing ruins a trip like being in a hurry.

* While I really enjoyed Central America, there is not a single moment I've ever spent on a motorcycle that has come within 10% of the joy I have had riding in Mexico. That country is a motorcycle *paradise*, especially if you stay off the highways. The variety in peoples, cultures, geography, food, drink, architecture... beaches, deserts, jungles, mountains, cities... I really can't rave enough. And it's cheap.

My advice, if you have the $$: Cancel any other plans and fly straight to southern Mexico. Spend all two months there. Forget the US, by comparison it's BORING BORING BORING.

My further advice: Sell the house. Sell the car. Sell the kids. Find someone else. Forget it! I'm never coming back. Forget it!

Jeff

Thanks, Mark.
Helpful as always. I didn't know Bogota - LA was an option. That makes infinitely more sense. And yes, a coast to coast route would have to take in the southern states only during that time of year, so missing Yellowstone, but still getting to see zion, moab etc. Hell, we may even go to Disney Land :innocent:

Panama to USA border possible in 2 weeks? That's food for thought.

Bugger. I hate indecision.

Jeff's right, of course: there's a half a lifetime of fine riding in Mexico.

Start talking to Mike at Casablanca Hostel in Cali now so that shipping doesn't eat up too much of your available time. Anything is possible: it just depends on the price and how much trouble it takes to make it happen.

But hey, you hate indecision and you hate corrupt cops: what's left?

Mark

OK, I'm sold - I'm off to Mexico!
Time is the killer for me. I need to look at your (and others) blogs to see what people can achieve in a certain amount of time and whether it was enjoyable. Thanks for the response.

Sell the house? Two of the most evil words contained in the English language my friend: 'Negative' and 'Equity'. Nothing else to sell, except maybe the wife.....


Edit:

F*ck it. I'm gonna get me some mangoes.

yes what a question indeed. One with no real wrong answer. Having just returned to the US from Honduras, I can say that CA and Mex are outstanding rides! Do not worry about what you hear on the news. I never had an issue of note. It depends, for me, what you are looking for. If it is 'riding', the US provides everything you can find anywhere in the world; huge paved highways, small winding roads through the mountains, offroad, mud, gravel, dunes, twisties, rain forests, high deserts, desert floors, huge cities, small towns, etc etc, I don't think there is anything you can't find here on a coast to coast. that being said, the US is a different culture than CA or Mex. But possibly after your first two months in SA it is time for a change anyway. A coast to coast ride across the US can be remarkable, however, a large part of the incredible, the OR and WA coast and mountain passes, the CO mountains, UT and its national parks, yellowstone, Beartooth pass, the Blackhills, the grand Canyon, glacier etc etc, out west may not be accessible at this time of year due to the weather. And in my opinion, having to ride from LA through AZ, and ugh(texas) is not anywhere near my top 20 ways across the country unless you just want to say you did it. So given the time of year, I say enjoy CA, and make sure you save at least a month to get a good feel Mexico, it is a lovely country, with outstanding riding and the people are wonderful.

I'm going to break the trend here with my personal opinion.

I didn't like Central America, and we gave it a fair chance doing mixed back roads and Panam riding. To me when riding in CA I felt like I was in a broken loop: volcano, beach, colonial city, jungle, volcano, beach .... I was actually starting to get sick of our Latin America trip until we arrived in SA (Colombia) and it was like a breath of fresh air. I have enjoyed South America a million times more than CA and if I were to do this trip again I would ship myself and bike straight to SA.

That's my 2 cents. :scooter:

What a Question...
 

Obviously everyone has their own likes and dislikes.
Personally I loved Central America and its diversities- each of those small countries has a very distinct character and Guatemala was my favourite, the colours and the ambience of the indigenous settlemenst and markets, Tikal - the Mayan ruins deep in the jungle are phenomenal.:D
The diving and snorkelling in Honduras, camping on the beach with the turtles surfing right in next to us in Nicaragua, Costa Rica with its amazing cloud forests, Panama and its bizarre contrasts.
If I was you, I wouldn't miss out on these countries to see the States but then I prefer less-developed countries. I'll quickly add that I've had a great time travelling in the States and Canada as well, but they are a different tarvelling experience.

The countries in Central America are changing all the time, if you want to see them how they are now and before further development then head that way.
Yes, there are sometimes delays at the borders, but if you turn up with the expectation it may take a while and be prepared for it (believe me there are far worse border crossings in the world), I usually find I get through a lot more quickly than I expect.
A couple of words of caution, keep your shipping as simple as possible, if you are now on a time limit and want to make the most of yoru time, use routes that others have used before you - otherwise you can get delayed (speaking from personal experience).
Also - Mexico, which I also like is actually quite a big country and can take longer to travel through than you expect.

Marinomi - "volcano, beach, colonial city, jungle, volcano, beach"
I'm not sure what exactly you were expecting in CA if not those things plus a hundred other things?
true there isn't the majesty and the heights of the Andes that you get in SA, but I found each CA country has a lot to offer and wouldn't choose to miss out this whole section of a continent.

make sure you let us know what choice you make Garmei? And how the trip goes. Whatever you choose, ride safe and have a great journey.

Just in case there's any confusion - Mexicanos are quick to point out that Mexico is part of North America, not Central America.

Thank you all for your informed comments. It certainly helps decision making and it's also a bloody interesting read! I'm curious, however, why people have exclaimed 'what a question!' Is this because it's a difficult one to answer, or is it just a no brainer for most people to go ride in this region? Don't be stupid man - go ride!' Anyways....

The responses here seem largely to reflect CA and Mexico in a positive light. The opinions of travelers we've meet who are heading south seem to be more divided on the subject. We're two up, and so this decision really has to be made by both of us and for ourselves, and I won't bore you with our internal dilemmas too much!. But your experiences help, so please keep 'em coming.

At the moment we're torn between flying to LA (which would allow us time to go into Mexico) or just staying in SA and having enough time explore all of Ecuador, Colombia and maybe Venezuela too.

Flying to LA may be prohibitively expensive. Hmmmm....

In short, YES.

We took 3.5 months to get from Toronto to Panama, but could have sent longer.

My advice, fly to Panama City (quicker than boat), shoot through Panama and Costa Rica, then enjoy Nicurgua/A small bit of Honduras/ El Salvador.

Give Guatemala a bit of time, then get into Mexico.

Don't worry about tales of corrupt cops etc, we have had no issues. Just do not give them an excuse :-).

At borders, *DO NOT USE* Helper, it will cost you more in time and money.

Mexico rocks, loved it.

I disagree with the US being boring, but it i worth trip in it own right.

Thoroughly enjoyed Central America and Mexico. My favourite countries were Nicaragua, Guatemala and southern Mexico. The only thing that really bugged me were the topes in Mexico. Trip report and pics: Round the World TBSdotCom

cheers
Chris

It's a dilema - you have enough time to have fun, but not enough time to really thoroughly explore.

Ah... if you don't *need* to get to NY, I'd have to honestly say - stay in SA and spend your two months exploring. I've heard wonderful things about Ecuador and especially Columbia.

I prefer depth rather than breadth (which is why I never made it south of the Darien), and two months sounds about right for three countries - especially two-up (on a 950?).

Put it this way... you're going to add a considerable amount of expense, frustration, and delay by adding an extra flight (either across the gap or farther north). Then you'll be on a schedule to get to your final destination - maybe not in a huge hurry (depending on what's left of your two months after shipping), but the limit will force you to skip places you might otherwise have chosen to go.

Save the US, Mexico, & Central America for next year. But seriously - come back, because you really will be missing out.

Jeff

P.S. If you're on a 950 you can ignore the topes :tt2:

I thought they were jumps! Are they meant to slow you down ?:laugh:

Thanks mate, excellent advice

Indecision
 

Indecision used to be my problem. Now I'm not so sure.
:D
S

Decision Made
 

My wife and I shook hands (and snogged a little:-) on the following plan:

We're going to spend the remainder of our time in South America, making the most of Ecuador, Colombia and maybe Venezuela (need to do some reading up on that country before deciding).

The decision is based on

1. Money - we simply don't have enough to make it to the states without crippling ourselves financially and begging our retired parents for money - something we're not willing to do, even though they'd help us in a flash. It would be selfish of us to ask.

2. Time - We have definitely slowed down recently, but still feel like we missed stuff (inevitable, I suppose) and we don't want to feel pressured into riding big miles everyday.

Aren't time and money just the two biggest shitters on life?!

In the end, potential border crossing/corruption/police and safety hassles didn't figure in this decision - we have the will to go there, just not the time and money. Most of you loved CA and Mexico by the sounds of it. Maybe I'll make it there in the future, or maybe I'll do some trips around Europe and north Africa, who knows.

Anyway, decision made and now we can really enjoy what time we have left, and I can't wait.

Thanks folks. Hope that wasn't too boring; just wanted to let you know what we're doing and thank you for your input.

Sounds like a good plan.

In exchange for our assistance we demand pictures!

(of the trip, not the snogging :innocent:)

I was stationed in Central America, Brit Honduras & Belize loved both would suggest skip America, do the rest, with out rushing if you rush it, it will spoil it

FWIW - We left Machachi Ecuador on March 28, 2010, and arrived in Toronto, Canada, April 30, 2010. That period included 2 days in Bogota, another 2 in Panama (shipping delays related to the Easter Week)...and 2 days in Mississippi lost to a series of tornadoes!

We certainly weren't exploring the back roads on this leg, but we did enjoy a number of great rides and didn't feel like the devil was chasing us!

This Way UP!

Hiya Mate
 

Just noticed you live up the road from me, do you get down to the Dee for a brew or a coffee much on a sunday,

steve

Not recently.....

PM sent

You definitely do not want to ride across Central America in a hurry. I did that and the corruption will start to drive you mad. I swore that I would never ride through Central America again because of the borders. I have never had patience for that type of inefficiency.

I agree with some of the posters above who recommended only exploring 1-2 countries at a time.

From a cost standpoint, if you are wanting to ride South America it is less expensive to ship your bike there directly as opposed to riding it there through CA. The Darien Gap is a $1k hurdle that some riders overlook.

The best way to see South America is to buy another travelers bike in Argentina using photoshop for the paperwork:mchappy:, see a few countries, and then sell the bike for cheap and fly back.

I've always found dealing with corrupt officials to be about how fast you want to get moving again. If you're in a hurry you pay the money, if not you sit it out until they are bored and want rid of you.

Of the 100+ cops that have demanded money off me for some offence or another I have only paid twice and I have been bought lunch twice after a bit of a chat, so it balanced out pretty well.

Yeh, Central American borders can take a little while, but IMHO they are no slower than entering/leaving the United States (both land or air). With regard to corruption, I didn't encounter any. Maybe it was my attitude or possibly I was just lucky.

I believe that if you're fortunate enough to have the time and money (which the OPs say they don't have) then Central America and Mexico are well worth the visit in terms of great riding, sights to see and cultures to sample.
cheers
Chris

The Caribbean coast of Colombia is almost good enough in itself to avoid going in my opinion however the Stahlratte boat trip is pretty damn awesome.

What the hell is wrong with you ???? Bitching about corruption in CA and in the same minute suggesting to brake the law down here by photoshopping your papers !!?!?!?!?!?!?
Did it ever come to your mind that part of the corruption happens thanks to guys like you who think that they can do whatever they want down here and get away with it ???
Would you ever do the same shit back home ???
If you would have more RESPECT for the countries you visit , you probably would run into less problems !!

About CA border corruption. Sure, its there, in some countries, depending on the person doing your paperwork. I didnt have any problems other than a couple of customs guys that just had bug up their ass, just like some of these self important customs people do when you try to come back to the States. You know, the Barney Fife types.

I kind of like going through the CA borders. They are really interesting places full of interesting people living and working there. Its worth your while to talk to some of these folks and learn about what they do and how the system works. And FWIW, I always hire a helper. There are A lot of folks on here that get their panties in a wad and dont want to pay a guy 5 bucks to run the paperwork.

I dont see the big deal. I dont hand the guys my stuff, I just have them lead me around while I handle the paperwork and copies so there is no funny business. I always enjoy talking to these guys and 5 bucks is not going break your bank. But, maybe I'm weird that way. It has always gone very smoothly for me when I used a helper.

Be careful photoshoping bike paperwork. In Honduras, they wanted to see my title. I kept the original title well hidden as I didnt want it held hostage or taken from me, and showed the customs gal a very, very good copy, trying to pass it off as the original. She held it up to the light and said, "no, this is a copy, I need to the see the original with the watermark on it."

The lesson being....always do color photocopies and photoshop work on watermarked paper! Simple.

Although Crashmaster is not saying this directly, I'll point out that there is a whole class of riders who find Central America intolerable for corruption, police stops, border hassles and the like. Wherever they go, bad stuff is happening to them. There is an entirely separate group which consistently has little or no problem with the same issues in the same places. Crashmaster is one of the latter (as am I). Mostly it's about your attitude before, during and after.

Note that I said "mostly." Sometimes bad days happen no matter what.

Attitude isn't everything, but it sure does make a lot of stuff tolerable, even fun--and when it's not, at least you've slanted the odds in your favor.

enjoy,

Mark

Guatemala is blinking brilliant, especially if you try and keep off the beer with the chicken on the bottle. I found Honduras to be the only CA country with border/cop hassles, and they weren't that bad really.

Oh yeah - I got stopped (quite rightly) for speeding in Panama - no fine as he couldn't figure out my UK reg. Apart from that, no trouble anywhere except Hon (where I smiled, forgot how to speak Spanish and eventually got waved on after 15 minutes). Nicaragua is ace as well.

And Pockethead is correct about the Stahlratte... I think... he made me drink so much rum during the boat trip that I have to rely on photos to be sure.

I never had a problem either, with cops boarders or otherwise. Well one extortion attempt which scared me sooo much I forgot every word of spanish I ever new. bier Interesting about the Title in Honduras. That was the longest crossing for me, copias copies :) asked to see the bike, etc etc, but never asked for the title. All I had was a copy so maybe I was lucky. He also cut me some slack when I gave one of the original docs to the bank and only had the 3 copies for him. Possibly it was the fact I had been there two hours and the sweat was dripping off my nose, he felt sorry. As an interesting note, my spanish sucks, and that seemed to help somewhat at the crossings. Seemed the more questions I was able to answer the more questions they asked me.

good idea. Unfortunately, she used a reference book that had pictures of titles from every state and it showed what to look for to determine if it was an original.

Haha, perhaps I was just trying to liquor you up so I could land another Hitler mustache once you had gone to bed?

How many copies of stuff do you need? I'm in Mexico right now, I've got one copy each of passport, title, and that's all I've got actually.

This is actually kind've scary. A lot of people don't bring titles, and a lot of localities don't even issue them. Plus there are all those who travel on forged documents (although you didn't hear it from me).

I still don't understand why some people never seem to need to present a title (me), or why others often do. I thought we'd more or less settled on a difference in terminology as the explanation, but I suppose not.

To the previous poster, whenever you need copies there'll be someone nearby with a copying machine ready to serve you. Whenever I try to get ahead of the curve I end up with a stack of crumpled, mangled, rain-spotted copies which no one will accept anyway. It's not worth worrying much about.

Mark

Funny about the copies, I have been there, done that. More times that I should have. I'm a slow learner sometimes.

Before my trip, everyone told me that I would not need a title. The first time I had to have it was at the El Amatillo crossing in Honduras. I never offer to show my title and would not show it just to see if I really needed it or not. I can say for sure at El Amatillo, I needed it. Maybe she was very disappointed that I had it because then she couldnt hit me up for a mordida? Who knows.

I needed it twice entering Argentina, once in Chile, and also at Foz do Iguaçu in Brasil.


Maybe I could have talked my out of needing it a couple of times, (except for in Honduras) but it became too easy just to bust out the title and be on my way.

I carry a few titles BTW, all of them from the state and legit, but only one is good for selling the vehicle as the others were, "lost."

UK title/registration doc/logbook & licence
 

Colour photocopies of a UK reg doc (title) were all I ever had to show from Argentina to Mexico. (I kept the original in a waterproof envelope thing).

Colour laminated copies of my UK driving licence were all I had to show everywhere except one Central American border (can't remember which), and once in Santa Barbara CA, where I was stopped for having a UK plate - the cop had never seen one before, but managed to spot that my licence was a copy. So I dug out the original from the waterproof hideaway.

(Your experience may include jail time etc etc...)

Hello again,

Well, I can now answer my own question. Since my last post I told my family our plans to cut short our trip and they said that they'd cover our transport home from the US. A call to my boss bought me two extra weeks leave and so now I write this post just south of Nogales, Mexico and about to enter the US tomorrow.

Central America was brilliant. Out of necessity we only saw a couple of 'highlights' in each country and we missed out El Salvador and Belize altogether, but we got a good taste for each country we visited. Likewise, we gunned it through Mexico, especially the northern half (quotas...), but we got a taste, which is better than nothing.

All in, we made it from Panama to the US in 22 days. We had only 3 non riding days, but still saw a fair bit - we just woke up early each day, rode a few hundred KMs to somewhere we liked, then either stayed there, or if there was time, just kept going until it got dark.

I'm very glad we did it and we were pleasantly surprised with the borders and the cops. We were stopped only once in CA for a routine paperwork check. A few more times in Mexico, but again just for papers - nothing underhand. The borders were a breeze; we spent no more than 2 hours at a single border and did not use helpers. This even with us crossing at every hour of the day - lunch time, mid afternoon and the end of the day. We don't know why other people have reported problems. We only guess that it is because of a complete lack of any Spanish or a complete inability to follow a very simple process.

Anyways, all's good. If anyone else faces a similar quandary and reads this - go for it!

Cheers
G

Good to hear you're having a good time. Other reasons might be because they have "heard" of alleged problems (5th hand a.k.a Chinese whispers) or like telling "horror stories" because they think it makes them sound important or have seen it on Fox News.

The HUBB is a good place for finding out real/accurate information.

Please keep on sharing with us.
Chris

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