soft is bigger than you think
 

Not sure I posted this already but here is a good place to repeat it.

I've divined that in fact that as long as they are not cubes, measuring 'box shaped' fabric panniers simply by l x w x h is flawed.

For example my Magadan (posted earlier) comes in at about 24L using this method, but if you fill it with water it will take 40 litres clipped in, rolled up and ready to mount (assuming you can pick it up).

40L might be an unachievable capacity in the real world of moto packing - but you can sure get more than 24L in there. So knowing that, that comparison table of mine earlier needs looking at again - although relative capacities brand to brand still measure up.
And using these dimensions is especially invalid when comparing with rigid boxes which do have a fixed l x h x w.

Full story here: Exactly how big is soft baggage? | Adventure Motorcycling Handbook

Ch

http://adventuremotorcyclinghandbook...ter1.jpg?w=666

Interesting about the volumes there Chris, I would have lost count of the 1 litre jugs at 17 and had to start again :cool4:


Over here in North America, Happy Trail has had their Mojave soft bags out for a while, they use an aluminium back and mounting hardware from the hard cases so they mount onto the pannier frames they sell and they have roll top closure similar to an Ortlieb:

Additional Images - Adventure-Proven Motorcycle Gear and Aluminum Panniers

I love the mounting system, I can pull off my Ali boxes and mount a set of these on in a couple of minutes, they don't cover the seat and tail of the bike with straps and as they mount onto a dedicated luggage rack they do not get anywhere near a hot exhaust.

A friend of mine has a set, but once again the volume is too small, they are rated at 28 L each, but on stuffing gear into (spares, sleeping bag, usual overlanding gear) them they feel more like 25 L, Happy Trail has missed the boat by making the roll top way too short and tapering in the sides towards the bottom, they need another 8-10 inches of material to roll to increase the volume, square sides and the addition of some external pockets like the Magadans

If they redesigned them to be ~35 litres with pockets then they would be top of my list.

Backing plate is a good idea Grif. My Mags are currently set up like that; being semi-permanently attached to a separate plate which slots into points on the bike frame. Al Jesse is calling it a 'MonoArm' and means bags can be regular throwovers or even a hard case. Not quite as slick to attach as yours and a bit heavy atm, but it's only a prototype. In places I just leave the bags attached and pull out the liners to take inside.

Having actually used my Mags like this for a couple of weeks - latest episode here - as expected they answer all my travelling needs.

Ch

Wow, where is that?

Sorry for the hijack

Cirque du Jaffar (Cake), Morocco: Morocco TBSdotCom

Thanks Chris,

Thats a very useful demonstration.

I had always filled my Magadan bags with about 35 litres of stuff per bag, but noticed due to questions regarding dimensions allegedly not adding up, AS had changed their website volume back to 24 litres. I have just suggested to them to put 24-35 litres on the site to cover all bases, as 24 litres is totally non-indicative of how much they carry in the real world, and therefore, in reality, a meaningless and misleading number.

:thumbup1:

Has anyone out there used the Kriega Overland 60 in anger yet?

I used them on a Morocco trip last year, about 2500 miles, lots of off road. I had them mounted to Touratech racks on a KTM 690R. They look really tidy on the bike, they're well out of the way, and stay firmly in place (except when they don't...)

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7416/9...85378664_b.jpg

Since we weren't camping, no problems with bigger items. I kept one bag almost empty, and used this for stuffing my jacket and other stuff in for hot days, and for packing food and drink. Tools were in the 15l pack on the back.
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3834/9...142f603d_b.jpg

They were neater in use than the giant loop that Mrs Berin used on her 690.
I found the 4x15 configuration worked well, as it's easy to "compartmentalise" your stuff. In use , while riding the bike, they're very good, I didn't notice that they are there at all, they are completely waterproof, there's nothing on the seat so I could move about on the bike fine, and no problems with re-fuelling, as the rear fuel cap on the 690 was clear of obstruction.

But, there were some issues. The 15l packs mount to the CDPE platform very securely - no problems here. But, the platform mounts to the racks with 4 quick release cam buckles, and on the 690 at least 2 of these on each side don't have sufficient clearance to operate the cams correctly. On pre-trip testing, 2 of the clamps fell off - when I called Kriega, they were aware of this and sent me a handful of new buckles as spares.What this means is that the quick-release system isn't, it takes quite a bit of fiddling about to set the cam buckles and then had-tighten the fittings. I found these needed to be checked several times during the day, as they worked loose, and I did lose 2 fittings that fell off after some washboard tracks and were replaced from my stock of spares.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7320/9...b9e5745d_b.jpghttp://farm4.staticflickr.com/3792/9...2be73741_c.jpg


At the end of the day the Giant Loop showed it's advantage, as we were taking kit off the bike to take to our digs for the night. I had a 10 minute fiddle to take the platforms of the rack, and carrying the kit in wasn't easy, no handholds, and again I had to be careful the cam fittings didn't fall off as I was carrying the panniers in. The GL, by comparison, is a couple of straps and easily carried over the should leaving hands free.

I called Kriega when I got back, and they sent me some modified fixings, which are basically the same fixings but with a bolt in place of the cam buckle. I haven't tried this yet.

I can modify the platforms to add some carry straps, but the fiddling about to get them on and off is tedious and fiddly, and one of the reasons I went for these in the first place is for reducing the faffing abut with straps and cables and bungees that comes along with most soft luggage

Hi Chris. You reckon you would be able to do that when mounted? That would result in a more realistic volume.

As Walter alluded to the shape of the bag and what you put in it is what really matters. It doesn't make sense to me that lots of 'experts' still claim the clothes rolled method in a square suitcase is most efficient. There's me thinking everyone did the same toddler puzzles. :blushing:

Still interesting to know for some comparison at least.

Get 40L in there? Almost certainly not. I did say "... an unachievable capacity in the real world of moto packing - but you can sure get more than 24L in there."

It was just a an interesting demonstration to show that unlike a rigid pannier, a [non cube] box-shaped bag's max potential volume is substantially more than its LxWxH.

Ch

Nah, do the measurement for the comparison I meant.

Oh sorry. Well with water might be tricky and too heavy, but perhaps the beans method that GL mention, or some similar, non-compressible but lighter-than-water medium which you can measure by the jug load. Maybe even inflate an air bag and try and measure that.

Prior to this summer I owned a GL. Over the summer I borrowed a mate's BMW XC with Magadans in Siberia (and rode to Magadan:mchappy:) I have purchased the Magadan bags off said mate (and the bike too...:blushing:). I'll soon be selling the GL.

Both are sturdy and rugged.

However: I prefer the ease of top loading/accessing kit on the side of the trail. I found trying to close the GL on the roadside impossible and had to remove it and then reattach. The biggest downside to the GL is their propensity to leak, despite liberal use of seam-sealant. The Magadans don't leak. The weather in Siberia this summer was horrendous and there were plenty of rivers to cross and not a bridge in sight.

I feel if you're away for the weekend, the the GL is ok. But for longer trips, even just a week, the GL is a pita to use.

Chris,

You could try something called vermiculite, it's the beans you find in garden centres under the plants. Very light, very even size and not that expensive.

Giant Loop revised Coyote Saddlebag volume
 

We recently re-measured the volume of the Giant Loop Coyote Saddlebag using our bean count method. The result is 39+ liters = 9+ liters more than claimed.beer

Also, Giant Loop has added a number of 100% waterproof options in the past year or so . . . as well as the Siskiyou Panniers, a convenient top-loading design being ridden around the world by Noah Horak right now.:thumbup1:

Giant Loop - Fuel Fill Access on KTM 690 Enduro
 

Here's an easy-access option for the KTM 690 Enduro.