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Metal Mules prices go up AGAIN!!
I'm looking to buy a set of panniers in time for some trips in the summer and i was thinking of a nice set of MM's. i saw them at the NEC show in novemeber and was really impressed with them. they were substantially more expensive than TT and the rest, but they were much better as well. i was quite happy to pay £750-800 for them and when they put their prices up in the new year, i would have also paid the £900 they were asking. but i've just been on their website and a set of two panniers and a rack is now a breathtaking £1211.99.
sorry MM, but i'm not paying that. i don't care how good your panniers are. i could just be being a tad cynical, but i can't get over the feeling that they are now taking advantage of the excellent reputation they have and are fleecing overlanders for as much as they can get away with. i know they're the best out there, but at the end of the day, they are essentially still a big aluminium box. if i had a set of panniers custom built as one offs i'd expect to pay this, but all the MM parts will be batch produced at least, and i can't believe that the production costs for a pannier can be more than £100-150 at most. £500 for one aluminium box, even with a fancy locking system is just a plain rip-off. |
Supply Vs Demand
The iron rule of supply and demand should sort that out: if no one demands them the price will reduce.
But yes, you could go through a few sets of other products for that price, probably with a bit of spare cash in your pocket for the ever-rising cost of fuel, for instance. You could also get a half decent second bike for that money! |
well quite. Mrs UTS is looking to do her DAS before october and the £700 difference in cost between MM and most others would just nicely cover that.
as far as supply and demand goes, unfortunately i think there will be still be plenty of people who will buy the best whatever the cost. i'd be very interested to know what MM's overheads were on each set... |
It's supply and demand. I'm guessing MM have now reached a point where they can sell all they make. You either take the responsibility of hiring more people/buying new equipment, or raise the price. Metal stock prices are also insane right now and petrol prices/economy issues might well kill the travel market, so I can understand the MM business decision.
I fitted the ultimate metal pannier for not much more than that though. I think it's something like 200 litres (Ural sidecar)! Having used soft luggage briefly a few years back while waiting for MM to complete the Bonneville rack design, I'd go this route again on a solo, probably with a cheap metal/plastic top box for a bit of security. Andy |
I have been looking at getting some metal panniers for my upcoming trip to egypt later this year , and i have just checked out the metal mule site . for a left and a right pannier plus mounting racks for my 650 v strom . £1348.98 !!!!!!! i have bought decent bikes for less than that ! . call me a tight git , but there is no way i would pay that for a set of metal boxes . i will probably end up spending about £500.00 for a set of panniers , no more . i truly think that they are in real danger of pricing themselves right out of the market .
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Sorry Rip Off!!
Hi All,
Ive priced up a set for my 12GSA and the reply they got off me for a pair and mounting kit was "you cheeky *@?"!$&*'s :censored:. In English £1546 including vat :eek3:, i think id be shopping in south wales for my panniers plus a few other gadgets for that sort of money. R.n B. |
So, how much you´re looking at paying, if you get some other manufacturer´s set of panniers and racks? And I mean ones that can be compared to MM in any way.
The Mules are tough as hell, easy to take off / fit securely into the bike, and even the racks seem to be of the same quality. Not all aluminium panniers work as well as these. Yeah, it felt like a xxxxload of money, when I bought them, but they do the job so flawlessly, everything just works well, and they seem practically indestructible, too, so in general I´ve just enjoyed using them, and havent really worried about the money. |
Ttt
I know the £ is down the pan, but take a look at Bernd Tesch's stuff. Outstanding and you will NOT find a stronger rack system
Globetrott Zentrale Bernd Tesch 46 liter are quoted at €185 each and the rack is about €350. Mine survived being sideswiped, caving in the car door with the L/H box and the bike landing on the R/H box from about 70kph. Its a bit dented and scraped, but still servicable. Just a sugestion... MM & TT are NOT the only things out there. John |
I was interested in a set of these for my new KTM990. Was thinking along the lines of selling the new racks and panniers that came with the bike on ebay, adding a few hundred quid and getting the MM's.
Just checked their website and the cheeky feckers are now asking £1200 for a pair of panniers and racks.:eek3: A set of TT's and racks go for just over £500, so I reckon maybe £800 tops is a realistic price. Are people really willing to pay the sort of prices they're asking?? |
cost
I bought a set of mules in jan 07 for my ktm640 the cost then was 775 sterling. the cost on mules website is now 1279 sterling.
I looked at the price of the individual boxes and a pair of boxes with all the handles, tie down points and rubber feet cost just over 500 so how do they get the other 800 am i missing something? The boxes are good and i am very happy with them, but they are not worth twice the amount as the competition. I used to worry about people getting into my boxes and stealing things now i am worried about them pinching my boxes. IAIN |
You are right. MM seem to have decided to charge what they can get away with. My mate bought his for less than £800 a few years ago. Has alu suddenly gone up in price? Surely the price should go DOWN as they sell more units. If they follow the usual trend, in five years time their boxes will be £2000 and a pile of cr*p. As they are clearly aiming their boxes at the "1200GS, loadsamoney, never go further than my own backyard" market (a distinct group from the "1200GS and ride round the world" market, before anyone gets uppity! :) ) it is only a matter of time before they lose the plot and start adding blackberry brackets and making them out of 'aluminium effect' plastic.
I wouldn't buy 'em on principal, even if I did have the money. My Alpos boxes and Touratech racks came to less than £400. OK, so maybe they aren't as good, but they've done around 30,000 hard km and are still going strong. If they last another 30,000 then you'd have to do 180,000 km with a set of Metal Mules to get the same value. Hmm. Shame, but that's the price of the commercialisation of adventure biking. Matt :( |
Make Your Own
You could always try getting a set of seconds off of MM, not sure if it will reduce the cost that much but it might be something. Bit of a shock on price though, I bought mine just before Christmas and thought they were a bit steep even then.
The other thing to do is try to build your own, found this link on this site somewhere and if I had seen it before I had bought my MMs I would have certainly built my own instead. rtw.xtz660 - Home made aluminium boxes |
Pricing policy
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Similarly, the "overheads" are only of some relevance to the cost of production. Anyway, as my great grand pappy used to say, never buy the most expensive wine on the restaurants' wine menu. |
Maybe the greatly increased prices is to support the advert that often appears at the head of this same thread !
Great co-ordination. (Just leg pulling, Grant) |
Spoke to MM at NEC as they were upgrading the boxes from Series 1 to Series 2. Small changes like the way the Brackets are fitted, New Lid Seal and Improved Locking Mechanism.
The old Series 1 were about £800 for a full system, I was informed it would only be an increase of 20%. 50% + is crazy. Have they replaced the anodising with Gold Plate ?? |
Where's the problem?
Yeah, but the good thing is there's lot of alternatives for Alu boxes :)
Al Jesses Alpos Bernd Tesch Caja Sahel Därr Happy Trails ProjectVND (Vern) SW Motech (TraX) Touratech And the list goes a bit further on... For every budget and strenght type. All of them cheaper than the Metal Mules, some probably even better. Ride safe, Margus |
Enough complaining about Metal Mule prices, it's now time to vote with your wallet and buy alternatives :thumbup1:
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Make them
Made 2 sets and the bike rack, took 80 hours though. used stainless rivits, alloy bonding agent, and stainless hinges. the main problem is bending the 2 mm sheet alloy. used a 7 ton magnetic bender that worked fine for the main bends but the corner edges i had to clamp to a bench and bend with a metal clamp. if you hunt around they can be made very cheaply. hinges, latches etc from trade me (e-bay) the total cost for 4 side boxes and 2 top boxes and a frame for my XF 650 was $600 newzealand dollars. you must spend the time planning everything though as out of 2 alloy sheets 2400mm x 1200mm i had almost nothing left. good luck
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Have anyone tried these : RMS - Reinhard Guhr Rennsporttechnik - RMS Koffersystem KTM LC8
I've found some threads about RMS cases on a few Italian and Dutch moto forums, but didn't quite get a word of what was written. On the pics it seems that they are incredibly well made, and I've read that the owner worked for the formula one team some time ago |
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Looking through the site there are a series of photos of close-up detail, including joints, locks, seals, various options of edges/corners, colours (powder coating?), etc. All workmanship looks very good. Sadly my German is NIL but for BMW F650GS (Dakar shown?) a Babel Fish translation (reinterpreted by me) is:- The RMS - Luggage system for the small cylinder BMW fully developed and under the design criterion of the smallest overall width! The aluminum cases are widened underneath the exhaust mufflers to get optimum of use this otherwise dead space. The volume is approx. 38.0 litres for each case, the overall width of everything amounts to 880 mm, this is narrower than the handlebars. Each case had 4 strap-down brackets for light luggage. The mounting frame is of machine adapted precision steel tube that with the cases are removed are not visually disturbing and actually not recognizable. TIG welding only - since 1987. The frames are silver plastic-coated. A cross connection of the cases and all mounting elements are provided. For customers who bring their motorcycle we assembly free, otherwise approx. 20 €uro forwarding expenses. Price-899 Euro. £715 - fitted! Seems very good to me. I will be looking further into these and make a trip over there. No mention of the guage of metal used. Security is unclear. A key/lock for the lid, but I cannot see how the case is attached (or locked) to its frame. Seeing 'Wing-nuts' attaching them to the rear frame cross-link (or each other) is worrying if that is a security mounting rather than just the bracing (the cross connection?). Much as I liked MMs, particularly after I went to visit them last autumn and spoke with the actual fabricator, there are limits. And the recent price hikes must be turning many potential customers away from them - including myself. Thanks again Frgich. |
No problem Tony glad that I helped in someway. Try to e-mail Roger, and ask exactly what would you like to know. I've send an e-mail and they answered the next day, which I like very much. I also plan for the next year to buy these cases, and will go to Germany and make a small trip-the place is near the Frakfurt just for the info.
The thickness of the alu used to make the cases is 2 mm, so they must be very tough. The way the cases are attached and secured to the mounting frame is a question though, so it's best to e-mail them directly and ask them to send you some detailed pics of the set-up. Maybe I should open a thread for these cases alone so some more people can see them, and maybe someone on the HUBB have used them already, regards |
Eight months ago I invested in Metal Mule panniers and top box as opposed to bike-specific luggage so that I could move the luggage from bike to bike. Metal Mule were considerably more expensive than Zega and other alternatives at the time but I was prepared to pay a premium for powder coated luggage and it helped that Metal Mule is local to me.
I now want to mount my Metal Mule topbox and panniers on my new F650GS, but the prices have gone through the roof in the last four months: - top box rack was £91.99, now £118.99 an increase of £27.00 (30%) - pannier rails were £229.99, now £299.99, an increase of £70 (30%) I told Paul today that I was really aggrieved about this but he refuses to move on price and I feel like I'm over the barrel. So I started looking at alternatives. The list price of the BMW vario panniers, pannier rails and key-coded locks is £543 and most people will be able to get 10% off this making the price £488. So why on earth should I pay Metal Mule £300 for a set of pannier rails when I can get the whole caboodle from BMW for £488? I won't make the decision whilst I'm still fuming, I'll sleep on it first. Tim |
Worth it
Hi,
Metal mule may seem expensive, but they are tough! My right hand pannier took off the nose of a Toyota that pulled out in front of me in Malaysia. I then bashed it back into shape and refitted it no problem(even with 1 bracket wiped off and the others bent!) As they say" you pays your money and takes your choice". and there are worse choices than M/Mule! Cheers Del Boy |
i needed a set of panniers for my F650GS
new or second hand the costs of TT etc and getting them down to Ghana where im working made them a non starter. bought the fixings for zega boxes from TT. bought a sheet of 2mm aluminium, length of 19mm pipe, couple of latches, hinges etc and had the whole lot made here for less than 200Stg. not just as pretty as MM or TT, but once covered with a heap of stickers, they dont look bad at all. |
Just thought I'd add my bit to this thread.I have just spent £2100 buying a full set of mark 2 MMs,with anodising,lugs,feet,racks.I know it was exhorbitant,but I want a set of boxes that will last me years of touring,not fall apart in the middle of nowhere,will hopefully help save my bike if it goes over,and give me security for my things.I could afford them, as i wasn't on a budget when I started equiping my bike (thank you housing boom),and if they last,I think its money well spent.
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I just piced up a set of metal mule panniers. Two side panniers and a top box plus rack. Only paid £2,100... They were attached to a R07a Honda XRV 750 though. Bargain!:clap:
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Got to say at the end of the day no matter how fancy the selling and the looks these are just boxes for carrying luggage - are people losing sight of the ball a bit here - 1200 notes is a lot of dosh for carrying your kit (is your kit even worth £1200 that you carry). Tony P didn't you have the frames of your MM fail because of inherint design weakness in the frames when the going got rough ? - maybe this need to be highlighted to perspective buyers before they commit to large sums of money. I mean no detriment to MM and remember the owner being very pleasant and ammienable when he questioned me several years ago about my luggage I had used on a trip to Russia, but that said the price has to fit the application.
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the 'adventure touring' market is just that, a market. plenty will pay over the odds (just like the 12GSA), when something much simpler will do. $5 army bags will do the job fine, but yeah, don't give 'the look'... |
For really cheap alternatives
If you just want something to start with you could try either of these, teh first is soft luggage, teh second hard but you will have to make your own frames, but at £40 set worth thinking about.
Buy Oxford First Time Pannier Set. at Argos.co.uk - Your Online Shop for . or Find the cheapest Concorde Low-Level Plastic Cistern White by , best price, compare prices at MyVoucherCodes Shopping have fun. |
Find the cheapest Concorde Low-Level Plastic Cistern White by , best price, compare prices at MyVoucherCodes Shopping
I prefer the ones by Royal Doulton , they have more kudos . :lol2: |
give MM some grief/feedback
is it enough to vote with your wallet and buy another brand, without telling metal mule why you didnt buy theirs?
if everyone who asks MM for a quote or looks at the website and goes "WTF? no way im paying that!" then bothered to tell that to them, they might realise that A/theres a world recession and prices should go down, not up, and B/they might think about the lost trade, for every set of luggage they sell they let five sales go because of price. item priced too high, they sell less. profits mustn't go down so prices go up, so they sell less and prices must go up etc etc till the company goes bust. |
I think Tony is far too busy enjoying the sights and sights and sights of Vladivostok to reply here mate, but as his ridding buddy, who put all with all the fu@king delays caused by the crap design of the mounting system - not just in one way but a number of ways, I feel qualified to comment. I dont want to speak for Tony, but my observations are:
My problem with the stuff is not that its not the strongest toughest stuff on the market, but that at their prices they claim it is the best stuff out there. The frame had two glaring weaknesses which are a total compromise in the design, the purpose of which was clearly to save money. We had a chance to compare a Touratech F650 mounting frame in Irkutsk with Tony's F650 MM frame ... the Touratech one was clearly superior. The two most obvious faults which caused us endless delays and repairs before we had the frames reconstructed in Krasnoyarsk, was that ALL of the mounting points, where the frame attaches to the bike (yes every single one) feature crushed tubing. Its basic metalwork 101, you dont crush tube. Tube is pointless if it becomes two thin squashed flat bits of metal. The whole point of tube, its its strong when its round. All 6 points where the MM rack attached to the bike just took the tube and squashed it, then drilled the flattened tube. Its cheaper and easier that way. The Touratech frame had specific mounting plates of thick steel, welded onto the round tube to create the mounting points ... thats what it should be like. the 4 main load bearing attachments of the TT frame had these proper mounts, and just the two 'stabilisors' at the back of the TT frame had squashed steel tube joints. All 6 mounts on the MM frame were squashed tube. Fine if you are buying the cheapest frame onthe market, but I think you should expect better from the worlds most expensive luggage manufacturer. The second problem stemmed from the cheap and simple way they designed the front mount to attach to the inside of the pillion footrest. There is no way the system they have can possible endure months or even weeks on rough roads. Tony lost one attachment on the main trans-siberian highway. Tony had another made up of similar design to replace it, but within hours on proper off road conditions, both were gone. Again it was a cheap simple solution, fine if you are paying for a cheap simple solution, but not fine when you are paying the big bux just for a luggage frame. Tony has been OK about it, but if it was me, I would have been livid. Tony had a pair of proper mounts built up by a metal worker in Krasnoyarsk, and had the crushed tube reinforced with plate steel welded generously, and since then have done over 5000 miles, 4000+ on dirt, and no further problems. We would have had no problems from the start if these cheapo shortcuts had not been taken in the original making of the rack. A final comment that may be useful for the likes of Tim above, is that Tony successfully fitted his box onto the Touratech rack while we were doing all the comparing in Irkutsk. The loop is the same size. Tony has in mind, if his existing frame causes any more problems, that he will just get a Touratech frame and keep the boxes. Quote:
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Spot on Colebatch. My Africa trip used MMs on Africa Twins and while the mounting system was a joy to behold, the rack/subframe interface was less than special. MM uses lovely thick tubing which results in a tough but heavy rack that's only really suitable for bigger bikes (don't think softbag racks, for example). The crushed tubes are part of the problem and the rear loop is not viable especially with the larger sized panniers (flexing until they break!). Luckily the AT's don't have to endure that BMW footpeg bracket but they, like has been said, are only really tough enough for the highway NOT for extended rough tracks with heavy panniers.
Statistically, if they were intended to be tough enough, the failure rate would be only be around a couple of percent but the reality is that I hear of at least one member of any party encountering problems with racks. The structure is either not tough enough or not efficient enough or a bit of both. I loved the boxes but hated the racks. |
do the boxes fit on other racks?
(dont know why im even curious, theres no way im paying their prices!!) someone might be rich and interested? |
The £ is quite low at the moment, so maybe it's more expensive to buy aluminium these days?
Have you had a look at Overland Solutions panniers? They're really solid –*I'd say even more solid than Tesch's stuff. Personally, I don't like the MM panniers, because the lids open from the inside of the bike. If you carry a soft bag on top of the panniers, that makes it rather inconvenient to open the panniers. |
I was travelling with tony for around 6wks, and to be honest he, and me are lucky not to have got seriously hurt by them damn mm boxes.Thats all tony had so we had to endure them.
I for one will never use alu. boxes. |
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Enough already!
The numbers bandied about here for panniers is astounding to me! :eek3:
I'm outfitting my KLR by copying a rack, buying these (check link) and applying a can of Rustoleum Buy GI 20MM Ammo Box at Army Surplus World I'll try to make sure I don't embarass anyone by parking to close:tank: With the numbers I'm reading here I figure that with the money I save will pay for my gas all the way to Buenos Aires! Man of modest means:blushing: |
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Couldn't agree more! I'd have to sell both my overlanding bikes to afford a set of MMs. :( I suppose I'm "lucky" in that neither of the bikes are in the mainstream and there's no off the shelf luggage for them from either MM or TT so it's DIY or nothing, but even if there was I'm not sure I'd want that much money tied up in panniers. I'd be more worried about someone stealing the luggage than I would be about them stealing the contents. |
pay less, go soft (i use ortlieb but if you want tough go andy strapz)and use the saved money to do what you had originally set out to do, TRAVEL. a lot of us, me included get too lost in the gear we think we need( too much time to navel gaze before actually leaving for trips)forgetting that keeping it simple is all it is really about. christ i have seen people out there travelling with bolivian shopping bags bungied to bikes and doing perfectly ok. as long as you can attatch whatever it is to the bike and it stays there all day it will be good. stop internet shopping and financing pisstakers who want to get rich of the back of us and get out on that road.
alternatively spend all ya dosh kitting out your shiny perfect bikes and only spend a month away as opposed to the six you could have had. hard hat now on and ready to recieve the flak some of you may now write. big cheeky left eye wink oz |
i kind of agree with you, Oz, but im one of those who cant put into practice the common sense we all know but rarely use.
i coped with the XT600 fine for a month at a time with a drybag strapped longways on the back, no frames or rack needed, with a backpacker tent, bag, stove, vittles and a couple of spare t-shirts and i was as happy as pig in ####. when i bought the varadero it came with all the luggage i could never want but it warps you over to the "that panniers virtually empty, what can i put in it?" dark side of bike packing. i have learned some lessons, nowerdays the topbox is empty so i can lock away the helmet and jacket, but im 10yrs older and the tent and sleeping bag have got bigger and warmer, required rations have increased exponentially from the bag of rice and dried mushrooms i could live on for a day and i dont remember needing to pack so much booze all those years ago? |
"and only spend a month away as opposed to the six "
That's kinda how things are heading. We're willing to spend more money on the trip but less time doing it. A culture of box-tickers. Travelling is easier than it's ever been - credit cards accepted all over (sort of), plenty of petrol stations, the internet to tell you where to go and what to take. We're still very poor at judging real risks (hypothermia, heatstroke) and we deceive ourselves into being complacent i.e. we have a Best in Test GPS system but no idea how to use it, a top of the range waterfilter in the desert and not enough water. A reliance on gadgets and not enough batteries..etc. |
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