Open face lid v Full face
 

Always had full face, but then always had motorcycles. Closest I've cometo an open face is a Moto-X lid...

Now I also have a Ural side car, I'm thinking perhaps the safety shortcoming s of an open face may not be as relevant.

Discuss!

Seriously though. For overlanding, on a Ural that will rarely head north of 55mph, would you still recommend fullface?

Otherwise which open face gets your vote? Function over form for me, please...

So far seen Arai Freeway, Schuberth J1 (mortgage needed!), A Nolan, Dianese, and HJC...

Used to ride with an open face on my Enfield. Swapped to a full face after discovering that rain hurts even at 50mph!

In a nice climate however, it might be nice. Depends on the conditions you envisage riding in.

Matt :)

I use a Fox MX helmet off-road and a BMW system 4 on-road. I, personally, would never feel comfortable without some chin protection. I also like to keep the wind out - to prevent my eyes watering and protect my ears.

To me, other than off-road, a helmet with a flip-up chin and fully sealed visor is the best possible option and worth the investment. The specific brand is down to individual choice (and budget).

BTW That Schuberth J1 with the snap-in hoop looks interesting and there is a review of it on the HUBB here.
Stephan

Flip!
 

I would definitely agree with the flip up option... they offer better protrection than an open face in a crash... i kinda like my 'Jimmy Hill' chin for some reason! better wind/rain/cold protection too. Furthermore, when you stop somewhere to ask directions etc you can just flip it up so the people can see your smiling dusty mug... I really do think they offer the best compromise... and although expensive, the BMW one i have had has been good.

Hope this helps

William

I used to like an open face helmet and Climax racing [leather] goggles , when it rained I would clip a wrap around shield on the front of the helmet , worked great .
But that was with an Everoak Grand Prix helmet [ remember them ?] ,which was a first class piece of kit .
I've tried to do the same kind of thing with modern helmets and failed , most open faced helmets are bulkier than they used to be , they are very noisy and goggles don't seem to fit .
So I went the full face route and hated the damn things , claustraphobic , couldn't feel the wind ,fogged up etc etc .Moto cross style ones were a bloody pain with goggles .

At the moment I have a Nolan n100 and like it , it looks very dorky but at least I can flip up the chin bar at slow speed and get some air , I also ride with tinted safety glasses and it's great at speeds up to 60 mph with the chin up . With the front down it's completely waterproof and quiet - a bit like being in a car really .

On very hot days there is nothing better than putting on the Davida pudding bowl with goggles !For long straight boring roads where the hazards are few and predictable it's ideal .

For plodding around on a Ural I would think an open face would be fine , just keep your chin up when you tip it over !
Nolan do an open face with a lifting visor that looks OK , try a few different types and also try on the goggles , see what you think .

[ no warranty actual or implied , your mileage may very , always wear a chinstrap , buckle up and wear a condom whilst operating machinery , ]

I would go with the Flip-Up option. Modern flip ups are much improved over early ones from Schuburth, BMW or Nolan. I owned and tested a Nolan N100 years ago. The latest one is much better. (stronger, quieter, more comfortable, better shield and more)
I have a new Shoei Multitec flip up helmet. I rate it B+. My Full face is an Arai RR3 / RX-7. (best they made in 2004) Cost $700.
Not only is the Multitec far quieter than earlier flip ups, its stronger and safer than some other ones, like HJC. It IS expensive.

Even though you have a hack, I think full face protection is still needed.
If you go through your plastic shield even at 15 mph, it will hurt and do alot of damage. You could still be thrown off the hack and land face first on the road or into a car or whatever.
Touring with the flip up has a lot of convenient features I like. Cool air in slow going in hot weather, ability to converse easily without removing helmet. Great for fuel stops, tolls, police or asking directions. Save a ton of time every day not constantly having to remove it.
My new Shoei is quiet for a flip up. Actually nearly as quiet, or perhaps AS quiet as my RX-7 Arai.
Friends have the latest Nolan's and they too get great reviews, and are about 30% cheaper than Shoei. (or more)
I would never wear a regular open face helmet. I just don't feel comfortable riding. Nor do I ride without a helmet. (many US states and many other countries do not require a helmet. I always wear mine ..... with ear plugs of course.
Ear plugs make you a calmer rider. Studies have shown blood pressure and heart rate both drop with ear plugs in. Stress levels go down. Very important if doing very long days on the bike. Fatigue is lessened by a significant margin that you can literally feel. You ride smarter and see and hear more, not as distracted.
Racers run faster lap times using plugs. No current racers run without them.
(in major pro classes) All that said, one caveat about flip-ups: They will not be as safe in a crash as a full face helmet. They are not SNELL rated (NO flip up is). (SNELL is a private, independent helmet testing and rating group, been around since the 70's, very well known)

I have talked to the SNELL guys in Sacramento, California who say it is only because of the flip up hardware that they will not pass the rigorous testing.
Fact is, 90% of crashed flip ups would do fine. Its that rare 10% where you could have a problem with the chin bar coming off. Most times you are fine. Having hung out with the SNELL guy for a day (doing an interview) I feel confident my Shoei will do the job. Shoei put new work and thought into this lastest Multitec helmet. I hope it will hold up.




Patrick

I also like open face or jet helmets sometimes. My compromise is to get one with flip up visor and hope for the best. You need the screen anyway for stinging rain.

I also have the usual fullface helmet with flip up front, when I want the full face option.

I've just read a helmet review on this thread. It tells me that full frontal face injuries are fairly common. So I really shouldnt be using an open face........

I could never feel safe with an open-face helmet! Why wear one at all? Here's why: I was sitting on my bike in a line-up waiting in a construction zone. A rather large dump-truck rolled by and a rock the size of my fist fell from the truck, bounced down the road and hit me in the chin, of my full face shoie helmet. The impact cracked the helmet and i had to discard it! Had i worn an open face... man, i don't even want to think about it! My helmets are full of scars from road debris, chipped chin-pieces and scratched visors. Nope! Go for the full face!
Think about this, do you feel because you have a sidecar, you can ride in shorts and sandals?

Well it's hard to beat your bad experience!

I think that you were spectacularly unlucky - about the same odds as winning a lottery. But I can see why you won't wear open face helmets....

I have one of each, but very much prefer using the Airoh Rock open face helmet. At 700 grams its about half the weight of a full face or flip.

But the main advantage which no-one has mentioned yet is your ability to interact with locals. You pull up in a full face helmet to some 3rd world hillbilly and you look like an evil beast from outer space. Pull up in a open face helmet when everyone can see your face, and its a completely different reaction.

If you are walking down the street with your mother and a bike pulls up next you both with the rider in a full face helmet and iridium visor starts to ask a favour, its a different ballgame from the same guy riding up with an open face helmet and a smile.

Having done a lot of touring with both, I find it infinately easier to enlist the help and get the trust of locals with an open face helmet on. Make no mistake, you still get help with a full face, but it doesnt even begin to compare with how the intereaction goes with an open face.

It might not be safer, but the compromise is safety vs interaction with the locals,. You can always go round the world in a 4WD airconditioned landcruiser with a roll cage if you want to err on the side of safety in that debate.

Next time you watch Mondo Enduro or Terra Circa, imagine how impersonal it would have all been if they all had full face helmets instead of open helmets. It would just be a bunch of 7 faceless bikers rather than Austin, Gerald, Charlie, etc etc.

I find it quite effective to just take off my helmet when i talk to the locals. We're not in that big of a rush, are we? ;)
Seriously, with all my years of riding, on highway and off road, i can't count on my fingers and toes how many times a full-face helmet has saved my eyes, teeth, nose and chin. I've been over the handel bars and skidded face first on a gravel road! Just imagine what i would look like now if i wore an open face. I still see no point in wearing a helmet at all of it's not a full face. Sorry guys, just my opinion here, You can see i have my reasons. Don't mean to preach to the choir.

Do whatever feels right for you this topic is so open to getting a different view from everyone.

I can see peoples point about open face vs full face but if safety is always an issue maybe you shouldnt be on a motorcycle.

Isnt it all about freedom if we always close ourselves off from the outside world we may as well just drive cars.

I get the point of being able to take a helmet off to ask directions but that can become a major pain after the second or third time.

A smile goes along way and people only see that smile from an open lid.

Hey dont get me wrong if I have a long motorway stint I wear a full face helmet no question but there are days when I like to ride open face in a jacket and jeans and light moto x gloves. I always thought that was the joy of motorcycles.

It doesnt matter how much protection we wear. Every time you ride you may be killed. Thats Life you choose your fun you take the risks.

???
 

This thread and the last two posts, both of which are pretty valid, are the reasons flip up helmets were invented... surely??

For sure! I Don't have one myself, but i also thought of that after i posted my last comment. I also find that removing your helmet in some countries is also kind of a polite statement, kinda like removing your hat at the dinner table. It helps to put you at the same level as the person your talking to. Once again, just my 2 cents.

I do agree that flip helmets are improving all the time in terms of offering the benefits of both open and full helmets. I might even give one a try one of these days.

Anyone tried the Airoh Mathisse?

Schubert C2
 

Warthog, few months ago I bought Schubert C2 that is the flip up helmet, and I have only good things to say about it.

1. Easyer to put on.

2. You can talk to people without yelling.

3. This thing is so silent! I ride TT600R and even after long rides 4+ hours my ears don't hurt at all.

4. In many situations there is no need to take it off, like: Gas stations, borders, police, take a photo...

5. I really like internal sun visor, much much better than Nolan, which has one but it is outside.

6. It weights 1700 grams, many full face helmets are havier than that.

bye

Nikola

I did have a Nolan N102 but after doing a 5000km ride with it, gave it away and went back to a trusty Shoei fullface. After being spoiled by Shoei for so long I found the Nolan incredibly heavy and noisy. The build quality wasn't the best either. I do miss being able to flick it up for talking, photos etc.. Pity I wasn't built like a front row forward or probably would have stuck it out with the Nolan.

There isn't a perfect answer. I wear a Roof flip front in the city on two or three wheels, usually in open face mode so I can see and hear and talk to people, but closed up when it rains/sleets/snows. The thing is useless on the motorway and I switch to a Schuberth, which promtly annoys me by giving the vision you'd get in a tank and misting like mad unless I've fitted the (serious winter rally) heated visor. I have an open FM with goggles that works best off road (very light, perfect vision) and in fog.

I'll take the ability to see over chin protection anyday, you use the former all the time and the later rarely, but it really is personal choice until they come up with something that's properly modular and can be switched from one type to another at the road side.

For a 55 mph sidecar ride away from the motorway I'd go open face and carry a face mask/scarf.

Andy

I'm with Colebatch and Stuxtttr.

My very first helmet (back in '72) was a full face Shoei) this was back in the days when full faces had just been released.

When I did my Singapore to London ride in 1977 I used a full face but actually got into trouble in Malaysia where full faces are illegal in the cities.

When I got to London I then used an open face to ride down through Africa in 1978.

Similarily when I rode from North America to Argentina in 1984 I used an open face the whole way.

Riding around Australia on my high speed trips I use a full face but have gone back to an open face in the past few months as I have a fairly large fairing on my Suzuki, and I find that wind turbulence causes massive in-helmet noise, which is considerably reduced using an open face. Using a flip up is pointless because the windblast from the fairing would try to pull the flipped up portion off the top of my head

On my China-Russia-Europe ride, which I start next week, I will also be using an open face the whole way with a snap on shield for inclement weather conditions.

When riding with an open face, and no visor I feel much, much more part of the environment and it heightens my overall experience of the journey dramatically.

As has been pointed out by other posters, if you are that concerned about safety then either stay home or drive a car.

Garry from oz.

So, i supose then that because i choose to wear boots, gloves jacket and pants and a full face helmet, then i should just stay home? To be a REAL adventurer, should i ride naked? The first trip i took with my girlfriend on the back, i warned her to keep her visor closed when on the highway. She didn't listen, and at high speed a rather large insect of some sort hit her below her eye, leaving a bleeding welt. It could of been a lot worse had it hit her only one centimeter higher. Now she is quite comfortable riding with her visor closed, but i guess she should just stay home? Can't take a bug in the face, can't take the adventure? I couldn't care less if someone chooses to ride with or without a visor, helmet, chin-strap or clothes for that matter. If you really feel that protecting a few vital parts of your body takes away from your traveling experience, fine, to each their own, but i do take offence when someone sugests i stay home because i choose to protect my body.
I also drive a car. Would you sugest i not wear my seatbelt because i'm not getting the full experience out of driving with it on? I'm not preaching to anyone on this forum what they should or shouldn't do. I am only sharing my experience and my opinion, which is what the thread starter asked for. If you don't like it or disagree, fine, but don't sugest to me i should stay home!

To be honest, as a motorcyclist, I feel I am far more concerned safety than many other people on the road, and a better road user as a result. Its being "concerned" that keeps us bikers alive when faced with hordes of drivers that do not see us a a threat to their car or their person and, so, simply do not see us.

I can well imagine that less obstructions to the face makes one feel more in contact with the environment, but when I am riding a solo, I have and will always where a full-face: not wearing one just does not add up for me: I don't want my chin left as a greasy stain over a 75 metre stretch of road: don't feel I'm less of a motorcyclist for it, though... I don't even own a car!

Difference for me here is that an outift is certainly less likely to low-side/high-side unless you really cock up a corner, so the risk of coming off is decreased in that respect. Then there is the speed aspect. Realistically, the Ural will not easily exceed 60 mph on a regular basis. Having ridden it for a while now, I can also say that I don't really see myself riding faster than 50 mph on the open road. Its not a bike built for speed, and even at 50 mph it takes a more subtle hand to keep the bike steady. This is why I am considering an open face. That said, I may simply comromise and stick to my M-cross lid that has a very big facial opening and is almost an open face if the goggles are down. Time will tell as my outfit riding experience increases.

You seem to make similar point to other posters on here.

Although, I do like the idea of the open face (breeze on my face: nice in hot climates) I feel, as I posted just a bit earlier that a fullface is a better option and for that the MX lid is a good compromise. However, I am intrigued by the flip-up configuration and I may well investigate them as a possibility.

Where the open face wins hands down with a Ural outfit is the look: it suits the old-fashioned style and poise of the Ural more that a graphic-ed up crosser lid. However, I do tend toward function first, form second...

Fair enough Ron, I can see that my final words may have come across as a little glib - not intended - I'll add a smiley face next time I say something like that. :)

Basically for me it is horses for courses. If I'm riding superfast (which I do on occasion) then I'm all geared up for it as I know I am pushing my limits. However, when I do my long distance international rides I go slowly, take it easy and avoid putting myself in risky situations. Yes, I know I can't avoid situations that are caused by others but I am still convinced that 90% of bike accidents are a result of our going far too fast for the conditions and us not appreciating that other road users are not expecting us to be in that particular piece of road space that quickly.

So yes, I take the risk of scraping my chin down the road but I ameliorate that risk by riding sufficiently defensively, and slowly, to reduce the probability considerably. Of course I am still at risk of other road users mistakes but I'll happily live with that.

As for the risk of bugs in the eyes, well my large screen handles that aspect for me.

I totally agree Warthog, I like to lope along at no more than 80km/h - it's part of that whole interaction I'm referring to - I'm never in a hurry when I am travelling overseas.

Garry from Oz.

Wow, i just re-read my rant ... my apolagies! Had a really strange day yesterday and your post for some reason rubbed me the wrong way. Have you noticed the moon yet?? ;)

Have you looked at the schuberth J1 open face I use one all the time when travelling and riding. I have used it from arctic to desert tarmac and dirt road all on a solo bike, it has a short (summer visor), longer winter visor (excellent at keeping serious weather at bay, Internal flip down dark visor -saves wearing sunglasses and a removable chin bar that acts a bit like a full face helmet keeping your face and nose out of the tarmac in a fall, The chin bar is well out of line of sight and does not detract from the open face feel. It is comfortable quiet and very stable at speed or in wind. Its a pretty expensive hat but it does almost everything a full face does in an open face package, its not prone to steaming up in the wet so much, is good in very hot weather with a good vent system and if its safety well its up there with the best protection you can get. Ive had mine almost 4 years/over 60000 miles of use now and think its the best allround hat I have used in thirty years of riding.
Cant say more than that really.

Flip Front! :thumbup1: The only down side is that they are noisy and heavy (although my shoei syncrotech isnt too heavy)but the Flexibility makes it worth while.I get claustrophobic in a full face and ride round town with the front up usualy, and close the lid whenever i get going over 60/70 . On a long motorway blast the noise can get tedius but as with everything else compromises have to be made.

Just curious, but i've noticed a lot of people complaining about helmet noise. Have you guy's tried ear-plugs? I was skeptical at first, but now would never travel on the highway without them. I also use ear-plug type speakers from Etymotic for my i-pod. 30Db earplugs with speakers... who woulda thunk it ;)

Ron,

Definately agree about using ear plugs! Especially on the highway. Seriously, if you ride a bike a lot you risk causing long term damage to your ears. So anyone who starts riding reasonably young, and continues to do so for, say, 40 years could easily end up deaf as a post!
They also make the whole experience of riding more comfortable.

Re: helmets. I wear a full face these days for reasons of comfort because I live in Scotland where the rain and bugs make open faces a bit of a trial. If I lived, or was to travel again to a warmer/drier climate, I think I'd go with an open face. I'm one of those people who likes to feel the wind in my face, and I agree that it makes communication with the locals easier.
At the risk of being excommunicated from the church of motorcycling safety, I must also admit to have ridden sans helmet in Morocco, and it was lovely! (My life, my descision!)

Matt :)

Since this thread started, I have thought it through, and I am sort of erring toward a full-face still, for the sake of protection, even if a n outfit is less prone to falling over! However, of all the open-faces, I think the J1 is the only one I'd serious ly consider. The only problem is the ludricrous price tag!! The cheapest I've seen is £300, or €450. I can get a top end plain f-face Arai for that!! That also represents about 5000 miles of petrol! That is a lot of miles when I already have a serviceable lid!! I'll think about it, but I think prices would have to drop to make it worth my while...

Nice features though. Does the sun-visor interfere with specs? I am blind and need my glasses on all the time!

Interesting looking lid. I like it. Might have to try one on in the flesh ... I like that you can get a peak for it as well ... http://goodwood-hd-lifestyling-fashi.../j1c_sv_wv.jpg

It all depends. Some days I'm happy to hide behind my Shoei Hornet DS with dark tinted visor. Other days I want the freedom of my Airoh TR1 jet helmet minus the chin guard. Work colleagues say that the Hornet is intimidating and references to Halo and cyborgs are often made.

Not so with the TR1. The shoei has better upholstery but I roasted in the summer heat last year and so this year I'm toying with wearing the TR1 for general comfort in the heat and friendly factor. Of the three times I've fallen off bikes and the two occasions a car hit me my head never even touched the ground or the vehicle. Personal choice at the end of the day.

I think risk and perception of risk and what you are comfortable with changes from day to day. Some days I wear a hi-viz jacket others I'm happy to be all in black. :mchappy:

Fool-face Helmet
 

I'd personally use a full face helmet as I know I'd not be able to curbe my crazy urges and i'd flip the Ural sooner rather than later. It can corner on two wheels one way and give a super overdose of adrenaline the other way. So much fun potential that I'll stay away--I'd definitely kill myself. Maybe you're more restrained though. Linzi.

Full face or not to
 

Seriously, all things being equal I could choose a flip-up lid but I just wouldn't choose an open face one for a day to day helmet or adventure lid. I lost count of how many time we fell off in Africa on our trip and even though I know chicks-dig-scars, my face is important to me and easily damaged.

You want to take in the atmosphere? Stop and take your lid off every now and again. As people keep saying on HUBB, its not like travellers should feel they're in a hurry.

also..
 

We are typical humans when it comes to risk:

"Of the three times I've fallen off bikes and the two occasions a car hit me my head never even touched the ground or the vehicle" - The risk is no less real because it hasn't happened to you today, or yesterday etc

"I think risk and perception of risk and what you are comfortable with changes from day to day" - lazy risk management - they're basically the same for humans. A better question to ask yourself is not "how safe do I feel today" (passive/fuzzy) rather "how do I feel about living with the consequences" (mitigation)

Try this for enlightenment.
"Fooled by Randomness" - Nassim Nicholas Taleb

Sometimes I'm a bit naughty but when I started riding helmets were things you used to keep your hair down. So as long as the road is quiet and I'm only doing 30-40mph I sometimes take it off.

My favourite helmet is the BMW System V flipfront. As I come into towns and villages in strange lands I like to flip the front up so I enter as a human being not as some Darth Vader lookalike.

The System V converts into a Jet helmet (open face), so in hot weather I take the front section off and install the Jet side pieces. The conversion also involves a different visor that comes further down.

Tim

Open face.

Easier to chat to people,
You can smoke and eat without faffing,
You can sleep in it if the desert is cold,
No fogging,
They look good, (:thumbup1:)
You can smell and touch and feel everything, (which I suppose does include the road if you come off - a small drawback.)

Birdy

Givi ?
 

There seems to be a new helmet out from Givi the X.06

http://www.givi.co.uk/downloadfree.a...=15551&UT_ID=0http://www.givi.co.uk/downloadfree.a...=15497&UT_ID=0

Which offers something slightly different from the "standard" flip front whilst apparently being homologated (at least in France) as a full face. I've not seen one in the flesh, but it does look like it could offer a bit of both worlds (but maybe the worst?).

Again its all down to choice like I said earlier I wear a Schuberth j1 open face when travelling however I have been riding for about 35 years using bike in most of that time as my daily transport. From 1977 to about 1985 I wore an Everoak open face helmet and goggles this was the time I was young and daft and on fast (for the day bikes) Laverdas Ducatis and Guzzis being my main bikes and a few BMWs I used to race around like a madman back then had a few spills and crashes (3 actual crashes and two slide offs in winter) (I have had only one very minor crash since then on road but and a few minor falls on the dirt) My only injuries in all that time by bike accidents were punctured abdomen - Fairing of ducati shattered and scewered me going under the bottom edge of the leather jacket, and the other injury was shaved off kneecap (wearing levis hit the tarmack at about 90mph oops ! (That was the easy bit cos the next bit was a cornish Hedge (dry stone wall for those that dont know) really did hurt ). My face never hit the tarmac(or the wall). Even in a very high speed off on the motorway where I slid a huge distance wearing a fast melting belstaff wax. However Three of my mates back then -Now Deceased were killed hitting objects Lorry/ wall and lampost respectively all were wearing full face helmets two died of head injuries the third a broken neck.
So where do we draw the statistics from. I think you have to weigh up things for yourself and see what the risks are - my jobs were - back then far more risky than riding a bike so even though I always wore a leather jacket and gloves the open face hat was for me a nicer way to ride. I still use a open face to this day usually my shuberth but often my Davida. I would not consider a full face they are for me hot in summer, they steam up in the wet, i find them generally uncomfortable (as I have jaw and cheek injuries - which hate pressure being applied -also a load of smashed teeth none of which are from bike injuries) and i hate the closed in feel. Are they safer probably and only if the accident is such that your face hits the ground. The probability of this is probably fairly low in the greater scheme of things. I think lots of riding experience and being very watchful of others is more important in keeping you safe. As for riding an Ural combination for me I would not even consider a full face if you feel like wearing an open face just do it - your not going that much faster than a racing cycle and you have three wheels. I think we are sometimes over cautious with safety, riding bikes can be dangerous but when your card is marked then a crashelmet, leather suit, Volvo estate or a challenger tank is not going to stop Mr Reaper collecting his dues.

Old habits..
 

"Are they safer probably and only if the accident is such that your face hits the ground. The probability of this is probably fairly low in the greater scheme of things.".

Just using common sense suggests that any accident involving parting company with the motorcycle in a "generally forward direction" will have a greater chance of involving the front of your body and therefore the front of your head.

Probably come across wrong by greater scheme of things i meant that all the factors involved lining up eg riding + miles covered +experience + having an accident + serious enough to involve being thrown from the bike + coming off forwards (as opposed to side ways backwards or whatever + head hitting ground or object + landing on front and face being injured specifically. There are lots of factors when you way it up a statistician would come up with a percentage of chance that may be quite low. However I really do accept that if you hit your face its going to get hurt. I have however no doubt that in other accidents where head neck chest injuries are present a full face helmet can and will cause many other problems - access to airways, neck injury removing the hat etc etc , Also there is somewhere on the net that suggests the largest amount of fatal accidents and serious injuries to motorcycle riders involve not the head (probably due to the wearing of crashelmets) but upper body and internal organs being damaged.

There were 560-odd motorcycle deaths in the UK in 2007. This is a lot lower than before 1973 when helmets really came into use, even when you estimate the number of deaths per mile. It is a well proven fact that helmets save lives (especially combined with better pedestrian protection measures on other vehicles).

The trouble is that the statistical collection then falls down, it lacks detail. Of the 560, we simply don't know how many weren't wearing a helmet (illegally), how many were lacking other forms of protection, how many were drunk or on drugs (lowers survival rate by reaction to drugs, inability to say where it hurts etc.), or how many were simply too far gone to save by any means (decapitations etc.). As the post mortem system isn't collated with accident investigation to any huge extent, we can't say how many internal injuries were a result of speed, lack of body armour, hitting road furniture and so on. There is even less data on injuries, so drawing a line between what works and what doesn't is hard. There is no data for people who came off, wrecked there gear but otherwise walked away, or those who saw the accident about to happen and took action to avoid it.

The Jury is firmly out on if the extra protection (proven by racers) of a full face outweighs the open faces improved comfort and vision.

One reason to deffinately choose full face is to protect your hearing. Personally I'm used to ear plugs and can't find a full face that doesn't feel like a letterbox vision wise and doesn't mist like a sauna. I prefer open face or flip front, but as a sidecarist, protection that applies to two wheels doesn't always have obvious uses, you'll never lowside an outfit.

Andy

Thread
 

Just to get back on thread for a minute - most of the trips people are coming to the Hubb to ask about involve large stretches of tarmac at, sadly, ever increasing speeds (West Africa can be done on well over 95% tarmac). This will only become the norm as countries develop their infrastructure.

If it's your first big trip and you are wondering about whether to take an open/fullface lid I would suggest you put the romance of open face helmets slightly on the backburner in favour of practicality - you will have plenty of other things to think about!

One reason to deffinately choose full face is to protect your hearing. Personally I'm used to ear plugs and can't find a full face that doesn't feel like a letterbox vision wise and doesn't mist like a sauna. I prefer open face or flip front, but as a sidecarist, protection that applies to two wheels doesn't always have obvious uses, you'll never lowside an outfit.

Andy[/quote]

Must admit my Davida is much much quieter than any full face helmet I have ever tried infact more so than a shuberth S1 which I bought in an attempt to go over to full face hats (but did not like so much ) and no longer have - went back to open face hats. The schuberth open face is quite noisy.

I cant agree with that . .. my experience of human nature is to cover your face / turn your head. Unless any impact is literally in your face, the full face offers no advantage. In almost all cases, before a helmet hits the road or is sliding into something, the owner of that helmet has already turned his head. Of the 100's of times you see GP riders coming off their bikes, have you ever seen any where the rider impacts something visor or chin first? I cant recall any (I am not implying it doesnt happen - but it does show its rare at best.).

An open face helmet still offers just as much "helmetage" over the back, sides and top.

Its not just the additional comfort and interaction I enjoy with the open face helmet, its the feeling of being more immersed in the surroundings ... I have a full face but hate it for touring. there's a heightened sense of "being there" with an open face.

Maybe its just me ... but comparing a full face to an open face (for me) is like comparing a enclosed car with a convertible, in terms of the overall feeling of "being there".

Flying the chair on right handers is pretty straight forward, but cock it up on a left hander, you don't need a full face, you need a roll cage, so I don't push the limits unecessarily: You get no warning, or maybe 0.3 secs or so.....

Back wheel lifts over the sidecar body, so you have no engine breaking to scrub off speed and the front brake will only make it happen faster. Only way to save you skin is to hang as far off the left of the bike as humanly possible and hope: assuming you can react in that fraction of a second. Not nice!!!

When I ownded 2 outfits I used an open face helmet around town and a flip front when out on the open road. I had a big screen on both Viragos so wind noise with the flip front was not a problem.

Now that I have gone over to a solo I use open face around town and a full face out on the open raod.

I had to sop using a flip front as the wind noise was bad even with ear plugs in.

I know the dangers of using an open face if I come off and my chin hits the road. But in summer and in commuting tarffic an open face is so much more comfortable. My open face has a cut down flip up clear visor as well. I use this only when it is raining.

In the middle of summer my full face is a sweat box. Then again I do ride behind a BMW with a RT fairing. I can lower the screen and this does make a small difference allowing the wind to hit the helmet and direct air into my face with the visor open.

So for me it depends on the ride and weather as to what helmet I wear.

If we think of all the bad things that can happen to us in life I'm sure we would not be happy with the consequences. If I mess my face up because I wore an open face helmet then I only have myself to blame. I am happy with that scenario.

If my face gets messed up despite wearing a full face helmet (I recollect a guy on TV who was hit in the face by a pheasant) then where does that leave me? Do I blame the helmet manufacturer or as in the first scenario do I just say well those are part and parcel of the risks of riding a motorcycle.

I really don't like the modern disease of looking for someone to blame and trying to seek compensation. I am happy to live with the consequences of my actions and thus far have no regrets about my choices. So in summary I will continue to wear my open face whilst using my 'passive/fuzzy' judgement :mchappy:

catch22
 

That's one of the facinating aspects of being human! Calculating cause and effect is time consuming, tiresome and just gets us down.

Blame is such an interesting concept especially when we try to avoid doing any of the assessing ourselves (because it makes us unhappy) but then expect everyone else to consider the risk and consequences of their actions to the nth degree (exageration for effect)!

you certainly seem well read in this field of human behaviour. :thumbup1:

Full face
 

I would swing towards the full face, just as it is so much safer. With the lid open alot of cool air will come in.
Once a bee even came in and stung me on the cheek, hurt like hell. I could'nt get the helmet off fast enough.
The full face looks better. But different strokes for different folks.

In a good deal of the world you see next to no one with helmets and many of these places are likely to be significantly more dangerous then developed countries. When I crossed Tibet, the only thing I could find was a local helmet. These are like the plastic ones they pass out to kids on helmet day at the baseball park!


There are times when I find a full face exasperating. This is mostly when touring in foreign countries. When I arrive in a Peruvian city and am search for hotels or when I am tooling along a deserted dirt road taking photos every half km or so. So on my last South Am trip I carried a good full face and a compact half helmet that I would put on when the full face was being a bother.

Now I have a flip face that is admittedly more dangerous than A fixxed full face and the little half helmet. I try to wear my full face as much as possible when I ride in the states, but when I tour I am using the flip face and carry the half helmet for passengers or at times when I just don´t really want to bother with a helmet (ie.a Sunday morning test ride on my quiet little street). I think I get a greater degree of protection when touring with the flip face because I am less tempted to wear my half helmet.

The half helmet is only really so if I do get killed the news article can say I was wearing a helmet.

At some point most of us decide to take risks for the sake of convenience, but this can be dangerous indeed. There are times when I has nearly maimed or killed myself (not necessarily on motos), by trying to do something in more convenient way.

For travelling I would 100% always take a flip-face helmet. As stated they are alot more practical for putting on/eating/drinking/photoing/talking/yelling at passing camels. And since I wear glasses, being able to put it on without removing them is a huge plus.

But they are also as safe (almost as safe??) as a full face when you scrape them down the road. Last trip I fell wearing one and gave the chin piece a bit of a scrathing, and I am still very glad it was the helmet and not my face that copped it.

Ben

+1 on all the "talk to locals, feel immersed, like a convertible car compared to a hard-top, easy on-and-off, especially if you wear glasses"

One thing that hasn't been mentioned: Active safety.

Wearing an open-face with good peripheral vision in Istanbul, I felt more aware of my surroundings and hence was actively safer. I concede, any injuries would probably have been worse had I hit the tarmac.

Nolan N41
 

Using a Nolan N41 for current trip ... very impressed with it.

Open face
Peak
Visor for evenings, rain, cold

And the visor is very very scratch resistant. Mine is almost unmarked after 4 months on the road.

http://www.ajbike.fi/images/webkuvat...110-N41-54.jpg

Update
 

My Roof flip front dropped to bits. First the rubber bits that held the visor shut broke, then the hinge itself worked loose. Not a good buy IMHO.

My FM is also no more, dropped it off the seat and having decided the last time I did that was about eight years ago, I decided it must have been past it's sell by date. Pity, it was a really good lid.

My Shuberth is still going strong and I'm now wearing about the cheapest open face scooter helmet I could lay my hands on for the city.

Andy

I have a Schuberth Concept, I removed the chin curtain as it was a pain in the backside, I can now flip it up and down with one hand whilst moving.:thumbup1:
Before I had to stop and use both hands to flip it either way.:thumbdown:
It doesn't feel as claustrophobic either.




Trophhymick