I agree with Touring Ted on this one - they are ALL far too costly (for what they are) and they damage too easily. A far better (and far cheaper) option is soft luggage. It's also lighter and hand portable.

The only downside as I see it with soft luggage is security (when you want to leave the bike for a short while). The only thing to do here is to take the thing with you.

I swear by good old leather saddle bags but the modern alternative seems to be a HUGE single bag tied down on top of the seat with bungee's.

Same old story - The manufacturers who make these things are being too GREEDY. They simply aren't worth what they are demanding...

Great thread here !
Was going to make my own Alu panniers and steel frame racks but people on here have made me think again....
Has anyone tried the Hepco + Becker Gobi system ? Has room for liquids between the skins and supposedly un breakable. Cheers.
http://www.hepco-becker.de/_eng/imag...Gobi-black.jpg

+1

I use H&B panniers and I completely agree it's not all about get-offs or security of your gear.

I see the H&B panniers as portable furniture. Yes that's right, I travel Two-Up and it's nice to take off the panniers and use them as seats in the middle of nowhere. I can't do that Indian squat thing for more than a few minutes. My other major consideration was water proof. I don't want to have to worry about all my gear, getting soaked.

As far as security goes no pannier is 'safe'. If a thief wants to get in then they will find a way.

Every luggage option is a compromise - no matter what other travelers say you need to assess your needs and budget against your travel style and the climate location you'll be traveling. What goes for travel in Outback Australia isn't true for Europe or freezing Siberia.

Oh and if you like stickers - can't beat smooth alu surface beerchug

Whilst I agree luggage is a compromise, I certainly don't agree that the saem luggage can't be used for all of the above conditions - I've use exactly the same items in the outback, Siberia, Europe and a whole lot of places in between.

My personal choice is a GIVI top box (excellent security, as tough as they come - only problem is that big heavy mass acting as a pendulum on corrugated road surfaces, subframes DO bend), underseat storage (secure, invisible and I get 50+ litres with my Burgman), and soft luggage for the rest (throwover panniers if I have a passenger, or a simple canvas bag on the seat if I don't).

Soft bags work ok.
 

I have traveled with soft bags after having issues with the spendy aluminums. The spendy aluminum ones tended to rattle and leak water and dust. Went to Ortlieb soft bags that are totally water and dust proof and added a second bag for tools. Taken a few spills with softbags and just pick up the bike and get going. Security??? No place is totally safe. Keep an eye on things and sleep with the bags. This photo was in Chile. I think they look as nice as twisted aluminums.....

Soft is best in tough conditions.
 

I have ridden my strom off road more than most to know. It is not really an off road bike. My take on panniers and I have tried most is. If road you are traveling is mostly tar. It does not matter whether you use hard or soft..

If the road/ track is hard going. Then soft is the way to go. With hard panniers you need to have them tightly packed to stop your valuables destroying themselves.

Steel pony soft luggage after couple of desert crossings.
http://justdan.smugmug.com/Bikes/Bir...66_WKXtE-L.jpghttp://justdan.smugmug.com/Other/Rid...22_gJTDb-L.jpg

Horses for courses
 

IMHO I can see the merit of both soft luggage and panniers.

If I was going to ride on soft or muddy surfaces where the risk of tipping over was considerably higher then I would change my hard luggage (H&B Standard Alu) to soft or at the very least consider the risks and financial strain.

I also think that most people that use hard luggage (alu or other) don't consider how much they might fall off, they don't want to consider the worst case scenario and what it would mean to fix the bike if like with Touring Ted's photos, the bike was always rubber side up... oops :rolleyes2: No harm meant :innocent:

So I've come up with this formula to help provide some direction to other's in their buying decision.

Choose Soft luggage if:

(Riding time on soft surface > 200 metres)
AND
((Riding skill on soft surfaces < 3 years experience) OR (Motorcycle & luggage combined mass > 180kgs))
OR
(Number of drops >= x)
OR
(Available funds $$ < (co$t of repair OR co$t of replacement of hard luggage))

For all else choose hard luggage.
:D

I've made the following assumptions based on the above.

• Soft surfaces include sand, mud, bulldust, or anything else where your sidestand would dig in and you're bike would topple over if you weren't there holding it upright.
• Riding on 200 metres or more means in one single stretch that can not be avoided.
• X is determined as the variable for the number of falls, tips, offs or other where the rubber is not touching the road and your nerve is about to break if your hard luggage hasn't already. X is also known as the breaking point for conversion to soft luggage.
• Repair and replacement cost(s) assume that certain amount of damage has been inflicted to said hard panniers and that they don't serve intended/desired purpose and hence need to be repaired or replaced.

The above may not apply in your specific set of circumstances so use your own discretion in making any financial decisions as I or any associated party will not be held liable and/or accountable for any injury and/or damage incurred by following the above. The above does not constitute advice but merely the opinion of a reader.

:offtopic: if there are any computer programmers interested in the formula in say C or VB code just flick me a PM. (Oh and yes I have a serious case of mondayitis!!! :frown:)

Lovely Day in the Congo
 

Here's my thoughts on Hard panniers............ entitled 'A lovely day in the Congo' BEWARE.... lots of swearing..!

YouTube - RideFar's Channel

I have hard panniers on my Tenere as they came with the bike but for any decent tour I'm going with hard top box and soft panniers. Saves on the 'ammering an mendin' LOL!

And it wasn't even soft surface
 

See my reference to "< 3 years riding experience" above. I tell you that formula works!


WTF. Does anyone else find it strange that he had a hammer, as if predicting that he would need it to bang the panniers back into shape??!!

Maybe shyte pannier makers (not mentioning any names TT) should also make some kind of quick release when coming off so as to soften the fall, oh whoops sorry my bad they already do that, it's called poor quality frames. :rofl:

:rofl::funmeteryes:

That pretty much sums it up. Take pannier, and you take to much. Simple really. Turns a poor off road rider into a worse off road rider. jeiger

I have to agree. The photo above was taken in the middle of the Birdsville track. All up kit weight including 4L of water and 3 days of food and gear for a month living off the bike weighed just over 20kg. My empty caribous panniers weigh 16kg:thumbdown:

Yeah, bought those Steel Ponies as well. Thought it would be good to keep the COG down. Made some small lightweight racks for them. Took them on a weekend away and the weight still pissed me off. Just couldn't throw the bike around the way I wanted to. Just ruined a weekend ride. So stripping all those racks of it, I figured, those crashbars might as well go. The engine craddle crashbar might as well go. But than the plastic panels concerned me. So I figure, why stop now. Might as well strip the lot and replace with easy to use and lightweight stuff. :helpsmilie:

hehe none taken ! :smartass:

I'm convinced it was those daft, heavy expensive panniers that made my bike "fall over" as much as it did. They totally f**K up the handling and weight distribution. You can never bring them as forward (Centre of gravity) as soft bags and they weight a good 15-20Kg before you've even filled them with crap.

As soon as I swapped them for softbags (on the same trip), I was away like a Paris - Dakar racer..

:scooter:

I got some ortlieb panniers, they aren't that big, but that means i take less crap. 100% waterproof and only cost me £100 in the sale.

Wolfman Racks and Softbag Panniers Rock!
 

Figured I'd add my thoughts on this topic as well, being that I've gone the route of the softbags in lieu of the WAYYYYYYY over-priced, and overweight metal boxes that, as many have said in this thread, are just not really worth it.

I have a friend that has done London to Beijing, Pan-American Highway, the Trans-American Trail, Prudhoe Bay to Chile, and next year is doing the London to Capetown ride (most all with Globebusters). He swears by Metal Mules. He swears I shouldn't waste my money on Jesse's (too heavy), or TT's (not strong enough), or BMW's (just junk), or any other form of metal pannier as "they all leak." That's his primary reason. He also owns the BMW dealership, so he can eat the cost of shipping on his Metal Mules, and if something does happen, he'll probably warranty them. Who knows.

I did the only thing rational in my mind...I didn't listen to a word he said, and instead, did what I think makes the most sense. I bought the Wolfman Expedition Dry Saddle Bags along with the Wolfman Rack system made for the bags. Then I got a couple of the Wolfman dry duffel bags and some Rox Straps and that's all I've ever needed.

The bags stay dry. They don't weigh much at all. They, unlike metal panniers, can accommodate different shapes and sizes. If they're not full, they don't destroy whatever is in them. They don't get destroyed in a fall. I can add fuel, water, etc to the racks with the Roto Pax system. I don't lose much in the way of bike handling since they're really so light, you don't notice they're even there after a short while riding with them. I can stack and pack much more than any pannier system can take, and I don't have change out my silencer just to accommodate the rack. If one gets damaged, some duct tape will hold until I hit a place where I can apply a more permanent fix (stitching!). The whole kit cost me about the same as 1 metal pannier...without whatever rack is required for whatever pannier it is. I can buy 3 or 4 more COMPLETE sets for the price of 1 set of metal panniers and rack! So, I just don't see why anyone would even bother with metal panniers.

I hear one decent argument from another rider I ride with, in which he said "what about your laptop?" Well, I put that in a small plastic pelican case (not the big 5inch thick one...think laptop sleeve thickness) underneath my duffel if I know I'm going offroad. If i'm not going off road, it goes in my duffel at the bottom, where it's strapped to my rack...that part of the bike will never hit ground, get wet (it's in a waterproof bag), and with proper strapping, it's not going to move around at all. So far, not a single problem with my laptops.

So, I'm not sold on the great marketing and cool pictures or looks of the metal panniers, and I never will be. I can carry as much or more, with a fraction of the cost in both dollars and weight, so why bother?

I haven't added the Wolfman Crashbar Panniers...which are really cool too and provide that much more room. Those are next.

Here's a pic of my last trip I took between Christmas and New Years of 2011. It was a road-only (back roads, little gray lines, no highways) trip, so no real off-roading, hence the clean bike. Oh, and it rained the whole trip, hence the rain suit. But, alas, everything was as dry as when I put it in!

F*ck metal panniers...don't get sold on the marketing!! They're not what they appear to be.

Cheers...and have a great and safe 2012!~

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