Fixing panniers to a frame
 

I am reasonably certain that I will be making my own panniers rather than buying a set - purely because I know what I want them to do - for instance they will have a solar panel on the side to charge batteries. They will also have the capability to have a 5 litre can for extra fuel attached occasionally. Neither are features on any pannier I have seen to date.

So, given that I am able to design them to suit my needs the thing I keep stalling on is the attachment method. I would like to be able to remove them within, say, 20 seconds each but for them to be secure as they can really be if they stay attached. What systems do people use / suggest? The frame will be round tube of around 20mm diameter. Attachment points can be added to suit on the frame and on the panniers.

Thanks for your help

There's all sorts of fixing options around but for the half a dozen sets of panniers I've made for myself I've defaulted each time to a simple, easily 'blacksmithed' method that I cribbed from the 1970's Craven approach

Basically you weld two upright pins about 5cm long to the centre of the top rail of the loop. Craven originally used 1/4" (6.25mm) pins but I've been using 8mm - sourced from two cut down long bolts. The 'female' receiver part on the pannier is made from 8mm i.d.fuel injection hose clamped tightly into a two part strip steel mount. This assembly is bolted at each end to each end of the pannier. How far apart they are determines how far apart the pins are. Recently I've been making them different distances on each side so the panniers can't be mixed up. A flat 'penny washer' welded to the bottom of the pins acts as a seat and if you make the pins a little longer + leave some thread showing you can screw nuts on as a security measure. They're not normally needed though. The pannier just sits on the pins under its own weight.

That fixes the top. At the bottom, where the pannier meets the bottom pannier rail, I've used a two part 1/4 turn Dzus fastener to locate the pannier. This bit doesn't take any weight, it only locates in and out etc to prevent the pannier swinging or moving up. A short handle welded to the Dzus head - the bit fixed to the pannier frame - makes it quick release. A quarter turn and lift the panniers off the pins.

On my main set that I made around 20yrs ago that system has been totally fault free. A mini version of it has also been fault free on my little 125 tourer for the last 7-8yrs but a modified version on another bike where I clamped the top pins rather than welded them ended badly when the clamps rotated. Welding is the way to go. Drill right through the tube so you can weld the pins top and bottom.

A picture, as they say, is worth 1000 words but as I can't find one I hope the description is helpful. The system isn't particularly elegant but done properly it's close to bulletproof.

Backofbeyond, I'm curious (although may have misunderstood): are these panniers really so easily removed without tools, locks, hidden latches, or secret decoder rings? Do you worry about that at all?

I've never enjoyed the fussing necessary with my Happy Trails panniers (partially empty the pannier, laboriously unscrew two fine-threaded knobs apiece, pull and lift pannier off frame, then re-load whatever you removed to access the knobs), but at least it's necessary to have access to the inside in order to remove a pannier.

Thanks for any thoughts.

Mark

Hi Mark. Yes, the basic setup as I outlined with the panniers sitting on the pins and clipped in at the bottom with the Dzus fastener is very quick release. Put your hand round the back, undo the Dzus 1/4 turn and lift them off. That's it. Putting them on is just as quick. One of my sets work just like that.

You can engineer security into it with a bit more inconvenience. One of my other current sets has a threaded part of the pins protruding a cm or so above the rubber pipe when the pannier is in place so you can screw nuts onto the pin to prevent the pannier being lifted off (unless the thief happens to be carrying a spanner). A previous set had the turn handle on the Dzus fastener extended so it could padlock to the pannier loop (or more accurately, to a welded on extension). I've used bolts in place of the Dzus fasteners before to locate the bottoms before. It increases security but slows down removal and after cursing the time it took to get them off in the rain on a few occasions I went back to the quick release option. An early experiment used wing nuts as the bottom fastener, tightened up beyond finger range with a custom made spanner - half a turn and then they'd spin off. That works ok but I prefered the Dzus route. It would be easy enough to weld matching brackets to both pannier and frame to take a padlock but I've never bothered with that so far.

I don't have an engineering background or that much in the way of workshop equipment (tools, welder, couple of drills, hammers etc) so anything I cobble together has to be closer to blacksmithing than engineering. That means my designs have to be robust and simple to construct / maintain. Anything that involves slot in locks etc is beyond my capacity to manufacture so would have to be taken from some other professionally produced source as a spare part. I recently got a set of Metal Mule type fixings for nothing so my next experiment may use those. Early days yet with that though. I do have some pictures somewhere that I'll try and find. They were on Photobucket but those have gone now.

Thanks for the details. I'm never in favor of worrying about stuff that doesn't warrant worrying, and maybe this is an example.

Mark

I've got an old set of Krausers as well as a 10yr old set of Givis and looked at how they work the fixings but it's all too sophisticated / industrial for me to copy. Some of the stainless steel pannier to frame locks on the Krausers are nicely done and I keep thinking I should make use of them, but for 'overlanding' I've usually defaulted to systems that can be shade tree fixed if necessary. KISS as they say.

I think if I was starting from scratch now I'd be seeing if there were any secondhand industrial sewing machines on eBay and make my own soft luggage.

My panniers hook on to the frames with simple system - the brackets is basically a channel with a longer section that is silicone glued and pop-riveted to the body of the pannier. A single hole drilled through the frame into the pannier with a wing nut (on the inside) prevents it from being removed from the frame (for security) and a strap around the box stops it from moving when riding. 20+ years and still works

I use these fake pelican cases
 

https://www.princessauto.com/en/deta...ox/A-p8486037e

These fake pelicans are quite sturdy. At $90 Canadian pesos each, I would have a hard time building them for less. Trouble is, nefarious people see these cases as containing something valuable and try to take them.

I have a similar setup as posted above that uses pins on a bar bolted at the top of the case drop into loops on the frame and I use a bungee around it to keep it in place. You have to undo the bungee and lift the case off. The pins that drop into loops have holes to slip a padlock through for security.

I'm of the mind that if I go down in a bad way, I want the pannier to pop off and not break the frame. Whatever protruding brackets or pins remain on the frame I want not to stick out far enough snag and break frame. If I have a go-down, I don't want to have to look for a welder to fix my bike frame. If the pannier pops off, it is less likely to get destroyed in the bumping slide-to-a-stop. If the pannier bursts and my soiled gonch are all spread out like a yard-sale and I gather my stuff into garbage bag and move on. If my frame is busted, thats a different matter. Somethings got to give. Make it not be the frame of my motorcycle.

For one-up riding, I like panniers mounted so the top is a couple inches down from the top of the seat. Then a duffel bag or pack can bungee to the tops of the panniers across the seat and be well supported side to side. If you end up riding two-up and the passenger is sitting on the hard plastic of the tops of the panniers, a rolled-up sweat-shirt or something can pad the tops of the panniers for temporary torture relief.

I had a set of Krauser quick-release bags on a street-bike years ago. They had a habit of quick-releasing at random times whenever they felt like it. Fortunately, they didn't explode, they just slid off the edge of the road all scratched up. Now a bungee goes over them for safety, and rope tied through the bag handle and the frame for another layer of safety. Bungee straps are bodgey but they work.

5 seconds
 

Hi Jay, are you still looking for a fix here..?? If you are, I have a simple method that takes less than five seconds to disengage each pannier. The pannier loops are modified BMW GSA loops. If you are still looking I'll post on here what I did.

MEZ

Hi Mez,

Don't know about Jay but I would be very interested to see these modified GSA loops.

Thanks

GPZ, no problem, bikes coming out later, I'll do some fresh pics with an explanation [emoji851][emoji851]

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Devil's advocate chipping in here.

Solar panels on the side ???

Solar panels aren't even very good when you point them at the sun on a clear day.

When they're sideways and probably covered in dust or road sh*t, I can't imagine them being very effective.

And what if you drop the bike ???

Agree, solar panels on a bike is verging on the 'gimmicky' side of things, fixed on a bike....?? Wouldn't bother myself and that's coming from someone who has a built in shower system on a travel bike...[emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji2962]

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Now that I want to see......:rofl:

Solar panels on the panniers - works for me. Just have to come up with some covers to keep the crap off. :rolleyes2: Probably best to go for the Irish ones - charge 'em by night :rofl:

I am indeed. As long as they don’t interfere with the solar panels.

Alpos Panniers Homemade Mounting
 

See attachments for Alpos panniers on a R1200GS. Panniers are commercial but racks were Givi Triumph items modified to suit and mountings homemade. Works OK - secure and reasonably theft proof. If thumbscrews are mounted near the top of the pannier, no need to empty pannier to remove from rack. Should be self explanatory from attached photos.

Ignore the welding quality and focus on the simple design of using a wedge effect and loading principle https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...a26b31d493.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...c5efca8de6.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...f86adf574b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...99730b202a.jpg

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Mez, thanks for posting the pictures.

That looks very secure - I shouldn't think there is any movement which must be essential with what look to be quite heavy cases. Is the velcro on the catch for wet gloves?

Tell me that's aluminium cheque plate and not steel !!:eek3:

Velcro is to hold the padlock secure whilst on the move..

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Anyone who builds steel chequerplate panniers would definitely require sectioning and kept away from road users..!!! There not heavy at all believe me...

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Met, Thank you for that - an elegant solution. Well, apart from the the welding!

One quick question that I cannot figure out - it may be just me, it normally is. The clamp / clip to hold the pannier to the frame is pulling the pannier towards the narrow end of the wedge - is there a reason for having it that way rather than pulling it to the widening wedge that would, to my mind at least, have pulled it in tighter.

It is particularly good as I will still be able to fit solar panels ;)

It's a head screw, difficult to work out, the clasp is stopping the whole job from moving down the wedge as well as keeping it firmly locked in place. It is, simplicity at play and works

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Took me some time to work out what the catch was actually doing....

It pulls the pannier forward...

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I've seen it......

Remember those Steel Ammo boxes that were popular as panniers in the naughties. I remember moving one around in a hostel somewhere or another. . I thought "What the hell is in these panniers. They weight a ton".

I later found out they were empty...

Yes, I bought a couple of them from my local army surplus store back when I first started thinking about overlanding panniers. Didn’t take me long to figure out they were way too heavy and they ended up as tool storage chests in my garage. One of them is still there to remind me not to believe everything you read in magazines (it was pre internet).

Did get me thinking about what was really needed though and between myself and a couple of friends who also dabble in this stuff we’ve probably made 10 or 15 sets for various bikes - some successful, some not, some abandoned half way through.

Well my hand is starting to be forced as one of my ancient BMW plastic panniers has developed a split - it is still useable but if there is one split then it is likely that there are more on their way, but they can't be seen at the moment.

As it happens I have a pair of panniers built, but for the lids and will now be sorting out the fixings to the bike rack probably very similar to Mez's design.