Fuel bladder... to carry that essential extra fuel!
 

In preparation for our next trip I am doing some research. I would be reluctant to replace the fuel tanks on our travel bikes. (cost a lot!)

However carrying jerry cans is not ideal, they are bulky and for most of the time you don't need really extra fuel.

I came across these "fuel bladder" in goggle:

www.liquidcontainment.com.au, Motorbike fuel tanks, Petrol Bladder, Diesel Bladder, Av Gas bladder Tanks

Has anyone used them? They seem too good to be true!

Also no clue of price!?

On our previous trip we used collapsible fuel containers, but they were for single use only (lucky as we only needed them once in South america!). It was not possible to fiddle so that we could reuse them.

cheers,

If you go to ADVRider here:
The Toolkit Thread - Page 2 - ADVrider

Look for message No. 20 at 09-06-2007, 08:13 PM, by 'hilslamer'.

At the end of a long line of photos you find reference to a makeshift fuel bladder made from a Starbucks coffee carrier.

Looks pretty neat so I think I'm going to see if they're available in England.

I've got one of those liquid containment bags. They're awesome. The bloke lives just around the block as well, which is handy. Only had to use it once on Ruta 40 short tracking the fuel stop.

10l was AU$150 when I got them. Just roll them up when you don't need them. Don't stick them in with other stuff when you're done using them, because plyurethene seems to permeate the smells and everything will smell of fuel.

I would be surprised if it worked to be honest.. the plastic is not made for petrol....i would think it would desolve fairly quickly..And if it did work would you trust it...and get stuck somewhere...?

tmotten thanks for the feedback. I sent an email to the company (well more precisely I filled the online form!) as you can't order via their website! I hope they deliver in the UK! I am definitely keen on a couple of those!

Not too keen guys on "makeshift stuff". If desperate I'd rather use a bottle of coke or soda. But I'd rather get proper good quality stuff that I can reuse on multiple trips.

That's the problem with changing the fuel tank. Once you sell the bike you have to do it again on the next. I wasted too much money on preping up my previous bike, all that for the little bugger to self-destruct!

Next bike for next big trip I intend to spend minimum in built-in prep-ups and ensure that what I spend is in stuff I can easily remove and reuse in another bike, regardless of model.

follow up
 

Please can you let us know what he says?

Whether there is a discount for multiple orders and the possibility to save on shipping costs? :thumbup1:

Fuel container.
 

Check this out as a cheaper alternative.
Army Issue Roll Up water Carrier from Surplus and Outdoors / Water Carriers
It's 20l with a couple of handles/tie down points.
Not meant to be a fuel carrier but it is petrol proof (did a 6 week storage test).
The tap isn't suited to petrol but can be easily blocked off.
Dave.

Whereever I've needed extra fuel capacity I organised Coke bottles (whatever size you can get locally), 4 litre oil containers and even plastic milk cartons. Use them for that part of the journey and then bin them. IMHO, Coke bottles are the best: sturdy, leak proof tops, don't need a funnel to pour content into fuel tank and the nozzles at filling stations fit in the top.
cheers
Chris
PS And they are free

I went for an aux. tank for the reasons stated here:

https://sites.google.com/site/threew...d-improvements

One thing this does solve is if you sell the bike or want the weight off. Also, much cheaper than big plastic tanks from well known accessory shops. It is of course a permanant fixture even if empty.

In terms of back up bladders, the coffee idea probbably isn't that daft. For reasons of cleaning and ease of production, the plastics used in the coffee bladder are probably the same as those used for wine bags/boxes. As wine is fairly similar to petrol in terms of attacks on polymer structures, I'd expect one to last weeks rather than days. Still disposable rather than reusable. Same argument goes for coke/milk bottles too. If you do end up using this back up, wrapping in a black bin liner will slow any degredation even further by keeping UV out.

Plastic washer bottles off trucks offer another semi-permanant alternative.

Andy

coke bottles
 

Yes, coke bottles are fantastic at storing fuel when needs must. Mainly because a) they don't leak and b) they're free.

They are also cylindrical, a pain to lash onto bikes securely and have to be filled individually at a painfully slow rate.

I think big tank is the way to go, with some bottles/cans on the few extreme stretches.
Canisters and bladders is extra equipment that you have to take care of and the more seldom you use it the bigger is the risk that it fails when you use it.

Yes a big tank is expensive but why do you want to sell the bike after your trip? You can make it even better and use it for the next trip, and the next trip…..

In europe it is illegal to transport fuel in anything other than an Approved Fuel container. These are, generally, the steel jerry can or a plastic can of either 5 or 10 lts.
Having a friend in the Insurance industry, I discovered that some insurance companies specifically state that petrol Must Not be carried in the boot of the car. You can just imagine what they would say if they discovered you were carrying petrol in a plastic bag on a bike...:eek3:

My own personal view is that you would need to be nuts to consider such an option as a plan from the start....I would really have to be in a tight jam to consider...

You're right - big tanks are the way forward but:
1) they're more expensive.
2) usually bulkier and heavier than standard
3) often require extra taps/management of the quantity of fuel in each side.
4) not realistic to take off if you need to lift a heavy bike up on your own.
5) spend most of the trip only half full because you just don't usually need that much range!

not the point..
 

"My own personal view is that you would need to be nuts to consider such an option as a plan from the start....I would really have to be in a tight jam to consider..."

There aren't really aimed at people for Europe. Besides, if you need to use one you probably aren't going anywhere with nosey police or insurance agents...

This allows you to take on extra fuel when you really need it, at minimal cost, and without affecting the basic layout of your machine. This isn't strictly a plastic bag - it's a fuel bladder. Would F1 cars use 'plastic' bags to stop fuel leaks when tanks getting punctured? Yes they do.

Oh, I've just had an email from the Bennetts representative in the Congo.
He says I can put my fuel in whatever I like :thumbup1:

(ignore the last comment)

1) Yes but if you divide the price on 100kkms or more…
2) Not necessary heavier (my 43 liter tank is lighter then my 33 liter) and it carries the fuel lower then the original tank.
3) Is that a bad thing? You can double up with fuel filters, easier to fill your cooker etc.
4) If that’s a problem a bit of practice would help. I’m not athletic but I have no problems to lift up my bike with luggage and 43 liters of petrol.
5) I always fill my tank 100% but on average it’s half full :-)

Where in Europe would you need a jerry can anyways?

1) 99% of bikes don't reach 100kkm. Divide by what? It's still more expensive
2) If you already had 33ltr you're in the wrong thread. I was thinking about bikes with half that!
3) I ride bikes not 747s. If I wanted to pump fuel around my bike I'd be in a different hobby :)
4) Lifting it up off the road in front of your house doesn't count
5) So you're always carrying twice as much fuel as you actually need?

Look, I'm only joking but I wanted to continue this thread to find out what sort of options are out there. I did the big bike/big tank thing and want to see if I could have more fun on lightweight thumper somewhere between here and siberia using something like this. I'll stop now..:thumbup1:

SMARTARSE....:laugh:

I have seen a DR350 with a similar tank (43L). The same statements are valid, except that the bike will probably not last 100kkm but he can move the tank to his next bike.

Plastic jerry cans are what the locals use in these far flung places...and there's a reason. And if it makes you feel better...they're well tested by locals and by me.
I used 4 cans between Morocco and the US. 2 of them made it all the way...they other two were stolen. I didn't exactly lose sleep over that.

Pics...

dscn8559.jpg

new_crashbars.jpg

Plus, I'd rather give my $$s to a local bloke in Mauritania for a jerry can...than $150 for a bladder....that if it breaks, I'd still end up paying the local guy...

We don't need to prep too much before a trip...or else you'll worry about how much stuff costs when it breaks...try the local methods...its part of the adventure.

Security of kit, ie. opportunistic stealing, is always a concern. I think you could help yourself by putting the bladder in a packsafe for example. In any case, my soft panniers will be a magnet for opportunists anyway.

We didn't lose a single item to stealing between UK and Namibia, when my tent was rifled and a camera/phone stolen. We were careful all the time until then when we let our guard down (but not paranoid either).

I guess it depends what you are looking for….

When you need to carry extra petrol you often need to carry extra water.
Lets say you will need 15 liters extra petrol and the same amount of water. Then you need to carry 30 liters in bottles/canisters/bladders and that’s not nice… This usually happens on places with no roads or bad roads.


This bike is loaded with 15 liters extra fuel and 15 liters of water, look how vulnerable the canister looks:
http://www.actiontouring.com/pic/01_ALG_0010.jpg

I have “lost” 5 liters when some thorns punctured a canister and it was not nice. Canisters and bottles all over the bike are not safe so I like to carry all the petrol in my tank.

If it’s only a matter of a few liters it might be okay.

Yes...I agree...about the water part...but that's something as a rider you have to be aware of...and make your calculations on the situation that lies ahead.
Relative to carrying extra fuel, I disagree on the big tank being a necessity. If you calculate the kilometres/miles you'll get from your jerry cans, then you'll know exactly when to stop, and fill your tank, with fuel from your jerry cans.
If you choose to refuel when your main tank runs dry instead of when your main tank has enough space to empty your full jerry cans, then you're choosing to increase your risk instead of minimize it.

I'll bet I can get Bennetts in the UK to agree to that too. There again, they think Morocco is in the EU, a leading link fork is some sort of electrical device and a Moto Guzzi is a Chinese grey import :rolleyes2:. (All true conversations I've had with their call centre. Devitt DA think a Ural has a built in intercom too????).

Big tanks are seriously overpriced. I added 8 litres for an extra 120 miles to my old F650 (carbed) for almost £400. That's £3 per mile over the bikes standard range. Norman Hyde want £800 for 2 gallons extra/90 miles/£8.80 per mile for the Bonneville. My auxilliary tank cost £70 for 10 litres and 100 miles on the Bonneville, or 70p per mile. A 10 litre jerry can would be down at 15p per mile with the hassle of having to stop and empty it into the bike.

The Acerbis tank broke it's fuel tap after a year (£30). The Aux tank is all welded, but I supose the in-line tap could go (£14). The jerry can is disposable, but they tend to last forever. The bladders replace the jerry cans very well, but take up a lot less space when empty.

To me they key is how often you use the range. I can easily go 200 miles without stopping, so a 120 mile tank is useless in Wales on a Sunday. I have come close to running out a 430 mile range F650 and a 420 mile range Bonneville two or three times. I can justify £150 worth of Aux/jerry can/bladders, but £400 of plastic, never again.

Andy

It's not a necessity, it just makes things easier and maybe safer.

I did not get a response last time.
I filled 2 forms of his online site today and hope he will answer.
If not phoning may be next option.
What is the time difference btw UK and OZ Gold coast????? (where ever that coast is!) ...

Here you go, Maria. GMT +10 hours
Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia

BTW, I wrote to Paul at LC around this time last year looking for backup for my bike for crossing Saudi. He wrote back and answered my questions several times and even offered me a 'second-hand' bladder at a reduced cost.

It was still a bit pricey though and I ended up taking a 5-litre plastic fuel can (which didn't leave my bike until removed by a nice man on the channel ferry on grounds of safety). :)

Stephan

These look pretty good...

ATV Fuel Pack | Fuel Packs | ATV Fuel | Gas Container | Gas Can | Fuel Storage | Kolpin | Gas Cans | Jerry Cans

Just be a bit cautious about flexy tanks and petrol. The military can get away with them, but for civilian use (in Australia and elsewhere) the tank has to comply with a whole series of tests and have a UN roundall with an approval number stamped onto the tank. I've looked for the Queensland approval number and cant find it, and the product is not listed as an approved tank for the last dangerous goods code, in the issue that I have 2005 (photos are 2003 so would have assumed that approval would have been granted). Diesel is not a dangerous good so it can be stored in these flexy tanks without legal problems.

Be wary - no business address, no Australian Business Number (two strikes against the business laws in Oz) and only a mobile phone number on the website that I could find.

Thanks for the infos guys! :thumbup1:

I will be careful. There is no address of the business in the website which is unusual.

I would not worry too much able "legal" usage of the bladder though as I would plan to use it through Kazakhstan/Mongolia/Siberia and I don't think it would be an issue over there!

Other possibility are the very nippy jerry cans suggested by flyingdoctor.
I could get something built on the bikes to fix these....

I'm just playing with possibilities at the moment. I have to fill my long working days until departure date by something fun to do!

Maria
Have a look at what Paul Read did on his VFR for some ideas. He put a petrol tank on one side and water on the other.
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_ym1QUX_zY9A/SO...lly_packed.JPG

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_ym1QUX_zY9A/SO...water_tank.JPG

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_ym1QUX_zY9A/SO...k-mounting.JPG

Stephan

crash... boom...
 

That looks a bit scary to me. The first thing to hit the ground in a fall is the plastic petrol can.

No, it's fine. There are rubber mushrooms in place on the ends (centre of the tanks) to protect the bike and tanks in the event of a fall. He designed it well. :thumbup1:

But even without the mushrooms, would there be any difference to if a bike (like mine) with a plastic fuel tank goes over?

Stephan

Some options, info
 

Check out:

Collapsible Utility Bladder - $119.99 : Just Gas Tanks

Some feedback on your original product choice

• View topic - Fuel bladder

Paul at Liquid Containment was all good when I dealt with him. Didn't even mind me meeting him at his place, and went out of his way to deliver the good once as well. It's a small operation though.

He supplies the life savers with fuel bags for the boats as well. Mate of mine took the bags accross the simpson on several occations. Plenty of info on Advrider.

Interesting. That's exactly the bag I've got. Wonder if they contacted LC direct.

Yes it is the same, Paul told me he had a retailer in the US. He manufactures those but do not retail them. He was looking for a retailer in Europe. I contacted Ernie at Overlands Solution and Ernie will be selling them very soon.

details in this thread I put earlier today:

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...lable-uk-43442

Ask Ernie for it at the Ripley meeting!

Cheers,

Have to disagree on Coke or similar bottles being a pain to lash securely to the bike. I put two 1.5 liter bottles in a sturdy plastic bag, knot the bag at end, and lash with a bungee between the bottles over the seat, or atop a soft bag on the seat.

Solid as a rock. Use the same technique for carrying two or even three bottles of water.

I definitely prefer Coke/water bottles for fuel when needed vs. a costly bladder thing that you're obliged to tote along even though you have no use for it 98% of the time.