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Avon or Mitchelin
On my R80G/S I find Avon distanzia fine on the road, I get about 12,000 miles from a rear, 20,000 from a front, for gravel roads Mitchelin T63 are pretty good but only about 6,000 miles from a rear and 10,000 from a front.
This is changing them with about 2 or 3 mm of tread left. I think the best alround compromise were the old Avon gripster, still listed in 130-17 and 90-21 sizes but I am not sure of availability. |
What a great thread! Hadn't seen it before.
Good to see it resurrected! My last decent trip ( a lifetime ago, it seems) Two-up on a 1150 GS: about 7% gravel, dirt and rocky trails, so not too demanding: TKCs front and rear. + Surprisingly good grip on tarmac, especially in the dry Adequate grip in the dirt (except mud and sand) from my inexperienced perspective. - Not very hard wearing (see road handling above!!): About 13000km front, and 5000km rear (6000 at a push) No longer the cheaper option... Availability (Hard to come by in South America) Next time I hope to try Heidenau K60s on my Transalp, although most of my big trips will now be with an outfit... Had limited experience of Mefo ME99s http://www.mefo.de/gfx/logo_produkte/1110452814.jpg Knobblier than they look on a photo, yet seemed to grip well on the road. Cheaper than TKCs, but more than K60s (same factory, apparently) Not enough mileage to give a good review, though. |
Just did a weekend of dirt biking on my 650 Dakar with TKC's that I'd gone to Morocco with. They have about 5000Km on them, rear is looking a bit worn. I found they worked GREAT on everything except mud. The tires (and probably my technique :)) almost completely failed, bike would just head out in its own direction.
I did Tichka Pass in Morocco with these tires (100's of lovely hair pin turns) at quite a tempo and the TKC's were GREAT. I have yet to see it fail on tarmac. They go GREAT on fast gravel. |
Heidenau K60s in Morocco on BMW F650GS twin
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Just used a pair of Heidenau tyres to Morocco and back, including a few 100km of piste:
Heidenau 140/80 T-17 Tyre K60 (Catspaw) £89.10 Heidenau 110/80 B-19 Tyre K60 (Enduro) Scout £95.04 Seemed expensive (others are 20 quid cheaper) and took a long while to bed in, but once there, worked brilliantly for what they are, even in deep sand or on sodden Spanish motorways. On a big bike they felt as good as TKCs I used last time. Gave the bike back (fitted these especially for the trip), but looks like they'd last 10k back and 15k front at the rate I rode, so a great overlanding tyre. Will be getting some for my own bike. Pic below, rear after 3800 miles, end of the trip. Full review on my AM website. Chris S |
Trip from Belgium to Capetown at the west side, then to Nairobi (Kenya) and from there back to Windhoek (Namibia) + 500 km from Frankfurt to my homeplace in Belgium. Total : approx 40000km. I drive a BMW G650 XChallenge.
I started with almost new Metzelers Enduro 3 Sahara at home. I took also a pair of Michelin Desserts with me. In Dogon Valley (Mali) I changed my Metzelers to the Michelins. I was lucky, I met an Italian and I could buy an other pair of Desserts from him. With my first pair of Desserts I could drive until Yaoundé (Cameroon). With the second pair of Desserts I just could reached Windhoek (Namibia). There I could buy a new pair of Desserts (my third pair) and I drove with them until Capetown. Because from Capetown to Nairobi (Kenya) it was almost all tar, I bought a new pair of Metzelers Enduro 3 Sahara in Capetown and I toke the used Desserts as luggage. I could drive with them from Capetown to Nairobi and back until Livingstone (almost border Zambia with Namibia). With the Desserts I could drive to Windhoek, and after taking the plane to Frankfurt, I could drive the last 500km home from Frankfurt. So I used 2 pair of Metzelers Enduro 3 Sahara and 3 pair of Michelin Dessert. For me a pair of Metzeler Enduro 3 Sahara are good for about 10000km and a pair of Michelin Dessert are ok for about 6500km. I have to say: I don't drive slow. :scooter: |
Heidenau Scout K60 front and back
Two sets now, the first set was mostly the hot rough Australian roads - 20,000km I just replaced the new set recently, installed them in Frankfurt, they lasted 25,000km and still had some tread on, probably get a few more thousand each I left Germany and am in Kazakhstan, I fully expect these to get me back home to Oz, maybe after the Mongolia dirt roads I may readjust that but will let you know Cheers TS |
The Scout K60's look good. These also seem to be easier to get hold of than the Mefo Super Explorers? I'm thinking of using the K60's for Morocco next year (I have an F800GS). My only 'concern' is that I've read that some people have had issues with the new 'band' down the centre of the Scouts that wasn't previously there on the older K60's, or indeed on the Mefo's. Good / bad / indifferent, what are peoples' opinions of this feature of the Scout?
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The tyres I used on the BMW described above were #1 and 3 in the line up below and they were fine on dry piste and wet roads.
My current bike runs a pair of #1s. Bigger bikes run chunkier K60s. Ch |
On my r1200gsa Hiedenau is good for the rear but on the front the tyre tracks like crap. As a result the front gets a TKC 80
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Now have 18500km on my K60 and rear tyre still can do 3-4kkm.
Bike has been fully loaded all the time (doing my RTW). Really recommend these tyres. |
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Tried out the new Michelin Desert "Race" this summer. Better grip than the old Desert, a lot more flexible, and what surprised me was the tyre life was very similar (6000-7000 km). Only for the single cylinder bikes. The 950 / 990 guys should still use the stronger stiffer classic Desert.
http://images.motorcycle-superstore....-Rear-Tire.jpg |
Heidenaus have been great
We are using heidenau K60's front has done all of Canada, Alaska, back to the States, then uk and now half of Europe. Front is now up to 24k and still has plenty left. Rear lasted 20k. All two up on bmw 1200gsa fully loaded. They are a grat choice if you want long life. They are not as grippy in the wet but are good on dirt and tarr. I can't wear them out! Yes the front does track a bit but TKC will not last. Way too soft for long distance in our of the way places. Just my thought fellow travellers.
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We used nearly all mentioned B4. The K60 left not a good impression with us. They dissolved in nothing in the middle of Cambodia just after 4500km, broken parts, cracks all around. To rough surface, too heavy loaded (our bike has 450kg...) and not enough pressure.
Heidenau told us the theses tires are “not made for Xsteam conditions, and sorry“. We used on our Africa Twin the 140 version. From what i heard from the BMW guys they all loved their 150, K60... The 140 was just a disaster for us. Never again. That’s just my personal experience, other people, drivers may have different… For us the best solution is front TKC80, back Anakee II. Lasts forever… The funny thing is that the TKC80 front tire is in Germany 63EUR incl delivery and the cheapest one here in Down Under I could find is 200AUD... :helpsmilie: cheers |
TKC 80 - Like em! 8,500 kilometers on rear and still
I have had a few sets of the TKC 80's and like them.
I currently am running a set on my F800 and have racked up over 8,500 kilometres and the rear still has some on it. The front looks great. I spend a lot of time on dirt but these have seen some highway too. I have not tried to make these last as I just bought the bike and have been a little throttle happy. Coming from a KLR it feels like I got off a goat and onto a stallion so I can't resist spinning up that back wheel. The hold very well in my opinion on asphalt and when aired down, they do well in gravel. Ride s good and noise is low, although I really am not worried about a little tire whine anyway so I may not notice it much. I think the trick is to run max pressure whenever you can. |
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I used an E7 rear and an E10 front, both Mitas, on my recent trip to Morocco. Time was a little limited, and I wanted to ride there and back as opposed to taking the ferry to Spain, so I used some motorways getting there. The rear was good, but the front E10 didn't like the motorways at all, even though I rarely go above 70 (you see more when you travel a little slower:cool4:). By the end of my trip, bits of the tire we coming off, and it was making riding difficult. Added to this were some of the Spanish motorways. At times they were concrete, and had grooves running in the direction of travel. The E10 basically slotted into these groves and the bike steered itself! The worst example of this was coming down a mountain back into France; not at all fun. In the future, I'm going to look at tires with deep grooves in them, as opposed to 'knobbly bits' protruding. At HUBB last year, Zen overland mentioned that the Mefo super explorers might soon be available for the F800; this seems like a winner to me!
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I run a K60 rear and TKC front and the combo works great on everything except wet pavement .
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
KTM 990
Michelin T63 or Metzeler karoo front. Both are good Mitas E-07 rear. Good tyre life but not the best for mud and sand. The KTM eats mud and sand knobblies as a snack, so the E07 is a good compromise. I get about 7000-8000 km from a rear tyre. The standard KTM scorpions are just terrible in mud and sand. BMW1200 TKC 80 both. Good tyre life if you keep them hard on tar, slightly over the recommended value. I inflate the rear up to 2.9-3 bar. I tried the Mitas E-10 on the rear but it was horrible and unstable on tar. I also didn't get any more life than the TKC. |
Now I'm running a Kenda Parker DT front and K270 rear on my XT350 Overlander.
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IRC TR8 battle rally
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I have had good results with certain sizes of Heidineau K60's on the rear. The 17/130 was great - good grip, flat resistant, ok mileage (12,000kms mixed riding on a loaded DR650). Front was excellent on the pavement and seems to last forever, but washes out in loose surface. I think acceptable if you looking for a mileage oriented front that can handle some dirt if the speeds are low.
I am currently running a mixed setup of a Mitas 07 rear (17"/130) that I can't comment on yet, and an IRC TR8 battle rally front in 3.00/21" - only size available, so not a viable choice for the larger bikes running 19" fronts. I've been really impressed with the TR8. It is acceptable on the pavement with much less howling then a pair of similar MT 21's I have tried. On any kind of dirt, gravel, sand, or mixed surface it is the best tire I have used. I am expecting around 10,000+km's from the front, so it should change out about the same time as a less aggressive rear like the K60's or Mitas 07. that would be ideal for me, as I prefer to change tires at the same time. I have been paying $50-$60, which puts it in the 'cheap' category for me. My personal theory is to run a 50/50 or more pavement oriented tire on the back, and a more aggressive front. On a loaded 'adventure' bike, rear grip doesn't seem to be as much of an issue, but tire life and puncture resistance are. I am fine with my rear 'drifting' a bit in corners, or spinning, but when the front starts to wash out, I get uncomfortable. A more open knobby tire on the front seems to bite through the sand/ gravel that is on the surface of most trails/ dirt roads, and grips the harder base surface. On the rear, an open knobby seems more likely to get cut by rocks. Just my thoughts. |
Michelin T63's Fr + Rr on a DR650, got about 8,000 kms out of the rear, but its done, maybe another 1500 kms left in the front, they have been pretty good on asphalt too, not quite as planted as a TKC 80 front on pavement, similar performance on dirt, but a lot cheaper.
The TKC80 and D606's are both quite expensive now in Canada compared to the T63's Timo, have you used TKC 80/T63/D606 fronts ? how does the IRC TR8 compare? Ive used MT21's on a KTM Adventure and Yamaha TTR250, they were pretty good, but wear quickly and found them squirrely on wet (British diesel covered) pavement Im spooning on some new T63's today, but might give the TR8 a go next up front |
TR-8 compared
Gipper,
No, I have not tried the TKC 80, the D606 or the T63's. The T63's were out of stock 2 years ago when I left for the CDR trip. From what I have heard about the TKC 80 it is a good tire - for many the go-to tire for any sort of dirt shenanigans on a larger ADV bike. However, I've always been put off by the price/ mileage prospects. From what I gather talking with people, I think the TR-8 offers very similar performance with maybe a bit better longevity, and it is 1/2 the price. As I am fairly convinced that running a more closed in rear is the way to go, my main concern is finding at front that will last as long as a good 50/50 rear (so 10-12k Km's) cuts through sand and gravel to give some grip in corners, doesn't howl on the hwy, and doesn't scare me on wet pavement. I'd like to try the D606 - although friends have reported that the front cups and wears quickly, and the rear wears out pretty fast as well. Guys coming from pure dirt bikes seem to really like this tire, but it is expensive as you point out. I heard that the T63's are not as good as they once were? not sure if that is true - some change of manufacturing. I like the look of the tread pattern, although I still feel that the rear is to open a knobby for loaded traveling bikes. At any rate - no such thing as a perfect tire setup, just choices that have trade off's. My main point was to introduce the TR-8 as it seems to be an obscure and perhaps overlooked option that has worked well for me at a very good price. |
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Eyeing up Mitas for the next ride, but will look at TR8. |
Mitas 07 front
I'm curious about the Mitas 07 front as an option. It has a very similar 'chevron' pattern to the Heidineau K60 and the Metzler enduro 3. However, the 07 pattern has a steeper angle to the radius of the tire, and so looks like it might provide more side bite in gravel or sand, which is my main complaint about the others. Anyone have comments about this?
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I've tried some different tyres on different bikes;
R1200GS(A) - Metzler Tourance: I ended up doing ~100.000km on these tyres, and got everything from 16.000km to 25.000km on a set. It was only until I was the last set I decided that they where not really me (I sometimes take a long time to learn), as the front of the bike started to wash out in tight corners. They are ok in rain, but anything more than gravel might be come an adventure. - Continental TCK80: I never got on with them, I think my breaking point was going down the Pyrenees on a slightly slippy motorway with a truck at my numberplate... I didn't like them much, probably a "between the ears" issue. F800gs - Pirelli MT60: Most fun tyres, sticky on tarmac (also in rain), works ok off tarmac. Don't last long though - I got ~12.000 out of them. And they are reasonably expensive. These tyres will enable one to drag the alu pannies:thumbup1: - Heidi K60: Started out liking them a lot, good tarmac trip, not bad at all off tarmac, but as they started wearing (+10.000km) the solid stip on the rear started to give the tyres some really interesting characteristics in high speed corners (sides were wearing faster than the middle of the tyre), also the front was wearing reasonably fast. They are ok in rain. - Mitas E-07: Good tyre, sticky, works ok in rain. Very predictable, will give notice when before silly things happen (high speed corners). Good wear; I'm not around 17.000km and the rear is at approx. 40%. Front is a "bit" nervous on gravel. G650 xChallange - Mitas E-07: Same as on F800gs, but as the bike is ~50kg lighter will allow to carry higher speed through corners (I do love roundabouts, and fast gravel roads), works ok off road, deep sand is possible, but is interesting. Front seams to be more predictable on gravel than on the F800gs. Don't know about wear as I change to: - Mitas E-09 (rear), Pirelli MT21(front): he,he, fun... can carry corner speed on tarmac, works find in sand, etc. Rain/wet tarmac not bad, better than TCK80's - wear is ok, looks ok after 1500km. My favorite are the Pirelli MT60's, but they are too expensive, so I'll just stick with Mitas E-07 for normal use and E-09's (possibly the MT21 front) for other stuff. Tyre choise is very personal, what I like might not be what you like. |
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Go for it.
Wear will be less, but they are a very capable tyre on road and off road if it's not too muddy I have them all year round on 2 of my bikes - front and rear |
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I bought my 1200 Super Tenere and it had the Metzeler Tourance (80/20) tires. On the road these are great, good grip, helps fuel efficiency, quiet, off road are useless on such a heavy bike. If all you were to do is gravel roads or smooth dirt roads these would be a great tire. If you want to go into the rough, the Heidenau K-60 scout (50/50) are superb. These do not act like a 50/50 tire, more like an 80/20. After mounting the K-60's the bike suddenly seemed to be designed for off-road use rather than merely enduring it. Fuel efficiency fell off (as expected) but the road feel is great (a bit noisy, less grip at serious peg-grinding lean angles). Because this is a tank with two wheels, there are no inexpensive tires made for it (or the GS) but the tires will make or break the ride depending on how you use the bike.
My old beater DR350 has had IRC, Shinko, unnamed made in China tires, etc and I have just mounted Pirelli MT21's which are, essentially, an off-road tire. They sound like a full knobby (wailing, and howling down the road) and ride in the dirt like a full knobby. Shinko 244's were a nice balance of on/off road but the tread is a bit too close (I ride in a lot of clay-heavy mud which turns these into slicks making the ride "interesting"). |
Heidenau K60 Scout
Just did 20,000kms on a R1200GSA with a set of K60 Scouts. Rode around 85/15 tar/dirt and they could have kept going for a few thousand more, still above indicator lugs. Good price for replacement in Guatemala so I bought new ones. I've completed over 50,000kms on K60 Scouts with no scary moments on any terrain incl. the wet. No punctures at all.
I ride light with <30kg of gear in soft bags and I don't scrape pegs or get much above 120km/h. For my riding I wouldn't use anything else. PN |
Mitas E-07 on G650X - 5000 miles
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Mitas E 07 trail tyres on a BMW G650 XCo run for 5000 miles, including a month in Morocco.
Previously tried Heidi K60s and these seemed similar: hard wearing East European tyres but much cheaper and closer blocks. Just £100 for the pair delivered from Oponeo. Great tyre for what I did: mostly road and some rocky piste. Good enough off road in the dry - and no probs at all on the highway or in the rain. Really improved the agility of the bike over the previous Tourances and now only half worn. Pic below is rear 5000 miles in. As for the HUBB discussion here about cracking on these tyres. I can only see 'wrinkles' on mine (as on the K60s at same-ish mileage) but the 650 is light, was lightly loaded and I keep the tyres at road pressures at all times as there is little sand in Morocco + avoids punctures. Few seem to mention it in that post, surely bike weight + power, payloads, tyre pressure and speeds have a lot to do with a tyre breaking up. I recall the same dramas over K60s 'losing knobs at 160kph on a hot day...' Longer version of Mitas with more pics. Ch |
Bridgestone TW101/TW152 Trail Wings on a DL650
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On my 2014 Suzuki V-Strom 650, I got 14500 km (9,000 miles) from a set of the original Bridgestone Trail Wing tyres. Its was almost all rough tarmac roads and fully laden.
Both front & rear wore at a similar rate, and arguably they would have gone another 1-2k ! The state when they were removed. Attachment 15360 |
CB500X Rally Raid with Heidenau K60 & Golden Tyre GT201
Old but unused Heidenau K60 on the front
Golden Tyre GT201 150/70 R17 TL 69V on the back. Both on BarTubeless converted TL rims No complaints as expected, though the stiff and huge 201 recommended by Rally Raid felt like overkill for the little, 47-hp Honda. Five thousand miles in, the rear GT looks less than half worn and the front K60 less than that. Much of this must be down to tubeless at high pressures as well as the engine’s velcro-like traction rather than arm-stretching torque. Would use both again. https://adventuremotorcyclinghandboo...cbx-2tyres.jpg |
WR250R on Mitas MC23 Rockrider knobblies
Mitas MC23 Rockriders (formerly Sava) are dead cheap but I was a bit disappointed how quickly the rear wore on a light, 28-hp 250.
Maybe I've become used to K60 type 'do-it-all' adventure tyres. Great grip on road, trail, rain, rock and sand. https://adventuremotorcyclinghandboo...wrs1-tyres.jpg https://adventuremotorcyclinghandboo...04/wrtyres.jpg Did I mention this? • Adventure Motorcycling Tyres - Do-it-all • Adventure Motorcycling Tyres – Road • Adventure Motorcycling Tyres – Off-Road |
Reviving this thread.
My Honda NX4 came stock with Pirelli mt60s on it. There are fairly good on and off the road, but not good in mud. The rear only lasted me about 8,500 kilometers. From there I put on the Pirelli MT90 AT tires which have been discontinued. They performed about the same on road as the MT60s did, but for me did better off road in dirt and gravel. They definitely lasted longer. I got around 15,000 kilometers out of that set. They actually still had some tread left but the rubber was starting to get a little hard so I changed them out. The current set are Pirelli MT90 ST. So far I think they perform better than the previous ones on road and probably about the same as the last set off road, better than the MT60. They are wearing just fine and I expect to get at least 15-16,000 kilometers or maybe more from this set. This is using them 70% highway, 28 % off road, 2% in town. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk |
Mefo Super Explorer ME99
I have used these on my 990 for a trip to Morocco and back, great on and off road. Even fairly useful in the sand and I expect the mud. No where near as good as dedicated sand and mud tyres but a good compromise on the 990. Just about to shoe some onto a DR650SE for another trip to Morocco, hopefully the same results. On the 990's there is plenty of tread left after 5,000 miles.
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do-it-all travel tyres
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I've updated my do-it-all tyre page, adding the latest rubbery offerings.
It's just a way of seeing them all in one place. They're what I consider optimal tyres for travel biking which involves occasional excursions off the tarmac. https://adventure-motorcycling.com/t...re-tyres-2019/ The attached image below may come up a bit small to read; full size version on the link. |
Pirelli Scorpion Trail 2 on a 650cc Suzuki V-strom
Just adding to the thread for reference :
Front - 22,200 km Rear - 29,500 km Both tyres changed when below legal limit in UK, so got my moneys worth ! Riding style is hard cornering but gentle acceleration & braking. Mixture of paved roads, some rough (Thailand !). Bike usually two-up. The dual compound gives a great life and fantastic grip IMHO. |
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