Eberspacher Cabin Heaters
 

Hi All

Next year I'll be driving a 4x4 (Toyota Hilux Surf, petrol engined) from Magadan in the Far East of Russia, along the Road of Bones and onto the Lena River. I plan to encounter temperatures as low as -50º C, and be travelling in temperatures below -20º C for 6 or 7 weeks.

I will need to sleep in the car much of the time, and therefore really need a cabin heater, as the car's own heater will not be sufficient.

Has anyone got any experience of Eberspacher heaters? I am looking for a good cabin air heater (I don't plan to plumb it into the engine coolant as I will just keep the engine running below -35º C).

Are Eberspacher heaters reliable? Anyone bought one second hand?

I plan to have a separate leisure battery (charged from the cigarette lighter when the engine is running) inside the car to run the heater, and a separate plastic can of diesel fuel to burn (as the car runs on petrol).

I'd appreciate any advice from Eberspacher owners, or anyone who has kitted out and operated a vehicle in these temperatures.

Incidentally, I'll be sleeping inside the car in a -40 sleeping bag and have full, high altitude down-filled clothing (this is not my first time in low temperatures), so it will not be a life-or-death piece of kit.

Cheers

EO

I used to tramp around Europe in a lorry so have spent many a night being woken up by the click-click-click-click-roar of an Eberspacher firing up. Very rarely failed so I don't think reliability is an issue.

I have a Propex heater in my Transit van and that has been super reliable but of course, you'd need to carry propane. I think it's quieter than an Eberspacher and fires up pretty instantly.

Might be worth checking what temperatures both systems will cope with.

Not sure about the Eber, but the Webasto equivalent does have a gasoline option. Lots of Australian motorhomers use Eber or Webasto and even with Australias mild weather, there are many reports of diesel gelling if they happen to get the seasons wrong. Petrol would avoid that problem and you could suck out of your main fuel tank provided you were careful to keep it as full as possible.

I would suggest installing a decent split charger rather than going via the cigar lighter socket. These heaters do not do well unless batteries are fully charged and voltage drops are kept to a minimum otherwise the glow plugs do not get hot enough to get the burn started. They may not draw much current when actually running, but if they cycle often (which is why you shouldn't get a model that is way oversize) the ignition sequence does draw a lot of current and goes on for a couple of minutes so it adds up.

Avoid the later Webasto, way too complicated and we have had no end of issues with them at work.

The early Eber units were all 12v and had a large resistor in line next to the glow plug to drop them for use in 24v trucks. If you can find one, they're bulletproof. Used to be fitted in Mercedes trucks in the late 80's and 90's. Very probably a lot of other makes too, I took the resistor out and used one in a Land Rover.


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Never had an Eber in a vehicle, but did have one in my boat some years back. Never went wrong, was very efficient, but the fan could have been quieter. The only issue I found with it was condensation when in much colder areas, like the East Coast of Scotland and the North Sea. No big deal though.

Yes it is good. You should install permanently and carefully because it has a very hot exhaust out and fresh air in. You should also install electric connection with auxillary battery via 20 amp fuse.

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They are good. Excellent advice about current draw on start up. They are very mean on diesel. Second hand ones are quite common: look on ebay. Often taken out of old ambulances etc. But be warned, they have a lot of internal diagnostics, 62 different fault codes and some lock out faults. If buying second hand check that it works and consider the 24 hour time unit which reads the codes and can reset it.

One thing hasn't been mentioned is that some models- and especially older units - struggle to work at much over 3000 metres. There are add-ons to extend the altitude to maybe 4500mtres at a push. Needed for South America

I've stripped and installed a couple of Ebers, the last one was a D2 Airtronic in my dads boat. Very simple to install, but yes you will need another battery. If you get one, spend the extra on the optional digital thermostat/timer. They're just over a hhndred quid, but have a diagnostic function. Should anything fail you can pull up a fault code.
Keep it serviced, and run on fresh diesel. Take a spare glow plug, gasket set, and gauze and you'll be fine.
They are a doddle to fit, just take your time!

I have a friend who is an official fitter for Webasto in the UK, I do not want to advertise on here but if you want his number I can forward it to you. I am not sure what help it will be as you are in The Netherlands but if you wanted to give him a call for advice then I am sure that would be ok.

Regards Graeme

Hi!

I must apologise that I lost track of this thread, thanks very much for the replies.

I'm frantically building my truck for the trip, shipping out this September and then driving back next Feb in the deep freeze!

The build has taken way more time (and money) on account of finding the engine to be knackered and the suspension to need completely replacing. I'm getting close to finishing that though, but I don't have much time left.

Interested in the Propex heater, will have to contact them and see how propane vapourises in those temperatures. I would prefer a propane cylinder to the need to have an internal diesel tank, the smell would be horrid for one thing...

Thanks again,

EO

Propane has a boiling point of -42 C. At -50 C anything powered by propane won't work.
Charlie

I'm planning on keeping the tank in the car, where hopefully it will stay a fair bit above -42ºC.

Hello,
One thing is your personal Comfort which you cover with your sleeping bag and the Heather. Yes Eberspacher is good and Webasto too, as before mentioned above 2500m you need a "Hoehenkit" ... they have good Webpages i think only Ebers. does the Hoehenkit. I think they both do diesel and petrol heaters so why change to diesel? check the Webpages!
The other thing is your car/truck, you talk about letting your car run below 35 how often can you do that before refueling? whats about your grease points -50 and the grease is as hard as concrete, will you replace the grease. Are your tyres up for it? -50 and the rubber turns into hard plastic, are they new. Why do you need a spare battery if your engine is running anyway? .... think about.
Hope you got it sorted, -50 is serious!!!
cheers
Globi

ups just saw you are going into propane, good luck with it.

Unicat supplied me with an easily installed high-altitude kit for my Webasto Thermo Top C. It is a line going from before the fuel pump two after the fuel pump with a needle valve . One opens it one turn for every 1 thousand meters above 2000 m. It essentially decreases fuel delivery by "shorting" or partially bypassing the pump. It is a low tech non-electronic solution. I can also adjust it electronically.
Charlie

you'll need one with the block heater option, or you won't be able to switch your engine off at night, or in the day!
Below -40 strange things start to happen as some have suggested above. Steel will snap, rubber becomes solid and brittle and you can get that moment of great comedy as you try and set off and your wheels go round but your tyres stay put! The key thing though is to never let the vehicle get cold, or it won't start and things will break.

Hi Moggy

Yep, I will just keep the engine running 24 hrs a day (unless I find a heated garage for a night etc), and will probably leave the transfer in neutral and the gearbox in gear to keep the oil moving around and put a little more load on the engine.

I've actually decided against a heater as it's too much hassle to get an extra fuel tank / gas cylinder, extra battery and all the associated wiring and split charger, just for a week or so at / below -40ºC, I just don't have time to do it all before my intended departure date.

I know that people drive cars in -50ºC so I hope mine won't snap :D The biggest problem I forsee is icing up of the windows inside the car if I sleep in it in those temperatures. I'm currently putting in foil-covered foam insulation beneath all the carpets and behind the trim panels, and I plan on covering all the windows except the windscreen and front side windows with it semi permanently, and having removable ones for the windscreen and front side windows.

Studded tyres will be a must, and decent equipment; my tried and tested -40ºC sleeping bag (was still toasty warm sleeping on the ground with no tent in -20ºC in Mongolia), high altitude climbing parka / salopettes and good base and mid layers.

And emergency vodka.

Cheers!

EO

Ebersabacher ( hydroponic ) come in two basic sizes . 5kw and 10kw.

5kw is more than enough to heat most vehicles.

However, at high altitude they only run at about 30 % so this is the figure you need to look at when deciding.

In addition the 5kw will need an altitude compensator kit which cost nearly as much as the the heater itself.
The 10kw m10 has an altitude compensator built in.

When I bought mine it actually worked out cheaper to it the bigger one.

I am confident that if it runs at only 3kw at altitude it will cope.

In addition the 5 kw runs at full belt or half (2.5 )

The 10 kw can tick over much lower at 1.5 kw and more increments up to the full 10 kw.

This makes the 10kw more fuel efficient.

I use mine to also pre heat the engine ( Mercedes 5.9 lt cast iron block )

In a recent test it started at about minus 15 and after 20 mins the engine temp was at about plus 40 degrees. I was very pleased with this result.

I'm not suggesting that the 5kw isn't a brilliant heater, I am merely suggesting that the 10 kw is also a major option .

Neil

Cloud 9 is Born

Right, time for an update...

Trip did not happen this year as the truck was nowhere near ready... but it is going ahead next year.

Truck is now all working nicely, I have done a lot more cold weather and route research. Will be running super soft studded winter tyres with tubes, all synthetic oils (0W-20 in the engine), double windscreen...

But still have to take the plunge and buy a cabin heater.

For reference, I am getting a cabin air heater, not a block / coolant heater. As said, engine will stay running at below -35 if there is no heated garage. I will have some serious fuel supplies (preferably 250 - 300 litres of petrol I.m assuming 20 to 25 l per 100 km fuel consumption averaged).

The cabin heater is over EUR 1000 so I really want to make sure I am making the right choice.

I am planning on buying a petrol (gasoline) heater, which seems to limit me to Webasto, as Eberspacher seem only to have petrol block heaters. Altitude is not really an issue as I don't foresee being much above 1200 m on this trip, and usually much less.

I have bought a split charging kit which is ready to go in. I will get a second battery... not sure what to go for though, a cheap Hankook 110Ah leisure battery, or an Optima Yellow Top 55Ah battery which is twice the price?? I've had Yellow Tops before and they were awesome, (though I have switched to an Odyssey battery for the main starter; 900 CCA vs 750 on the Optima) but is there any reason not to go for the cheaper Hankook battery?

I will run the heater from a separate fuel tank. This means I can use 80 RON petrol (yes, you can still get it in Russia, I've seen down to 68 RON even!) which will be better for the heater (more rapid combustion). It also means that I could go for a diesel if it were advantageous? It would certainly save some money.

So is there anything I am missing? Any final recommendations before I take the plunge?

Thanks a lot!

EO