What's in a name? Paranormal Springs...
 

After a few bumpy weeks in morocco last winter suspension is definately top of the list before setting off again this easter.
So I'm about to invest in a springs and shocks package and have been phoning round all the bods in LRW trying to find the best deal. So the guy from Rocky Mount tells me that I shouldn't buy anything else cos' they're all inferior, and that his ProComp 9000's are actually different from the other's selling them cheaper, cos they've got a steel tube???, and another chap saying they're overated and over priced?
So does it really make a difference or would I really be paying over £100 more just for a recognised brand like Rockey Mountain, or £20 more per shock for Old Man Emu?
Also, anyone know of any other places I should be trying?

Cheers,

James

[This message has been edited by ManxScamp (edited 19 February 2006).]

James,

Check a few French or Italian magazines or forums and you will see there isn't a great deal of choice. I also once tried to be innovative and burned my fingers. Now I've changed the suspension to what others have been using for years - Eibach springs and Bilstein shocks.

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Roman (UK)
www.overlandcruiser.com

parabolics are good, but make sure you get them coreectly rated to your expedition weight as any undue softness will be magnified over that of a normal spring. One of the reasons for the original multileaf set up was to stop the natural tendancy of leaf springs to twist. The 101 uses parabolics but the spring is much wider, therby limiting the amount of twist. I haven't heard any negative reports of parabolics, but I haven't read of anyone who has used them for expedition use so couldn't comment on their durability running at high weights over hard terrain. If your leafs are old then they are probably rusted together, so negating their ability to slide over each other and significantly reducing the spring effect. You may find that a set of new OE springs, shocks and bushes significantly improves things and is a much cheaper fix. I tend to think there must be a reason why land rover stuck with multileafs even when parabolics were available. A well laden series landy with good leaves is a suprisingly reasonable ride, although never quite in the coil sprung style, but that could be a good thing as it keeps your speed down!!

Andy

TLC H60
Landy 101 Ambie
1968 Morris minor traveller

Hi James
Quick note on Multi leaf V Single Parabolic units.
On a lot of older vehicles especially commercials, shock absorbers were an optional extra because the friction between the leaves does most of the damping under load and some used plastic or leather between each leaf to enhance this but gives a harsher ride.
Single leaf units will always give a better ride but wear out shocks quicker because they are undertaking all the inertial damping and the springs seem to break a lot more often in extreme conditions.
Also its always easier to replace OEM units if one goes bad in the bush and LR do quite a range of Heavy duty units which we used to fit to all sorts of NGO vehicles for the bush.
Hope this helps.

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Rob
Bedford MJ Old, Slow & Orange

[This message has been edited by Bert (edited 19 February 2006).]

Thanks for the responses chaps.
After finally managing to get a ride in a 109 with parabolic springs I was more than convinced of the benefits over my old lumps of rust, at home and abroad. Will be travelling very light most of the time, so loading isn't too much of an issue.

So I'm really just trying to find out what the opinon is of the differences (if any) between the brands?

i.e. Are Rocky Mountain / Eibach really £100 better than another manufacturer?

Also, I haven't seen the Eibach units advertised, where would one get them in the UK?

cheers James.

James,
AFAIK you can't. Try France - maybe http://www.eurofac.fr/

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Roman (UK)
www.overlandcruiser.com

would I be correct in thinking though that, at least from landrover, the right hand spring is a different part number to the left, thereby precluding the use of springs designed for a left hand drive vehicle in a RHD, or have I just had a terrible dream about the landrover parts minefiled!

Andy

Oh, that shouldn't be a problem. Order as normal, only at the time of fitting the parts install a large mirror in your garage ...;-)

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Roman (UK)
www.overlandcruiser.com

funny guy!!!!!!!!!!!

Eibach don't seem to do do leaf / parabolic springs unless I'm looking in the wrong place?

If nobody else has any horror stories about cheap parabolics breaking up in the middle of nowhere then I think I'll just order the standard package from Paddocks tomorrow, with Pro Comp 9000 shocks.

Thanks Chaps.

Oops... they only do coil springs.

As for parabolics, I think Chris Scott has something to say.

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Roman (UK)
www.overlandcruiser.com

[This message has been edited by Roman (edited 24 February 2006).]

Well...

There was a Series 3 that after braking it's parabolics a zillion times and wearing out those indistructible polybushes finally decided to revert back to the original springs (in Cameroon) and bushes (In Nigeria).

Not as comfy, but it lost it's tendency of tipping over, and breaking springs each time it hit the dirt.

All trouble started with a rear springmoount that was moved during one or another bodge. Still, it where the front springs that where breaking appart.

[This message has been edited by Robbert (edited 24 February 2006).]

Do you mean Chris has something to say about parabolics in the later edition of SO (haven't picked one of these up yet), or something to say in general?
N.B. Old Man Emu have stopped manufacturing them for series landies now apparently.

I've ordered mine now anyhow, supplied by ?Bearmach? if this means anything to anyone?

So we'll just have to suck it and see.

I seem to remember CS has made some comments here, but you always can PM him directly to find out.

Like all mods, they will work if asked to do the job they were designed for. I may be wrong but ISTR parabolics are not are made for sustained load carrying, rather articulation and comfort.

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Roman (UK)
www.overlandcruiser.com

Just came across this post while looking for the drum on Pro Comp gear.

>Do you mean Chris has something to say about parabolics in the later edition of SO (haven't picked one of these up yet), or something to say in general?

I tried some TIC protoypes ones in the desert, the backs were hopelesly soft (flogged them in Djanet to a bemused Tojo shop having wisely taken the regular springs as back up) and the fronts snapped coming off a dune (no back ups so 2500 km home on the bump stop - pretty good rubber I reckon!)

Since then I've heard of a 60 with better TICs having no probs in Africa but I also know a Stage 1 LR which snapped its TIC fronts on a medium pothole in Alg and another guy whose fronts snapped twice! Are there extra stresses on the front? The lack of metal compared to a spring pack is certainly disarming but some may have seen that Dakar rally truck wreck out of Chrifa Pass in the Tenere - 20 years old and with 2-leaf paras on the front. So they cant only be for retired Series IIIs. Whatever, it is clear that the shocks will work full time on frictionless paras.

I would like to try paras on my current desert car but it seems they are not being made (yet). I'm going round in circles trying to get OMEs and so am about to settle (not literally I hope) on a Pro Comp kit. Being American where lift and 'maximum tire width' are the main selling factors, I am a bit put off for long range desert but how bad can they be? Any leaf persons have any experience with these?

thanks

Chris S

Is there more load on front????
 

With regards to fronts wearing out and breaking most, its all to do with suspended and unsuspended mass. most 4x4 have heavier front axles with an engine siting above so when you hit hard terrain, one big mass going in one direction (axle) and bigger mass going in the opposite with the spring in-between doing all the work, plus under braking the load moves to the front springs. glad im not a front spring :-)

Tic
 

Chris,
Don't know if you're talking about our 60... (it's a small world afterall)

We have them under our car and are very pleased with them, but I should say I only have experience with this car and when we bought our 60 it really needed an upgrade. The old springs where totally worn, probaly the originals, and with a full tank of gas it rode almost on it's bumpstops.

The (our) story about those TIC's:
We stombled in the Netherlands on a workshop which, at that time, did the distribution. They just had new springs deliverd from a factory in Portugal, the buildquality wasn't as specified by the designer/engineer so they returned them. The next truckload was OK. I think this were the third or fourth generation (you had the first ?) especially designed for Toyota's.
We took the HeavyDuty version (raised the empty car by almost 17cm!!, I said it needed an upgrade, didn't I) and they advised us to use the new shocks Koni just released at that time (HeavyTracks).
After our 6months trip we learned that they've had more issues with the buildquality, the manufacturer and also the designer/engineer and stopped the distribution.
The designer/engineer told them he would do the distribution personally.
Don't know if you stil can get parabolics for Toyota 'cause the oficial website still only talks about series Landrover and Santana's.

Anyway we did a 6months trip into norht/west africa (±28.000km's), and 2 more trips into Mauri. They perform perfect, a very smooth ride (also admited by people with lots of experience with deserttravel and springleaved cars), good ground clearance and good articulation. Because of the space between the leaves and the poly spacers, the leaves don't squeez!

I will try to explain the only 'trouble' the springs gave:
The packets of springs on the rear had a tendancy to shift or twist a little, therefor after a while the small U-shaped pieces of iron (suppossed to keep the leaves in place) started toughing the leaves and at the end they were almost cut through (OK, that squeezed just a little). I reseated the package of leaves and the rear axle but after 10.000k of desert and corrugations they were twisted a little again. Back home I went back to the workshop and we made new thicker and heavier U-shaped things and welded them next to the originals.
That will be sufficient for a while, but I've never seen this kind of wearing anywhere else.

About snapping frontsprings:
I've also heard some stories about snapping them in dunefields in Libya.
I think they are just not designed for jumping around !!
(Chris, you had a photo of a 60 getting airborn on your site, or was it in your book, didn't you).
But seriously, I think the quality of shocks are very imported.
The shocks we use were especially advised by the designer/engineer to work along with his parabolic springleaves.

BTW lots of trucks, lorries and van's are still equipped with parabolic shaped springs.

the type of lateral twist described above is inherant in the design of parabolic springs, and one of the reasons I believe land rover didn't fit them as standard. one way around that is a wider spring, which is how the 101 landy gets away with it (and big trucks and suck like). Normal leaf springs don't flex like this because they are braced by the other springs contacting them.

andy
TLC H60
land101 ambie/camper/ wip
1968 morris minor traveller!

Hi all,

we used RM parabollocs (2+6) with ES 9000 in our LR SWB Series 2 petrol with a load of more than 800 kilos in heavy conditions (rocks, sand and bourbon). After many thousand kilometers stills works great. When heavy loaded it was like a defender.

good luck !