10 day trip of europe.
 

Evening folks, i bought a v-strom 650 a few months back with the idea of doing a trip of Europe next summer, i've allready been to Ireland on it a couple of times and i class the bike as the very best i have ever owned.
Now for the Europe part, my plan is to travel from Callais to Belgium (Bastogne), thru luxemburg to Germany (black forest), to Switzerland (alps), to northern Italy (Turin), to France again (millau viaduct), to Andorra, to Spain (Santander) for the ferry back to Plymouth.
Im estimating this trip to take 10 days from Callais to Santander including 2 days off for sightseeing, im not planning to use motorways or toll roads (except for millau viaduct) and would like to keep my milleage down to about 200 to 250 miles per day.
Being a total newbie to long distance travel im wondering does this sound feasable or am i being very naive with my planning?
Any hints comments or suggestions would be very welcome folks.
Thanks in advance.:mchappy:

IMO it is doable - I was afraid as I read that you would say you plan to ride back to the UK!
However, you will not have a lot of time for sight-seeing along the way. You will value those 2 days dedicated to "tourism".

You may have to accept diverting onto motorways in order to make some distance to your next location - this could depend on the time of year and the general traffic combined with the twistyness of the roads that you choose to ride.

Cheers,

UK-France-Spain-Morocco-Spain-UK
 

Im planning a similar trip from Calais down through Alps to South France, along med coast to Malaga in Spain then travelling via Santander to plymouth.

I did the Alps tour last year as an organised event via a company in UK. We drove down through various places away from Autoroutes etc. We passed through various mountain passes before stopping at Menton for a day. That portion took 6 days about 200-250 per day. We had a day off before driving north a bit more direct.

This time I want to go the same way but travel through southern France to Spain.

Might even get to go to Morocco for a couple of days. Will let you know more when its planned - hopefully.Still working on route so any suggestions & points of interest along the way woul be apreciated also.

Regards
Steven

If the Autoroute goes direct to where you want to be, use it. The tolls aren't extortionate and it gives you more time riding the good stuff.

Taken from the D41
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/b...RIMG0847-1.jpg
It's a very impressive structure.

Thanks for the replys everyone.
Walkabout, i see your point about having to use the motorways to make up some time, and i expect i will have to use them maybe from Turin to the Millau viaduct, otherwise in your opinion is 200-250 miles per day on European a roads a hard slog or fairly easy?
Stevenkirk that trip you took last year is very similiar to what im planning at the moment, makes me want to go right now, especially seeing that pic of the viaduct that flying doctor posted, i saw it for the first time on an episode of Top Gear last year, it looked amazing.
Im taking the v-strom to Ireland again on Sunday for 4 days, hopefully the weather will stay fine!

Adrian,
Now I realise that we all have different ideas of what an optimum mileage day is but in case it helps I did a couple of leisurely bimbles around France last year, one a bit under a week and the other a few days over and I averaged around 180 miles a day.
I found it quite leisurely, which it was, and it left me sufficient time to take in a race meeting one day and some time around war grave sites on another day. Plenty of time for sightseeing in fact.
I also managed to arrive at my destination around tea time each day because that's what I wanted to do.
Anyway, enjoy it whatever you do and hope your weather stays dry this weekend.

That bridge shot is stunning. Where exactly on the D41 is that?

I've done 500 mile days on occasion. It's not out of the question as a one off to get to the ferry. If you've only got 10 days you have to consider a few big 'uns. 250 miles a day is easy if you're riding all day with a stop for lunch. If you want to park up somewhere for 4 hours to sightsee then it will be less. IMHO having looked on the map to go east to Switzerland and then west to the pyrenees is more than 2500 miles. 3 weeks no problem 10 days ? Make it easy for yourself and save some for next year.

Wile e, without trying to sound trite it's exactly where the D41 goes under the bridge !

Ok, apparently I need to rephrase my above question.

That bridge shot is stunning. As an ignorant American I am having difficulty in understanding how the autoroutes are set up in Europe and have no idea of how to locate that exact location. I would love to include that location in my upcoming European motorcycling travels if someone could help me out in locating it. Thanks for any help I can receive.

Alps tour
 

I have zillions of pictures from my tour last year, I even made a DVD, not quite long way round and Im not as pretty but I enjoyed it. Anyway here's one of the many passes we went through.

I have found a D41 in Nord, France but it appears to only run through farmland and smaller towns. I can't seem to locate that bridge on google maps satellite view.

wikipedia link
 

Have a look here:
Millau Viaduct - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wile e, It was a cheap joke and I apologise. The D roads are quite small back roads and you will need a reasonable map to see them. The Viaduct is on the A75/E11 autoroute where it crosses the N992. The D41 runs parallel to it 1/2 a mile to the north. I hope you can find it on Google Earth with these roads.

No worries, my lack of knowledge on the roads in Europe make me an easy mark. Thanks for the information, I'll see if I can find it.

Hi Adrian,
In the last 12 hours you have received replies to your query that are all perfectly valid and I agree with all of them (some days you will ride longish distances and on other days you will be stopping frequently for breath-taking views, sight seeing of whatever, torrential downpours blah blah &, yes, you can end up doing more than you prefer in order to catch some ferry or other - the Long Way Down people are doing exactly that right now and Ewan is not happy!); there are still factors that no one knows about you, such as "will you be carrying a pillion passenger and, if so, does he/she give you "grief" at every fuel stop?".

Very glad to hear that you are off on a short trip soon - no doubt you will use this to get a feel for your own preferences in the daily distances debate.
Let us know what you think after that!

Cheers,

Being Europe, each nation has its' own road classification system (having said that, there is also an EU system in place as well, I believe for just major motorways, just to clarify things :rolleyes2: ).

D roads in France are run by the local highway people; D = Departement, something about the same size as a county in the USA.
Therefore, there are loads upon loads of D roads and the numbers, as you have discovered, can repeat themselves across 100s of Kms of roads.

Having got that out of the way, the very best twisties in France are often the D roads!!

More about French roads
 

I've just noticed that the "As" and "Ns" are mentioned as well:

A: these are the Autoroutes/Autobahns/Autostradas etc, like Interstates in the US.

N: these are the national routes of strategic importance to France but not constructed to "A" standard (can also be quite twisty and of interest to motorcyclists therefore!).

Hi Adrian,
We covered some of the same ground recently and my 2 cents worth would be to take the motorways and cover big miles between the main sights you've chosen in Belgium and Germany to get to the Alps and northern Italy (e.g. the Lakes) spending most time liesurely winding around the mountains and lakes. We were a little disappointed by the Black Forest. Then motorways again down to Millau, winding back roads again through southern France. Cheers

Wile e,
Try these coords in Google Earth: N44 04.861 E3 01.243 - You'll see the tall pilons in place (or their shadows) and the construction work, but no bridge/viaduct road platform as the maps are still too old! We took these photos of the Viaduc De Millau on 4th August 2007:

Nice pics John. I must have missed that rest area under the bridge, good location.

Here's my ride over the bridge.
YouTube - Riding over the Millau Bridge

I was travelling away from Millau and the visitor centre entrance is on the right just before the bridge.

Tee!Hee!!!............................

I see you too slowed down crossing it - everyone seems to but unfortunately a very restricted view from the bridge itself. And the viewing points either side require a bit of a walk. We were there at start of European main holidays, so traffic was thick to say the least and thoe carparks chockers!

The main visitor centre is on the D992 which passes under the viaduc (not D41). The viaduc is on the A75. To get over the top and underneath, we were travelling south over the top then exited the A75 about 4 miles south, after a mile or so turned west on the D999 for 5.3 miles, then north 7 miles to get underneath to the visitor's centre. We didn't pay to sit through the doco movie on its design and construction. I actually saw that in-flight on our Qantas flight home a few months later! Very interesting. Continuing east on the N9 (we avoided Millau traffic) you can get a great view of Millau and the viaduc in the distance from the hillside on the N9/Route de la Caval.
Cheers

Yes a boring video, not much to see. A lovely bridge to view from afar. Millau is a large town, I got lost in there for an hour before making my escape.

It's not easy to make a good video from a bike camera!! Look at all the ones on Youtube et al.

I tried to get B&B in Millau a few years ago, with no notice and in the height of August hols - no chance! It is a very popular town and that was when the bridge was being built - could be more so, with all of the publicity about that bridge.

Gorge De Tarn
 

if your going to the milau viaduct can i recomend you get off the next junction on the way up and go through the gorge de tarn its europes answer to the grand canyon up to 500 meters deep and goes on for about 70 k with vultures and eagles flying above stunning place

I'll second that - got to watch the road there, rubber necking by everyone!!

Thanks everyone for your input, John downunder i think you may have a point in using the motorways between the main points of interest, those are some lovely photos you posted! is that a red camping sign i see behind the pan?, if it is i reckon that must one nice campsite!
Walkabout you are a wealth of info, do you have an emergency hotline number for stranded european travellers?:biggrin:
Flyingdoctor is that a tiger 1050 your riding? how do you like it?, im head mechanic in a Triumph shop and i reckon the tiger 1050 is the best bike Triumph has ever made.
Looks like im also going to have to visit gorge de tarn aswell, sounds nice.

P.S. I will be riding solo and camping every night.

Yes it's a tiger 1050. A superb bike. I've done nearly 15k in 6 months, can you tell I love riding it ? Long distance touring is sooo easy on it. It just ate Europe up this summer. You must visit the col de la Bonette. What a superb road and views from the top are out of this world. Have fun.

I ride solo and camp too. The freedom is wonderful and you actually talk to more locals when you're on your own. If you're heading through Andorra there is a wonderful campsite near Ax les Thermes on the road to Ascou.
Introductie Ascou la Forge | kleine camping | buitensport | outdoor| pyreneeen | canyoning | speleologie | speleo | rafting | kayaken | GGG | SVR | sportieve vakanties | klimmen | rotsklimmen | bergwandelen | grotten | via ferrata | klettersteig | mo Camping Ascou la Forge. It's run by a lovely Dutch couple. I used it for a base for 3 days this summer. A wonderful area. This years Tour de France went right past the site.

adrian74, I did a similar trip in the August just been, in 16 days:
http://www.europe2007.webset.co.nz/August_2/map.JPG
That included a couple of days in Munich, Salzburg, Venice and Groningen just being a tourist.
But, I had to do some serious hours on the motorways to spend decent time anywhere. I did Dunquerke to Munich in one day, and then Freiburg to Groningen in one day. I also spent one very wet afternoon riding across Wales to catch a ferry at Holyhead.

I found some good riding in the Black Forest, and the Alps are amazing ( I did the Grossglockner and Albula passes). Wish I'd made it down to Millau, it was on my original plan but I headed up to Groningen to visit a mate instead.

Good Luck!
Matt

If you don't mind riding everyday full on then perhaps 10 days is enough. However, if you would like to enjoy yourself and your ride, I agree that you may want to save some for another time. I had taken a trip through Europe on an R80GS over last spring and summer. At first I had planned to see a few more countries but decided to change it up to just a few only so I could really enjoy what I was doing taking my time and save the others for another adventure. I suppose it all depends on whats important to you. If you are trying to stay off the motorways and stick with the "Road Less Traveled", I don't recommend doing it in 10 days.
Nathan

France
 

This thread has developed into a good discussion of Europe with some excellent information.

I recommend that anyone takes a glance at the map posted by Matt to see just how big France is: starting at the channel ports, I rode around the "outside" a few years ago, down the West coast, "along the bottom" in and out of the Pyranees, and back up the East side - took about 2 weeks, but I can't remember how many days or 1/2 days I spent sight-seeing.

:offtopic:Can you guys write up about the new Tiger in the Tri forum; seriously, I would not think of looking in here if I wanted to know about that bike (and I do want to know!).

Adrian,
The red "camping" sign: I have 50p that says there is a "no" behind the Pan's headlight!!!!!:rofl:

Failte Matt, thats in interesting trip you took, a lot of miles, nice website too! How do you like Gallway? great town for the 'craic' if i remember correctly. :clap:
Im begining to realise that i may have to shorten my trip or else spend a few long days in the saddle on the motorways if i want to do it all in 10 days (as chasetheday suggests).
How are motorway tolls paid in Europe? do i need a prepaid ticket or do i just pay at a kiosk as i enter the motorway?
I serviced a Triumph bonny for a customer today and he had just come back from a trip to france, he too highly recomends the Millau viaduct and the Gorge de Tarn ( grand canyon with trees as he put it)
Walkabout......because im an optimistic sort of person im going to see your 50p and raise you another 50p the the sign reads "free" camping.:biggrin:

The only other image I have of the red sign is a short video and it is difficult to read the other lines on the sign; however I can read that line ...

It says, "Camping - Cars". I don't recall seeing a camping area (we weren't camping on our trip so we weren't looking) but it all seemed pretty new. The sign is opposite the main entrance and indicates mainly where to park.

Ah! That will be no bikes then!!:rolleyes2: :( :innocent:

Maybe, by camping cars they mean there is an area for campervans, no campsite required.

Yep, mighty craic in Galway, for sure. Just a pity I've only got a few more months here before heading on again.

Motorway tolls, as I recall:
Germany, prepaid card system at most fuel stops.
Austria - Switzerland, vignette system. You pay the toll at the border and get a sticker to put on the windscreen.
Itay - toll booths every so often

I don't recall seeing anything in France, Belguim or Luxembourgh, which means they either run a prepaid system and I didn't notice, or the motorways are free... (not very likely).

Cheers,
Matt

No way is France free, in general anyway.
On arriving at a toll booth for the first time you just take a ticket to get the barrier to open - when leaving the tolled section, you pay - cash or you can use a credit card; they all have staff in the pay booths.

Some of the people I know who live in France have a detector thingie in their car, fixed on the windscreen, which opens the barriers automatically and takes the right charge straight off a credit that is pre-paid. This is very handy indeed when driving a right hand drive car!

The thing is that there are some free "A" roads in France - anywhere near an international border tends to be free, I guess because, otherwise, you would go over the border and use the Motorway system of the adjacent country.

Also, they can be free where there is no alternative "N" route running in the same general direction: this appears to be sensible so that those who don't want to pay do not get off the motorway and block up the adjacent minor roads.

All of this shows up on the Michelin map symbols for the French roads; with a close study of them, you can travel quite some distance without paying tolls + I understand that all major toll bridges in France are free for motorbikes - the Pont de Normandie certainly is/was last time I went that way.

Also for the Michelin maps, look for the green edging on the road symbols - these are the scenic routes.

keeping off the pay motorways in France ( Peages)
 

If you go to Viamichelin.com to plan a route (for all europe) you can select to avoid paying. you can also select scenic routes.

generally what happened when France built its motorway network it left the old road system intact for local traffic. Much of the motorway traffic is pan European goods vehicles.

The Uk largely destroyed the old A road system. There is very little of teh old A11 left butthe old A30 in Devon is mostly still there but either unclassified or listed as a B road.

Changing the subject slightly, anyone know the route to edinburgh taken bythe riders in 'The leather Boys' ? I know the tail end bit was on teh A702 and A72. the beginning Was the M1 when it went from the A406 to teh centre of Birmingham

I just had a look at the viamichelin site (thanks oldbmw) it makes planning a trip very straight forward, i also just finished loading the bike up for the trip home to Ireland in the morning, going to hit the sack soon so i can get an early start.
Thanks again everyone for all your help, ill report on the Ireland trip when i get back (Thursday or Friday).
Bye for now.

Being a total newbie to long distance travel :welcome:

Louis Làmour said" Too often I hear of men speak of the miles covered that day, rarely of what they had seen"

My advice is don`t worry how far you can travel in a day. You may travel 10 miles down the road and find something you do not want to miss. I did that in the Harz mountains in Germany and stayed for 2 days without moving on. I made some life long friends.

It is not about how far you travel or how many countries you visit. It is about the experiences on the journey.

It took me a while to realise it too.

Hello Adrian
 

It's great to read that you want to spread your wings and go touring a bit further. As usual, many others who have much more experience than me have given great advice. That's why I always use HU as my first port of call with any travel queries. But to get back to your original question...................

In 2001 I decided that I wanted to do some Euro touring. I wanted to do some riding on the wrong side of the road and I wanted some guaranteed sunshine. Like you I had 10 days to spare. Coming from Ireland I sailed from Rosslare to Roscoff (Brittany), followed the west coast of France to La Rochell, Bordeaux, went inland to Lourdes, crossed the Pyrenees, went down through Spain, stopped off at Torrevieja, went on to Malaga then returned through Central Spain, over the Pyrenees again, to Poitiers then to Cherbourg for my return sailing. I know it's a completely different route to the one you're thinking of but I'm sure the mileage wouldn't be too dissimilar so the same rules would probably apply. It was a great trip and I made it in 10 days. What did I see??? Absolutely bugger all!!! Sure, I was everywhere, but I didn't have time to stop for a cup of tea! I really enjoyed the experience but I regretted not taking longer to do it. So my only advice is this......don't find yourself being punished by time limits on a trip like yours. You want to really enjoy it so at least have time on your side. Take at least 14 days and stretch it to 18 or 20 if you can. The likes of the Black Forest is amazing and you could easily spend 3 or 4 days there.
In June this year I went to Holland, Belgium, Germany and took 19 days. A great trip and the timing was very good until my bike had a big wee in Holland on the way home.

Hope your plan goes well.
Chris

Hello again, got back from Ireland Thursday night, had a great trip, my family didnt know i was coming home so it was a case of kill the engine at the gate and freewheel around the back of the house, then stroll into the house and allmost kill my mother with fright!:rofl:
The v-strom was excellent, 230 miles to a tank! ferry was smooth and the weather was ok.
Its got me thinking about my European trip and all the advice im getting here, i think im going to do a lot more motorway miles than i had originaly planned and this should give me more time to "sight see" at places of interest, as Steve and Chris pointed out (thanks) theres no point doing massive miles and then realising that i havent actually seen anything.
So far im thinking along the lines of the Millau viaduct, Gorge de Tarn, a trip into Andorra and some of the northern tip of Spain, all places i actually want to see.
P.S. Chris1200, nice to se someone else here from the Emerald isle besides me.:thumbup1:

As you're planning on passing though the Alps you might want to take a look at the alpine roads site.

I'm thinking of a similar trip next year, UK - Alps - Milau bridge - ferry home from Bilbao, probably in about 12-13 days, so I'm also interested in the advice offered.