Using small cc bikes for touring
 

I have posted elsewhere about going to Europe but i want to ask a different question.
I have heard folks have done Europe on all sizes of bikes......however i have been offered a brand new unregistered 200cc Chinese bike. It obviously wont do massive speeds but I'm happy about that.
I have searched this forum for folks driving in Europe on small cc bikes and not found anyone using one..so does any one know if they have.
i will be riding solo and with some luggage
Alternately does anyone have experience of riding one of these bikes long distance?
thanks folk for your time

You could talk to somebody who went RTW on a 110 cc 14bhp two stroke, *2 up*:eek3:

That would be andy atsign indiabikes D O T com.

It wasn't very comfortable, but he did it.

If I recall correctly, there is some discussion about the merits of riding small capacity bikes in this thread:-

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...ighlight=250cc

Apart from that, the subject does tend to come up occasionally in the context of developing countries, where smaller sized engines are commonplace and a "big bike" is not.
Of course, in days gone by here in the UK and elsewhere, a 250cc bike was quite usual and a 500cc was a massive bike - engines have got increasingly bigger, perhaps as Motorways have been developed and average speeds that can be achieved have increased vastly. The same goes for cars and every other form of mechanical transport.
So, what's the point? - well, it is quite possible to use a 200/250cc bike in Europe, but you would not want to use it in the most common way of making distance as quickly as possible: riding motorways - stick to the byways of any country and be prepared to take your time and enjoy the views.

Have a look at posts made by Simon Gandolfi - he is riding a Honda 125cc all across South America - slow and steady perhaps, but he is getting there and he has done it in one direction already.
There is someone else on here making random attempts at RTW on a 250cc Ducati - apologies, I can't remember who right now!!
There again, there are a few in these forums who ride Honda C90s - again, do a search in here.

Summary: no problem in riding a 250cc anywhere in Europe and, IMO, it would be very satisfying.

200 cc is ok but the concern should be where it has made.. chines.. i had 110cc chinese bike some years ago and they are definately not reliable. so take extra care and think twice before you go..

best of luck..

thanks for the reply
 

I will follow those theads up....but the comment on the bike make worries me.....'ve never owned one,,,,,,having in th past only ever ridden big British bikes(of the old kind ll)
i can get this new one tomorrow but wont be riding it out of country til next year...maybe i should just buy and try!

I can't comment on all Chinese bikes, but most of them do seem very similiar as though all the different manufacturers source their components from mostly the same places.
The 125cc Jinlun my daughter has, had a few minor problems when it was new. Many of the fasteners kept coming loose and some of them were made from soft material. Once they were replaced and a couple of other teething problems sorted out it has become very trouble free and reliable. It was used for a daily commute and covered around 8,000 k in about 12 months.
It has toured in France and consistently cruised at 60/65 mph on our motorways.
I'd want to change the chain for a better quality item if it were going on along trip, but other than that I'd set off tomorrow on it.

200cc trip
 

Hi,
Last year on my trike trip to Alaska from Ohio I met a 75 year old man that left the southern tip of South America on March 1. We met in the middle of July at Whitehorse, Yukon Territory. He was riding a 200cc Yamaha dirt bike and had it loaded down with camping gear. He has heading for the Artic Circle and Prudoe Bay. Top speed was about 50 mph. but he said he was usually going 35 mph or less. A lot less up some of the mountains. Had some difficulty at times because of faster traffic being held up in no passing zones and getting some people pretty irrate at him. He said he usually pulled over often to let the pass.
Had some pretty good tales of his trip. To slow for me though, plus the time factor.
Good luck on your trip,:clap:

George

Not forgetting Louis!
 

Lois rode from one end of the Americas to the other of 225cc Yamaha and wrote a very good book about it, "Lois On The Loose" which is also her website, so google it and buy the book, cracking read.

Small bikes are fun. We have our big trip planned out on Suzuki TS185ERs.

Regards

Nigel in NZ

"Ride Tall, Ride Small"

the problem I'm concerned with is the poor quality materials, not the engine capacity. we race small capacity singles, and the market is flooded with the chinese clone engines. they have done a good job of faithfully copying the japanese designs, but the materials seem to be nothing like as good.
The engines have a habit of wearing badly and the gears quite regularly are stripped of teeth. the selectors also have issues.
Of course, any bike is better than no bike, and If carefully run in, the oil consumption will be greatly reduced. plating on fastners etc will be corroded through in no time.
But I personally think small cc is the way to go, unless you are planning on tearing down autobahns, and missing out on the scenery!:scooter:

Not a good idea
 

I would not take the Chinese bike for all the above reasons, particularly reliability and spare parts.

If you have the rescourses to buy a new chinese bike then you can afford a good condition small cc bike. It does not need to be new, just in good condition. Stories of people RTW ing and continent riding on small cc bikes and scooters are commonplace. My friend is riding from Bejing to Paris on a cycle at the moment so a 200cc bike is good enough.

Forget the new shiney chinese junk and buy a Honda, Yamaha or the like.

Just keep off the motorways when you get it.

Steve

Just found this
 

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/tstories/hutchinson

I just found this link on here.

This may give you inspiration.

Steve

Still saying thanks for your comments
 

Thanks folks for your concern
I must admit the quality problem i have heard before.......what would i have probably to replace before touring........and dam ive forgotten the name of the machine..but its 200cc and not even registered yet,mans got fed up assembling it!
I was told the tyres might need changing.
Alternatively which bike/model might you recommend?

When I was younger I traveled all over Britain on an old BSA C11

Chinese Bike
 

A Chinese bike - I would not go anywhere near it for all the reasons mentioned above.

Power, accerelation, braking and agility are your friends. On the country roads, scenic by-ways and highways, I always feel much safer on a bigger bike than smaller bike. A 650cc is a versatile size for many, many travelers.

IMHO, I do not see the allure in traveling on such a small bike. Putting along, loaded down, not being seen, ignored, squeezed, and blown pass, day after day just does not cut it (for me). I beleive one is safer on bigger bike.

If you decided on a small bike - by all means go have a great time but avoid the Chinese junk.

I agree about small capacity bikes being "squeezed", it can be a serious issue if you intend to travel on major routes (sometimes the only option in winter). motorways can be traumatic and dangerous.
but if time isn't the most important thing, stick to the minor roads, avoid the long boring arterial routes, you see so much more!
I have had much more positive responses on the c90 than on my zrx1100, people are amazed a 90 will cross europe, obviously they are capable of RTW in the right hands.
So long as you accept the limitations, you can have a damn good time on a sub 250cc bike, and laugh all the way to the bank if paying european fuel prices.
Travel light (good idea on any bike), use a well known machine (c90/cg125/ts185/cb250/ etc) start off with a low mileage good machine, not a high mileage minter, and change the oil every 1500 miles, or use a total loss oil system (worn rings ahem) and enjoy the view.
Small bikes seem to "bounce" better when dropped, simple to fix and are easier to pick up without having to unload the luggage. Tyres are cheaper (£16 quid each) and my c90 will p*ss all over a 1200gs off road..... :scooter:

Small bikes are better
 

www.horizonsunlimited.com/tstories/robbo

I had a little Honda XR BAja 250cc that I travelled from London to South Africa with along the West African route and having a smaller bike was fantastic! We met alot of other riders along the way that wished they had a smaller bike. (this depends on what type of roads you take, we mainly took dirt roads, style of travelling - long or short journey)

Advantages
Very econimcal on fuel compared to other bikes
easy on tyres
can pick up on your own if you do drop it
easier to ride on sand and gravel

Disadvantages
limited to your carrying abilities
slower on the highways and major roads so could be more dangerous
security of bike


We also met many others along the way with smaller cc bikes and scooter
* Three French people travelled on 125cc Piaggio Vespa from France to Burkina FAso. www.vespafreaka.com
* we even met a German guy on a Saxy 45cc but I don't have his website

I think whatever bike you go for, it's the adventure along the way that you'll enjoy
Amy

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/tstories/hutchinson

A good little read:thumbup1:
What i noticed was the amount of punctures, 7 in all:helpsmilie:
I haven't had 7 punctures in over 30 years of biking, seriously:clap:
This has got to be due to riding in the gutter, where all the debris collects, you don't see road sweepers sweeping the middle of the road:cool4:
But to ride further out towards the middle of your lane on a small cc bike would be potentially dangerous.:scooter:
I think you need to be able to keep up with the flow of traffic, even if you stick to minor roads:mchappy:
Just my observations:thumbup1:


Trophymick

Small cc bikes can certainly be easily picked up, sip instead of guzzle fuel, have (generally) cheap spares, but if you plan to cover large distances at any sort of of speed, your mind will aways be on whether you are pushing it too hard, esp when it starts to wheeze up slopes and into headwinds.

The handling and braking (with luggage) at speed will not be anywhere that of a bigger machine, and it depends on how much distance you are planning to ride on broken tracks, as compared to roads. Having heavy vehicles whoosh past with a speed differential of 50 kph is not fun, if you do not have what it takes to travel with the flow.

Arterial routes are boring no doubt, but they are sometimes the best means to spend an extra day or two at interesting destinations.

Two views
 

I have two views on this, depending on which day of the week it is.

1. Yes, true and so a bike around the 600-700cc mark is the optimum for travelling.

2. Nope, there are no interesting destinations anyway and it is the journey that matters.
(Isn't that why some riders go long distances almost entirely off-road?)

travelling light
 

I actually have a an old x reg honda 90 in the front garden.......its only done 3500 miles since new.although looking tatty. I would lay a bet it would start if i put in a new battery and cleaned the fuel lines.Its even got its original tyres on!
i did once travel from London to Dover on it..but my rear was so sore by the end of the journey
i think it wont do more than 55mph and as its only a 6 volt battery i would be worried about lousy lighting!.......mind you it always was relaible before it got neglected in the front garden.
your comments are really great .thank you all!

I can remember reading in MCN that Chinese bikes were rated as being the highest theft risk by British insurance companies. The theory that MCN put forward was that people buy them cheap, find that they are unreliable within 6 months but not covered under warranty so set fire to them and claim them as being stolen. I'd rather take my chances with the Honda you've got in your front garden.

Alternatively, try the Autotrader website for a Yamaha Diversion or similar. A half decent used one will be less than a Chinese 250.

Reliability
 

Im sure not long from now the Chineese will resolve these issues but for the moment alot of these bikes are not built to the same standards of the Japanese Bikes. So you are probably better off going for something more reliable. I have toured Europe on a Yamaha TTR 250 and it was a great bike. Ok I could not match the speed of bigger bikes but I just stayed away from the major roads and got to see alot more of the country side and small towns that the new routes have bypassed. A lot of UK based companies have gone bust because of the poor quality of the machines they offer.

Whatever you decide enjoy the ride.:mchappy:

changing my mind
 

i think i am in the process of changing my mind as to which bike...the 90 isa rear ens night mare .more than 20 mile and your shifting a lot in the saddle.so i would have to buy one of the single broader saddles i think if i was to use it
I have started to cast about for other bikes and so thanks for the suggestions.
with my weight the 90 would probabaly only chug along at about 40-45 anyway!

Do Not
 

I'm all for distance touring on small bikes. I'm to 21,000 miles this year on my XT350, and I live where it snows half the year (MN/WI). However, I cannot recommend the trip you have in mind.

I lived in Ecuador last year with several friends. We all bought Chinese 200's to commute to work and ride on the weekends. My buddy had his SWING ARM BOLT FAIL, literally while he was just riding down the road. Not off a jump, not from anything abusive, just as he was puttering along. Good thing he was slowing down when it happened. The head just popped off leaving the wheel assembly to kick over about twenty degrees and lock up the brake and bind against the subframe.

Anyway, if six weeks with an open, gangrenous wound in South America sounds fun, go for it. And maybe you like battery boxes regularly breaking and falling off, piston slap at 5,000km, non-functional blinkers, throttle cables, and master cylinders, rims that bend when you look at them funny, plastic that shatters when you breathe on it... I could go on.

These things are total garbage.

Most seem in favour of a small cc bike for touring and I'm all for it (I want to get a 400cc 1 cylinder bike for South America), just not in Europe. If you want to travel in Western/Southern/Northern Europe, a road bike with at least two cylinders is a much better option in my opinion. You are not likely to encounter much gravel, sand and mud, you'll probably spend 99% of the time on good roads. I think you'd miss the comfort and power of a bigger bike.
I own a 200cc and a 600cc 4 cylinder bike and I use the small one only in town, I don't enjoy riding it in the countryside. I always take the bigger one, it's so much more fun, especially with a pillion or luggage. You can pick up a 500 or 600cc bike here for small money. Suzuki Bandits for instance are cheap, comfortable, reliable, reasonably powerful and the naked version looks great. The Suzuki SV650 is fun, there are lots of good and cheap options.

I would happily ride any bike for which i could easily obtain spares. I think people are mixing up cc's with power. and for touring the power you want is torque, not hp.
true little bikes are light, and lightness is a very good thing. But having a low centre of gravity Ie around or below the wheel axles is good also. It also helps if you can easily hold the bike up when stopping on an adverse camber, for this you need a low seat height. Lastly mpg equals range. I would say your bike ought to be able to run (touring) for at least 3 hours continuously with no more than 20 litres of fuel. Why carry heavy weight of fuel high up?

I had a guest this week for three days. He was English and traveling from Nepal-India-Pakistan-Iran-Turkey to Greece-Italy-Germany-Belgium-France and England. He has a small 135cc Yamaha and small lauage which he get the bike from Nepal. He was quite happy with and easy to ride/maintaince/fix.

So, any bike would make the dream real. Just go for it!!

I may not be an expert, but does the engine capacity not determine torque? Apart from the engine design, as a basic principle? So if you want lots of torque for touring, you should look for a large engine capacity, I can't see a mix up there.

Sort of but no, not really.
A high capacity revvy four cylinder bike will have a good torque figure but it will be towards the higher end of its rev range and will have very little at low revs so not particularly usable grunty torque.
A big capacity single cylinder meanwhile should have lots more usable low revs torque.

Not so, but it isn't really simple. Stroke and valve timing greatly affect the amount of torque, but do not forget flywheel size (often related to stroke) Changing the conrod length also makes quite a difference. Is why later 1979 on (or therabouts) Triumphs had more torque due to shorter conrods. Sadly it also reduced its ability to rev, so the earlier say 1970 650's and before bikes rev much higher. An Enfield 500cc single has more torque at 2,000 revs than a 1000cc BMW r100 (I think 1150 gs also ). A soft tuned bike such as an Enfield or old 650 Triumph thunderbird makes pottering about much easier than something that needs lots of revs because you can just ride with the clutch released. Not so with some 600cc four cylinder engines. Not as high an ultimate top speed, but much easier touring.

But you have to have All the features I mentioned for the best ride.

I seem to remember you were planning a trip to Austria but had limited time to complete it. If so, you will need to use the autobahns and unless you really want to be a liability to yourself, you need a bike that will comfortably maintain at least 70-80mph.

I spoke to a German woman and her friend at Cochem on the Mosel, on their way back from Eastern Europe. She had a Kawasaki ER5 which in my opinion would be ideal for this guy's needs. I've ridden one and although they're nothing special, they're cheap, reliable and more than fast enough for touring at a sedate pace.

:innocent: LMAO

Ask Ewan of WrongWayDown fame if he would like a smaller bike now that he has fallen off time and again, as always he has 5 guys helping him right the Beast as he couldn't lift it himself.

God I cried tears of joy at the sight of him falling towards the hard rocky earth with the bikes back sliding out from under him and that huge crashing noise with bits getting all bent out of shape, and then with the 80 meters of mud to traverse OMG I'm crying again.

My little F650GS Dakar is still big for me but I can pick her up as often as I need to, a GSA with my one good leg no way not without some serious leverage, take a bike that best fits the route you want to go travel not the free one that's on offer that you can't ride or lift, Common Sense I think.

I fully agree, very underrated bike

Hi All, thats why many choose the KLE500:thumbup1:..same engine, basic mechanics etc,
I'm happy with mine:funmeteryes:
TDMalcolm

And who will ever forget Charley Boorman shouting in panic, "Can someone help please", when he almost dropped his before they even crossed the start line on Long Way Round.

I sat on one at a dealer and I bottled out of lifting the thing up off it's sidestand due to the weight (I'm 5'7" and 11st) and didn't fancy picking up the bill for the damage. I have a lot of respect to anyone who can make these bikes work for them without the aid of a back-up crew and 3 support vehicles.

As for bike choice, it's all horses for courses really. Like the man said, use common sense and buy to suit the purpose. After a lot of research on the internet and in usual bike mags, I bought a '01 Kawasaki ZX6R about 6 months ago. My basic requirements are that my bike must be able to handle a relatively long ride without needing to be on 1st name terms with your chiropractor but still be able to keep pace with the much more focused sportsbikes that my mate's ride. I'm trying to convince three of them to come to the Nurburgring with me. Their choice of bikes are the stumbling blocks even though it's only half a day from Amsterdam. I'm planning a trip to the Dolomites for next year which is pretty much out of the question on a Ducati 916. You pay your money and take your choice.

thanks for the replies
 

well, for better or worse ive purchased an '83 superdream 250 cc to go touring.Its in good condition and i hope this will be sufficient to tour with, although aware its a heavy bike
if all else fails then its definitely back to the c9o.
i still want to go to Austria but can allow myself 2 weeks which should get me there,even if i take the none motorway roads...failing that there is a lot of France ive not seen lol
now i have to make decisions about a fairing.If i need one or not,and if so what sort and where from!,i do tend to a cockpit one at least...but i suppose one with an upright screen would suffice...although a full one is tempting to imagine.....till you drop the bike lol!
ps do you think the super dream will be ok? lol

superdream, nice......
 

My first 'proper' bike after I passed my test was a superdream.....
thrashed the hell out of it all over the UK to rallies, runs and generally learnt to ride properly on it. they hardly ever go wrong, they are gutless (but will do 65-70 all day) return reasonable mpg, parts are pennies from breakers or ebay, lots of stuff from other hondas fit, tyres never wear out ( not enuff power.....lol) same with chains..... if adjusted well.

add a rack, a set of throw over panniers, a top box and a waterproof stuff sack to stuff clothes in ( nice to lean back on too) and enjoy it. oh yes, add air horns, and a better headlamp bulb, apart from that.......... lets see a pic!

Enjoy!:scooter:

Martyn

superdream
 

wel to be honest its stil in the van wher ei placed it when bringing it home.
It due to be taken to mot tomorrow
so ill photo it then.but its a big ragged but sound.wel i wil know that tomorrow
I do have to fix a broken stand though.
When yo say change the bulb , what do you mean?
i thought air horns where illegal in Britain.or is that for the continent.for i surely intend to go there early next year!

ok, I will be a bit clearer...
 

Hi, sometimes, the bulbs in the Superdreams are the old NON Halogen ones, about as bright as a wet candle........ put in a H4 Halogen 55/60w ( or brighter if u want, its not like the MOT are gonna really check it) the new 'BLUE' bulbs are a 'whiter brighter' light ( Halfords or similar) takes 10 mins max to replace. :thumbup1:

Air horns are only illegal if they play a tune. :nono: like the dukes of hazzard ones..... air horns and bright lights are the way to go. dipped lights on ALL the time, even in the day, make sure the dozy car drivers see you, if they dont, blast em with the horn to wake em up!

PS I live in Spain and the ITV stations (equivalent to MOT) dont care wether its a bulb horn, a buzzer, bicycle bell or air horn as long as its an audible warning device.....
Have fun

Martyn

thanks for the advice
 

Thanks martin for the advice i wil follow it up
took bike to MOT and guess what .it failed .i handt noticed but buger had painted walls of tyres,they were cracked and so 2 tyres needed.and rear brakes past their best.plus never adjusted rear chain and it was fail in adjustment lol.other wise a couple of advisory things like oil weep from fork stanchions and one lever with broken end
Now ill. have to sort that out.Seems it wasn't the only thing tarted up........but one step at a time and it was cheapish!
Are services difficult on these models?

Interesting thread as i have just done something similar having purchased a CB250 (2000) for my touring duties. Been down sizing from a 1500 Kawasaki in stages and think i've hit the right size now. Been through the maxi scooter thing with a Piaggio X9 evo 500 but had trouble keeping it upright :oops2: just doesn't handle like a motorbike.
So the Cb is part ready for touring. Plan is;-
Rear rack + Givi top box.
Oxford Lifetime throwover panniers and tank bag.
Large roll top bag across pillion seat.
Engine bars and pegs for variable foot positions.
Lubeman chain oiler.
Bike seems happy at 70 on the motorway but as i'm on the A & B roads mainly 60 is fine. Tank range is over 250 miles and it sips fuel :D

http://i1052.photobucket.com/albums/...ps4445c66b.jpg

Getting there :thumbup1:

__________________________________________________ ______________________

And in reply to the OP we did a 1500 mile tour round the extreme north of Scotland on C90s

http://i1052.photobucket.com/albums/...ps404f9a06.jpg

That's a nice example of lightweight riding.
What fixing system have you got on the screen for your GPS, and does it work OK for you?

stevewatkin, Nice looking bike!
I made lately this same kind of move to down size a "bit".
Now I have Yamaha YBR 125 in garage and I'm planing to do some trips with it around the Europe, with no hurry.
How far and how long, it depends, could I sell my BMW K 1100 LT away before summer. My travel money are in it!

My biker buddies think, that I had lost my mind, when I told them what I have done... They said: "Maybe you should travel just by yourself, we won't wait you!" Hah!

Here's the picture of my small mule:
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...93-ybr-web.gif

A 125 is fine for travelling - as long as you plan your route to suit !

I am heading from the south of the UK to Nordkapp next summer on a 125cc scooter ........................

Thank you for that link, I watched it and what an adventure whit this small bike!
This guy made it with really low budget, have to say.

pebble35, have you planed already your schedule, when you drive up north?

No firm dates yet - plan is to be up at Nordkapp around 25 June, so probably leaving the UK about 10 June and returning a month or so later.

So you are planning a quite long trip with 125cc scooter, nice.
I haven't decide yet, do I drive in Norway on next year.. Norway is so beautiful country, where you want to go over and over again.
I make attention in North-Norway, that those trucks drive fast even on uphills, so be aver of those and let them pass! Hard to keep distance with a small engine..

Its been so long since i first posted on here!
Life as usual got in the way and the missus as well,,,so i never did get to Europe on the smaller bike.
The 250 dream was too sluggish for the size of the engine and eventually i ended up with a Burgman 400 scooter,,,which was fabulous ,Enjoyed a good time around the Scottish Islands till coming over the rise in Arran the wheels slipped on loose gravel on the road and i kaputted on the road.
Despite the massive bruising on shoulders and hips( good job i had my own layers of cushioning) the bike kept going.........
Lovely cottage hospital in Arran!
Headed for home and 350 miles later the bike decided it had enough,stopped on the motorway having travelled for 20 miles through rain which can only be described as someone tipping a bath out over you!
So end of story but while i cant get to the big bike i have now got an old Yamaha Townmate, 80,,that should get me out and about.Who knows where i might go.....and neatly brings me back to the start of the thread! LOL
Thank you for all the advice and for carrying on the thread.i have enjoyed reading your experiences,bier

Looks like you have been through a similar experience to me !! Had the Kawasaki 1500, too big and unwieldy (sold), then a Piaggio X9 Evo 500 maxi scoot (now for sale at a bargain price), then a 2000 CB250 (which i love). During all this time i have kept the C90 and always will :thumbup1:
Want to do some longer stuff in 2014 and would also like to go back up to Scotland and to do North Wales again.
Might be worth you popping over to the C90 Club Forum 'cos there are quite a few Townmate owners there.

i m debating a kle too , for much the same reasons