|
Buy a transalp they sad, it is unbreakable they said :P
Hello guys,
unluckily my Transalp broke down. My first thought is that the battery died. I will check that this evening, I'm at work now. :thumbdown: Ah btw, it's an Honda Transalp 600 from 1998. I am a full beginner to mechanics and electronics so I might have questions that are super clear to you, sorry in advance. I already posted the story in the Facebook Transalp group so it might sound familiar if you guys are in there aswell. I post the full story as detailed as possible and what I will try this evening. Any thoughts and tips are very welcome. Sorry for english errors, I try to be as detailed as possible. So 3 weeks ago I installed a cable to the battery. It is for my navigation System, sadly it didn't fit directly ON the battery because those metal connection rings at the end of the cable didn't fit. So as a conclusion me and my dad decided to plug it directly on a cable that was already plugged on the battery via such a thing. We both had no idea what it was for, it is definitely after market tho. It looks like a power supply but it's neither USB or the usual car plug for a cigarette lighter. It looks more like a cable i know from my computer. It is similar to this... I will add photos later today. I never left the Navigation System on the bike tho, when I left it. So far so good, the Transalp still started instantly and I rode around 1000km in the upcoming week. Then i didn't ride for 1 week, until yesterday. I tried to start the bike and it needed a second try (usually it's starting instantly), okay it's an old lady so no worries. I then drove about 10km and decided to get gas. I paid and wanted to drive on...the bike was not starting any more. I tried several times...panicking and full of shame. It didn't start. So I decided to ran it in the first and then in the second gear....I couldn't get it running. All I got was a buzzing Sound from the battery. Not a single sound from the engine. So the battery was out of power...BUT HOW? I just drove 10km... I then pushed it to a closeby Mercedes seller. Luckily there was still one mechanic, he bridged the battery and the Transalp instantly started. So I got going and after 2km I had to stop at a red traffic light (it was the third already)...after about 1 min the engine just went off. Like Puff, Over and Out. While i was waiting I checked paranoid the RPM and when it turned off it was on about 1400RPM with the Choke pulled in. I don't have to say that it didnt start again... So I called a friend who got a trailer for motorcycles. We brought it home and now I have to find the error. What I will do tonight is to unplug that damn navigation cable and get rid of that electrical plug aswell. Then I will put out the battery and reload it. After that I will check if the voltage is at 12,5 Volt, like someone told me to. If that's the case the battery might be okay, if not, the battery is dead. After that, even if the battery is dead, I will put it back in the motorcycle and start it (should workout if I just loaded it) and check the voltage at around 5000rpm. If the voltage is below 14,5 Volt then the light machina (right translation?) might be the Problem. If it is way over 14,5 Volt then the charge controller might be broken and destroy the battery. What's left then is WHAT is causing the battery to die and why the **** did the engine just stop running at that traffic light -_- |
How old is the battery?
|
I have no clue, just bought the Transalp 3 weeks ago.
From the appearance I would say it's quiet old tho. There's no sticker that says how old it is. Here is a video of the Sound, I recorded it yesterday. Not sure if you can open it tho. |
Quote:
Check to make sure the cables to and from your battery are tight (at both ends of each cable). Make sure your battery is fully charged. Sent from my SM-T230NU using Tapatalk |
Dead batteries on used bikes is a very common problem. No worries. Don't blame your Honda on this. I'm sure it is only a worn out battery. Most likely your charging system is OK.
But do the tests you mention above ... Good! Some batteries have the INSTALL date written on top of battery. If your battery was left standing at the shop for a LONG time without being plugged into a trickle charger (maintainer), then not a surprise it has gone dead. I advise buying a NEW, HIGH QUALITY Yuasa battery. Yes, costs more than Chinese copy, but will last MUCH longer. A new, reliable battery is essential for travel. Let us know how the testing goes. Also, I would try to find out what the odd cable is. What sort of Plug does it have? Pic is best. The TransAlp forum riders should be able to offer many helpful hints about your new bike. I would read up on as much as you can. How do you like your new bike overall so far? :mchappy: |
Hey thanks for the answers. Sadly I still need a tester for the voltage. Just managed to organize a charger for now.
This plug under the seat is for exactly what I'm trying to do, but im missing the counter part :D Im 99% sure it is for charging the battery without getting it out of the bike. https://i.imgur.com/nndqRRL.jpg The battery is charging now. Tomorrow I will do the test, if I'm lucky i can burrow a test device otherwhise I will buy one. edit: Ah and Honda-50, the cables were fine. The mercedes repair place checked that before bridging the battery. |
Yes, looks like a plug for an external charger/maintainer. Must be a Euro Only plug, as I don't recognize it. No worries, I'm sure someone there can identify it.
Here we have something called a Battery Tender. It's "smart charger" that you can plug into at home or office and leave it plugged as long as you like. It will keep battery fully charged. So, that cable plug should be left OUTSIDE on side panel so you can plug in your charger without having to remove anything on bike. MAKE SURE ALL ELECTRICAL CONNECTIONS TO BATTERY ARE TIGHT. I'm sure you have some sort of automatic charger like this in Germany? |
Yeah but to be honest i got rid of it now. Well I still have it ofcourse but i unplugged it. I just don't want any more stuff on the battery. Only thing that is on it now beside the motorcycle stuff is the alarm system.
One more thing: How long does the battery take to be fully charged? Can I unplug it and put it back after work tomorrow? I somehow don't want it to charge over night in my appartment xD |
Also....when you get the bike started again do check the voltage at the battery with the engine running, that way you'll know if the alternator output is correct. You can get a multitester from Louis for eight euros , and it will tell you if the battery is being charged . Set it to the 20v DC scale and it should show a value between about 13 to maybe 14.2 volts according to the engine revolutions. More than this usually means that your voltage regulator has failed, I remember that this is a weak point of your bike and many people prefer to relocate the regulator to a place where it gets better ventilation.
However as you were already told, a good quality new battery should solve the problem. Enjoy your new bike. .M Sent from my P6000 Pro using Tapatalk |
bike has almost 20 years and you don't know its history...
man, you need to strip it naked and check everything to be able to trust it on the road. |
Quote:
Optimate TM Connector Accessory Leads Traded under the brand "Optimate" (from memory, manufactured in the good ol' USA iirc). There is nothing wrong with leaving it attached to your battery - the open end, as seen in your picture, means that it is not drawing any current. Indeed, they are very convenient for charging the battery while leaving the battery in it's fitted position on the bike. Over the years, different models of "Optimates" have used different cable end connectors for their various editions including the quite recently marketed water-resistant type shown in your pic. You might like the fault finding chart to be seen within the web link below, Fault Finding Guide - Motorcycle Electrical Fault Finding Chart - ElectroSport From, ElectroSport - Motorcycle, Dirt Bike and ATV - OEM Quality Stators, Regulator/rectifiers and CDIs Their advice is universal to lots of bikes. |
Electro Sport published common faults, by models
|
Quote:
You did not mention this! Alarms are famous for killing batteries. I would NOT worry about your Optimate charger cable ... but I WOULD worry about an Alarm. Some constantly draw current off your battery and can kill battery over time. For this reason ... you need a trickle charger like Optimate or Battery Tender or other brand trickle Smart Charger. QUESTION: What sort of charger is your battery plugged into NOW? Do not use a charger for a Car ... make sure you are not charging OVER 2 amps ... and only use 2 amp charge for about 2 or 3 hours MAX if battery is dead to start with. Many Car chargers put out TOO MUCH current for small Motorcycle battery. Most Smart Chargers typically use a .5 amps or less. Good luck! |
It is a charger for cars and motorcycles and it is set to 2A Motorcycle mode with 12V.
So should I get rid of the alarm? |
Hi skyy223
I've have that cable on a few of my bikes - as others have said its just there to trickle charge your bike. I am pretty sure all that has happened is that your alarm is drawing power from the battery. Not an issue when the bike is on a trickle charger as this gets topped up. Now you have the bike its not on trickle charge so the battery is running down, hence your issue. If the battery is dead (which is probably is) change it and you'll be fine for a bit, but if the alarm stays you need to get a trickle charger (not too expensive) to keep your battery from running flat when the bike is left standing. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
The place where I have to put my bike is outside, no electrical plug nearby. It's safe from rain but beside that I have to use a cover sadly.
This means that I have to get rid of the Alarm. But that's fine, I don't really see how this Alarm thing helps anyway xD If someone want to steal the bike he has to come with a trailer anyways and I always lock the handlebar. I never used the Alarm so far. In another Forum the people where sure tho that my navigation cable was the issue BECAUSE from that navi i bought it got a fairly weird cable with a 12V to 5V transformer. https://www.comkor.de/media/image/th...pg_720x600.jpg And this transformer is draining the battery even if there is no navigation system at the end of the cable. |
Seems a bit unlikely (or bad design) - suspect the alarm has a bigger draw.
But if that's the case can you just pull the fuse on the nav mount and only put it in when you need to use it (or add a switch) Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
For now I get rid of all the cables. Today after work I will also get rid of the alarm.
I guess next season I will bring the bike to a repair place and they should get the electric done probably. edit: This one is the Alarm System: https://www.buggycity.eu/product_inf...d--roller.html It's in german sadly. It says that it got a proetction for manupilation due to a emergency battery. It uses 4mA in standby OR when it's turned on. Edit: Also found the Manual...it says that the Alarm System is draining the battery empty after 2 weeks if the motorcycle doesnt get moved. So as a conclusion...i am 99% sure that the navi cable AND the Alarm System managed to drain the battery within 1 week empty. It still was enough to start it but I couldnt start it again after the stop at the gas Station. The Problem is, if the battery (it MIGHT be a type AGM one) is completely empty it can't get charged by the lightmachine therefore...the engine stopped working as soon as the laste Piece of voltage was used (after the Mercedes guy bridged it). That would explain all of the Troubles. After work i will put the battery back in...get RID of the Alarm. JUST the motorcycle electronical stuff and nothing else (okay i Keep the grips but just because I have no idea where they are plugged to :D). If it works fine then and I don't get any Trouble in the upcoming weeks (I will not ride for 1 Week atleast and check if the battery lost any power) I might put back the navi cable or the Alarm. So i can eliminate the Trouble causing parts. and btw, i stopped putting all the capitals down haha, german stupid Keyboards and Computer Keep automatically put capitals on most words. Im just tired of manually changing it back xD Sorry |
Update:
I put the battery back in, it was fully loaded and after 2 hours still 12V. So i guess the battery is fine?! The engine started immediately, like expected. the voltage kept at 12v...BUT when I went up with the RPM the Volt remains the same. Still 12V... but it should go up to 14... I can say that the battery is fine right? What now? |
Quote:
This sounds like a classic Honda issue. The start or rings in the alternator are burnt out. A full battery will show only 12v whatever the revs because it is not charging the battery. It will slowly drain and eventually again will stop. Stator rings are not so expensive and easily replaced. Honda recalled lots of bikes for upgrades a few years back. Hope this helps. Ben Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk |
Mh is that a case of warranty?! I have no clue how to check/change those.
By the way the detailed Volt testings...i got a proper tester now. The first value is the first testing. After testing all 4 I tested it again, thats the second value. Completelly off: 12,4 Volt - 12,38 Volt. ignition on: 12,05 Volt - 12,00 Volt. running engine: 12,14 Volt - 12,12 Volt. 5000RPM: 12,30 Volt - 12,28 Volt. |
Quote:
Before spending any money I'd certainly check the alternator output. You can do it yourself if you've now got a test meter but google or youtube may have to be your teacher. If you find it is the regulator and you need to replace it spend a bit of time checking and cleaning up every single electrical connection between the alternator and the battery. Electricity needs to go where it's supposed to and it doesn't take much corrosion / rust to stop it. |
Yes I got a tester now, sadly I have no idea what you are talking about haha :D
I can post my results here. I tested it directly at the battery...the numbers are weird, I can't explain it...but what do I know?! Next to these results: Quote:
Instantly after the 50km ride: Completely Off: 12,08 Volt Ignition On: 11,7 Volt. Engine Running: 11,75 Volt. 5000rpm: 11,90 Volt. So my understanding of electrical energy is: IF the battery is charging, it should go up by WAY more then just 0,15volt but if it is NOT charging, the voltage should be WAY under 12,08 Volt after 50km of riding. So what the hell?! Ah and also the rectifier is getting really warm...google said that means its broken, right? RIGHT? https://i.imgur.com/Ja09qqL.jpg Whatever, tommorow i give it to the repair place. DIY Test1: failed. :thumbdown: |
Good luck I hope you get back on the road soon
Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk |
Those numbers are about right for a bike that's just running on battery electricity.
When you charge a 12v battery up (like you did) it'll read a bit over 12 volts on the meter - about 12.6 volts, so roughly what you had (you said 12.38). If you then take electricity out of it (to run the bike) it'll stay around 11.5 to 12 volts for some time until it's drained. Then it'll drop quite a way down. The systems that run the bike - the ignition mainly - stop working when the battery voltage drops below a certain level. That's when the bike stops. Replacement electricity is produced by part of the engine as you ride and that's used to top the battery up. Unfortunately it produces it in a form that the battery can't use so it needs to go through the rectifier (the box with fins on it in your picture) to be converted. Also, there's often too much of it so the second half of the finned box controls how much gets to the battery. It should be just enough to keep it fully charged but if either of those parts of the finned box goes wrong nothing gets to the battery. That looks like the situation you're in. Also unfortunately you can't examine the inside of the finned box as all the electronics are set into a kind of resin for (don't laugh too loud here) reliability. If, as you say, the box is getting warm ( the fins are there to keep it from getting too warm) it suggests at least some electricity is getting in from the engine but your meter readings suggest none is getting out. If it was, the reading at the battery should be at least 13.5v or possibly a bit higher. That's because you can't charge a 12 volt battery with a 12 volt "level" of electricity. It needs to be a bit higher to "push it in". None of this is going to much of a problem if the bike is under some kind of warranty. Just let someone else fix it. I'd check the battery numbers with the meter when it comes back though. You can't be too careful with these things. |
Quote:
Thereby, I get direct readings of the battery voltage/condition constantly while riding - unless I choose to switch it off (note that it is switched and also is fused on the live side of the connecting wires). Dual USB Motorcycle Phone Charger Blue Voltmeter with On/Off Switch 5V 3.1A Typically, it shows about 12.5 volts, +/- a decimal point, while "static" (engine not running) and up to nearly 15 volts when giving the throttle "some welly" (the latter a technical term for over and above, say, 6000 engine revs per minute). While increasing the engine revs it is also sensitive enough to read and display the increasing voltage level as the stator rotates faster (thereby generating more alternating current). All this constant feedback of battery voltage readings assures me that the charging system is working OK, the regulator/rectifier ditto and the battery is in pretty good condition (see the earlier electrosport link for the reasoning as to why this is reassuring). It used to be the case that older machines, cars bikes whatever, were fitted with a voltmeter as standard equipment and folk understood the purpose of such a fitting and how to interpret the readout - not so much nowadays. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
I've got a very simple 3 LED version tucked away behind the screen on my CCM. Red = battery going flat, green = all ok, yellow = overcharging. Blue for overcharging would have been better but it was only £2-3 on eBay so I can't really complain. I can see the LEDs easier than numbers at night or when my eyes are watering with wind / rain etc. It's been working fine for about 10yrs now. |
Thanks Backofbeyond for the very detailed explanation! :)
|
Quick update: The Charging Controller is broken.
So it's the problem we already suspected, sad that they have to order a new one so it will take a bit longer but that's okay :) |
Good! Nice simple fix!
By the way ... in English that part is called a "Regulator/Rectifier". Hope that's is the end of problems! bier |
Thanks :)
|
Regulator/Rectifier is a known weakspot of XL600V Transalps and XRV750 Africa Twins. Glad you sorted it out, these bikes are phenomenal.
|
Sadly i got kinda a missunderstanding with the repair place and meanwhile I keep asking me one question...
The problem is...the boss of the garage called me on wednesday and told me that he put a used regulator in the transalp and it's working fine now. Just so I can ride on, but he also told me that they ordered a new one and I have to come back as soon as it arrives so they can change it with the used one. He wanted to do a testride anyway and call me again. Yesterday evening he called me, but i missed the call. So today I called again and only got the seller on line, he said that the Tranny is fine and i can pick it up. I asked him if theres's a new regulator getting and he said "nono its fine now"... im 90% sure that he just didn't know that the boss told me that I'll get a new one, sadly this guy is kinda annoying and refused me to pass me on to the boss. Tomorrow I will call again just to be sure because I don't want to drive there to pick up the bike with the used one...its too far and some1 has to bring me. I wanted to wait till the new one arrived. But the question: How do I know if the regulator breaks again?! Is it just driving until puff: same problem?! Or do i need to get such a plug some1 mentioned earlier in this thread? with a voltage thingy. Because then i might order this one https://www.amazon.de/WINOMO-Motorra...r+Usb+motorrad |
If the "used" Reg/Rect is not too expensive, I would leave it in place ... and take the "NEW" part on board with you as a "spare" for when you travel. Not to large, easy to pack somewhere.
Or ... put in the "new" reg/rect and forget about it. You are lucky it was not a failed Stator ... very expensive part. I'm sure you have read about others who relocate the Reg/Rect. to a place where it gets more air flow and stays cooler. Something to think about ??? |
I called again today and the seller said that there won't be a new regulator.
So the Boss told me something different...he refused giving me the boss. I will drive there today and pick up the bike and try to talk to him again, I hope I am not too annoying and they don't hate me already xD So it seems like I'm only getting the used one. If this one breaks again I probably will just pay some money and get a MOSfet one, any tips here? I've heard they are way better then the original ones, true? And also, relocating the regulator seems like a good idea but where?! Under the seat is the only option i can imagine but there is no airflow at all is it? |
Hey one more think :)
It feels like the revs in neutral are lower now (after it came back from the repair place) and I am not sure if I handle the Choke correctly. I ask this in this thread, i hope thats fine :) Before I brought it to the repair place the revs where at around 1200RPM with choke fully open. I closed it when the engine was cold and closed it after maybe 2-3 km and it was fine. But the weather was also much warmer then now (does it have something to do with temperature?). Now, when i start it I also close it ofc but when I open it again the revs go down to maybe 900-1000 rpm. It sounds like the engine is stopping every now and then, makes me nervous at traffic lights :D I mean i just tested it, the engine is NOT dieing but is 900 rpm in neutral too low? I thought 1200 is about right. |
I would go over to the HONDA forum here on HUBB. Start a Trans Alp thread, or find on older Trans Alp thread already there. LOTS of hubbers have done long trips on the Trans Alp ... LOTS of good knowledge here ... you just have to ASK!
Also, there must be a Trans Alp Forum in Germany? Ya Ya?:thumbup1: I don't know the bike well myself, but I do know basic carburetor function. Is it just ONE Carb or two on your bike? I'm guessing TWO Carbs, one for each cylinder, ya? One is easy. But both your Carbs most likely will have TWO adjustments. One is the Idle adjustment. I'm sure you have found that one by now? One Screw may adjust BOTH carbs at once. The other will be the Fuel/Mixture screw. (each Carb has it's own) The 3rd element that can affect idle is your choke (enricher) Make sure it's working correctly and not STICKING ON. This happens on older bikes. Use WD40 or similar to free up choke cable and operation. It is normal for idle to SLOW DOWN once you shut OFF Choke. Choke should only be used for starting engine. Once engine is running for less than 5 minutes ... turn OFF choke. Idle will drop down slower. This is normal. Fuel Screws need to be adjusted correctly as well. But first, set idle with Idle Adjustment screw: Ride bike until fully warm (HOT!). Put in neutral and note Idle RPM number. Make sure Choke is OFF. (closed) I would set the idle between 1200 to 1400 rpm. (this is your choice! I prefer a slightly higher idle!) If two carbs, then carbs must be "in sync" then adjusted individually. Read up on your Carb(s), learn about the Fuel/air screw, sometimes incorrectly called Air Screw. It actually controls Fuel flow at very low RPM, like Closed throttle up to 1/4 throttle . You generally adjust the Fuel screw to obtain the highest idle (also do when engine fully HOT) Turn adjuster screw OUT until highest/smoothest idle is found. Now, screw adjuster IN on half turn. (more lean) You're done. For best fuel economy always run this setting as LEAN as possible and still maintain a smooth idle. Once that is done ... re-check Idle adjustment and put it back to 1400 RPM. bier |
Quote:
Yes, the engine will idle lower when it's cold and as the air temperature drops it will take longer to warm the engine up so your 2-3km will stretch out to a longer distance before the engine idles at its normal speed. I'd want to travel for some distance - maybe 20-30kms in colder temperatures - before deciding whether the idle speed was too low or not. There will be a screw under the tank somewhere for adjusting it if its too low but if you do it before the engine is fully warm (hence the 20-30kms) it'll be too high when the engine does warm up. And then there's the issue of balancing the carbs so each is pulling its weight at idle .... |
Quote:
Motorcycle Repair Course (there is a section in there named "fuel"). Of my three bikes, two use carbs and one is FI. |
I just used the transalp repair book to check how to fix the issue and adjusted the screw for the revs a bit. Its going smooth on 1200rpm now.
|
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 22:49. |