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gmouns 25 Sep 2017 20:10

CRF250L will not start
 
I'm in quite dire need of some information on how to get my CRF250L going, it's quite long winded, but if you bear with me hopefully I can explain the situation fully.

I rode the bike around 30 miles one day and left it for around an hour, when I came back to it, it absolutely refused to start and hasn't started since.
Now, I have an engine warning light on that stays on known as PGM-FI MIL (programmed fuel injection malfunction indicator light). Light stays on, does not flash and the engine will not start.

There is no power to the spark plug, ignition coil and the fuel pump is not priming and so not allowing the engine to start. I've had the fuel pump running from a different power supply and the plug and ignition coil working on another bike. All of the fuses are good, I even changed the one for the PGM-FI just to make sure. All the relays are good and battery condition good.

I've now replaced the ECM (CDI/ECU) and that wasn't the culprit.

So, after some further research using the Honda 'shop manual and with help from a friend I did some testing on the Bank Angle Sensor. I did a continuity test on the sensor itself and got nothing. I then followed the manual doing tests which lead me to 'replace the bank angle sensor with a known good one'. So, I thought before making the 700 mile drive for parts (like I had to for the CDI). I would try to bypass the BAS.
My friend found out for me that I would require a resistor as the ECM needs to read 500-800 ohms of resistance basically as a safety feature so that you cannot bypass it. Even with a resistor reading 670 Ohms and a new ECM/CDI/ECU the bike still will not start. Still no priming of the fuel pump and the MIL stays lit.

Also, before anyone mentions kill switch/side stand switch thats not the problem either.

I have a bank angle sensor on order as it's the only thing I can thing of that may be faulty even though i've tried to bypass it.. just wondering if anyone on here has any suggestions in the meantime.

Looking forward to hearing your responses!

mollydog 25 Sep 2017 20:24

Sounds like you've done a very comprehensive diagnostic on your bike. For all the time and money spent, seems like it may an issue for the Honda dealer.

They can plug into the ECU and hopefully get a fault code to lead to the problem.

I assume the battery is STRONG! ?? Not just showing 12 Volts, but truly strong.

I know you checked all the safety cut out switches and kill switch ... but my advice is ... CHECK THEM AGAIN! (Clutch, side stand, kill)

So many times turns out to be a corroded contact point, loose connection or something silly like that.

Before spending the big money on a new ECU ... I would have let the Honda boys have a go. I assume your bike is OFF warranty? ... but in some cases Honda may do a "Good Will" repair for Free. Not often, but has happened if it's something odd.

I have no brilliant ideas beyond the rambling above. All the best!
bier

gmouns 25 Sep 2017 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by mollydog (Post 571179)
Sounds like you've done a very comprehensive diagnostic on your bike. For all the time and money spent, seems like it may an issue for the Honda dealer.

They can plug into the ECU and hopefully get a fault code to lead to the problem.

I assume the battery is STRONG! ?? Not just showing 12 Volts, but truly strong.

I know you checked all the safety cut out switches and kill switch ... but my advice is ... CHECK THEM AGAIN! (Clutch, side stand, kill)

So many times turns out to be a corroded contact point, loose connection or something silly like that.

Before spending the big money on a new ECU ... I would have let the Honda boys have a go. I assume your bike is OFF warranty? ... but in some cases Honda may do a "Good Will" repair for Free. Not often, but has happened if it's something odd.

I have no brilliant ideas beyond the rambling above. All the best!
bier

The bike is at Honda! It's the 'Honda boys' who told me it was the ECU...

Trouble is I'm in Mexico and the 250L was never sold here. The Honda dealer my bike is at doesn't even have diagnostic equipment and they've been on the phone to Mexico City main dealer and they've said they have the equipment but only for Mexico model bikes... I.E we can plug it in but it won't read the codes for your bike anyway.

The thing with the kill switch and side stand switch is that the warning lights on the dash go out and the starter motor doesn't turn over when they're engaged. So, I know it isn't them.

PatOnTrip 25 Sep 2017 23:37

Have you tried bypassing the starter solenoid. This would remove any safety circuit. You can use a wrench and short the two nuts of the solenoid. You will see sparks doing that. At first just put the wrench briefly to see if the starter is turning.

mollydog 26 Sep 2017 01:33

Oh my! I had NO IDEA you were in Mexico! Is yours a USA bike, Euro or UK version?

Curious if you've probed the CRF250L communities? Maybe some knowledge about this there?

Have you tried to do a simple "Bump Start" on your bike? I also don't know the year, mileage and use of your bike. Has it got wet a lot? Parked out at night? Since you're in Mexico in the rainy season, I' guessing ...yes?

If you've got time on your hands you may pull things apart ... carefully ... and
check as many of the BIG multi-Pin plugs as you can reach. On rare occasions these may separate or have water ingress. Most are very high quality O ring sealed Japanese connectors ... but in rare cases the 18 year old girl who assembled your bike in Thailand may not have seated the plug in all the way.

Also look for any "pulled" chafed wires, especially round the steering head area.

It's probably some bugger $2 component holding up the show. Hope someone at Honda Mexico City can help. Maybe someone there could contact Honda Japan for help?

Man, what a bummer! doh Hope you find a way through this sooner rather than later. bier

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmouns (Post 571184)
The bike is at Honda! It's the 'Honda boys' who told me it was the ECU...

Trouble is I'm in Mexico and the 250L was never sold here. The Honda dealer my bike is at doesn't even have diagnostic equipment and they've been on the phone to Mexico City main dealer and they've said they have the equipment but only for Mexico model bikes... I.E we can plug it in but it won't read the codes for your bike anyway.

The thing with the kill switch and side stand switch is that the warning lights on the dash go out and the starter motor doesn't turn over when they're engaged. So, I know it isn't them.


Petrus 26 Sep 2017 11:46

Did the Honda guy's read it out? There is a read connector, when you short the two contacts the MIL will blink on the display. There is a list in the maintenance manual which explains the blinking pattern.


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tremens 26 Sep 2017 20:08

no priming, no cranking, no power at spark plug and stator....I would take voltmeter then and walk it from source (the battery) to all destinations points. I suppose it will be some simple reason for that like lack of electrical connection somewhere. ECU idea from the dealer was really stupid IMO.

gmouns 26 Sep 2017 22:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by tremens (Post 571233)
no priming, no cranking, no power at spark plug and stator....I would take voltmeter then and walk it from source (the battery) to all destinations points. I suppose it will be some simple reason for that like lack of electrical connection somewhere. ECU idea from the dealer was really stupid IMO.

Not so much actually. Turns out that the USA ECU isn't compatible with my Euro/UK bike... Had it running now and done tests to rule out a faulty potential diode in the ignition switch that can immobilise the bike if it doesn't send a current to one of the pins on the ECU.

So, for now it seems problem solved and I have to just wait for the part to show up from England!

gmouns 26 Sep 2017 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by mollydog (Post 571199)
Oh my! I had NO IDEA you were in Mexico! Is yours a USA bike, Euro or UK version?

Curious if you've probed the CRF250L communities? Maybe some knowledge about this there?

Have you tried to do a simple "Bump Start" on your bike? I also don't know the year, mileage and use of your bike. Has it got wet a lot? Parked out at night? Since you're in Mexico in the rainy season, I' guessing ...yes?

If you've got time on your hands you may pull things apart ... carefully ... and
check as many of the BIG multi-Pin plugs as you can reach. On rare occasions these may separate or have water ingress. Most are very high quality O ring sealed Japanese connectors ... but in rare cases the 18 year old girl who assembled your bike in Thailand may not have seated the plug in all the way.

Also look for any "pulled" chafed wires, especially round the steering head area.

It's probably some bugger $2 component holding up the show. Hope someone at Honda Mexico City can help. Maybe someone there could contact Honda Japan for help?

Man, what a bummer! doh Hope you find a way through this sooner rather than later. bier

Yep, in the end I tried EVERYTHING and I mean everything...

Turns out the ECU seems to of been the culprit, it's just that the USA one isn't compatible with my UK bike... Dammit. Expensive mistake to make, but now I know.

And, yes, the bike has been wet A LOT!

Thanks for the suggestions.

tremens 26 Sep 2017 22:44

ECU failure on honda bike? how rare is that? or maybe not rare anymore :)
crf250l is relatively new bike, so it's all different now.
Good you got it running anyway!

gmouns 26 Sep 2017 22:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by tremens (Post 571242)
ECU failure on honda bike? how rare is that? or maybe not rare anymore :)
crf250l is relatively new bike, so it's all different now.
Good you got it running anyway!

Yep, I was also really, really doubting them. But we've had it running with the ECU from a different bike, so just gotta be patient now! Thanks for the reply!

As someone above mentioned it's rainy season here in Mexico, I also put the bike through some water crossings the day before, not mega deep, but deep enough in some cases and then jet washed clean. Although I always take care for this exact reason when jet washing, it seems that something from that day before just squeezed in and shorted something somewhere!


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