Sorry to divert from the grammar lesson, but . . . . .

I realise the reliability of a yet-to-appear-bike is nonsensical, but I'm reading everything about this bike with interest, not least because it's a Honda. I had a Hornet as my first bike after my test, and it was brilliant (I had it for 2 years). My current bike is great (European brand) too, but in the 4 years of owning it I do seem to have spent quite a bit of cash on the day to day running side of this. It's the longest I've owned any bike (I only passed in 2008), so I have nothing with which to compare. Is owning a Honda long term as reliable as certain people make out? I appreciate that individual bikes will vary, but speaking generally? I'm wondering whether Japanese bikes really are that reliable!

Agreed..... Ive just left my job as a BMW specialist technician. Two years I did... They have their pros and cons. More cons than pros from my perspective though.

Compared to Honda's in reliability and thoughtful engineering though, they are light years behind.

I have two Honda's now. I wouldn't call them boring. However they're from the 90's. Honda make some fun bikes today too. IMO.

Cleland, thanks - interesting reading. How do you find the general costs / labour costs with Hondas? BMW are quite high!

The "True Adventure" ( Africa Twin!) should be at the NEC soon, so hopefully there will be more details there.

haha. You think £500 for a service is too much ??? You have the wrong bike doh

Feel sorry for the Technician. They do all the work. Take all the shit. Get blamed for everything. Have to buy their own tools and have to pay for any mistakes. And when there is a happy customer. They give the wine and the doughnuts to the bimbo on the front counter who paint their nails all day.

Dealer charges £90 per hour. The technician gets £10 (if you're lucky)..

Oil and filter change on your F800GS at a dealer costs £120 and takes 15 minutes. The oil and filter costs the dealer £20.

It's the same for any main dealer though. Honda, Triumph etc. But the difference is their bikes don't break down as much and the parts are half the price.

F**K I am glad I left... Mechanics at main dealers are treated like dogs.

I once went to a Honda dealer to service my first ever bike and change the chain and sprockets (in 1993, An Africa Twin). Even being a complete novice I could work out that the Honda-Techno-Muppet had put the front sprocket on the wrong way round... Not a word of apology. No discount.

Never been to a dealer since.

These days, when I can't do the work myself or lack the specific tools, I go to a man (A trained Triumph mechanic) who works out of a unit on a local industrial estate. He charges me £20 to £25 an hour and usually I supply the parts.

He prefers older bikes with less electronic gubbins with no need for a computer to reset the "Service light". So do I: Amongst others, I own a '95 Af Twin and 2 Transalps (from 87 and 88). These rarely go anywhere near his workshop because they never break down. :mchappy:

When I do go to see him however, he doesn't serve me a skinny latte nor licks my arse. :(

I'm starting to feel like you might be right! When I have said thanks, I've always always directed it to the guys behind the scenes, whether that be purely verbal or with a small prezzie. I fully realise they're the people who keep my bike going, and they're the people I want to thank. I like the very personable sales staff, but my true thanks are reserved for the people who do the work! :D

That's pretty much how I'm going to operate now... Freelance. Now I have my own workshop and equipment.

So when you think you're taking your bike to highly trained professionals, you're taking a massive gamble. I'd say 75% of people in franchise workshops have NO specific training at all. And many don't have a fecking clue AT ALL. Man, I could tell some horror stories...

It's a poor paid trade.. Partly because it's seasonal. And partly because 20-30 years ago, bikes were SIMPLE and it wasn't that highly skilled.... But that just isn't the case now.

And when you pay peanuts , you get monkeys. But in places where jobs are scarce (like where I live), even if you have the training and experience you have limited options but to take what's going.

So in general, you won't get highly trained technicians working for big dealers because the dealers won't pay the wages they deserve. If you're lucky you'll have one 'long timer' in the workshop who's stuck with a mortgage and kids and has no where else to go. They oversea the monkeys and try keep things going. The dealers depend on this. It's not unusual for dealers to have 3-4 'technicians' come and go in 12 months.

So when you drop your brand new GS into a dealer you're likely to be getting an out of work tyre fitter scratching his head over a manual. But the dealers don't care because they're only paying him £8 an hour so if he takes twice as long it's no big deal. And if he f**ks it up, they'll take it out of his wages.

So where are all the good guys... These guys are all independent. They don't have to put up with the crap any more. They have enough work though word of mouth.

That's the reality. But if you want your service light turned off and a stamp in your book that's what you get. And that's exactly what the industry wants. They charge you triple cost for your oil. They charge you £80 for £20 brake pads. It's scam...

Anyway... I could rant on about this for hours. But I'm boring myself let alone everyone else doh

And totally off topic.. Apologies..

Right then Ted, £10/hr it is. I'll bring the bike round shortly :rofl:

Good luck with going independent :thumbup1:

I won't get out of bed for that now ;)

New Africa Twin 2015
 

Hello. Can anyone share with me and the forum Honda's usual protocol or timeline to announce details about when and where the new models will be available? Has anyone read or heard if the new AT will be available in the USA? I have not read anything about it coming to the USA. However, someone mentioned it to me yesterday. The only official information I've read was from November's announcement in Italy.

One report from IndefinitelyWild reflects the following:
"The first round of prototype bikes are built and the second iteration are being put together now," our insider tells us. "By the looks of it, it won't be released as a 2015 model."

If this is true, can we expect to see a 2016 AT in the showrooms during the end of 2015? How early do the dealers usually learn of Honda's model distribution?

Thanks in advance!

Suzuki's new DL1000 V strom would be your answer but it is not selling particularly well in the UK judging by the number of unsold 2014 models that are advertised here.
They are going for very good prices though compared with the 1200cc bikes.

As for Honda, you will appreciate that they have stopped producing V twin engined bikes in favour of parallel twin engines or V fours.
Aprilia have done something similar over the years.

To boot, Honda continue to draw "inspiration" for some of their engines from the car division of Honda - some think that is why Honda have lost their way in motorcycle design (by letting the car people take over).

It's just economics
 

You have so many cheap, earlier-generation motorcycles that remain on sale in the USA that there is little reason for manufacturers to sell brand new designs there, at least during the first stages of production, when there are higher profit margins to be made elsewhere in the world such as in Europe.

As for dealers, they always say that they know nothing!
Just to add, I tend to think that this is true, broadly anyway; why should a manufacturer distract individual dealerships/distributors from selling the current range of products?
Better to let them get on with their selling business (which is distinctly separate from that of making the bikes).
In some dealerships in the UK, the sales staff are employed on what I call "zero-sales" contracts i.e. a commission only basis, so no sales = no pay in the monthly packet. That concentrates the mind on selling what they have on the shop floor and to hell with what may be coming next year when those sales staff may no longer work there in any case.

The thing that the dealers do tend to know about is which models are being dropped by the manufacturers and the sequencing that the manufacturing stops, such as the earlier AT, the Transalp, the Varadero, the Deauville - all those which were using the mighty V twin engine of some cubic capacity (did I mention the Firestorm? - a UK name for it; forgotten what it was called in the USA market, but it wasn't Firestorm).

Some USA Dealers may get hints of release dates if they attend the big Dealer Expo shows held every year. But keep in mind, many times new models are released FIRST in Europe ... then, if they do well ... may or may NOT be imported to USA. This true with many many bikes in recent years.

The fact the bike is reported to be in prototype stage is a good sign ... if that info is reliable. Chances are the basic format for the bike is now set ... and only details will be changed or fine tuned.

If I had to guess ... I'd say the soonest USA dealers will see this Honda would be Summer/Fall of 2016 ... if all goes well. Should be out in EU before that ... so you will have time to read ride reports before that.

While this is generally true, keep in mind just HOW HOT the ADV market is in USA. Look at BMW and KTM sales in USA .. they break records every year. Honda are late to this party ... but may still snag a fair % of the blooming ADV market if they handle things well.


It was called VTR1000 "Superhawk" in USA. I owned one! Terrible bike .. but great motor! But the real GEM of a motor
Honda never did anything with was the RC51. Up spec version, race motor. IMHO, THE MOTOR Honda should have used in
an ADV Africa Twin. Best V-Twin Honda has ever made.

Same here with DL1000. Not selling all that well and we see big discounts on them already ... it's only been out four months or so. :( Too bad, a great bike many will never discover.

Honda still make PLENTY of V-Twins ... check out their Cruiser line. Maybe the UK don't get some of these long running models the US gets? I rarely saw Asian cruisers when I was in UK. But in US, Cruisers have been the Japanese OEM's "bread and butter" for decades. Huge profits. Slow sales now save a few models. bier