Yeah, but none of that stuff seems to actually stop a bike that ain't a BMW... good luck fixing even a CDI problem in the bush.... or a crank position sensor etc and bikes without points have both of them....my point is that plenty of people have done plenty of travel on bikes that are not really more complex than this without trouble; electronic suspension might go wrong but it don't stop you; most ecu's have a fail safe mode; fuel pumps can be replaced with any old unit from any old car these days; modern 'adventure bikes' that aren't German are generally pretty solid....

It could have even more electronics ... like most modern high performance bikes it probably will have:
1. multiple power modes 2. various levels of traction control 3. Multiple programing options for Electronic suspension 4. ABS probably will have various levels of intervention including the new bank sensing ABS (to save you from yourself!) :helpsmilie:

Most of this new tech seems to be working well on street bikes (don't know about BMW?) but take it through 1000 miles of rough piste fully loaded or cross a few deep creeks, get it all wet ... well, who knows? :innocent:

The man made Adventure category is illusory, malleable, it's definitions are now stretched way beyond anything we could have imagined 25 years ago.

Think of these bikes as stylized, up market ADV Luxury sports tourers with a Dakar Rally patina about them. The ad campaigns will do the rest to convince the public they are "True" adventure bikes. It's what they do.

Trends DO repeat themselves. These current bikes are not like the true Rally replicas ALL the OEM's produced in late 70's - 1980's ... no, these are not so obvious.

But those Rally Replicas sold well back then but the trend was short lived. Who remembers the original Yamaha Tenere' 750, Honda Africa Twin, Suzuki DR BIG, Cagiva Elephant, BMW R80GS. All were street bikes, many sold in full race livery, None were really that good off road ... without modification.

Oem's have moved on now, they've left off the race team logos and sponsors, they're now using the Adventure travel dream as a connection point for buyers ... it's the Walter Mitty Special. :D

Spot on. My preferred bike for overland travel is the XT660Z; but it still has FI, an ECU, TPS, CPS, etc etc but I wouldn't hesitate to take it RTW tomorrow..... and it probably isn't in concept, that much more complex than the new AT; maybe ride-by-wire throttle and traction control modes and ABS, but basically the same.

Ted, a code reader for the XT can be had for 60 quid from Yamaha (most other bikes, a laptop and a bit of software will do the job in the field, or in your case as GS911 @ $300, no?)

Some pretty harsh judgment by some for a bike for which there are only two darkened pictures released! I am waiting for official specs before bashing it for not being a true adventure bike.
Unless it ends up being a real lemon, I bet it will sell. After all, most of the customers don't need a real adventure bike. They just want to look like they have one. Unfortunately, the posers substantially outnumber the real adventurers.

As predicted by someone over on the ABR forum - 200bhp and the price of a small house ... and the weight of a small house as well :rofl:

Supposedly from patent images.
More food for conjecture.
Honda’s Africa Twin Revealed In Full! | Australian Motorcycle News

http://www.amcn.com.au/media/1707874...atwin5-658.jpg

http://www.amcn.com.au/media/1707889...atwin3-658.jpg

It just needs some cast wheels to go with those tyres and it may be a worthy successor to the Yam TDM 900 of about 10 years ago.


Incidentally, of course it will come to the European market fitted with ABS.

Well I give Kudos to Honda ... at least they've not gone with Shaft Drive! :rofl:

I was shocked Yamaha went that direction. Adds at least 10 kgs. to the weight, robs power and adds another thing that "may" fail.

The bike shown above ... to me ... looks fairly neat and tidy. I rather doubt the production version will be that clean and unencumbered. But full benefit of the doubt to Honda until will see an actual production version. bier

There again, it could be a parts-bin product with the fairing taken from the current version of the CBF1000 and the hunch-backed fuel tank of a VFR1200 married with the bored out 750 NC engine.
The exhaust from ??

At least it does not have the ugly, cheap, pressed steel box section swinging arm that Honda have fitted to many of their products in the past.

Once it is released BMW will come back, pretty quickly, with a 1000cc chain driven competitor methinks - a revised F800GS?

The XT660Z is a great bike. It has the reliability of an old fashioned engine which has been modernised by simple and reliable electronics.

It's fuel injection system is relatively simple with very old, proven, and refined technologies. I would also not hesitate to take it right into the middle of nowhere with the knowledge that I'd have to be bloody unlucky to have an electronic fault.

As you say, it's miles behind these new 'Starship Enterprise' Adventure bikes. These bikes are FULL of barely tested new technologies, gimmicks and components that are only there to entice people who like gadgets. They're like bloody Iphones...

The companies KNOW that 99.9% of these bikes will never be far from a main dealer for when updates and recalls are brought out. As long as they look good, ride well and are advertised properly, people will be queuing up to buy them.

I'm not saying they're bad bikes. I will no doubt enjoy riding them and have fun on them but I would NEVER buy one. They're the complete opposite to what I want in a bike. But that's just me and my fresh air opinion.


RE: Portable fault code readers. They're not much use. A fault code is worth nothing without the training and understanding to know what it means. They generally just give you an idea which 'System' has a fault and not which component.

Bikes bring up faults all the time for no reason too. When I plug a brand new R1200GS into the official BMW Dealer 'Moss' diagnostic 'linked to Germany in real time' computer, it will bring up LOADS of fault and codes. Only through training and experience do you know which of these can be ignored and those which are genuine problems.

In the dealer I worked, you'd get customers coming is saying:

"My mate plugged his fault code reader into my bike just to check and it came out with all these faults.. I want them all fixed under warranty"

When there is nothing wrong with the bike at all.. Bloody nightmare. :innocent:

Having just viewed the (patent?)images of Hondas latest Adventure stud, i can't help thinking that new bikes are becoming like new cars. That is to say, if you take the badge off, can you really tell what factory it came from? Being a honda, it will probably do exactly what it says on the label. Unfortunately it will probably do it in a totally antiseptic way. I want my motorcycling to be more involving than that. I want to look at it and get all 'unnecessary ', and when i ride it, i want it to feel like it has a personality.Even if that means i have to show it more 'tlc' than logic dictates that i should. I have always had the most pleasure on machines that most other people thought were "unsuitable". But i picked them because i liked the cut of their jib! If i want to be pragmatic about travelling distances with a load of kit then i'll take a van! If i want an 'experience' then i'll take a bike that i can have a relationship with and we'll have an experience together. Sorry if this sounds like the romanticised ramblings of a sad old git, but perhaps i am one.

Which model KTM do you own Matty? :innocent:

I don't know your age but at nearly 67 I've out grown any romantic attachment to my travel bike. Lost interest in dealing with constant issues on the road, unplanned stops in undesirable places. I know for many their bike is the center of their trip. Not for me.

No interest being STUCK for days/weeks dealing with backwater mechanics in shops that look like a bomb had gone off. Been there, done that. Cured any imagined romantic ideas permanently! :eek3:
In my 20's it was all good. No longer. But I realize some thrive on such situations. They call it "real adventure". I call it misery.

I assumed that as we age we want a bit more security, reliability ... even at the expense of a more "adventurous" machine? Looks like you're going the other way! And good on ya! I just can't do that!

I like "character" in bikes too ...now prefer just a bit more predictability, I especially like a machine that responds well to proper maintenance and care. Not all do ... and need CONSTANT fiddling. Not for me. :nono:

I grew up riding/racing/wrenching on Triumph's, BSA's, Matchless, Bultaco's and Husqvarna's, later Hondas. Since then, have had Moto Guzzi's, BMW's, KTM's and many Japanese bikes too. The 60's were "the bad Old days" for me and bikes. Too much pushing, not enough riding.

Plenty enough "character" for me. Of all of them ... I only miss my '84 Le Mans lll Guzzi. A gem.

By early 80's I saw the wisdom of Japanese bikes as long distance travel conveyances. Starting on Honda 50's in the 1960's in Baja, to NOW, riding my Suzuki DR650 all over the country.

Most of the world is connected by some sort of road .. and for that, the new
Africa Twin may be just fine. Too heavy? Too much useless tech? Yep, all true, but our little ADV Scene is in flux ... and we can't go back! doh

Do we know it is going to have too much "useless tech" yet?

Hi Mollydog, first of all, i'm not trying to tell you or anybody else what you should or shouldn't ride and i'm certainly not saying that the only way to true travelling nirvana is to ride a 1957 bsa bantam armed only with a rusty pair of pliers and faith in the love of our fellow man. What i am saying is that for me, the choice of machine i take is not about selecting the most expedient and drama free way to reach the destination and return home. This is partly because i feel the trip is not about the how far away the destination is or how remote or exotic it is but is all about the journey and having an experience. To me the bike is a fundamental part of that experience.
The benefits of FI, ABS, traction control and other electronic aids are not lost on me, i know what they do, i know how they work and what to do if they stop working, but for me they don't add to my riding experience, in fact they detract from it, they stop me from feeling connected to my bike in the way that i want and so stop me from having the experience that i want. What ever people choose to ride, i sincerely hope it gives them what they need, it just doesn't need to be the latest greatest thing from the factory to do it.
Getting back to the Honda, i just wish they could design in some individuality
Character doesn't have to be a euphemism for unreliable POS.bier

Agreed, that's why I ride a 9 year old DR650 with 60,000 miles on the clock! No F.I., No Radiator, No water or fuel pump, no ABS, Traction control ... all that and NO breakdowns! (... I do have heated grips!) :smartass:

True. Many reliable bikes have character, just not in the traditional "Old Brit Bike" sense. For me the relationship (and bike's character) build as miles tic by, maintenance done and bike is learned, inside/out.

Regards the new A.T. Yes, these first renderings do look rather generic. I'm sure the finished bike will be different. Paint jobs can do a lot!

IMO, it will be left to owners to "individualize" their bikes, much the way so many have done with previous generations of classic travel bikes like R80/ R100GS's, XT's, KLR's, Vstroms, 1st gen. A.T.'s and more.

How far one can go will depend a lot on what Honda offer in the "extras" catalog. If they offer the right stuff it could mean owners have a lot of room for creative mods and can make the bike what they want. But it will take years for the aftermarket to help with that ... and that is key.

With bikes like the KLR and DR650 ...(both around decades with almost NO changes) aftermarket support is huge. Both those bikes are bought as purely "blank canvas" bikes ... and lack a LOT of things.

But with such strong aftermarket support it's easy to "customize" your KLR or DR to make it what ever you want ... and make it much better than the standard product.

Owners are the real developers of a machine. They figure out what the bike needs, what products work or don't and do the long, hard testing over years and miles. This is were the old A.T. (and many others) have an advantage: All the hard R&D has been done for you! All the questions asked and answered. All the solutions available.

That is the case with most of the bikes I listed above. It could take years for a new A.T. to get to that point ... But if it's GOOD and Honda keep it in production ... it will get there .. eventually. bier