hi tedmagnum: roger. will sent in a new piston ring set.

today gary checked my clutch disc. the clutch disc thickness is within 3.72 - 3.88mm, which is good. the clutch spring free length is about 40.7mm. which is good also. what would be the contributing factor to my clutch problem?

goh

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e3...s/100_0798.jpg


Look at this picture.. Can you see the "notches" in the centre hub ?? If yours looks like this then that can make the plates jam up and caus your problem... You can file them down smooth for a temporary repair.

Also, check the plates are nice and flat. NO warpage.

just a washer? maybe
 

hi Ted and fellow friends: Gary helped me to take out the clutch system and nothing wrong with it. when we were about to put it back, we noticed that there is a missing washer.

picture is on:

023.JPG (image)


if u look at the picture it is washer number 6.

during installation, we put on the clutch outer, then suppose there should be the washer #6, then clutch center following by the clutch plates and disc.


the only washer we had was with the lock nut. we are sure we did not lose any parts including the 'missing' washer inside the clutch basket.

see :

024.JPG (image)

is that washer important or is there an error in my Shop Manuall?

does anyone know the specification of that washer so that if we needed it we could replace it with some similar stuff?

maybe this is causing my clutch problem...

strange.

..check clutch plates for glazed surface...if they are glazed or the opponent metalic ones are blue, this indicates slippage (are you sure you have never used car "energy saving" oil in the bike?).....
You can try to increase the bite of the clutch by cleaning the discs with a brush in hot water with soap for cleaning dishes. After that rinse them in water to remove all the soap ...and then sand them softly with 800 sand paper... (just to deglaze, not to remove material)...You should place the sand paper in a flat surface like a glass and then sand the discs in soft circular movements..... do not worry because if they are shot , there is no more harm you can do to them....

hi porompp:

new findings! yeh, gary did that for me. we did it on the clutch plates. but what is questionable now is the missing washer...

what do u think?

hihihi

good to know about that. mine is a 1998 RD07 model. hmm, if the head gasket for shadow750 could fit my bike?

need ur advice!

goh

The washer you talk about is a "Thrust" washer... It is so the centre hub sits correctly on the clutch bearing and correctly spaces out your clutch components..

Although I can not guarantee that it is causing your clutch problems, it certainly won't help with it being missing and without and you will no doubt damage your clutch.

From memory of most clutches, it is a fairly thick washer so without it, you clutch has incorrect spacing... I could make sure you replace it immediately..

...sorry but that washer either is a mistake in some years manuals or no longer is made....i tried to find it when i fully rebuilt my Africa Twin Engine but Honda do not sell it anymore, or is not included in their parts catalog....if you check Honda Service Manual, not Haynes...you will notice it some years, not all years...and i wonder why since the engine is the same since 1989......

hi ted!

my clutch do not have the notches u refered with the big picture.

i contacted chan, in singapore, he also told me that there is not such washer in the ATs anymore. this is what he email me regarding the missing washer.

I believed you saw in the Honda Service manual that there is an extra washer for the clutch housing. It struck me long time ago while I was replacing my AT’s clutch plates too. Initially I thought it may have a missing washer too, but it’s almost impossible as the engine had never been touched before, factory installation won’t have such mistake. Then I noticed the Honda parts catalogue do not have this washer. I checked with Honda parts dealer & confirmed that there is no such washer. Since then, we have replaced countless clutches for the AT, & there’s never this washer around too.

I deduced that it’s just an error in the Honda service manual. It’s most likely they reproduced the photos & instructions from the service manual of earlier XL600V Transalp. The Transalp does have this extra washer & it’s listed in the Parts catalogue too. I can justify this as I have both the AT & Transalp 600, have replaced their clutch & found it tally with the parts catalogue. So rest assured there’s nothing missing from your clutch!


how i wish that it is this washer that caused the problem. but if the problem comes gradually, then it wouldnt be the washer. it must be something that has worn off. this is what he emailed me regarding the clutch:

Hi Goh,

Just received your sms that the problem is clutch slip & difficulty in gear changes. I believe it’s your gear shift drum that is worn, maybe the gear shift arm & the forks as well. When these wears off, it can’t shift gears cleanly (shift arm don’t sit firmly in the slots of the shift drum), hence it slipped. So it might be the gear shift mechanism that slipped rather than the clutch.


is that possible?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_wcWu8PEW9u...k/s320/008.JPG Hope Too's kidney.



http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_wcWu8PEW9u...k/s320/007.JPG
The liver.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_wcWu8PEW9u...8/s320/006.JPG
the clothings.


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_wcWu8PEW9u...c/s320/005.JPG
Hope Too in sick bay.


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_wcWu8PEW9u...E/s320/004.JPG
Making a heart pacer.



http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_wcWu8PEW9u...k/s320/003.JPG
He is now camera shy.


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_wcWu8PEW9u...w/s320/002.JPG In the surgery room.


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_wcWu8PEW9u...k/s320/001.JPG

By the look of the carbon build up on that piston.. You were definately burning a lot of oil..... lol

hi ted:
yeh... so what can i do for that piston? do i have to sand it away?

also what do u think contribute to the clutch issue?


i have placed order from singapore for the gasket sets, valve stem and seals set, piston ring sets and clutch plate+disc set.
gonna change them when they are here.

yer, clean it all down and sand away the carbon...

I don't know about the clutch... I can't diagnose it on a forum :(

...do not forget the circlips...you will have to use new ones.....

Hi Porompp: what is circlips?

Hi Ted: the front cylinder head is much cleaner than the rear. is this common? i had cleaned the carbon on the piston head, cylinder head. once i recived the mail from singapore, gary and i will bring the cylinders to a shop in austin and they will rebore the cylinder, fix and aline the valves stem, seals and guides. i hope the piston ring set comes with the piston ring clip.

this is what i ordered:


1) 22201-MJ1-761 Clutch friction disc = 7 pc
2) 22321-MV1-000 Clutch plate = 6 pc
3) 11394-MV1-850 Clutch cover gasket = 1 pc
4) 13012-MV1-305 Piston Ring set 0.25 = 2 set
5) 12251-MV1-004 Cylinder head gasket = 2 pc
6) 14711-MV1-000 Inlet valve = 4 pc
7) 14721-MR1-000 Exhaust valve = 2 pc
8) 12231-MF5-305 Inlet valve guide = 4 pc
9) 12241-MF5-315 Exhaust valve guide = 2 pc
10) 12208-413-003 Inlet valve seal = 4 pc
11) 12209-413-003 Exhaust valve seal = 2 pc
12) 11395-MV1-850 Magneto cover gasket = 1 pc

as for the clutch, i would follow Chan's advice:

Normally the friction plates wears off faster & it’s alrite just to replace these. However there is no measurement listed for wear limits of metal plates, & Honda recommends replacement of clutch disc as a set, so I would recommend so, since they don’t cost that much anyway.

Honda service manual do not have service limit specified for the clutch centre & pressure plate. They just remarked to” check for excessive wear”. If these needs replacement, I can look for it from other sources. Otherwise it got to be ordered & delivery time will depends on air freight (extra cost) or standard sea freight (too long).