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Looking for the optimum car for a trip to Asia
Hi there,
my girlfriend and are planning an overland trip to Asia starting from Germany. Our plan was to head through turkey to the stans and then north to Russia (or something along those lines). We are used to travelling but not with our own car and have little knowledge on cars. We've done some research but are a bit unsure of what car we really need. We kind of want to keep the cost down in a sense that we do not want to have unnecessary but expensive stuff fitted. Mainly we are wondering if Landcruisers and Defenders (maybe not so common in Asia?) are our best bets or if other cars should be considered as well. Also I am not really sure what to look for when buying a used one. Like, where do I check for rust, what do I need to ask the owner etc. I would appreciate some help here and since I likely forgot half the relevant information, please aks for it and I will try to post it asap. Thanks a lot in advance! fcms |
I did a trip through Russia, Mongolia, and the stans in 2014. My route is detailed on my blog, along with lots of info on the places visited. It might help with your planning - www.bermudarover.com
I had a land Rover Defender kitted out for the trip and it proved to be a great vehicle for the task. The Defender was particularly useful in Mongolia, where most of my off-road driving occurred, including water crossings that couldn't be avoided. For Mongolia, I'd say a 4-wheel drive is a necessity. But for most of the other countries, a decent car or SUV might have done just as well. One consideration though, is the amount of kit that you will take with you. If you will be camping in some locations, you'll need all of your camping gear as well as normal luggage. Some of the distances between towns is significant, so finding a hotel isn't always possible. That's when the camping gear becomes very useful. A vehicle like a Defender or a Land Cruiser would enable you to carry more gear than a standard car. |
Depending on what your time of travel , and where you intend to go , a decent sized van with good size tyres and good ground clearance might fit the bill . In a landcrusr or defender you are more or less forced to use a rtt or freestanding , due to load area size constraints , which can be a bit of a pita mostly dependent on the weather . I have used a defender with a rtt in certain parts in good weather for the most , thats what i base my advice on .
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Going to Asia? You need a Honda Jazz.
Any car can handle the roads so your thoughts should be focussed on economy and nimbleness. The Jazz is probably the most space efficient vehicle there is - fold the seats flat and you can easily sleep inside (like my son and his partner do in his). You'll also find parts for it just about anywhere - not that this will be necessary, they never break down. Take it from someone who has done this journey many times before, a big lumbering 4WD is a waste of money and totally unnecessary - setting off in it might make you feel macho, but once you hit the road you'll stick out like a sore thumb and be a magnet for thieves. |
Any car you like
Yups,
Any car you like. As long as it's in good shape. We used a lada break in 2007 (too long ago...). https://www.flickr.com/photos/nadjen...57603287199966 And that was standard except from removing the rear seats. I'd go with any lada in good shape again anytime. Most locals drive them, meaning that the roads tend to be just smooth enough to pass trough, mechanics understand them, and maintenance is cheap, and spares, if needed are readily available. Big advantage is that you don't stand out. By the time "they" realize you're a foreigner, you're past the checkpoint. Obviously, there are limitations too. Some of the out of the way places cannot be reached in a regular car (e.g. Mountain villages, or the darvaza gas crater), it will demand more driving skills and care when it gets rough, and you have less load carrying capacity (think backpacking when packing your stuff, and there will be loads of space left for comfort and treats. If you want some more ground clearance and storage, I'd think a Honda CRV or toyota RAV4 wouldn't be bad. I've seen them around there, so I guess spares won't be to hard to find. You can't do much wrong with a toyota hi-ace either. Land Rovers/cruisers/ nissan patrols... will carry whatever you want, as far as you want, and where you want, and they do look good on the pics (a factor I'd consider. They stay around long after your trip), but they also cost a bit (both in acquiring and maintaining). All are perfectly suited the way they come from the factory. A lot of Vans and 4x4s have been abused. And a car that has been abused will cause much more frustration than any other car in good shape. In the end it very much depends on where you want to spend your money on, and what makes you feel good. Most people leave very much over equipped. Enjoy! |
Diesel van with mattress in the back & camping stove, worked for me & is by far the cheapest way, i often just pulled down a side road & climbed in the back (save on camp ground fee`s/motel fee`s) for one or two nights.
Loads of travellers from Europe come over for a look around OZ & do this conversion. Build a Bed in the Back of your Van I bought an ex bread delivery van, bread weighs nothing & the van`s running gear/suspension had an easy life. My choice now would be a white long wheelbase VW Caddy van 1.9TDi with auto double clutch gearbox. http://www.themotorreport.com.au/con...6c-450x240.jpg Mezo. |
Hey,
thanks for the recommendations. That sounds interesting! I was wondering how much more "freedom" (i.e. to go somewhere) a 4x4 gives you. E.g. on mountain roads in the stans. I have been to some of the countries there but never with my own car and thought that some of the roads might be a bit difficult with a "normal" car. We thought of getting a RTT. I am nearly 2m tall so the car should be relatively long if I want to sleep inside (I can fold a bit but not too much ;) ) and I imagine it gets a bit sweaty in there, doesn't it? But yes, a RTT is expensive and probably you can stay in lots of hostels for the same price... We would definitely bring some kind of camping gear, but a small tent, sleeping bag etc. will do, we do not necessarily need chairs etc. We plan to leave Germany around maybe April next year and then we will see how long it takes, there is no time limit and no schedule yet. I will do some more research on the cars mentioned and see what I can find. Still if anyone else feels like he wants to add something I would appreciate it very much! |
I suggest you take a look around page 4 of this re-arranged sub-forum for info about the cheaper end of the market for "softroaders".
= posts from about 2012 or thereabouts. http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...vehicle-tech-4 There is also this thread which has some useful discussion of vans specifically (it also cross references to when the threads were re-organised). http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...nordkapp-72894 |
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I think Robbert has pretty much 'hit the nail on the head' with his post above.
If you want to stay on the paved roads, something like a Lada car would do the trick. The converted van option would also be great for the paved roads and would give extra storage and sleeping space. I think a key point, as raised by Robbert, is whether you are prepared to sacrifice going to some of the off-road locations that some of the less expensive vehicle options are less suited to reaching. If a low cost vehicle is one of the primary aims, and you don't mind missing some locations, the car or van option would be a good solution for you. What I can say is that, for me, some of the most memorable locations from my trip were those that required some off-road driving to reach. Those included Tsagaar-Nuur (White Lake) and Amarbayasgalant Khiid (monastery) in Mongolia; Song Kol (lake) in Kyrgyzstan and the Kaldama Pass between Kyrgyzstan and Uzbekistan. My Land Rover Defender came into its own in those locations and I'm so glad that I included them on my route. Only you can decide what your individual priorities are and then you can narrow down your vehicle choice accordingly. As you can see from the responses, there are several types of vehicle that you can use, each with its pros and cons. https://bermudarover.files.wordpress...6/img_7713.jpg |
Again, you'd be surprised what can be achieved off-road just using regular vehicles. When I crossed the Sahara 37 years back on my RD350 the preferred vehicle was a 2CV, VW van or Peugeot 404. In the Australian outback in the 60s and 70s everyone drove either Holdens or Falcons - including crossing the Simpson desert.
A couple of years back I bumped into 4 German backpackers pushing their bogged Toyota Camry in the painted desert ......... .... and in '75 I bought an old Austin/Morris J4 van for £25, put a mattress in the back and spent 3 months travelling around the UK and Europe free camping in lay-bys. As for driving in snowy mountain conditions, I lived through 3 Toronto winters driving a RWD BMW 735. You very quickly learn all about traction and every driver learns it otherwise they become a hermit for 5 months each year. In my opinion, the gravel roads in the mountains make driving easier, not harder, as the gravel provides additional grip. |
Yep - but it's not the gravel roads that are the challenge - it's the deep squishy mud that can be a problem :-) Such as these in Russia
https://bermudarover.files.wordpress...5/dscn4619.jpg .. https://bermudarover.files.wordpress...5/dscn4620.jpg But your point is well taken regarding the use of regular vehicles for overland travel. |
my cousin is driving round Europe in a 2wd Hymer camper and you wouldn't believe the places he gets that!!
I would go with something like a van or camper for a long term trip. 4wd options on most are available if you want the extra reassurance of that. How about something like a MItsubishi Delicia? mercedes also do 4wd versions of their vans. For example: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-T25-Cam...item463c900e57 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FRESH-IMPO...item3a82250bc8 |
Cheap and Cheerful!
1989 Suzuki Sidekick JX -- 2dr -- 4x4
87 suzuki samurai Best value around. Nothing tougher. Baja tested and survived. So fun to drive in deep sand or tough rocks. Made for it. Expendable. Got money to burn? OK, then. Land and Range Rovers start at around $40K usd here and go sharply north of 90K usd for the best ones. Most Jeeps are JUNK compared to Suzuki. In Asia, perhaps you can find some Suzuki's ?? My buddy who lives in Baja, bought a 10 year old Suzuki Sidekick 5 years ago for $2500. Replaced water pump and clutch, not a whisper of a problem since. LONG, unsupported Desert trips, no problems. |
Yes, the Samurai (or Sierra as it was called in Australia) is the only 4WD I have owned. I bought mine new in 1985 and sold it 3 years later for more than I paid for it! It was truly a go anywhere vehicle but I had the 1 litre, 4 speed version which meant it had a top speed of 102km/h (or 107 on a steep downhill) and that was absolutely flat out! :(
85km/h was a realistic touring speed, and at that speed fuel consumption was 10L/100km (good for a 4WD but very poor for a 1 litre hatchback). As such, it meant I was restricted to back roads in Australia if I did not to want to end up with long queues of vehicles behind me. Mine was also a soft top with the only glass being the windscreen, so security was not ideal. :cool4: |
Maybe one more thing on Land Rovers.
Used discoveries tend to be a cheaper than defenders, and used to have pretty much the same mechanics up until the TD5. Very capable, and comfortable. If looks don't matter, don't rule them out. With toyota's, you might want to avoid the LX series. Other than that, it doesn't have to be a 4.2l series 80. And... whatever you buy, make sure it's in good condition. A rundown 4WD is more misery than a decent 2WD. A rundown 2WD is even worse.... . If you go 2WD, rear wheal drive with a beam axle works really well on rough roads. Much better than front wheel drive with independent suspension. |
Can't agree with farqhuar's comment about a 4x4 being a magnet for thieves at all.
We did Germany to the Far East for 1.5 years returning last year and we didn't have any trouble with thieves at all. Far from it. In fact we found the Central Asian people to be the most friendly and warmly welcoming people we've come across. Often their first question is whether you are having a nice time in their country and they want to ensure you leave with happy memories. The only time our land cruiser was ever touched was by the cows scratching their backs on our spare wheel at the back! Robert's and Bermuda rover's comments I can relate too, but you can get to song kol without the 4x4. You can even do Mongolia without, but you really would miss a lot! The lada will be too small for you, but they are great. The delivery van is a great, potentially much cheaper option and we travelled with some sling our route: basic but functional. For size you might prefer a transporter though. The Mercedes are the local buses in the central Stans so getting spares and repairs is not difficult at all. Pics of fellow travellers on our blog: we had everything from cyclists, suzukis, 35 year old Mercedes and totally 'normal' white-box caravans. www.wanderwheels.wordpress.com Have fun on your trip! |
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Well I've said it before to thers but sit down and work out how you want to live on the road and where you want to go then decide on the vehicle
For example, do you want to sleep inside, on the roof our in a ground tent, or will you be in hotels/hostels every night. Inside = Van, Estate car or long wheel base 4x4, Cons - takes out of lot of space in smaller vehicles On the Roof - well you could drive anything Cons - will need an expensive tent and roof rack Ground Tent = any vehicle Cons - having to find a flat site to pitch/bad weather can be a pain setting up camp You get the idea, as has been said you could do the trip in virtually any vehicle and get there and back ok but some will mean comprimises on the route or the way you live (Driving a 4x4 won't subject you to more risk of theft or make you look like russian mafia unless you tint the windows and put big chrome rims on it :) ) |
Hi, i am thinking of doing the same, and i've been looking at the Mitsubishi Pajero/Montero 3.2DiD. Seem to be very reliable, nice consumption (around 10L/100klms with reports of saying it's possible to lower to 8 if very careful with the right foot). Another advantage is that the LWB has space and there's a few conversions to transform the back in a sleep space with space to pack a lot of stuff. They also sell cheaper than Toyotas and LR (at least were i live) secondhand .
Check these out: Where the Eyes Go: The Montero and its Mods Preparación Mitsubishi Montero 2.5 Sahel “Camper” | Siempre Ruedas y Motor Where the Eyes Go: The Montero and its Mods :thumbup1: |
I have just started using a Citroen C3.......
65+mpg on diesel. but not much ground clearance :( |
Overland in 68
In 1968 I drove a s/h Mercedes 190 (ex embassy ) from London to Herat in Afghanistan with the only mechanical problem being a broken half shaft as a result of being forced offroad by a mad Afghani truck driver in no mans land between Iran and Afghanistan. At that time there were many Asians returning to India, Pakistan & Bangladesh in Morris minors and oxfords. Most of the intrepid adventurers in Landrovers were seemingly the ones bogged done along the way waiting for parts. Unless you are planning to go offroad seriously a suitable car would be sufficient and a van as mentioned previously probably more suitable. Having spent another 10 years in the Gulf during the 70/80 90's Toyota appears a good choice as far as service/parts backup. Good luck whichever way you choose to travel.
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how about this little Lada.. seen in Tbilisi https://farm1.staticflickr.com/333/1...ba3b5925_o.jpg |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trGz2hD-2VA |
Depends on how much you want to spend and where exactly you want to go but for almost any journey a Defender/Land Cruiser is a little overkill and heavy on fuel consumption too.
As long as it has some ground clearance and I would always prefer four wheel drive over front or wheel drive and depending on the time of year you'll be on the road having decent working air conditioning can make the driving a lot more pleasant and keep you more relaxed. I'll probably get mocked for this but I'd consider one of these - Skoda Octavia Combi 1.9 TDI DPF Elegance 4x4 AHK 1.Hd. als Kombi in Hannover Decent 4x4 system, it's Haldex based but it's the later generation that works quite well especially on snow/gravel/light mud. They came with raised suspension and underbody protection from the factory too. Great 1.9TDi engine as found in every VW, very reliable just make sure the cambelt has been replaced. If you raise the boot floor slightly (storage?) and fold the seats down you get a perfectly flat space big enough for 2 people to sleep in. Should do nearly everything you want for 5,600 Euro and you wouldn't have to spend much to modify it. |
Ive got an old Mercedes estate W123 with a roof tent. Ive replaced the engine for the w124 diesel engine giving it better economy and it has the 5 speed gear box, up rated suspension giving it a slight lift, sump and steering guard, a twin tank fuel system with fuel heaters so can be run on veg oil or used in cold climates and much much more. Been my pride and joy for years and never missed a beat. Taken me all over Europe and parts of Morocco.
Its been absolutely great, fairly good on fuel, good on ruff tracks and light off road helped with the Mercedes suspension travel, loads of space inside and its fun to drive. I dont want to get rid of her but the missis is making me sell as ive just bought a new truck, so if your interested let me know. If not at least look at getting something similar as driving something with character adds to the adventure Tom |
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Don't take diesel
diesel is difficult to found is lot of country |
I read about some man driving to Myanmar, that on the road, in and after the Stans, many "good" roads are full of holes and bumps ; and that sometimes it takes hours before someone passes (who can help you if your car breaks down).
Personally I have never driven outside of Europe (but I'ld like to try). I'm not an adventurer that wants to do crazy things or go fast of ... (but love discovering new landscapes and cultures) and not handy, and not strong (yes a woman) so if I read your advice, basically it says : 1. if you stay on the main roads, you should be able to get wherever you want to go (does the Russian mud road qualify as a 'main road' or was this to reach a special place off road please ?) 2. you don't need a specially equiped car to drive to South East Asia - any car will get you there 3. driving a new car is not such a good idea : thieves will come ?? 4. SHIT. is that true, that diesel is hard to find ??? (I just got a new toyota, exactly to be SAFE to drive to Asia - no risk of breaking down, strong, enough space, less risk if a car hits our car ... bad idea ? and SHIT it is a diesel yes) I read the adventures of Roy & Michelle I believe it is - they went on a 3 year trip around the world and made a book of it ; they are driving a landrover with all kinds of stuff on it (rope to pull them out ; spare tire on top of the car in front of their window ; fortified metal side bars ; special lights and bumpers ; etc) - am I reading it well, that it is NOT necessary to have all this stuff ?? Because when I see all that, I'm thinking : silly girl, forget about driving to SEA ... your car is not equiped for that. your thoughts ? |
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Mine is the more you add the more likely something will fail, you've added weight so you then need to uprate suspension, a vicious circle. You won't necessarily know the quality of these "up graded" components. You get the picture. I've deliberately kept my vehicle standard and I'd trust it to go anywhere. Having said that if you do some research on your vehicle specific forum you may find the odd known weaknesses with a cure. You haven't mentioned which Toyota but what ever it is (other than a Prius :-) ) is a good starting point. If you search on here for Surfy you'll see that he uses what looks like a pretty standard Toyota. I don't get the lack of diesel. If there are trucks / tractors in a country there's diesel. Quality maybe an issue, especially in a newer diesel. You could get an additional filter / water separator fitted? |
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