Total Loss of Vehicle - Help Needed
 

We had a devastating day in the Western Sahara yesterday resulting in the total loss of a 4x4. Fortunately no one was hurt, now at police station waiting after a long night in the desert.

As far as I understand we need a police report confirming the car is scrap before the owner can leave.

Does anyone have any more detail on the process or what we need to do next?


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Glad no one was hurt. I don't know of process I am afraid but we're in n Zagora at the moment if we can help in any way.

Simon

Total Loss of Vehicle - Help Needed
 

Thanks for the offer Simon. Right now we need sleep and somewhere nice for a night so we can regroup and plan.


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No problem, we're in Zagora until tomorrow morning and then heading to Tata via MS8. Hope to be in Tata on Saturday.


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Let me know if you get all the way through to Tata without being turned back. It's a route I want to do but have been turned back every time I tried


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I didn't think it was that easy. I had understood the vehicle had to be removed from the country otherwise taxes would be charged—there is clearly some residual value in the vehicle for parts. I suppose one alternative is to gift the wrecked vehicle to the customs...

I can't find any recent definitive statement, this is from over 10 years ago...

"The following : (...) in the case of the temporary admission of vehicles, the only guarantee required is the undertaking by the person to re-export his vehicle within the authorized regulatory deadlines; This commitment being formalized in the temporary declaration. (...) In the event of a declaration of theft of the imported vehicle suspending duties and taxes, the person concerned becomes liable for the said duties and taxes which shall be paid before leaving the national territory ... Moreover, In the event of a serious accident (...) Wreck may be re-exported. It may also be released for consumption on payment of the import duties and taxes payable but on the wreck and not on the vehicle as it was imported ... It is still true that freely entered into customs By natural or legal persons, except in cases of force majeure due to natural causes."

We've had this through which appears to detail the process

http://www.service-public.ma/en/web/...Procedure=5206


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Have a good nights sleep.

Then I'd be having breakfast and then talking to;

the Police (as you have done - but go back and talk some more, they know more about the local conditions for recovery and scrap value).
the customs people.

Ask the Police if the vehicle is worth recovery for scrap, if so you might sell it for scrap (take photos and get a report from the Police about the accident) and then pay the customs people for the duty on the scrap value minus the cost of recovery. Best if the scrap people do the recovery and simply issue the payment invoice so that all the recovery costs and valuation are in one document. Before you do it .. but after making local enquiries with the local Police + wreckers ... talk to the customs people and see what they think is best.

Good Luck.

Did you happen to join ADAC before you left. They have a recovery service designed for just this situation and they cover morocco. Any other motoring organisation membership?

No not with this car. To be honest there's nothing left but scrap metal.

Typically dealing with anything here is very confusing. Police are saying that we don't need to go to customs to leave the country


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You definitely need to talk to customs who have offices at all airports and sea ports. When I left my motorbike in Morocco when I travelled home for an emergency I had to complete forms and have the bike tagged on the Douanes computer system. And the computer system is quite impressive, tracking all my comings and goings over many years!

15% of normal import duty could still be a sizeable amount.

I agree with Tim, even if the vehicle owner can leave the country no questions asked, they definitely need to at least try and clear it with Customs, unless they never plan to return to Morocco. The issue is import taxes.
My only total loses have been twice in Algeria (others) and once in Mali (mine).
None were viably recoverable but as always in Africa – even Morocco – stone-set regs tend to soften up once a few teas are sipped and cigs smoked. Or be prepared to tow the wreckage out of the country - to north or south.

Hi Mark,

Sorry to hear about your trouble - hope you're all OK now the dust has settled.

I guess your friend will be either flying back or exiting at Tanger Med with the group. Either way he'll need to have a good talk with customs/police where you are. Trying to explain the same at either Marrakech airport or Tanger Med port is likely to result in a huge amount of hassle and a hefty bill for duty.

You need a statement from the police indicating that the vehicle has been a total loss and scrapped where you are.

The police should have a local contact who will buy the wreck for an agreed sum. You'll need a letter from the police clearly stating that this has been done. It needs to include all the details of the car, the driver's details, DOB, passport and CIN numbers, a photocopy of the D16 and a photocopy of a receipt from the buyer.

The alternative is to export the vehicle but recovery to the port will be a killer. As a guide, recovery on a truck is about €1 per km.

Hope that helps,

Peter

You can call the ADAC in Agadir.I am sure they know what you have to do.

ADAC Agadir

24, Rue Nation Union, Angle Rue Mokhtar Souissi, Cité Suisse, 80000 Agadir.

(B.P. 720), 80000 Agadir

Tel.: (0528) 84 37 52, Fax: (0528) 82 51 54

Regards
Mike

A similar situation in Azerbaijan I got my bike to a customs controlled area where it was marked on their system as having left the country, I handed the key to the customs officer and left with everybody happy, I am sure you need to witness it's official departure on their system before leaving the country.

Thanks all for the information.

We finished with the police in Smara with a pack of paperwork to present to Customs in Laayoune. We have been assured that this is everything we need.

We tried to get the wreck sold etc but either they didn't understand or it wasn't a problem according to the police

Now in Laayoune to see Customs in the morning. Fingers crossed it's straight forward and what we've been told is correct


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All sorted out now. Owner has paid 2200dH duty on the wreck and is cleared to leave Morocco. I'll update more details later


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Well done, Mark - that's a good outcome.

Happy trails,

Peter

Total Loss of Vehicle - Help Needed
 

So a summary of our experience.

Moroccan Army Police Fire Service and Recovery truck arrived at the scene about 4.5 hours after the incident. We were roughly 60km south of Smara at the time and about 3 hours drive.

We had to return with them that night which meant 3-4hours on very badly corrugated military piste in the dark.

Processing by the police was fairly reasonable. Can't really work out why they needed to know the owners grandparents names but hey it's Morocco!

They originally told us we didn't need to see Customs and they would clear the TVIP. Later this changed.

The police produced a report but kept the vehicle Registration documents and TVIP (this is a problem!) and gave us a sealed letter for customs in Laayoune.

We then drove to Laayoune and today saw the Customs people (location listed in iOverlander now). They informed us the police should not have kept the documents but they sorted this out although it did delay things somewhat. Eventually they calculated the duty to be paid as 2280dH (1000 for Police 1200 for import duty on the wreck and we're not sure about the rest. A nice shiny receipt was issued the TVIP cleared and the owner free to leave.

The police took 6 hours to deal with and Customs about 4. Long winded and overly complicated but not too bad considering language barriers etc and the problem cause by the police keeping the documents


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Sorry to read this, but glad you got it sorted.

Dare I ask what happened, were you off piste or on a Gandini track? I'll understand if you don't want too answer.

Safe travels, Mark

I have occasionally met Spaniards with a trailer carrying the remains of their rolled over 4x4s back to Spain, from Mauretania and from Western Sahara.
My experiences with moroccan customs as a tourist have been very positive the last six seven years. They've been immensely helpful, but also formal and strict.

Total Loss of Vehicle - Help Needed
 

We were on a P road which I believe forms part of one of the Gandini Routes. The rest will have to wait until the owner decides to post the details


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OK, many thanks fully understand. My last 4x4 trip; I planned to spend 2wks on Gandini tracks in WS, but as a solo vehicle and in a Landy (not jokes please :) )

I was advised by some local knowledgeable friends, that it might not be the best idea I've had. And humbly, regrettably, did "safer" tracks.....and the water pump broke a few days later. Lucky, is not the word.

Had the same dilemma a few weeks ago on a moto south of Smara.
Easy to plan big back home; another thing once you get to the sharp end with 600km in front of you. Technically it may well be possible, but relies on nothing going wrong at all. And as we have seen, stuff happens.

Turned back from a couple of northern pistes too.

imho knowing when to turn back is a key skill, unfortunately in the UK a lot of people learn their offroad skill at a pay & play site and when they apply that in an overland situation get into a lot of trouble

Travelling Alone Offroad.
 

My 'navo' and I always travel alone in our LR Def as we are retired and it is usually to difficult to co-ordinate with others on dates etc.

We are experienced desert travellers so being on our own is not an issue in itself.

HOWEVER....we drive defensively off road and never rush around against the clock which can be a problem for others on a tight schedule or,with to much adreneline coursing through their veins behind the wheel. We never speed, as above 60km/hr on piste you risk rollover. I was taught to drive on graded roads by a professional company in Oman who's own policy was not to drive above 80km/hr.Most of us found this too fast for the prevailing conditions.The piste conditions can change in a flash and reactions above this speed are unpredictable.

Vehicle breakdown is the biggest threat to travelling alone.Our LR is 5 yrs old and kept well maintained but the risk of breakdown offroad when the vehicle is being well used is higher than normal. The chances of having the right parts for a BD are,in my experience,not good so you may have to be prepared to sit it out,while further action is arranged. We always carry plenty of water and it would not phase us to wait a while but we are flexible as regards time!

As others have said,when to turn back is a key skill,not a defeat.If an offroad track starts to look ify and/or needs a bit of work done on it,then it usually gets worse not better!

Finally,the level of 'remoteness'. We have just returned from a 4 wk trip mainly in the Seguite Al Hamra.Comparatively speaking we found this region interesting and VERY REMOTE.Some areas had plenty of bedou and others not. My general advice to others now would be not to do it alone if you can,not because of dangers but because of the high hassle and time loss factors if you did BD.

Many of the Gandini tracks for this area are remote,ill defined,not well used and hard on the vehicle. I am pleased with my trip but on reflection would only do some of the routes again with 1-2 other vehicles,strictly because of the remoteness.

We find travelling alone very enjoyable but,one has to accept the hassle that could be attached. And the risks? Well,how do you agree to rank them.It's what we all do. Shall we have a few more assessment sessions to make it all go away?