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Two Scandinavian women found dead near Imlil
Below Mount Toubkal, reportedly they had been beheaded.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...cos-high-atlas |
Sadden by this, thoughts are with the families.
Morocco, and the world doesn't need it, just fuels hatred of muslims and keeps tourists away. |
Very sad news.
But a lot of very conflicting information in the media at present. Apparently a suspect has been arrested this morning. It'll be a while before the full facts are out. |
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My thoughts are with the victims, their families, and those who will suffer from the fallout of this hideous act. |
Already the European media are using this to further the anti Islamic agenda, with reports today that Morocco is dangerous for tourists, and tourists should be accompanied by a guide
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Apparently all three suspects that have been arrested are from Marrakech. It looks like a sexual assault rather than anything religion-inspired.
From a report elsewhere it seems the girls were wild camping somewhere off the footpath between Sidi Chamrouse and the refuges. https://www.moroccoworldnews.com/201...mount-toubkal/ |
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I have travelled in this area and was made to feel welcome everywhere I went (apart from a really angry food stall maddame in Marrakech!). Normally wild campers pass under the radar and go unoticed hence why I wonder if the poor girls were followed! |
sorry should have read the report its not that long.
So the three suspects were also camping in the area hence how they crossed paths with the victims. |
Wannabe terrorists who posted a video online of the murder.
https://www.vg.no/nyheter/utenriks/i...terrorhandling https://www.moroccoworldnews.com/201...co-terror/amp/ Most unexpected to happen in a place like Imlil |
An update from a media article from a source with a positive reputation: Morocco killing of Scandinavian women linked to militants, says prosecutor
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ays-prosecutor |
still a lot of conflicting media reports around. 1 minute they've caught the suspects, next they haven't. Claims cctv footage filmed the suspects in Imilil, conflicting quotes from one of the victims mothers in different media outlets etc etc.
Whatever the final story is its a truly tragic event Tourism is going to be hit hard as the media use this, already a Norwegian friends has had all his customers for Morocco tours cancel |
The two men who were arrested and subsequently released were guys identified from a video recorded in Marrakech on one of the girl's phones and were nothing to do with the murder.
Translated from Norwegian, "Reporters in Imlil on Wednesday afternoon were able to watch a video from a surveillance camera showing three men rushing past the area around 03.00am on Monday. They go down a road leading north to Marrakech, and out of the mountain area. The police suspect that these are three men who flee from the scene." Morocco World News says the other three other suspects who were being sought were arrested this morning: https://www.moroccoworldnews.com/201...vian-tourists/ http://www.morocco-knowledgebase.net...l-approach.png This is an overview of the trail from Imlil to Toubkal, with the hatched area showing where the attack took place. |
I don't think free camping in plain sight from road, track or village is something that can be recommended anywhere in the world, except for (maybe) Norway, Sweden, Finnland.
Dont know how visible they were, but their tent wasnt exactly camouflage. Better stay in the campingground then. Certainly not suggesting they should be blamed for anything! What do you think? Men Arrested for Killing Women in Morocco Tied to ISIS | Time |
Well mentioned priffe. Not sure it would have helped in this case but I say as much in this post and have advised it in my overland books for years.
And yet I only came to this conclusion when I was about the same age as the victims, after a few years of travels. |
Do we really think that the camp site location had anything to do with this tragic event?
[user removed] clearly has no idea about Morocco, |
I think they had been better off staying at the camping ground, yes.
If you have local knowledge, or if you have a lot of experience with free camping then maybe ok. As I see it, you have two choices, you either stay close to other good people, or you hide yourself well so you can be left alone and not woken up in the night. It is very unpleasant when there are headlights or torches coming close in the night, even if it is just the gendarmes looking after you. If they can find you, so can others. So I am 100% with Chris on this one. The idea of these boys coming up with their own tent on the mountain, armed with knives, it is as if they were looking for tourists to go after. Crazy. The Sun is happy to provide all the gruesome details https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/803331...tims-families/ It is quite possible they were targeted already in Marrakech, and followed from there, after staying there one week at a budget hotel. |
Trouble is the nearest formal campground is Marrakech or Taliouine. The area in question is well frequented with hikers and tourists.
Personally I think is very wrong to suggest that this was a result of camping in the wrong location. While we are still waiting for more details (and more accuracy in reporting) it would appear that the perpetrators were probably actively looking for easy targets. Since the first report surfaced early in the week Ive spent a lot of time reading the different media reports and ill informed online comment, but I don't recall seeing any suggestion that the victims were followed from Marrakech. I agree with the general rules for wild camping and regularly get frustrated by free loading tourists trying to wild camp in the wrong places (like the hippy encampment currently growing in the Todra Gorgea a few km from proper camping) |
I'm terrible sorry for those women. I've been a lot of times in that area. I only can say that Morocco is an absolutely safe country. Being in the wrong place at the wrong time can put you in trouble in Morocco as in your home. It seems to be a terrorist attack. People involved in sirias war are returning to their countries and trying to continue their cause. Insane but real. Be careful out there but don't stop travelling.
Enviado desde mi Redmi Note 5 mediante Tapatalk |
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https://www.vg.no/nyheter/utenriks/i...or-dobbeltdrap There must be plenty places to put up a tent if one insists on not having a room. How about the French Alpine Club if you want to be further up the mountain? €13. |
The report adds nothing that hasn't been reported already elsewhere, the facts are still not completely known
A friend of mine and fellow traveller in Morocco lives close to the family of one of the victims and will be visiting them in the coming weeks |
If you think Morocco is unsafe then its clear you have little knowledge of the country. 3 terrorist attacks on tourists in the last 15 years is a lot less than the UK has had
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Myself Trail ride 2000 miles for the last 3 years, traveling off road staying in small villages with no issues,
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My wife and i lived in Jakarta during the years of the appauling Bali bombings.We saw the subsequent devastation the events brought to the livelihood of the local people as tourists stayed away.
We shall be wild camping as usual during the coming months and buying the usual crop of fossils etc that we dont really need and will think of these girls as we do our meager bit to help the local people through what are now going to be tough times for them. We hope most forum members will be able to do the same. |
With the discovery of social media postings prior to the murders, in which the suspected attackers declared their allegiance to Isis, there seems no doubt that the attack was premeditated.
According to a Norwegian report the girls had been camping at Les Mouflons refuge (at 3,200m below the Toubkal summit) and for some reason halted their descent to Imlil to camp near a cabin next to the track. This was totally isolated, several kilometres from the refuges and over 1km from Sidi Chamrouse further down the track. A mountain guide had previously advised the girls not the camp alone, saying, "They were in a good mood when they were at our guide office. We went through their equipment to see that they had everything they needed. Then we advised them to bring a local guide, but they said they wanted to go on their own." The same guide subsequently also met the four men who have now been arrested, see https://www.nrk.no/urix/motte-bade-m...kte-1.14351747 The three suspects arrested on a bus in Marrakech had shaved off their beards. They were on their way to Agadir armed with several long knives and there is a strong suspicion that a second attack on tourists was prevented by their arrest. Since then, nine more men suspected of being involved in Monday's murders and of being ISIS members have been arrested in Morocco in areas including Chtouka Ait Baha (south of Agadir--note the paragraph above), Marrakech, Essaouira, Tanger and Sidi Bennour (near Casablanca). https://www.moroccoworldnews.com/201...thern-morocco/ A petition has been started by Moroccans asking for the death sentence for the murderers per the Moroccan Penal Code as the murders were premeditated (article 393) and used acts of barbarism (article 399). Morocco still has the death penalty but hasn't used it in more than twenty years. https://www.change.org/p/bcij-dgsn-a...avian-tourists The biggest danger at the moment is copycat attacks and I guess the BCIJ will be sweeping up every suspect on their radar. |
It seems such a tragedy that these Scandinavian women were murdered. I've never met a Scandinavian traveller who wasn't full of joy at visiting another country, coming from such peace loving countries.
Not that it will in any way put me off visiting Maroc next year without worry. I've always had the impression that the population at large are incredibly incensed by extremism and are always keen to show friendliness to strangers which I think is just about as much to do with being Moroccan than any religious inclination to do so! |
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I'm not saying don't travel, just be aware you as a foreign traveller are at more risk in certain parts of the world than others, so behave and take precautions accordingly. As I guess we all know. |
After 20 years in Morocco I’m very familiar with the country, it’s people and any slight risks
I don’t think population levels has anything to do with the issue. My post was in repose to a post that has now been deleted (good work mods[emoji41]). Hopefully I’ll be back in March for another 6 months in a country that is as safe as anywhere Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
The odds are still greater of dying from an allergic reaction to a bee sting, so I'm with TheWarden on this.
I've just this minute booked flight to Spain for early January, I will then pack up the KTM 690 Enduro and set off to Morocco for six weeks. |
"The level of our advice has not changed."
FYI, this is the latest statement put out by the Australian Government's Dept of Foreign Affairs and Trade for Morocco:
Saturday, 22 December 2018 Latest update Two foreign nationals were murdered by suspected terrorists while hiking in December 2018. Moroccan authorities have arrested four individuals in connection with the murders, including one they say had links to “an extremist group”. The level of our advice has not changed. Exercise a high degree of caution in Morocco overall. Higher levels apply in some parts of the country. |
Like previous replies, I'm off again in January, only got back 2wks ago, I love Morocco.
But as a bloke I don't get the unwanted hassle of female travellers, which I know has, and does happen in far too many parts of this world still. While I agree about their wild camping "location", these were "prepared" travellers who had taken precautions, sadly just in the wrong place at the wrong time. IMHO What could any of us do against 3/4 men with knives?! Just sad it happen in Morocco, of all places. Safe travels all! |
Swiss national arrested in connection with murders in Morocco
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ers-in-morocco |
The latest suspect arrested in Marrakech is described as a Swiss national who also holds Spanish citizenship. I imagine he is of Moroccan, or Muslim, heritage. He has been accused of providing technical communications and firearms training and logistic assistance to the primary suspects. The man is also accused of spearheading radicalisation activities to lure Moroccan nationals and sub-Saharan migrants to join their cell.
This brings the total under arrest to 19—the four primary suspects, nine more on 20-21 Dec, then another five more, and then the Swiss/Spanish suspect. The first hearing of the four primary suspects in the Scandinavian murders is due to be held in Rabat on Monday, 31 December. ________________ In what now looks like an unconnected crime, a woman's decapitated body was found Friday28 Dec in the Middle Atlas region. The location has been described as the Oued Ifrane rural community located between Ifrane and Azrou, however I suspect it might actually be Zaouia Ifrane which is off the N8 main road between Azrou and M'rirt. The victim is reported to be a 24-year old divorcee and police are searching for a 38-year old suspect who is a shepherd and has since disappeared. But if it was a 'simple' murder, why was the woman decapitated? Was this to try to throw the police off the scent, was it in a rage of hatred? Very worrying. |
Worrying indeed Tim, especially when you take into account the latest high profile rape cases. Yes, tourists weren't attacked, but I see no problem lone male or female/s carrying personal attack alarms now.
Use to many yrs ago, and all over the world, perhaps as travel becomes easier, we're becoming blase. |
As fighters are displaced from Syria and Iraq it's to be expected they will pop up in other parts of the world, perhaps their countries of origin or just where they see the opportunity to gather support. Be careful out there, countries that were safe in the past may not be so safe now.
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Tim
Am afraid chopping off women's heads in the course of a homicide is more common then u would think. The ones I dealt with were done by Sihks and Hindus, none of them had anything to do with terrorism. Thinking of my travels around India, it happened there Alot too........... Its a sad world I'm afraid |
I'm getting a lot of 'lets all stay at home where we think it is safe vibe' coming out of here. After a few years, my understanding is that the internet knows nothing of a really good adventure, wherever.
This is a travel forum where we are required to give good informed information on travel safety. No preaching please. Information is useful but opinion needs to be stated and recognised as such. |
I haven't seen anyone suggesting we stay at home. Being safe is another matter.
And I welcome any information coming out of here that helps us all keep travelling safely. |
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I read this today.
A Moroccan appeals court has upheld death sentences against three Moroccan men for murdering two Scandinavian women in the Atlas mountains last December. A fourth man was also handed capital punishment after he was sentenced to life in prison by an anti-terrorism court on July 18th. The other three were handed death sentences at the time. Louisa Vesterager Jespersen (24), from Denmark, and Maren Ueland (28), from Norway, were killed in their tent near the Moroccan village of Imlil, a popular hiking destination. The anti-terrorism court in Sale, near Rabat, had heard that the men had pledged allegiance to Islamic State in a video days before the murder. Two of them - Abdessamad Ejjoud and Youness Ouziyad - had told the court they had decapitated the women, while the third - Rachid Afatti - said he filmed the killing and posted the footage online. The fourth man, Abderrahmane Khiali, said he was part of the group but left before the murders. Twenty other people who prosecutors said had links to the killers were sentenced to between five and 30 years for forming a criminal gang to commit terrorist acts, encouraging terrorism, undermining public order and other crimes. Although capital punishment is legal in Morocco, the country has had a freeze on executions since 1993. |
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