GPS - Global Puzzlement System?
 

Hi,

Just spent a (quite a) few happy hours learning a bit about GPS and making my brain hurt. I have a few questions that you people might be able to help me with. I'm looking for a handheld unit that can be mounted to the bike because I would like to carry it with me if I go off hiking or whatever and I don't want to carry a supercomputer. I haven't used a GPS in anger before so consider me a total novice...

Do all GPS provide altitude? Some seem to mention it as a feature linked to an inbuilt barometer but I'm guessing that this just provides a more accurate reading?

Are the barometer features useful? It would seem so to me because it would allow some short-term weather forecasting that could avert misery. Altimiters and barometers are available in watches so perhaps that is the way to go?

Some have digital compasses. How important is that? It doesn't feel very essential to me given that you have to carry a compass anyway?

I was originally quite taken with the Garmin Etrex units but I have read quite a few bad reports of reliability and robustness (and company attitude towards it) so I looked further afield. The Magellan Meridian's (especially the Platinum)look good, and sturdy, but has anyone really given one a hard life, there doesn't seem to be much in the way of comments on Magellan?

The Silva multi navigator looks good too in that it seems to have all the features you could want but keeps the package simple e.g. no colours or icons or fancy mapping. I like this 'tool for the job' approach but has anone out there tried one? are they easy to use or have they gone too far in the quest for simplicity.

I have begun to get a bit suckered by the mapping features. I know they will be useless for the remote regions I am planning to visit but do they become really useful when you approach civilisation e.g locating embassies etc or are they a complete waste of money? If they are useful then the Magellan looks top banana because it takes SD cards so you don't run out of memory. BTW, I don't plan on taking a laptop, just a PDA and a mobile phone.

I guess my shortlist if I went for all the above features would be

Magellan Meridian Platinum (expensive)
Garmin 76S (even more expensive)
Silva Multi Navigator (don't know the price yet)

If the voice of experience says 'forget the barometer, compass and mapping' then I guess ther are plenty of other cheaper (but still robust) units that do the job?

Thanks Andy.

Andy,

Fist of all I am not an expert, but have used my gps for the last couple of years, mostly for hiking, hunting that type of thing. First of all it is not a replacement for common sense and outdoor skills. I have seen people try that and if the battries die they panic. I have the etrex vista with mapping, compass the works. This is how mine works, but others may be diffrent.

The map can be very handy at times, but is not necessary depending on how you want to use it.

The compass is a handy feature as well. Esp if your non electronic one gets lost or broken. Also if your not sure you can double check your direction, magnetic declination etc.

The altimeter uses barometric pressure to determin altatud, but can be calibrated either using a known elevation marker like at airports or the gps will give you an altude that is close enough. I haven't found mine useful, but I could see its use in going through high elevations, mountains etc.

All have waypoints and I recommend setting those once in a while so if you do get lost, you can find your way back to where you were not lost and start over.

Most have track logs, again a good way to back track.


Used in cojuction with a decent map you can pin point where you are at on a map, but I recommend you dont use this only. Remember if you do that and it gets broken in a crash you are lost. Be sure to get a GPS that has multipal map datums so you can use the one that goes with your map. Otherwise you will be off any where from a few feet to a couple of miles. Not good if things are going bad.

I think a GPS is a very handy tool to double check your other skills, but not a cure all. I guess the best way to put it is don't go anywhere with a GPS you wouldnt go without one. Always always always have non electronic maps of the area if possable to use in conjuction with the GPS that have UTM markings. I hope this helps.


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John

All modern GPS units offer altitude as part of its location data. However, depending on the unit, and for reasons that will take too long to explain here, altitude data aren’t as accurate as long/lat data. That’s why some units feature an altimeter.

Barometers are useful if you need them. I never needed one in the Sahara personally.

A built in digital compass is nice to have as a backup. However make sure that the unit is equipped with a real digital compass. Modern GPS units WITHOUT a compass will still give you a compass display while you’re moving since it tracks your movement and tell which way you’re heading. If you stand still and turn the unit around it won’t correct your heading. I hope I’m making myself clear here….

I would consider the mapping features essential only if you’re going to travel on-road in well developed areas like Europe and the US. Other than that, forget it. You can still store embassies waypoints on a regular GPS if you want to.

Ask yourself if you really need the barometer, altimeter or any other of those cool add-ons. I still use the basic Garmin II+ and I’m very happy with it. When I feel like going hi-tech for a while I hook up my laptop and display some topo maps.

In my opinion I would get 2 cheap units rather than one expensive one for fault tolerance’s sake.

Also make sure you write all your waypoints down in your notepad at regular intervals, twice a day if you’re going off-road. GPS units do fail and might reset its memory for no apparent reason. This is less of a problem with modern units but it still happens.

Hope this helps.

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A.B.

OasisPhoto.com – Images from the Magical Sahara.
ShortWheelbase.com – Jeep preparations.

I posted a couple of navigation books on my site OasisPhoto.com (Check the reading room).


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A.B.

OasisPhoto.com – Images from the Magical Sahara.
ShortWheelbase.com – Jeep preparations.

Thanks for all your help on this. At the moment, my ideal product does not exist :-(

I really want a robust handhled unit that I can hike with that does not support mapping (making it cheaper) but does support bluetooth (wireless) so that I can use a PDA as the mapping part to plan routes and track progress. PDA's have much better res screens, and larger, and the mapping software looks good in that you can calibrate and scan in your own maps which you then view on the PDA / PC and can be used for route planning and tracking etc.

Given that I am taking a PDA anyway in preference to a laptop, it makes sense to use it's capabilities for mapping. None of the GPS that support mapping allow you to download other peoples maps and their own software doesn't support Pocket PC / Palm. This would be ok if they could supply topo maps of much of the world but they don't.

The PDA GPS sleeves simply don't look robust enough to me and I don't want the reliability of the GPS to be linked to the reliability of the PDA anyway.

If I was happy with a cable connecting the GPS and PDA then I could easily do this. It would be ok on the bike but a pain when hiking. Roll on the next range of bluetooth enabled handheld GPS units! There is one on the market made by a company called Fortuna (I think) but it looks more of a business focused GPS rather than one that's designed to be sunk / kicked / trodden on.

Hopefully someone from Garmin or Magellan will read this plea.

Cheers Andy.

For hiking, since you won’t be covering a lot of ground, I would stick only to a non mapping GPS. I prepare my route on the PC and print the area covered on a small peace of paper complete with routes and waypoint. I follow the GPS and explore a bit using the map. This limits the amounts of equipment I carry / can fail / carry batteries for etc…

I would keep the PDA / Laptop options for a bike / car setup and even then I would take very good care of the PDA and try to protect it as well as I can. I haven’t seen a PDA that could stand the outdoors well. I know there are some outdoor / industrial / indestructible models out there but these cost a fortune and they’re still susceptible to regular loss of data and software errors (don’t you just love windows http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/ubb/smile.gif )

If you decide to go with a PDA while hiking anyway, here are some solutions that might help:

1) Garmin has released their own Palm with a built in GPS, the iQue 3600. No need for Bluetooth or wires or anything. I know the unit comes with it’s own vector mapping software, which is still a proprietary system, but it’s a Plam. I’m sure you can upload any mapping software you like.

2) Get one of those minimalist GPS that look like the external antennas. These are very small full functioning GPS units that don’t have any display or buttons. You just hook them up (usually via a wire) to a PDA or PC and run a mapping software. Get one of those, shorten the wire and fix it somehow to the PDA. You got yourself a small portable mapping unit.

3) Get an Otter Box to protect your PDA and fix the small GPS to it.

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A.B.

OasisPhoto.com – Images from the Magical Sahara.
ShortWheelbase.com – Jeep preparations.

[This message has been edited by A.B. (edited 06 August 2003).]

Agreed, PDA'a are built for the office jungle not the real jungle, but the otter boxes look great, have you tried one? I saw the iQue from Garmin but wouldn't buy it because PDA technology moves so fast I wouldn't want the two (PDA and GPS) in one unit. My Palm Vx is already suffering dodgy buttons and for what I paid for it, I can get something so much better now. Ditto the 'headless' GPS's, these are a good in car solution IMHO but again they leave your navigation reliant on the robustness of the PDA and that's a risk too far for me..on a bike at least. I think the Silva Multi-Navigator would be ideal if it had wireless. If nothing comes out I'll just go with a cable based PDA - GPS solution for the bike and forget the PDA when hiking as you suggest. The main thing is that the GPS *always* works, the mapping / routing / track storage provided by the PDA is just sugar.

Cheers Andy.

Bugger, hit the wrong button! Sorry.

You wrote:
" does not support mapping (making it cheaper) but does support bluetooth (wireless) so that I can use a PDA as the mapping part to plan routes and track progress. "

How good's your french? I found at www.rueducommerce.com a product which answers what you're looking for. Do a product search for GPS in the top left, and you'll find the "GPSmart bluetooth" (ref gpsmart bt).
Dunno who makes it, or how good the tech support would be, but the shop gives a very good turnaround on guarantee items; I've bought other stuff from them.
Considering it only costs £180 you can afford an Otter box to protect it, you don't even have to make holes for wires!
Good luck
Luke

Hi,

Yeah thats the only bluetooth handheld available at the moment and its made by fortuna. It only seems to support one datum though so if you were navigating using it (rather than the PDA) it might be no good.

I've been thinking more about this and since I've learned about the Otter Box (thanks A.B.) I'm coming round to the idea that perhaps a PDA is up to the job. The new iPaq 2210 looks really good, much smaller than the other iPaqs and takes CF and SD cards so you could put an IBM microdrive in the CF slot and have 1Gb worth of maps on it, and use the SD slot for other stuff. One of these coupled with OziExplorer and either the Fortuna GPSSmart or a 'headless' receiver like the EMTAC Crux II (which would fit nicely in the small pocket on my Camelback in a waterproof bag) *might* be really good.

GlobalPositioningSystems in the UK have a fairly good package deal on with these at the moment...

http://www.globalpositioningsystems....product_id=269

I think I'll wait for a while though as these bluetooth enabled GPS's are fairly new to the market and the prices are a bit steep and should come down fairly rapidly. I have also read that EMTAC might be making a version that includes a datalogger to record tracks so that you don't need to keep the PDA switched on.

I found this a useful site for information and in-depth reviews:
http://www.pocketgps.co.uk

Cheers Andy.

Wow!

Just found this product due out soon, basically tiny NMEA 12 channel GPS receiver that you can dock to a power pack / bluetooth dockingstation. It looks like a brilliant idea and just what I've been waiting for. According to the press releases will be sold for less than 300USD which would include the receiver and the powerpack / bluetooth docking station.

Can't wait :-O

http://www.delorme.com/earthmate/con....asp#bluetooth

Things are heating up in the GPS world these days http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/ubb/smile.gif

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A.B.

OasisPhoto.com – Images from the Magical Sahara.
ShortWheelbase.com – Jeep preparations.

Yeah the pace is quickening. I wonder how long it will be before Oakley or Scott integrate GPS into their goggles so that the direction arrow can be projected onto the inside of the lens like a fighter pilot head up display. If you're reading this Mr Oakley or Mr Scott I will expect a royalty :-)

Of interest to anybody considering purchasing GPS kit: check the American markets on e-bay, they are sometimes unbelievably cheap. I have just bought a Garmin e-trex for $100 (including shipping.)

Good tip. Did you end up paying any VAT or import duty or was it mailed as a low value gift? As I understand it, a major courier like UPS or DHL will charge you the duty themselves on delivery so that there is no chance of 'escape' unless the value is set low enough on the paperwork. Is this right?

Andy.

Hi,

New product from RoyalTek, the RBT 3000 is a bluetooth GPS receiver with a datalogger built in.

This means that (in theory at least) you can leave the PDA switched off while the GPS happily collects track points. These then get downloaded to the PDA the next time you power it on. I think this is great because if you are walking, you can still track your progress without running the PDA batteries flat in a few hours!

I just emailed Delorme to see if they intend to add a datalogger to the new Earthmate product (which looks great by the way) and I'll post the results here.

Andy.

Does anybody have experience with Royal Tech Reliability and Performance wise?

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A.B.

OasisPhoto.com – Images from the Magical Sahara.
ShortWheelbase.com – Jeep preparations.

Hi,

Can't comment personally on either performance or reliability as I haven't owned any kind of gps yet.

However, reading the reviews online it seems that all the GPS recievers that use the new SiRF low power chipset have very good performance in terms of TTFF, number of fixes, sensitivity, accuracy and power consumption. From what I have read so far, they seem to meet (or sometimes exceed) the performance of normal handheld GPS in all except battery life, although the Royaltek is good with 10.5 hours continuous (can be extended by ~30% by using low power mode available with the latest v2.3 firmware). Thats better than many handhelds.

As these are solid state devices there are no mechanical parts to break, except the solder joints and circuits, I think reliability will come down to waterproofing (easily achieved with a bag), and vibration / shock proofing. If the receiver is placed in a backpack or pocket, there will be no problems with vibration but you'd be running on batteries so when on the bike it would be preferable to have it mounted and plugged in to power. For this, I think a vibration proof mount is the way to go. I think most of the robustness concern should be focused on the PDA. Mountain bikers are using these PDA / Bluetooth GPS receiver combinations and I reckon a mountain bike gives some fairy serious shocks through the bars, especially when you consider the relative lack of suspension they have. These devices are all pretty new to the market so I don't think any real world long term reliability info is going to be available for a while. The reviews and feedback so far seem promising though.

My *personal* view on the handheld vs PDA / bluetooth situation as it stands now is:

Traditional Handheld Pro:
>Single compact unit, relatively cheap.
>Availability of extra 'nice' features like barometers & digital compasses although nothing that can't be obtained in a watch if you want it...at extra expense.
>Quite good battery life (Excellent on the Silva) - Only matters when away from the bike.
> Most seem to have good track logging features which seems very useful if you get lost!
>Trusted global suppliers e.g. Garmin, Magellan, Silva etc
>Well tried and tested in extreme environments some seem more robust and reliable than others but there are lots of opinions and evidence available to make a safe choice.

Traditional Handheld Con:
> Poor screen (compared to new PDA's)
> Lack of topo maps.
> Restricted to the manufacturer to supply digital maps plus you have to buy paper maps too anyway. Not a problem for street maps but useless for topo.
> Paper maps cannot be scanned and downloaded to GPS.
> Software doesn't come with PDA version meaning you need access to a laptop to download maps / plan & manage routes / waypoints or use alternative software like OziExplorer but that can't read the digital maps supplied by the handheld manufacturers because of commercial licensing.
> Limited support for waypoint / route / track management and storage (although the Magellan has a CF card slot that solves this.

PDA / Bluetooth Pro:
> Superior screen
> Plenty of storage capacity for routes & maps etc if you get a model that has a CF card slot, or one of the equivalents like SD card or sony memory stick.
> Software like Ozi enables you to plan routes and navigate entirely on the PDA using scanned paper maps. No laptop necessary, no downloading to GPS necessary.
> Can either use bought digital maps or scanned paper maps, not tied to a single supplier.
> Routes / waypoints / tracks etc can be uploaded to the internet via bluetooth or cable to mobile phone for extra backup.
> PDA / mobile has many other uses e.g. journal, contacts, tracking finances, email & web access when away from internet cafes.
> Relatively cheap way to get GPS if you are going to buy a PDA anyway.

PDA / Bluetooth Con:
> Expensive if you are not going to get a PDA anyway.
> Two separate devices to mount / carry / lose. Both devices must be operational to navigate.
> Fragility of devices unknown although there seem to be many solutions to this like otterboxes, waterproof bags, vibration proof mounts. These actually achieve greater protection than offered by many handhelds. Also, the reports from mountain bike users on robustness is promising but thin on the ground.
> Need to buy extra software like Ozi for mapping, but this is cheap-ish.
> Battery life (only matters away from bike) - The GPS recievers are ok (Earthmate, RoyalTek) but the PDA's are not so good especially with bluetooth permanently switched on.
> PDA must be always on to record tracks (see battery life!) UNLESS you go for a receiver with built in datalogger like the RoyalTek or Deluo BlackBox GPS. I emailed Delorme to ask if they intend to put a datalogger in the Earthmate but have had no response as yet. The Earthmate has a really nice flexible battery arrangement but without a datalogger you would be limited by the PDA battery life when away from the bike.

Summary, all just my opinion of course, comments welcome!:

>If you just want reliable location and direction and aren't interested in digital topo maps buy a non-mapping handheld...duh.
>If you want street mapping / navigation and don't mind being tied to a single map supplier buy a handheld.
>If you are not prepared to take a chance on new technology, buy a handheld. Personally though I think new handhelds are just as likely to suffer gremlins as any other technology. Don't rely on technology, buy a compass and paper maps is the advice from most experienced people I have spoken to.
>If you dont like being tied to a single map supplier, go for a PDA solution.
>If you don't want to buy digital maps in addition to paper maps, go for a PDA solution - no good for street auto routing though, you have to buy proper street mapping PDA software for that.
>If you want digital topo mapping and extended planning and management capabilities, go for the PDA solution.

If you want to minimise your need to be near a laptop or internet cafe, go for a PDA solution.

Incidentally, I ruled out:
>GPS mouse - needs power, no good when away from bike..very cheap though.
>CF card GPS / GPS sleeve - drastic effect on PDA battery life and PDA would need to be on constantly to record tracks. Uses up CF slot and swapping in and out with memory cards increases chance of failure.

My personal best of breed solution (today) is:

PDA:
HP iPaq 2210. CF and SD card slots, fast, good screen, bluetooth built in, small and light. Not bad battery life. Will probably use an IBM microdrive in the CF slot for 1Gb of storage.

GPS:
Royaltek RBT3000/ Deluo BlackBox / Delorme Earthmate (but only if they add a datalogger). Bluetooth for wireless hiking, datalogger essential to conserve PDA batteries when away from bike while still maintaining track logging.

Software:
Ozi Explorer (CE) good software, good price, powerful waypoint / route planning and management. Use scanned paper maps. Lots of nice little addons like a program that will take a Ozi track log and link it to the information stored in images from most digital cameras so that my pictures are 'located'.

Protection:
Waterproof PDA wallet (Aquapac?), plus shock / vibration proof mountian bike mount that I will 'customise' to add extra crash padding for the PDA. When off the bike, the PDA will be round my neck on a lanyard so extra padding is unnecessary but it will still be in the waterproof wallet. I considered the Otterbox but it is just too big for my liking, ok on the bike but a pain off it.

Battery life:
This little beauty I found today so you can recharge any low power electronic device using elbow power in an emergency:
http://www.gpspassion.com/fr/articles.asp?id=65&page=4

Maps:
Scanned paper maps. Might consider some autorouting PDA software for Europe, North America and Australia but probably not as I'd rather have the cash in my pocket and ask directions when lost.

This selection is based around my plan which is that I intend to scan my paper maps and download them to the PDA, should fit quite a lot onto a 1Gb microdrive. Additional map scanning and downloading to PDA while on the road will be done at internet cafes or friendly souls that don't mind me using their computer. Plan my routes at home on my laptop, and on the road on the PDA using OziExplorer / OziCE. Upload tracklogs from GPS datalogger to PDA and save all of them so I have a *complete* record of my trip. Keep journal etc on PDA. Backup all PDA data via internet either in internet cafe or via bluetooth to mobile phone (Sony - Ericsson T68i). Use PDA for email and web access when away from cafe's, including updating of weblog from journal entries. Get a mate at home to archive all data to CD for me. When I get back, link all my pictures / sound clips / video clips / journal entries / GPS tracks together to make a complete trip log. Use PDA as mp3 player when I miss my CD collection & hi-fi sooo much ;-) I think this gives me the navigation and level of record keeping I want with the minimum of time & hassle spent doing it, hence more time for beer and chatting. My main concern is reliance on fragile electronics but that also applies to traditional handheld GPS's and as everyone says 'learn to use a map and compass'. I'm going to wait a bit longer before taking the plunge with this stuff as it fairly new to market and I expect prices to drop...unless there is a nice sponsor out there who would like me to test it all for them ;-) Also I wouldn't mind reading a few more reviews and tests before parting with my own cash. I'll keep posting what I learn here.

Excellent sites for info, news and reviews:
www.pocketgps.co.uk
www.gpspassion.com

Phew, I hope someone can be bothered to read all that! Do I win a prize for the longest ever post on HU?

Take it easy, Andy.

Hi,

A bit more reading of web forums has revealed two things.

1) Yet another bluetooth GPS receiver has appeared on the market with a Lithium Polymer battery giving 16 hours battery life. They are coming thick and fast.

2) There are many people having problems with the bluetooth connection being intermittently dropped between the iPaq 2210 and the GPS receiver. Some people are having no problems at all but many are. My guess would be that its due to the new PocketPC 2003 operating system and drivers and should be sorted out in due course but for now...

It looks like these systems are not quite stable enough for our needs just yet...shame. Hopefully another month or two will bring:

a) Drop in price (possibly)
b) More GPS receiver devices with better battery life / dataloggers etc (definitely)
c) Improvements and fixes on the PDA side in areas of battery life and bluetooth connectivity bugs (likely).

If anyone else out there is experimenting with this kind of system, get in touch, I'm still tempted but will wait for some good evidence of reliability before taking the plunge.

Andy.

Hey Andy, where do you get all this time?
I've been going through the same sorts of deliberations too.
One of the considerations on the battery life subject is that for me the unit has to be able to take a universally available power source. A Li- ion battery is all very well until it's empty; what if you're on a three day hike?
AA cells are the answer, you can get them anywhere at a push, and your rechargeables are relatively cheap.
I feel that there are times that all one needs is a pointer of the type "where did I leave the car?" in a city for instance.
And then there are times when those extra functionalities are appreciated.
For integrated units, I used to be a Palmophobe until a friend showed me around his Palm organiser; now the only thing that turns me off the Garmin IQUE is the battery story. (Oh and the price considering I already have a Bluetooth compatible laptop)
So what we need is a Bluetooth ETREX or SPORTRACK. Works on its own on readily changeable batteries, and when you're in the car there is unlimited electricity to run the wireless connection (a bit silly as it requires a wire for the power).
Hey Garmin/Magellan, are you guys listening?

Hi Luke,

As for where do I get the time...shhhhh, I'm at 'work'....and I can type fast ;-)

I too would really like a bluetooth enabled traditional non-mapping handheld. They wouldn't even have to redesign the device, just add a bluetooth dongle to the GPS's connector, in the same way you can add a bluetooth dongle to a USB port on a laptop. That way you get the best of both worlds. Problem would be that the batteries power you get in a normal GPS would not be enough to run bluetooth for a reasonable amount of time. The only one is the Fortuna GPSSmart but that doesn't stand up very well in the reviews and is no match for a Garmin / Magellan 'proper' handheld.

As for the battery side of things, the new Delorme Earthmate has a cunning powerpack that gives you a user replaceable Li-Ion rechargeable or allows the use of AA batteries. It also incorporates bluetooth. Brilliant, I really like this product but it doesn't have a datalogger and I received a reply to my email stating that they have no plans for one either..bummer :-( They did say they'd pass the request on to their developers though so you never know. I really want a datalogger so that I can keep the PDA switched off when hiking because it is the PDA, not the GPS, that has the real limits on battery life. Some things are using Li-Polymer batteries now and I *think* these might have a longer life span than Li-Ion.

The other options are the manual recharger I mentioned in a previous post or a cheap PDA 'saver' that enables you to run from AA batteries if you need to.

I also rejected the iQue partly because of the battery life, but worse, the review I read stated that you couldn't use third party mapping software with it! i.e, they don't allow you to redirect the NMEA sentences through the serial ports so that they can be used by something like OziCE. So, once again you are tied to mapsource, totally missing the point of PDA navigation IMHO. I really don't like this commercial tie-in approach when it comes to what maps you can use. Plenty of solutions but none quite perfect yet. Fingers crossed.

BTW, the Dell Axim has built in bluetooth and you can buy a beefy battery for it but it doesn't have a built in CF card slot which rules it out for me.

I am keeping my eyes on the gpspassion web site as it seems the best for news and new releases.

Andy.

I'm impressed that there is software available that lets you scan in maps. I would suggest using a digital camera instead of a scanner and take pictures of the map while it is stretched out on a wall. I suspect a high-end camera would be able to capture an entire map with only a couple pictures.

I guess I'm going to jump into the GPS world and buy one for 20$USD on Ebay. All I want is one that can give me coordinates and output NMEA data. Albeit I've been lost in Guatemala City for 5 hours but it was kind of fun. http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/ubb/wink.gif

Cheers, Steve