Olaf versus OSM
 

I'm looking forward to another Morocco jaunt sometime soon and wondered about about the correlation between the Olaf map and Open Street Map.

A lot has changed since I last visited Morocco, not least of which is the wide availability of low cost touch screen tablets together with the plethora of cheap and often free, navigation and mapping applications.

For overlanding, Open Street Map would seem to be the obvious answer for contributed tracks and trails. So I am curious about whether OSM offers the same level of detail as Olaf.

Does anybody have any direct experience they can offer?

OSM, OLAF and T4A compared
 

Hi,

Last May during my shakedown trip in Morocco I was pleasantly surprised by the level of detail of the OSM map, compared to Tracks for Africa and Olaf's map. T4A is not a logical choice; they mainly focus on Southern Africa. Olaf's map seems somewhat outdated, whereas the OSM map is constantly being updated.
I had them installed on my Garmin Montana 600 and use Basecamp on the Mac.

To illustrate the difference, here's a detail on the same scale of the area around M'Hamid (gateway to the Moroccan Sahara):

http://www.geehurkmans.com/blogs/Olaf.jpg
Olaf

http://www.geehurkmans.com/blogs/OSM.jpg
OSM

http://www.geehurkmans.com/blogs/t4a.jpg
T4A

As you can see the OSM map is by far the better map. Or have I missed something?

Happy trails,

Gee

If you're going to use a Win Tablet you can have the best of both worlds and flip between each of them with a drop down menu.

If I had to have just one, I think I would go for OSM now, but the great thing about Olaf is you don't lose the minor roads (pistes) as you zoom out, meaning for planning it's far better.

I use both and theres pros and cons with each.

Generally I prefer Olaf for route planning and day to day use in Morocco off road and then switch to OSM when on the black stuff.

Olaf still has more pistes than OSM but where OSM does have them they are more accurate. I have also found pistes on one that doesn't appear on the other.

Generally when trip planning I plot using mapsource and Olaf then check if OSM has the route and if it does use the recalculate route option to get a more accurate plot. As a final check I then use the flyby option in google earth to double check the piste actually exists. 99% of the time if its in either olaf or osm the piste exists. Only once have I had a piste in OSM which didn't exist in the real world (turned into a goat track) and never with Olaf.

I have a third option 24Seven emailed me but didn't use it on the ground and when route planning found it had lots of phantom pistes.

Personally use both is the best option

Is it possible to have them visible at the same time on a Montana gps?

I have them both loaded, but I am unable to see them at the same time.
I have to go to "map information" > "select map" and enabled / disabled in order to choose one of them.

It must be a way to "overlay" them...

No.

One of the maps would need to 'made' transparent to do that ..
Making the map ... you'd need the source or deconstruct it from tiles .. then 'make' the map ... using what ever rules you want ... and to make it routable you'd need to buy some software .. think time + money = not worth it.

-----------------------
In the time between the start of this thread OSM would have improved. Has Olaf?
If you know something is missing from OSM you can add it .. provided the source is not copyright protected.

Hi,
thanks for the info.

Olaf's last update is from 2009.

Olaf has clearly stated his topo maps are not being updated anymore whereas OSM are.

Olaf is still a valid and useful mapset for Morocco and I tend to use it more on my Montana than OSM.

There is a piece of software that can combine osm maps but when I tried to combine OSM and Olaf it had loads of errors so not really practical for use.

A quick way to switch between mapsets on a Montana unit is to set up 2 profiles one using OSM and one using Olaf then you can quickly switch between the two.

For the sake of saving someone going on a wild goose chase re above post from The Warden.

You cannot select a map from within a profile.
The only way to select a map is as follows:
Using a Montana:
Press the Map icon
Press the 3 bars ( icon 2nd from bottom)
Press Setup Map
now 6 boxes are on your screen- chose Map Information/ Select Map
Press on one map then chose either Enable or Disable.

The same procedure also applies to some other Garmin Units.

To the Warden:
If I am mistaken, perhaps you would be kind enough to reply with a step-by-step how-to (as I have done above) which would be helpful. Thanks

Ok I have the following maps installed on my Montana

Basemap
Olaf
OSM
Europe City Nav

I have set up 3 profiles as follows

Automotive - Europe City Nav enabled
Morocco - Olaf enabled
Morocco Road - OSM enabled

so if I want to use a different mapset I change the profile accordingly. Enabling and disabling maps in different profiles is exactly as per your step by step

Methinks there is some confusion here!
The map selection cannot be linked to a profile.
I checked with Garmin today and they concurr.
Maybe it is a terminology thing!

Olaf versus OSM
 

I do the same as the Warden and yes it works. I have different profiles, each profile has a different map enabled. I use shortcuts to switch fast from one profile (map) to another. I use a program called Javawa device manager to rename OSM maps, this way you can use as many OSM maps you want.


www.amsterdamtoanywhere.nl

Could be, but I'm not sure how else to explain it. I suppose your selecting the profile rather than the map

It is a very useful feature

You are using a computer to change the map name.

Are both you and The Warden using montanas? And you have some way of change 'the profile' on the montana that does not select a new map? What key sequence do you use for that? OR are you changing the selected map .. the new map has a different 'profile' selected when you download it?

Yes also use the montana. When I send a new map to the montana using Javawa Device Manager, I rename the filename, mapname, etc. This new map will then be enabled in all profiles on the montana, after sending you can disable the map in all the profile exept the one you want to use it in. ( it can be the other way around as I dont have the montana by hand at this moment)


www.amsterdamtoanywhere.nl

Just tested it on the montana, it is like I expained above: after you have send the new map to the device you have to disable it in al the profiles exept one. If you do it like this you can use many different maps without errors


www.amsterdamtoanywhere.nl

Montana 600 for me

As Petrus says maps are available under all profiles, so you need to disable the ones you don't want in a particular profile

Access the map setup as Bertrand posted above. You can then enable/disable each map leaving one enabled in that profile. Repeat for other profiles and then when you change your profile your enabled map is displayed.

Then switching profiles switches the active map quickly

An apology to The Warden and to everyone
 

I was wrong :oops2: as trying to enable/disable maps in my 600 was erratic hence my call to Garmin who confirmed that it was not possible.

This has nagged me as it seemed strange that it would work one minute and not the next on my unit- so I did a hard reset- and it now works.

I telephoned Garmin again this morning and was initially told again that it could only be done with the original profiles- doh
This did not make sense to me so the matter was escalated to a more knowledgeable boffin and, lo and behold: YES, it can be done.

Apologies again to all for my bum steer! :blushing:

Just two cents, I downloaded Nepal (and more) from OSM with my phone, save the file to an external SD card, place this file in your garmin (62 st in my case) and bam! The whole map is in the device. In minutes (if wifi is decent!) You can add whole regions.
Perhaps old news, perhaps useful!

Alex

Fortune and Glory, kid. Fortune and Glory.

Download time will depend also on the number of bytes in the map ..

The larger the area - more bytes
The more detail in the map - more bytes

Don't think Nepal and surrounds will have much detail, thus less bytes thus less time for the download. Something to be said for less detail and less infrastructure? beer

It's a shame Olaf isn't being updated any more. I used to send very carefully curated submissions in the past which he found easy to add and I would be delighted if he was to add my fuel waypoints (330+) and hotel/camping waypoints (300+) into the mapsets. Probably wouldn't take half an hour.

I did look at what was involved in taking over the maintenance (assuming Olaf would agree) but it seems one heck of a learning curve. Olaf is definitely behind the times with some of the new motorways/expressways and OSM might have the edge on a street map of M'hamid (see previous post) but I'm more interested in remote stuff.

Major tracks haven't changed much and I've just had a quick check of an area I know well comparing OSM and Olaf. OSM lacks village names, hotel waypoints, and a lot of well-known tracks, so Olaf is still tops for me.

This might not be the same in the area you are interested in, OSM might be the best solution.

But I remain open minded and I'd love to move away from a reliance on obsolete Garmin Mapsource software (Basecamp is cr*p) and having to run Windows XP under Parallels Desktop under Mac OS! I couldn't even get up the enthusiasm to rerun my longstanding GPS workshop at the last HUBBUK meet.

I've had my mind blown by using Wayz in London. Why would anyone use Garmin/TomTom SatNav when you can have real-time crowd-updated traffic avoidances? I even get to see the location of fellow Wayzers on the screen who are reporting the conditions ahead of me.

So I'm now looking to mount my iPhone to the bike...

.

About the update for osm. .. while trekking I found some emergency shelters which were not on the gps. Also some other minor things. I wrote them down, can/should I upload them somewhere? Might be useful for others as well!

A map will never be 100% complete. They have never been (I remember my mon and dad in full panic with 3 kids on the back seat towing the caravan through a small village where there had to be a campsite.... ended up sleeping at a 'hell's angels' camp and my mom was scared as could be :o ) and they will never be a 100%.

Truthfully, that's good. Keeps you sane and keeps you thinking. I stopped using TomTom in Netherlands so I learn where the roads are. A look at signs, I read a map and - best of all - I ask for directions and talk to 'natives'. Yes, slower but so much more fun.
And while hiking, as long as I know I'm going the right direction, I don't need all the hotel's, exits, fuel stations... a basic hint and what's coming is maybe enough.

Alex



Fortune and Glory, kid. Fortune and Glory.

Glad you got it worked out, it really is nice feature and I use it a lot on my trips depending if I'm following a planned off road route or want turn by turn directions in a town. Obviously you can customise so much its not just the maps that are different but the dashboards etc as well.

My 600, 64ST and Monterra have all been customised from top to bottom. The 600 though was the one which gave me erratic workings on the map selection only. Strange -
Just like most electronic items, (and occasionally humans!) they all need a hard reset at times!

I imagine he, said guy Olaf, saw the future on the horizon back in 2009 - that of OSM which has about 1.5 million contributors.
Telenav buys OpenStreetMap GPS firm to drive out competition | Satnav News | TechRadar

There again, in 2014 the originator of OSM has "gone in" with Telenav in some form or other; maybe a director?
It would be vaguely interesting to know how that development has influenced the flow of freely provided data into the OSM project.

Wase is owned by Google; it is said that Wase is not adverse to sharing your data with other parties, such as the police potentially.
Here's an example of sharing:
Mayor Walsh Announces Data-Sharing Partnership with Waze Aimed at Improving Traffic in Boston | City of Boston

Look at the Waze permissions required....
Nein danke!

For those will lots of time OpenStreetMap Wiki

---- A targeted description ..

Several different ways of getting Data into OSM ... easiest is the web based one .. needs a reasonable web connection .. actually they all do.

The first issue is .. what are you trying to add to the map? You need to select it so you can tell OSM what it is.

I think tourism=wilderness_hut Tag:tourism=wilderness_hut - OpenStreetMap Wiki "Wilderness hut or backcountry hut is a remote building, with generally a fireplace, intended to provide temporary shelter and sleeping accommodation. "

Having elected what you want to add .. then you will need to register ... email address and a password..
Use http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/27.6965/85.4515

The last two numbers are the GPS location you wan to edit .. North/South first .. North is positive ... the second is East/West .. West is negative. That will save you time panning from one place to another. This brings up a map page - shows you what is there now. I have set the numbers to be close to Kathmandu.

Click on the 'EDIT' tab and you then register.. then add your data. The map then changes to include your data .. yes it is that quick! It will take time for your map to be updated .. depending on how long the particular 'renderer' (map drawer) takes to updata their rendering. Some are days (OSMAnd for instance), some are months (mapsme for instance).

An alternative .... give the data to an OSM mapper and hope they do it for you. You will need to describe what you found .. a photo is good, as well as the location .. datum WGS84? ... and any other thing you think relevant.

Reading into a bit more about the OSM founder, Steve Coast, it is likely that he is an employee of Telenav rather than a director.
Apparently he worked for Microsoft (Bing maps) for about 3 years also.
History of OpenStreetMap - OpenStreetMap Wiki

The whole business of "who owns the maps" continues to morph.

Interesting.
I suggest that you make a similar post to this in the sticky thread about how to download OSM;
thereby, the information may be found more readily in the future when this one has gone the way of most others.
You might also get a wider readership.

Walter made one yonks ago and others have also contributed. It is 'stickied' ... :whistling:

Hmmmmmm.

Something was lost in the writing stage - the idea I was trying to convey is to post this (my earlier inexactitude lies in my use of "this") current information into the sticky thread that describes how to download OSM.
Thereby, those inclined to do so can contribute to the development of OSM as well as download the product.

On the other hand, the growth of OSM contributors is akin to an exponential graph it seems.

Perhaps stupid but I just made an account and I placed a 'note' so that someone else can add a poi. But I would like to add them myself. Issue is, I don't see the edit button. I'm working on an Android device with Chrome as browser.

Wait till I get home? ( I don't have as pc / laptop). Or am I missing something?

Alex

You should try the OSM+VFP it's far far more detailed and up to date than Olaf. Hell it even shows powerlines and camels. lol

You can wait to you get home. Or RTFM ...
there are a number of ways of adding things to OSM .. depends on how you access it. .. assume you go through your OSM home page ... mouse over 'EDIT' top left corner and there are 3 options .. the easiest one is at the top - edit with id .. I don't use that so you'll have to fumble your way reading the manual for it..

Me? I use JOSM .. the most complex one as it can do anything - no restrictions. Sick of learning the simple one to find I need to do some thing it cannot - then learning another program .. only to find it too is restricted.. so these days I go for the most complex one.

Some of the navigation software can add things to OSM too .. Osmand for instance?

Yes, you are right about rtfm. Sorry, but got a bit carried away at the moment. I'm recording everything with my gps right now! I'd love that thing and it's fun to do. But when I'll get home I'll add them all.

And yes, I'm traveling and working on a phone so no hovering mouse for me right now. That's why I can't edit.
But thanks for the help!

Alex

:scooter:There are things you can do on the road. :thumbup1:

There are things that are better done at home. Reliving your tip through photos, notes and gps waypoints is one of them.