Old-ish school navigation
 

Hi,

I am off to Marocco in Spring of next year to travel some of the off road trails amongst other things.

I am usually a map only kind of navigator, but, as I have Chris Scotts book and it gives GPS waypoints for the pistes, I would like to back up my decisions on some known GPS fixes.

I am trying to revive a 16 year old Magellen GPS at the moment, but as it hasn't been switched on for over 10 years, I think it considers itself to be on Mars. (been on the roof for a day and it isn't finding any satelites).

So I might have to buy a GPS. Not wanting to spend anything big, but I would like something very simple that just gives me a position.

I know I can do thsi with my android phone, but I could do with something seperate and wetherproof.

Is there something cheap out there that does deg, mins and secs?

Cheers Dudes

Dave

a used garmin nuvi will be sufficient. You can find them on ebay for cheap. They are durable and have a full suite of features. Their satellite sensitivity is very good. Combine the nuvi with the free Garmin Basecamp software and you will be able to preload all the waypoints into the nuvi.

Dave:

You might as well toss that 1998 GPS in the trash, or confine yourself to using it as a paperweight.

There was a GPS 'Week Number Rollover' in 1999 that required a software update for GPS receivers to continue working past 1999. If that software update has not been applied to your device, it is rather unlikely that you will be able to find and download the update. It is rare for an electronics company to continue to provide support for devices beyond 10 years or so.

Even if your device has the week number update applied, the battery is probably shot. Hence it would be much cheaper and far less troublesome for you to go and buy a used device off of eBay or some similar place. If all you want is display of latitude and longitude, almost any device would serve the purpose.

If you have a smartphone, you might find that it also has a GPS device inside it and can display latitude and longitude for you (it won't need a cell phone connection to do this).

As for formatting of the lat/long (degrees, minutes, seconds, etc.), you can usually configure the formatting on the device to display in the notation you want to use. See post number 4 in this discussion for more information about notation display:

Changing N xxx W xxx into x.xxx,-xx.xxxx ?

Michael

I never knew about the rollover thing in 99 but my Garmin GPS2+, bought in 97 and never updated, worked perfectly until I filled it full of water in a rainstorm about three years ago.

About ten yrs ago I used it for waypoint navigation across various bits of West Africa, something it did very well, but loading the waypoints in was awkward (to say the least - it would have been quicker to get lost and ride around at random trying to find the route). Plus it took quite a while to find the satellites from cold. Anything modern will be much better.

A smartphone (with some means of charging it) will do the job a lot better if you find a suitable Lat/Lon app. My iPad mini nav app usually locates itself in 20-30 secs even if its not been used for weeks whereas the old Garmin could sometimes take hours.

Never followed any of Chris's waypoints in Maroc but a few of them in Mauri were not where they were supposed to be (if that makes sense). Probably a map datum error on my part.

My 2 pence if I may. There are many choices out there including second hand units but at a risk-
For a modern unit which should serve you a long long time, have a look at Garmin's Etrex 10- Part Number: 010-00970-00specs here
A nice simple unit, rugged, waterproof, with twin gps and glonass receiver.
It does not have micro sd card facility, nor maps aside (from a pretty useless basemap), nor any internal memory. For £99 it is a good deal remembering that it very limited in its capability- Only you can decide if these are enough.

But for the little extra- I'd chose the Etrex 20- specs here as it offers micro sd capability so you could load Olaf's free Morocco map on there ( ands others like OSM etc) and 1.7GB internal storage capabilitity for maps/waypoints etc.
Don't underestimate the usefulness of some useable memory and ability to add maps and other data files.

Thanks for all of your advice.

Funnily enough after a day on the roof, the Magellen did manage to get a fix and was tracking 5 satelites. I thought I was in there, but then remembered why I sentenced it to life in the drawn after waiting 10 minutes to get a lock the next time I switched it on.

given the GPS on my smart phone will lock on to a good 14 satelites in less than an minute. I think the old fellow can go back in his draw.

The only thing about using the smarth phone gps is that I don't want the phone out and about getting rattled to death.

I am kind of half sold on Bertrands thoughts about getting something to download maps onto but I still feel it is a little cheating.

Over may years I have learnt to read maps, contours, the sun/light/my watch and part of the journey to me is the map, but I may just have a gps running along in the background. As first said.... Old-ish school navigation!!!:D:palm:

Go for it. There is to me at least a real interest and satisfaction in getting across a landscape using "natural" things like the sun and the earths magnetism. When my skills are lacking the GPS avoids pain. In a city centre the phone let's you get to the bar in time.

Andy

Hi Andy:

Yeah, I agree with you about that satisfaction. My experience has been that the nice warm glow of accomplishment lasts until about 30 seconds after I realize I am lost. :biggrin: At that point, I revert to technology.

(just kidding you)

Michael

All loaded up now!
 

Well, I bought myself a cheap Garmin nuvi 250 for £25 and after a lot of internet learning I have got the OSM Morocco map and the Olaf map loaded on card and internal memory so I can switch between the two.

I've got the Garmin Base camp on my computer and am going to start planning a few routes. I see OSM is great for towns and Olaf is great for the trails but I seem to remember that someone was talking about getting fuel points and accomadation on Olaf's map.

Is that an add on or am I missing something.

I can't beleive how far I have got over the past few weeks thanks to everyones help. I can't say I am proficient, but I'm no longer terrified by Sat Navs!

I keep telling myslef that this is only for back up, but I have soon realsied it is going to take a lot of guess work out of the journey and hopefuly prevent me from a brain overheat whilst working out the pistes. I really do the use of it now.

Cheers Dudes
:D:palm:

Agreed. When all is said and done, GPS navigators are basically 'stress relievers'. We can certainly live without them (the whole world did until about the late 1990s), but life is easier with them.

Enjoy Morocco!

Michael

I'll be interested to read how you get on with it all -- all in due course.

I've been along this road, figuratively speaking, with an old Nuvi 205W.
:innocent:

Quite a few people prefer mapsource to basecamp, even though the latter is newer.
There are lots of posts about such things elsewhere in here.

:0)
 

All you really need is a magnetic personality! and you'll be fine-
Just look how far the Vikings got!

Olaf doesn't have an add on for POIs but it does have some already loaded. Use it with the OSM and you'll have everything you'll need for Morocco, I've just got back using the same combination

Osm is getting better with pistes and tracks and where it has them they are much more accurate than Olaf which is getting old

If you need any advice on Morocco , routes or otherwise ask away

It doesn't look like you can get mapsource any more from garmin and even if you can, I've just spent 2 hours reading the insturctions for basecamp, so basecamp it is!!! I can allow computer things only so much of my time:nono:

It seem useful enough and will do the job. I really don't want to be tied to itienry or the route, and I am concerned that I will tie myself to a route I am plotting now which I know is so wrong. I am going to need a little more time to work out how to change tracks on the hoof.

20 years ago I spent 3 months going coast to coast and back in N America taking what looked like the most interesting road at many a junction. It was only at night I would get out the road atlas to get going in the right direction.

Now I have time constraints, so I need a bit of a better idea of where I am and how I can get back. So htere is another challenge, but so far so good, we're getting there on my miserley budget.

I'm hoping Grant will give me space to write a blog when I go in April next year. Not that I am going anywhere where no-one else has ever gone but because I like to write about travelling and things just seem to happen to me. my last blog to Sarajevo was really enjoyable to write and was full of 'events'!

I'll keep you informed on the joys of the nuvi 250!

go easy dudes
:D:palm:

I look forward to hearing of your experiences.
And genuinely, I have walked this road, a little ahead of you and I am with you in everything you have said in your last post.:thumbup1:

Apart from that bit about Mapsource: somewhere I found advice about how to get a workable copy of it - the most recent versions issued right up until Garmin sacked it were not good apparently.
I may have found that in here, I just can't remember but no worries, you have base camp.

Go easy!

Always good to hear from footprints in the sand.
:D:palm:

OK, so a few months on, and I have refined plans using Basecamp, nicely crossed between Olaf and OSM to make sure my journeys can be easily changed from off road accuracy to in town essentail directions.

I have seperated little trips all around Maroc into routes.

I thne tried to uplaod them to my 250 garmin, THey don't seem to be recognised. then I read the general internet messages and seemed to gleen that the 250 will only take points, not routes.

I dont really wnat to be bothering with trying to string together points. Does anyone know how to upload a route to a 250 or do I have to buy something else which will do this, and what is its name?

Cheers Dudes

Dave:D

Dudes.....dudes???? seriously Dave? that is soooooooo passé!! Right, moving right along!

Why not join the Olaf and OSM maps for the best of both worlds? or others too!
It sounds like you have a Nuvi and that one is an entry level satnav with a max 500 waypoints available- that includes those you make and the route ones which is very restrictive.
You could convert your existing (non route waypoints) to (*) a separate custom POI file to release some space and allow you to use the full 500 just for routes - but ask yourself- do you really need a route? a better idea maybe would be to use the waypoints for critical turns and do the (*) above.

BTW- Basecamp also exists in 2D only version now-
Mapsource is still downloadable but it is worth noting that routes calculated in Mapsource contain inherent errors. Those in Basecamp get calculated depending on which profile you have chosen/set. You have set the Profiles haven't you?

New sat nav for Xmas maybe? but if this not be desired...then this old school method is still the most energy efficient and waterproof too. Enlarging the image will give you the answer as to an excellent compass which works worldwide as it has an adjustable declination correction. Now where did I put my circular slide rule...

Here is a link to a tutorial posted on the LD Riders website that provides some good information explaining how to use Basecamp for planning rides.

The documents consist of two PowerPoint presentations that were made at a LD Riders conference. Although these documents alone are not sufficient to get someone from "zero to 100" using Basecamp, they do provide some excellent insight into how to use the application for planning motorcycle routes.

It is worth noting that the newer Garmin hardware, such as the Zumo 590, no longer works at all with MapSource, so, we all might as well become proficient with Basecamp whether we like it or not.

Here's the link: Basecamp FAQ - LDRiders

Michael

Sorry Sir, passe is what always comes easiest to me!

The lack of being able to load routes into my 250 nuvi is a bit of a pain, I did not realise this until I tried and have spent some time getting my routes sorted.

I think 500 way points would be fine for me, but don't really want to sacrifice the routes. 2 months ago I was just going to do my trip off maps, but now I have been sold on the GPS things, but the overiding factor is that it has to be cheap.

I don't suppose anyone may know of the cheapest garmin sat nav that will transfer a route off Basecamp. Not bothered about motorcycle specific either.

Mr Pan European, those notes are really good. they have helped me no end to speed up my comically rubbish way of putting in my routes.

Cheers (I was going to say something passe!)doh

Dave

Hi Dave:

Garmin has greatly increased the number of different automotive GPS devices that they offer. Years ago, there were perhaps 2 or 3 different models at any one time... today, there can easily be 25 or more different "current" models.

The significant differences between the models for us motorcyclists are not the same as the obvious differences (screen size, for example). Many of the inexpensive models do not support route uploading, as you have discovered. Some models that support Bluetooth audio will permit pairing to a phone (for handsfree phone use in a car), but will not support pairing to a Bluetooth headset (essential if you want to hear audio prompts in your helmet). It is now rare to find any audio in/out jacks on a general market GPS.

Some riders have discovered that they can purchase a reasonably inexpensive Garmin device that is aimed at the automotive market and have it serve them well on a moto, albeit wrapped in a zip-lock bag if it is raining out. But, you have to be very careful in your research if you want to use an automotive model on a moto. Here are some suggestions to guide you. This is not a comprehensive list.

1) Get a device that offers 'Lifetime Maps' - in other words, free map updates in the future. These devices normally have the letters 'LM' appended to the model number. Otherwise, you will be spending another US$ 100 or so for a lifetime map subscription.

2) If you plan to do a lot of riding in big cities, consider getting one that supports traffic reports. The quality of the traffic reports varies by country... typically excellent in the German-speaking countries, typically useless in North America. Some countries in Europe require a paid subscription for traffic - do your homework.

3) If traffic cameras (radar cameras) are a problem in your country, be sure to get a device that supports upload of radar camera data. Not all the low-end devices do. This feature is commonly referred to as "Custom POI" (point of interest).

4) As you have already found out, not all the automotive navigators support route uploads. Typically, the least expensive 50% of whatever current product is offered will not support route uploads.

5) Provided that the device supports route uploads, the number of waypoints that it will hold is not significant.

6) If you want to hear audio prompts in your helmet, you will need a device that supports Bluetooth. But, not all the Bluetooth devices will support an external headset... some only support pairing with a phone for phone conversations. Bring along a Bluetooth headset when you go shopping (doesn't have to be a motorcycle one, just find some goof who is walking around with one of those things stuck in their ear and borrow it for a moment) and make sure the device supports providing navigation prompts to a paired headset before you buy it.

7) Some devices support lane guidance (telling you what lane to get into ahead of time), some don't. If you will be riding a long way from home, in unfamiliar turf, that feature can be very useful.

Michael

Michael , a slight correction on your point (5) if I may.There is a limit depending on which unit you have. See below for the Nuvi250
I don't know if Dave noticed that I attached the pdf user manual file in my previous post to help. ( #18)

Dave, Dude!!!! (did you have a slight sense of humour failure amigo?? !!) :wink2: I hope I did not upset you- apology if I did-
To add value to your Michaels' post and to help you to keep costs down:
- Keep your Nuvi 250
- Make as many routes as you like BUT with no more than 200 waypoints each.
That is your units limitation and I find it best to always go a bit less than maximum.
- buy an external memory card or two- it is always a good idea to have a copy of important data and cards can fail.
- Create a folder called Garmin and a sub folder to that called GPX on these cards.
- From Basecamp, save your routes file or files in .gpx format and put these on your external memory card.
Your limit is the maximum card size your Nuvi is able to read. Do your homework.
Store as much as you can on the external memory card.

Name your routes with something that is easy to understand. for example
'London Victoria-TO-Dover'

For Waypoints:
You have choices- IF you wish to have different icons to display on your screen for different categories (pictures are better than text)- it means more work and the creation of .csv and .bmp format files ( see below how to)

OR, if icons are not important to you, then just save the file in .gpx format as well

Create as many as you like in your planning from home, save that file in .gdb3 format then convert it to a .csv file.
This file will need a corresponding file which is a .bmp file ( with the same name) and you use POI loader to send it to your unit.
The .bmp or bitmap is the icon which will display on your screen.
If you have different types of waypoints then each will need a separate file sith its matching icon if you want different icons to display.
All the files MUST be grouped in one single folder for upload to Nuvi using poi loader. Each upload erases the previous data on the satnav. Fir good practice, I use the 'remove' option in POI Loader before each fresh upload.


Doing the above will not use any of the units 500 maximum waypoints which you can then create and delete / or edit via the Nuvi on your travels logging points you wish to keep. A useful tip is to creaste one called 001 for where you park your bike- deleting as you move off again- it prevents you forgetting where you are staying/or have left your bike... don't ask how I know that doh

To give you a comparison, my unit can hold 4000 waypoints in its memory, but thanks to POI Loader, I have over a quarter of a million of them in my unit.

The gpx format files and the .csv ones cannot be edited on the unit and require a computer .
Total expenditure = 2 or more memory cards only
Investment in learning 'how to' time , lots!

Free software needed:

• Garmin Basecamp
• Garmin POI Loader
• GPS Babel for file conversions

Windows 'Paint' or the like photo editing software to make icons
Have fun

Bertrand, Dude, no sense of humour failure,

just a different sense of humour that maybe is hard to convey over the written word - no need to apologise, no offense taken! bier
Thanks for all the info, It may take me some time to understand it as I have that dangerous, just a little bit of knowledge! :helpsmilie:

Dave

:thumbup1:

If its any consolation, my Monterra has just glitched and requires a master reset (again grrrrr!doh)- A few more hours to spend resetting profiles, downloading apps and reinstalling stuff-
Great unit (when it doesn't throw a wobbly!)

now where is that master reset list...

Too often the master reset has been something a little heavy handed with me, but so far I am remaining patient!

Well I am trying to do the first method you suggest using a little local route with a few waypoints just to see how it will work. I can easily save the file onto the card in the right folder as a .gpx format, and it all shows use using the windows file explorer.

Once I disconect the Garmin from the computer, I cannot find any refrence to this route in any of the Garmin's menus (any idea where they might be expected?). When I connect it back to the computer, I can find no trace of the route I have downloaded.

I am sure to be doing something very simple but terribly wrong. If you have an idea I would love to hear it.

Thanks Dave

You must have (or make) a folder called garmin on the memory card.
You must keep any additional maps in that folder.
GPX files must be kept in a folder called gpx and this folder is a sub folder to the garmin one.
Assuming your memory card is, for example, called E:
then the paths must be
E:\ garmin
E:\garmin\gpx

Once you have set it all up and done the file transfer either via BC or windows explorer, most garmin units need to be turned off then on again to find the new files.

The directory structure on the card is as you siad although my GPX folder was in capitals (GPX) rather than gpx, and the garmin folder had a cap G. I will correct this and have another go when I have a minute.

Thanks for the help

Well, I have tried different cards, tried to load my test route up to the main memory, tried to load it on direct from windows explorer and also through Base camp and still can't get it to show up.

Once loaded on, I can find the route through windows explorer with no problems. Once I disconnect the GPS from the computer (I switch it off and back on again but can't seem to find thr route through the GPS's interface.

If I reconnect it to the computer and go onto the card from windows explorer, the route has disappeared from the gpx file!

Not quite sure waht is going on there. Any clues?

Cheers Dudes:D

I can still see those footprints and they are heading down the same route that I took with my 205W:-
https://forums.garmin.com/showthread...e-and-Nuvi250w
:funmeterno:

Unfortunately I think you are right! I just haven't got the money to spend on something too fancy! :blushing:

Fear not, all is not lost.
Try a skim read of this thread which explores the use of GPS in practical situations, even though the thread lives in a different bit of the HUBB and went off topic quite quickly from the original post.
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...g-city-72879-2
It pretty much describes how I have used my Nuvi 205 these past few years, partly because I soon encountered the buit-in limitations of my Garmin but mainly because I don't wish to rely solely on any form of GPS.

If you like, take a look also at the discussions elsewhere in here about using smart phone apps - it may be that you aren't carrying one of the latter, in which case continue with plan A.

Thanks for the link, but I'm not too sure if it is the right one as I can't see any posts from you.

Saying that, I may just be teched out!!!:confused1:

Ahem....cough cough......
 

Just to revive a previous suggestion...:innocent:

Yeah, in many ways you are right. For me it would be the best thing for just bumping down the pistes because it won't try to adopt motorcyclistic assumptions as to where I want to go (good new word there).

I kind of got attracted to the motoring sat navs because it would be very useful in towns and the 3d view is very useful here. Also for when I get home and need the odd postcode directions.

So very much not sure what to do now. I may in the end, just forget trying to put routes on my current sat nav and just use it to get Long Lat readings going off the good old map and compass. At least I can use it when not on the piste.

It's been an education! Thanks all for your help:clap:

That's the link that I wanted to draw to your attention: I don't post if I see no need to contribute.

The Nuvi works for me at present and I don't get overwhelmed with the techie stuff - it depends on the extent you want your hand to be held by such technological marvels.:nono:

I'm certainly getting it now, It is a useful link. I will keep on with the Nuvi. It will be useful in the cities for finding places and for the pistes, I will not expect that I can install turn by turn directions as if I was heading down the motorway! I'll stick a few key waypoints in and see how I get on.

I think that was what I was hoping to do, but as you say, that may be a little bit too loose a grip on reality. Well, for the money I have got to spend on GPSs it is!

Much as I have tried to "reform" myself and adopt greater use of GPS tools, I have found that I can't resist studying a map while lying about in a tent or taking a few beers with others.