To GPS or not to GPS.....
 

I have a feeling that some people prefer not to use them as much as others. I think there might be a little more, should i say, "romance" to the trip without one, however, i could be wrong. Although great technology, i feel that there may be some virtue to not knowing exactly, to almost a pinpoint, where you are. From my limited experience traveling by bike, It seems i always stumble across the things i need, which always seems to come in the form of other people's skills and assets, compassion, interest, humanity, etc... However, i'm sure they can be VERY VERY Useful. Indeed, they efficiently and effectively connect you to people and businesses and give you direction to these places. However.....?

Wifi, laptops, GPS, Cellphones, etc...., it makes me sometimes feel like a Cyborg reliant on technological externals - in this way it makes me feel less secure in just myself. Like i have to have all this technology to go on a trip. I think, when do we stop integrating technology into our lives? Always knowing exactly where you are and always able to be contacted or contact in the modern human epoch seems to actually fragment us from our immediate surroundings and context. Doesn't this "excessive" connection some how take away from the connection we have with the people we meet along the way and ourselves? No longer do we happen upon things, but rather we are fully aware, and in control of what's to come - or so we think. Although gaining "security" doesn't this somehow take away from the Journey /travels/adventure we have, by making us more reliant on some service or product outside ourselves to help us through the journey /trip/adventure. However, Maybe this technological, trans-human "advantage" adds depth and more meaning to the trip in the modern era? Maybe it just doesn't matter and i'm a total tripper!!? lol. However, i think it would be cool to have an open discussion on this. Dunno, Maybe it's old discourse?

Personally, I've never used one. They haven't become common in my part of Canada yet. I don't even know how much one would cost and whether or not it would work on a Journey through central and south america. I don't even know whether or not there are service charges.....but of course there are. And of course i wonder if i need one, but really, i ask myself, why do i feel i NEED one? Cause i do feel i need one. And, i think to myself, the only reason i feel i need one is because it would make my trip feel safer, and make life easier. Indeed, there is always an emotion or feeling that inspires consumers to buy things. I imagine myself with a GPS, driving through the unknown, and it makes me feel, simply...Safer and smarter....simply more responsible. Why? Because it makes the great unknown not so unknown. Hmmmmm? Adventure i ask myself? Maybe The security and convieniece i feel it would give me is simply an illusion/delusion and the money spent is a waste of resource, yet i could be wrong. Maybe a general direction, a bike, and myself is all i need?

Any ideas, experiences, philosophies, on this would be interesting to me. Feel free to pontificate and argue. Please, Feel free to criticize if desired. Feel free to call me a nut job if wanted - it wouldn't be the first time. :0) I would like to hear all opinions and thoughts. I'm actually hoping to open a can of worms here, because i feel it is a fundamental difference in approach to travel.

I know you can't change the times, but you can make a choice. To GPS or not to GPS? That is the question. Any answers? :0)

Regards,
Wrong way, aka Troy

Technology
 

Hi Troy. I have travelled a lot in the past using "old" technology - sextant and tables (must admit to using calculator) to navigate at sea, then progressed to chart plotters and GPS. In 4x4 found GPS invaluable, as could not carry all the maps I needed, to find old unmarked tracks. I do a lot of fossicking for gemstones and gold, and add my own calibrated maps to GPS with moving map display - makes finding own abandoned mines and interesting geological areas/spots relatively easy. Now that I am on my bike, having similar issues to you, even though I only travel in Australia at present.

Due to my age and health issues, I have succumbed to hand brakes (partner) suggestion of using SPOT tracker, as I often travel alone, so that at regular intervals she knows that I am OK and where I am, and, that if I do need assistance, I can get it. My 4x4 GPS (Hema 4.3 mapper) is not waterproof or shock proofed enough to use on bike, so back to paper maps. On last trip down Oodnadatta track, paper maps were fine, and appreciated SPOT tracker after a minor off broke 3 ribs.

So I'll be continuing to use the SPOT as my safety link.

beer

Buy a GPS at this stage of your trip and you'll spend all your time deeply irritated by the learning curve. Unless, that is, you're merely posturing about your own ignorance. You want to make your trip more complicated than it already is? Look at how frustrating mechanical stuff on a simple, old-technology motorbike can get.

In the end, it doesn't matter. Take maps, take GPS, take nothing and leach off your fellow riders. But: if you really crave information and the sharing of perspectives, consider doing a search on this site. You are far from the first to start such a thread.

If "can of worms" is your objective, count me out.

enjoy,

Mark

No GPS for me... paper maps and asking directions especially asking directions which brings me into contact with the locals. Does the gps help you learn the language also?

In my sailboat I like looking at charts, holding a compass and binoculars. keeps my mind sharp looking for landmarks.
Now having said that they are kind of neat!

thanx
 

Ozhank, you have increased my understanding of the practical uses of gps. they are more than just a map with your spot on it. It's a tool to be used for various activities that make you more effective and efficient. what you do for hobby, profession or both sounds quite interesting and it is not something I've ever personal experienced. and in this case GPS seems invaluable, however, it doesn't seem that your objective in your activities is adventure. however i'm sure it is quite adventurous.

I suppose i was directing my thoughts at "adventure riding". And examining, in response to my desire for a GPS, the premise that GPS might take the adventure out of the ride. Indeed, if adventure is basically going into the unknown and GPS makes the unknown known, than GPS might take some of the adventure out of adventure riding.

I think this is a valid premise and argument. however, what i think Markhauf is eloquently suggesting to me is where does this argument stop. You could say this about all navigational technology that you use when "adventure touring": maps, compasses, phones, laptops, etc. Shit, if i want real adventure, i could try and close my eyes and see how long i can navigate my trip.

However, i can't help but feel that GPS is excessive. Adversely, maybe GPS allows you to "control" your adventure better....but this again sounds paradoxical.

Ozhank, In regards to personal security i feel they must be invaluable in the ways you suggested. And of course since the technology is there than it's almost expected one uses it - especially for the peace of mind of loved ones. This seems important in the modern era. As it goes, since loved ones can know where and how you are, than they should be able to.

Markhauf, again puts things in a broader perspective. I will do a search....and learn to do one.???? I must admit that i used "opening a can or worms" phase lightly. It is a silly thing to do purposely. I guess i was questioning my own motives for getting phylosophical about technology and it's effect on what i feel adventure constitutes. I take that back.

i Guess this is just my way of making a decision on whether or not to GPS. for now, for me, my conclusion is all i need is lots of maps....since i'm not GPS savy.

Good points calvin.

Regardless, i feel it is an interesting subject and the input given has already helped me make my decision.

thanx for the enlightened imput.


Wrong way Troy

buy or borrow
 

"Personally, I've never used one......" I think that quote answers your GPS question. If you had used one then you'd know the answer.

Buy one or borrow one, that is one of the questions out there that you need to answer yourself!

good quote
 

geoffshing

good quote.

'Security is a product of one's own imagination, it does not exist in nature as a rule, life is either a daring adventure or nothing.'

enough said. Indeed, that quote, very true quote, helped me make a decision on incorporating that technology into the trip i'm on now. For my reasons i feel a GPS will work against my objectives. A day ago i was going to buy a gps for the reason of feeling more secure in my travels.

The imagination is a powerful thing as your chosen quote suggests, indeed, one can extrapolate and make decisions without practical experience.

Thanx
Wrong way Troy

I can see both sides.

I have a SatNav and, in towns / unfamiliar centres, it's a Godsend! However, I'm coming more round to the idea that a map and getting lost is more adventurous and opens you up far more to more interesting experiences:palm:.

Have fun on your rides . . .

To take a GPS or not was a question I pondered for a long time.

In the end I decided to take one for Geocaching, Geotagging photos, and so at some point I can use the waypoints and overlay my track on a map so I have something to look back on in the future.

I took a GPS and a cut-out from a world map that went from the UK to Mongolia (my route).

I never used th GPS once, it just stayed in my panniers. The map lived in my pocket and caused a lot of amusement for the locals everytime I stopped for directions an dgot it out.

I think that if I had been travelling with others not getting lost might have been more important but as it was everytime I got seriously lost it just added to the fun!

Hmmm
 

Yes it is an oft asked subject and there are many threads on this site about this very same subject. Having said that it is an entertaining one and worth repeating every now and then! My own sense of direction is so bad it is legendary and those who have ridden alongside me know I will get lost at some point:helpsmilie:

The thing about being lost is that even with a map if you dont know where you are and the map does not have a big X on it saying "you are here" then what is the point of having one? I also find that trying to read read them at anything over 30 MPH tends to cause them to blow everywhere, especially those big Michelin buggers:rofl:

I wont leave home with out my GPS and a mobile phone to call for help should I need it, but that is just me. If you can get by without the expense of them then go for it and use maps, they have worked for centuries for the likes of Magellan, Drake etc.

IMHO how some people interface with GPS is odd. I like them. I now own one that talks. My wife thinks the GPS is some sort of electronic overmistress to be obeyed at the risk of falling off the end of the world. We have an intercom and I need to switch the GPS to a different accent as the conversation goes:

Female voice "Take the next turn on the left"
Me "No, this road is fun"
Female voice "Where possible make a U-turn"
Me "I told you..."
Female voice "Did she say to turn left?"
Female voice "where possible make a U-turn"
Me "**** off"
Female voice "Did you just tell me to **** off?"

:(:nono::(:rofl:

Seriously, just because the GPS says to turn, if the road ahead looks fun ride that way. Treat it like the tool it is, it'll sort itself out. I'm sure map users have just ridden until they ran out of time, then used the map to find out where the heck they are? If you want to talk to people ask about the road ahead, no need to be lost.

Maybe it's the voices that make people think GPS changes anything? It's just an automated map, use it how you like. If you feel the need to obey electronic voices, maybe you should avoid them :helpsmilie:. Maybe I need a GPS voice recording that says "buy the bloke on the outfit more beer in two minutes"... "now buy the beer" :rofl:

Andy

funny guys
 

Maybe getting lost is the Point. People are always telling me to get lost. If i bought a GPS i wouldn't be honoring there advice.

I didn't know that GPS bitched, nagged, and scolded. I'm sure it's got a button to turn that off.................Wouldn't that be nice?

People who have a tendency to get lost probably are just driving from one shiny object to the next. oooo shiny:scooter:.....ooooo shiny :scooter:, etc... Or destracted by thoughts of whether or not to get a GPS. Hmmmmm? Sounds like me.

Ipod touch!!!
 

I realized that i just need to buy something new.

With an ipod touch i can have tunes and maps. You can download maps of google maps and use them as you go....... offline. And they are fricken small and shiny. :thumbup1:

Markaf makes a very valid point.
I bought one last year and returned it.. In a way I was a casualty of advertising. In my simple way I thought all I had to do was type in the name of where I wanted to go and it could guide me there avoiding the peages. Sadly of the first four places I tried to go, I could not convince the machine that three of them existed. I had over estimated its and my capabilities. In a 3500 mile trip I took two wrong turnings and spent an hour trying to find the right road out of Merano. Once (in Gorltz) I had to ask where there was a guest house and was kindly guided there by a local.
They can be useful but might not always have the answer you want. The find a local garage/guest house etc, feature should work as it will be guiding you to somewhere it knows. It does seem to know most large cities which is where i need help the most and which I tend to avoid. Only twice was i in need of help, Merano and Gorlitz.
I do tend to navigate now by following road signs, I used to use road numbers but they change so often it is now unreliable.
As soon as I find one with 2011 maps preloaded I will buy another if I can get one with a headphone jack. I will have a much smaller expectation of its capabilities so it will work for me.

I've never used a gps trekking before, always map and compass.

Although: I do have a gps, a highly accurate 'WAAS' enabled gps;
GPSmap60
It has a blessing in disguise: Very poor memory & small monochrome screen (totally unreadable whilst riding), you can load topography but a very limited amount, as I attempted to load the whole of Dartmoor National Park, it failed, you get a basic outline of the world, with the topography for your back garden.

The reason why this is a blessing? Well, it removes the temptation to rely on it for the never ending torrent of 'info' the more expensive gps' deliver, and so it becomes a backup, if i've hopelessly turned myself around in featureless terrain it can be used to retrieve a long&lat to plot on paper and it's game on, sling back in the bag!

They can do that, BUT, they need the right maps loaded and the right settings and .....

The last conference I attended related to emergency vehicles was interesting. They were fitting GPS because local "yoof" often think it's funny to send the police the wrong way or will simply want to pick a fight with anyone in uniform while others want paying for directions or send everyone past their brothers shop. Then there are the people who live in the village but work fifty miles away and couldn't actualy find the pub themselves, but won't admit it, old people who want to chat for an hour...etc etc. Then there were the local councils who assumed everyone had GPS, so didn't maintain road signs and companies who don't put signs up to reduce the number of cold callers. All in all, the world is becoming set up for GPS at the expense of other ways of navigating. I'd hate to try and find anything in a UK city without GPS these days.

In the desert I loved playing with the sun compass etc., but give me a nasty sand storm and a vehicle short of fuel and a nice simple GPS that doesn't require me to be 10m away would be a real bonus.

One I do find useful is Google maps. Get basically a satelitte photo to help you in the last few miles. Up to you if you memorise it, print it or get it sent to a PDA thingy.

Andy

I think it all depends on where you want to travel, no we never had one when we was living in Australia, but after 5 months in Indonesia where if you stopped and asked 5 locals for directions you would end up with same amount of different answers, so for us it was money well spent.

Now we wouldn't be without it.

Ann

I agree with the google maps... But the whole idea of the gps is to be able to navigate without paper maps.

Regarding the gps though, I had the best maps that were available. Sadly They have misspelt my home so no one can find it, including any delivery driver using a garmin. Via michelin and Tom tom are fine. Unfortunately I now cannot use Amazon.com because their delivery service uses Garmin GPS :( The only way I could use it was to navigate to somewhere near where I wanted to be and guess that last 10 miles or so. Exactly what I didn't want because I can easily find somewhere near just by looking at signposts. It is the last few miles to teh door I cant do easily for places I havent been before. The other way that worked was to input the waypoint. Sadly I couldn't find the waypoints very often until after I had visited the place.

In the UK post codes worked well, but not so anywhere else. My post code is a 10 mile radius circle. and a Garmin will drop you 13 miles away if you input my address. Just imagine if they had coded London as Losdon. a small mistake but virtually unfathonable.

Garmin is American. In North London it used to say:

"Turn North onto the Great North Road"

No one has called the A-1 the "Great North Road" since the Romans went home, UK road signs use place names and road numbers and the junction is a roundabout with five lanes and traffic lights.

The correct instructions would be something like "get in the third lane to take the fourth exit, following A-1 Welwyn/St. Albans".

In the USA "Highway 1 North" is on the signs, but that's not much use anywhere else.

Andy

Last time I heard of the Great north road was in the "Leather boys" film :) Great to see the old bikes in action.

Yes it used to irritate me when my Garmin pisspronounced names of streets. Who cares if the road is general de gaulle avenue or general le Clerc boulevard ?
If you dont Know the town, street names are meaningless. If you do know the town you dont need the gps.

,

This is not how my Garmin (550 Zumo) works, it'll say, turn left or turn right onto the (named) road, or if a roundabout 'take the 1st, or 2nd, or 3rd exit etc. it never gives a compass type direction...

A sat-nav is more important in a busy town than out in the wilds where you can stop easily and look at the map, assuming you know where you are. I have a Garmin Map60 and would not be without it now. It does not talk to me, so I can ignore it if I wish.

My reason for buying it was that I had become too old to be able to read a map on my tankbag without reading glasses. The GPS map is hard to read on the handlebars too, but the little pop up pictures of a junction are easy. Or, without turn by turn instructions it points you in the right direction and you choose which road you take.

You still need maps to see the big picture, and must look for signs as the maps become out of date as the roads change.

Sounds confusing
 

However, once over the learning curve, and its properly integrated into navigating for purpose, it can save tons of time and resources - both for the individual and society. When you think about it, it's an amazing amount of technology and infrastructure that runs that little box.

It could help with some inconvenient situations.

I was once asked by a leather clad harley type biker with the loud exhaust what my GPS was and what it was for. I had initially thought he was just ignorant...but his simple question was sort of an ephinay for me. I always knew where I was, how far I was from a place and how soon I would get there. There was no doubt. The next day I pulled it off and have not used it since while actively riding. It is fun heading in the general direction you wish to go and seeing how out of the way you go. The ride, even on familiar roads is an adventure again.
When my wife and I travel, we have a GPSMAP 60CSX and a Spot, they both live in the tank bag with the maps. If I want to know where I am and can't determine by landmarks, I'll pull out the gps. Occasionally for fun, I'll cross ref the Lat and Long.

If I want to get to place X without any messing about, I'll use the SatNav. Especially if it's in a town that I don't know, but only if it works of course.

However, if I'm in adventure mode and I'm exploring that's a different matter, so why bother... its all about getting lost.

Hi

I use a tomtom rider edition 1 but with no voice, I use it as a rough guide and its a godsend when looking for campsites.

I still and always will take paper maps for rough planning on the next days leg of the route.

Cheers
Geordie

a different perspective
 

Just putting it out there but no one has mentioned the use and benefit of paper maps for planning purposes. I find a big scale paper map say 1:1,000,000 or 2,000,000 execllent for laying out on the ground and looking at the route options. You just can't get the feel for terrain, density of population and touch and feel of a country with a GPS, plus you can't the same way with a GPS over a few beers in hand with fellow travellers.

I know GPS's and have used them extensively but choose not to because I like paper. I also like getting lost and discovering uncharted (in my mind's eye) territory. Antiquidated thought, yes but never the less I spend less time charging GPS batteries and more time drinking beer with paper maps, so I don't think it'll change anytime soon.

Here's to meeting fellow travellers on the road and sharing a few beerbeer's with them over a well worn map.

I think some confuse SatNav with GPS. SatNav being the dumbed down way to get from A to B using guiding commands.

GPS is more the aviation and marine model.
The point you wish to get to is only designated by a waypoint on your basemap, none routable map or map with guidance turned off.

I used a combination of GPS with the Smelly Biker worldmap, paper maps, for the big picture and local knowledge to confirm the former methods.

I think they are a great tool and its good to overlay your track (breadcrumb trail), over a map after the trip.

John

I agree with you Redboots but this is the fault of marketing idiots not understanding the technology so some markets like in Australia refer only to GPS for all devices that use GPS for navigation or not whereas in the UK you will hear SatNav meaning Satellite Navigation using GPS.

It's also worth noting that with most SatNav devices Tomtom, Garmin, or other they will provide you with GPS coordinates so you can obtain your exact position and use it as reference on other maps... but that's another discussion.

I cycled out of London a year or so ago. before it becomes the A1, it is actually named as the Great North Road on a few street signs in north London.

I think your definition of GPS and SatNav are wrong and I follow wikipedia on this one: Global navigation satellite system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


A GPS is a GPS even if it has maps or not, like a cellphone is a cellphone even if it has web-access or not.

I only refer to the use as perceived by many... Trying to make an analogydoh
Both terms apply to the one device which perform the same function, namely to triangulate your position in lat/long/height. Nothing else.

The rest is just software, supplied by the maker, in the device to relate your position to another position on a known grid. The (street) maps and direction commands are just a fancy way to display that to the user.

John

IM glad you called him out:) SatNav being the marketing name someone made up as GPS has been GPS since its creation.

I did use maps for central america, but for south, I literally could not be bothered tracking down a decent maps, and just started writing down town names on a notepad with a couple lines. Didn´t ever get lost, I actually talked more to locals and probably prevented myself from being over confident reading maps on the road and taking wrong turns.