Which sat nav?
 

Sat nav novice here and rubbish at tech stuff. Which is easiest for me to set up and use, montana, garmin 660, tom tom rider? Don't want endless hours downloading and trying to sort complicated set up problems. Thanks

To get a better concensus, could you please provide a bit more info?
A lot depends on:
- what do you want it for? aka postcode to postcode or a real need for accuracy/reliability and so on
- your budget
- your willingness to learn navigation!

I have been using Garmin units on foot, in boats, 4x4's, in aircraft, on bikes and even on a camel for a short while! for more years than I can almost remember and recommend them. It is the most reliable brand in terms of quality of build and service back up-
They offer a very wide variety of units to suit many needs-
I am currently using the Montana 600 and the 62S

I'm not far from you so if you need help, drop me a pm

Thanks Bertrand, I want it for touring in Europe. I'm an excellent map reader, but terrible with IT. All help very gratefully appreciated.

For touring about within western Europe, set up instantly without all the interfacing with OSM or whatever, I have found my second hand, ancient Tom Tom to be more user friendly than my second hand Nuvi Garmin. It is also faster at doing its work.

However, I was brought up on map reading so all this electronic gadgetry doesn't really do much for me - sometimes I use a gps to find a place in a new-to-me city/town/other location over the last leg of the journey - maybe the last few 100 metres, or thereabouts.

Same problems
 

Hi folks, new to the community,have found a lot of info on nav from chris Scott and his books. We are visiting Morocco and would like to use cheap car based garmin and load it up with Olaf system but am worried about glitchy interface problems were not bothered by voice commands and ithe ability to see when your chewing gum will expire. Can you guys confirm that phone systems are not up to the job(pity) we want to reduce the theft risk as well. We have ordered the Michelin map and I will laminate it. All help appreciated. We are in south London so maybe an educational visit would be possible if any of you guys are near?

It depends on which cheap car based system you ate using. Most are not weather proof, and probably not very vibration resistant.

I'm using a Streetpilot 2820, which is weatherproof and which I've loaded non-Garmin maps to for touring Asia. But they were in the Garmin format.

That's an older model, but they often come up on eBay. The sticker with any car based GPS is finding a suitable mount that can take the pounding a bike gives especially on rough roads.

I've had mine from new, so the mounting hardware was easy to find.

The system has most mod cons including bluetooth, voice output and so on.

I've used a phone to navigate before, but that was an older Windows phone running Garmin software loaded on a card. If you go this route you will need a waterproof and vibration isolating housing, as well as sorting out the software / map choices.

Still probably the best unit I've tried is the Montana series. Expensive, but rugged, multipurpose, two battery options, map flexibility, easy to use, decent-sized screen and a lot more.
You can use it for marine/boating, outdoor and automotive purposes.

You may save a few hundred going with a cheap car unit, but once you sort out the mounting system and potential replacement due to rugged conditions, the savings may not be as much as expected.
And most of them are limited to vehicle use.


Sent from my chinaphone excuse the spelling

Your header of "same problem" is not exactly the case; the OP refers to western Europe as the geographic area of interest.
You will be aware that Chris S has used more than one Garmin in Morocco, including a Nuvi.

For your general statement about phone systems, there are earlier threads in here about that subject - both the hardware and software considerations - such as this one:-
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...armin-et-63191
Opinions vary, but there are plenty of people navigating by use of smartphones,

:welcome: to the HUBB with your first post by the way.

???
My 2 GPS work anywhere, no matter what vehicle they are mounted upon.
Maybe this refers to the power supply?

When seriously playing around with navigation Garmin (OSM) is always your best friend. (Be prepared to learn - a lot.)
When driving around europe on tarmac, TomTom will get you there every time. Simple, easy, reliable.

Correct. My 2820 has no battery, like most car GPS units . The Montana comes with a proprietary rechargeable, and AAs can also be used.

If you swap vehicle, go hiking, catch public transport or whatever, a battery option is very nice to have.


Sent from my Android chinaphone, please excuse the spelling

Sat nav or phone.Or paper maps
 

Thanks to you guys for your advice and options. The bike specific option would be nice but I don't feel too confident buying stuff second hand that I know little about. I think I will take a punt on a cheapie and get a waterproof case for it. The mounting system I can metalwork up in workshop and if it dies within three months then so be it. I navigate a boat happily off charts and hand compass so have some idea how to get home. I will keep hunting around. Do any of you know if the Samsung galaxy is any good as a nav device as my phone is due for renewal. May the Hubb be with you!
Jon.

More smartphone vs sat nav gps and maps
 

Just looked on the link above and found it all very interesting. I'm still finding my way around the site and a lot of the abbreviations are confusing. But we press on relentless.

Hi, My first posting on HU! Been meaning to do it for a long time!!

I gave up on my Zumo 550 after three years of problems with navigating glitches and memory problems. Garmin were pretty helpful but I decided last month to try out the new TomTom Rider. It is pretty user friendly but the big downside is the fading out of the screen in bright light...something the Zumo never really suffered from.

@ Professor Pipebender...
If you want to navigate on tarmac with a smartphone try the app called "waze", it's free and works flawlessly. On the downside, it requires a data plan with your cellphone subscription and uses about 2mb/hr. If you want to navigate offline try "mapswithme" (paid, about EUR 5, no idea how much that is in imperial gallons...) which allows you to download all maps while connected to wifi (so for instance, you can download all of europe at home) then navigate on bike or in car completely offline (so you don't have to have a data plan with your cellphone subscription).
The Samsung Galaxy (imho) is about as good as any other smartphone with gps.

Professor Pipebender,

I'm not aware of any phone nav apps that will allow you to load the OLAF Topo maps for Morocco. Pretty sure OLAF can be loaded onto most Garmin units but the pistes are not routeable like road navigation is and you won't get turn by turn guidance..The Montana is fantastic but pricey. I've been using a Montana with OLAF in Moroco fine but to get pistes routes onto the unit I need to prepare these on Garmins PC software then load then on.

If you are just looking for road navigation than there are a lot of Apps reccomended on teh HUBB that use OSM (Open Street Maps) for free mapping. OSM's coverage of Morocco is pretty good for roads and does include some pistes as well. I've been using Pocket Earth on the iPhone with OSM for road navigation in Morocco and it works well.

Believe it, and read it in context. The fact that it requires a data connection has no relevance to its quality, it is just a fact. It will avoid traffic jams and police radar, offer correct routing, and uses maps that are even more up to date than OSM.
I understand it will be useless when you're out of cellphonerange, that's why I also suggested the option to use mapswithme, for which you can download any area you want (or just download the whole world for 8Gb). Apparently Le Fantastique Oruxmaps does the same.

And yes, smartassphones are not as good as any other navigation device, but the professor wanted to know if he could use his smartphone...

So we're both saying the thing, really...doh

We are, aren't we? really? :innocent:

For finecitygirl's orginal query, in among the Professor's later queries:-
This is a good summary of what I was saying about my experiences with using both a Tom tom and a garmin system in road-going circumstances.

Thanks for the welcome!

Nope...I'll hang on to the Zumo for when I get fed up of not being able to see the TomTom screen in bright light. The way the weather is, probably not very often!

For Europe, I would go for TomTom. If you have a smartphone like iPhone, then it is just a couple of clicks away. Combine your iPhone with a lifeproof case
http://7c3ca13c7a9797df0ae5-83a5b57c..._design_v2.png

Add a mount to the bike, and a scala rider bluetooth headset in your helmet
http://images.gizmag.com/hero/scala-rider-g4.jpg

Sew some conductive thread into the finger of your glove so you can operate the phone
https://dlnmh9ip6v2uc.cloudfront.net...08544-01-L.jpg

With this, you've got mp3 music (spotify if you so desire), phone, turn by turn navigation with sound, radio, bike to bike communication, action camera with timelapse or video (of either the rider or the road as there are two lenses) and much, much more. It doesn't get any more user friendly than this - and it is quite inexpensive... and you save luggage space, weight, clutter, items to charge and care for - peace of mind.

One thing to keep in mind though, smart phones do not enjoy direct scorching sun (shuts down when over heating). I talk from experience when riding in southern europe with the phone flat in the map case of the tankbag and the sun high... it shut down over and over - utterly useless. I found that a mount behind the windscreen was all it took (angle and some shade) - providing shade should be easy on most bikes.

For Africa, then Garmin is the way to go in my opinion, but the question was Europe, so I won't go there.

Garmin
 

For Europe a Garmin 660 will coverall all countries, it's waterproof and very robust. Once I didn't put it in the cradle properly and it fell off at 70mph, bounced a number of times. I went back to retrieve it and only damage was a crack in the case. A few days ago my friend also dropped her Zumo 660 in Yellowstone, once again, small mark on the case but otherwise working fine.

Yes they are expensive but they are also rugged and waterproof, which the car range is not.

I have used smartphones but find the GPS drains the battery so a Bike powered one is essential.

My tuppence
 

Hi all,

First post, so I thought I'd better make it techy :-)

I use my Samsung Galaxy S3 as a SatNav. I have a usb power cable from Mr BuyBits, a waterproof case (similar to the one available from BuyBits, but with a neoprene cover), mounted on a RAM mount, and I use OSMAnd as my navigation software, all piped through an Autocom, into my lid.

OSMAnd is the official app for the OSM maps, and allows you to download the entire world to your SD card, for use offline.

I've also nicknamed it the "AdventureNav", due to the fact it sometimes takes me a on random course I would not otherwise have taken. :-)

It's available free from the Android market, with a restriction on the number of files you can download, or there is a paid version (which I bought for £4,99) which has no restrictions. It's not perfect, but it's good enough for day to day use IMHO.

Hope this helps someone.

zumo
 

for what its worth I bought a Zumo 550 in 2006 and its still going despite new display, new digitizer thingy and sticky tape over the buttons which have become undone. So any one with a dead zumo 550 with intact buttons please let me know and I'll send you some petrol coupons for the carcass.

I reckon any gps is good. They all have weaknesses and good points. Dont waste money on touratwat laser cut gps brackets though - you simply dont need them unless you have too much money and like buying stuff.

One thing though, don't believe the people who romance about just using maps. I cant remember the number of times the gps has saved me from going mad whilst arriving at an unknown town looking for somewhere to stay. The alternative is driving around in the dark via streets and places you don't know trying to find a bed for the night. Not to mention trying to use a map in a strange country. Funnily enough, even the locals in some places cant relate to a printed map, they've never needed one.

I've just been playing around with various Android mapping apps, and OsmAnd seems to work the best for me.
OruxMaps was too much of a pain to set up as I need laptop access to prepare the maps, and mapswithme is just much too slow and takes forever to download. Plus the maps were not very complete for my area.

Still, I'd check the OSM maps against Google maps and Garmin or others if available, as none of them are 100% accurate or complete for 3rd world traveling.

Sent from my Android chinaphone, please excuse the spelling

Eh, I also use Orux and you can directly cache maps from within it.

So, I've been playing around a bit more with the Android chinaphone and GPS.

What is a good forum to join for issues related to this subject?

For example, I've got my external GPS tracker connected to the phone via bluetooth, and I'm getting way better GPS performance, even under the trees around the house.
Supposedly this also gives much better battery life, my other big issue.

I've done some more reading on the subject, and it appears that away from cell network / data services, the A-GPS based chippers used in many phones can have issues similar to mine.

However, the only app that seems to utilize the external GPS is Oruxmaps. Google maps doesn't, nor does OsmAnd.


Oruxmaps would work for me, except that the map download / management capabilities seem to be way behind OsmAnd.
However I really like all the different maps available on Oruxmaps.

And working out a complex route on all of these socks compared to the newer Garmins I have.


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Quick update on the external GPS tracker to augment / replace the built-in GPS.
I finally got it working great. I had to use a free app Bluetooth GPS Mouse to connect it, but works like a charm.
I tried Bluetooth GPS Provider, didn't work at all.
So far, OsmAnd seems to work best for me. The offline vector maps download quickly and don't use much space, even for the whole country.
Around here, it also seems a bit more accurate than Google.

Oruxmaps has a better map choice, and some other neat features, but offline map management on the phone socks, and navigation basically doesn't exist.

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