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-   -   2 kidnappings (french) in Niamey (https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/north-africa/2-kidnappings-french-in-niamey-54712)

roro 8 Jan 2011 08:30

2 kidnappings (french) in Niamey
 
Details (in French) :

[url=http://www.lemonde.fr/afrique/article/2011/01/08/deux-francais-enleves-au-niger_1462620_3212.html#ens_id=1411819]Deux Fran

Chris Scott 8 Jan 2011 13:38

BBC version

BBC News - Gunmen kidnap two Frenchmen in Niamey, Niger

Dave The Hat 8 Jan 2011 16:04

Same old story, seems they got away though are being pursued:

UPDATE 1-Niger forces and kidnappers clash near Mali border | News by Country | Reuters

Chris Scott 8 Jan 2011 18:48

Reports in the French press tonight suggest the two captives have been killed.

Le Figaro

also here

France24 - Two Frenchmen seized in Niamey restaurant killed

eljulian 9 Jan 2011 00:04

The BBC reports the kidnappers were intercepted north of Ouallam, hostages killed.

BBC News - Two French hostages in Niger killed in rescue attempt


Update, Jan. 9 12:49 GMT:
BBC News - French hostages 'killed by captors' in Niger

Yves 9 Jan 2011 21:28

Most detailed article so far about the tragic termination of the hostage taking in Niamey - in French:

OTAGES TUÉS AU NIGER - Les dessous d'une opération meurtrière, actualité Défense ouverte : Le Point

Most interesting the last 3 paragraphs in my opinion.

Richard Washington 10 Jan 2011 10:18

Tragic event and seemingly the way we can expect more of these events to end, particularly if AQIM continue to be so bold with their attacks. AQIM have crossed a line now and enforced a push-back on themselves.

I would expect AQIM to have a long think about it all and perhaps revert to more remote activities and kidnappings. There has been an escalation in their approach (abductions on the tar road in Mauri which leads to the capital, abductions from the mine at Arlit and now abductions from inside a capital city) and they have reached the point now where they have not succeeded. Until this point pretty much all AQIM has done by way of kidnappings (discounting an event in central-eastern Niger some time ago) has worked out for them.

Something I'm not clear about is why the French special forces don't engage at times other than a hostage drama - in other words on their own terms and with the benefit of surprise.

Richard Washington 10 Jan 2011 11:34

"One of the dead hostages was an aid worker who had been due to marry a Nigerien woman next week. The other was his best man who had just arrived in Niamey for the ceremony, according to France's Journal du Dimanche."
French minister heads to Niger: News24: World: News

These details make me wonder about the planning for this abduction.

It seems unlikely that these two were specifically targeted. It seems more probable that an associate of AQIM was at the restuarant and phoned in the required info to the abductors- e.g. "2 French guys are sitting at the table near the window" - this knowing that French nationals, whoever they might be, frequent the place.

Richard K 10 Jan 2011 12:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Washington (Post 318876)
Something I'm not clear about is why the French special forces don't engage at times other than a hostage drama - in other words on their own terms and with the benefit of surprise.

I am not so certain we would hear about it if they were. Judging by the amount of activity in (and especially above) Mauritania at the moment I don't think the French are sitting back, quite the opposite. I would not like to be driving a dodgy-looking technical in N Mali right now.

Richard Washington 10 Jan 2011 12:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard K (Post 318893)
I am not so certain we would hear about it if they were.

Might we not expect to hear about some successful campaigns from time to time?

Chris Scott 10 Jan 2011 13:08

I would expect AQIM to have a long think about it all...

I don't think AQIM will regard it as a complete failure. It's always a risk they will be chased and they've succeeded in terrorising French interests out there, gained 3 'martyrs', killed a Niger soldier on the way and wounded some French SAS types (all according to some reports).

One reason AQIM cant do remote so easily may be that targets are either well protected (as in Mori and I imagine Arlit mine now) or there are too few tourists and other targets out there now. So they have to reach further. Niamey is just 200km from Mali.

And AQIM still have 5 French nationals captive up in Mali who may be subject to reprisals, if the same or allied AQIM groups are involved.

Ch

Richard K 10 Jan 2011 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Washington (Post 318895)
Might we not expect to hear about some successful campaigns from time to time?

You might think so. But then we don't hear too much about their commitment & strategy in the area generally. My point is, whatever is going on, it all looks very pro-active on the ground.

Richard Washington 10 Jan 2011 16:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard K (Post 318912)
You might think so. But then we don't hear too much about their commitment & strategy in the area generally. My point is, whatever is going on, it all looks very pro-active on the ground.

Info from those kidnapped themselves in the recent past has not been forthcoming either (as far as I can tell). Its only been the Canadian diplomat who provided useful details. My guess is that those who have been set free have been asked to keep details away from the public domain.

Richard, can you say more about what you've seen on the ground?

priffe 10 Jan 2011 16:44

This was a daring kidnapping in down-town Niamey, where French may have thought they would be safe. One gets the impression that Aqim are willing to strike anywhere, even where the odds for a successful operation are not the best.
But the risk-reward factor has changed over the last year, after the ransom was collected for the Spanish there hasn't been any easy paydays for Aqim.
This time noone has accused touaregs and it appears the kidnappers were Aqim proper, from their appearance and since they ultimately killed their hostages.
Even if Aqim stronghold is still in north Mali, there is a lot of dodgy business going on in the Gao-Menaka region that is spilling over into south Niger.
I wonder what had happened if the victims had been, say Swedish? Dutch? British? Surely the reaction from the French and Niger army would have been less?
Would that be a good or bad thing, from the hostages POV?
I hope the bad guys were roughed up enough they won't try this again, but one never knows. I wonder who and where they will target next. Impossible to guess, but perhaps not in Mori. I would be careful esp. if travelling through Niger now. North Nigeria may become the next Aqim stronghold. In Mali, the festivals are going on this month and I hope visitors are vigilant.
Touareg news from the area Actualités - Temoust.org | Le portail du peuple touareg berbère Kel Tamasheq

priffe 10 Jan 2011 17:07

Good coverage in French. Aqmi serait bien-a-l-origine-du-rapt
Quote:

"Eliminated coldly"
The two French nationals kidnapped Friday in Niamey were "coldly eliminated" by their captors, also said Francois Fillon. "The hostage-takers, when they saw they were followed, hostages were eliminated coldly according to preliminary results available to me." "Obviously the investigation is thorough. And all the results will be communicated to families."
The victims, very young.
http://referentiel.nouvelobs.com/file/1249895.jpg

Chris Scott 10 Jan 2011 18:36

On scenario I am interpreting from reading the above is that the French guys were killed in Niger during the first rescue attempt in the night near Ouallam (where it was initially reported the Nigerienne forces backed off for fear of killing the hostages).
AQIM then fled back to Mali 'safe haven' by which time the French had been mobilised and took them on there, possibly knowing the 2 guys were already dead and so without needing to hold back unduly.

Ch

but from what follows below, perhaps this was a generous interpretation. C

Richard Washington 10 Jan 2011 19:24

A detail added by this report
French helicopters comb Mali skies: News24: Africa: News
notes that four French choppers, based in Menaka, took part in the attack on Saturday.

This is either additional to the reported choppers from Ouga or else one of the reports is not right. Menaka is well located between Niamey and NE Mali to make the intercept.

sebm 10 Jan 2011 21:00

One of them was a just new worker in my company (Capgemini).
Quote:

Originally Posted by priffe (Post 318924)


Richard K 10 Jan 2011 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Washington (Post 318913)
Info from those kidnapped themselves in the recent past has not been forthcoming either (as far as I can tell). Its only been the Canadian diplomat who provided useful details. My guess is that those who have been set free have been asked to keep details away from the public domain.

Richard, can you say more about what you've seen on the ground?

I think it is an open secret that the French mil are in Mauri to stay and in a significant capacity. Just as it sounds like they are in Mali

In December there were daily military flights of cargo planes, helicopters and what looked (to my non spotter eyes) like prop-engined trainers over and around Atar. Even a couple of times the rattle of canon fire and explosions (French/Mauritanian target exercises apparently).

So presumably they are training the Mauri's and one would speculate providing air support way out East to where the real activity looks to be. Also lots of stories of big army convoys trucking out that way.

Dave The Hat 11 Jan 2011 17:25

BBC News - Niger seizes suspects in French hostage 'killings'

Niger holding 2 suspects in French killings-sources | News by Country | Reuters

Dave The Hat 11 Jan 2011 23:33

Ennahar Online - Mali: Shots by French helicopters, vehicles of the kidnappers burned

priffe 12 Jan 2011 00:02

It says the bodies of the French were charred, which if true raises questions for how the French handled it. As usual, one may doubt we will hear the whole story.
MBM implicated Ennahar Online - URGENT: Belmokhtar has sponsored the abduction of two French

roro 13 Jan 2011 10:45

And it seems too that only one was killed by a shot from a gun.
It looks like the french army have fired the kidnapper's 4x4 (with hosatges inside it) from an helicopter....

[url=http://www.lemonde.fr/afrique/article/2011/01/12/des-zones-d-ombre-demeurent-apres-l-execution-des-otages-au-mali_1464406_3212.html]Niger : des zones d'ombre demeurent apr


Edit: In English

Richard Washington 13 Jan 2011 11:06

Thanks for posting the article Roro, its an interesting read.

On the whole I think the discussion about 'which bullet killed whom' misses the critical point. It turns out that the military engaged with the kidnappers and there was a scrap. When this kind of decision is made, the chances are people will die and choosing precisely who dies is not possible.

The new thing is that the kidnappers were not given safe passage. And the only way that previous parties could have gotten to NE Mali is if that safe passage was ensured. Think of the 2003 event when the second group 'slipped' through Amguid and southern Algeria 'without being noticed'. Think of the Austrians who were taken all the way from Tunisia to NE Mali and the Spanish who went all the way from the coast road in Mauri to NE Mali. The only way those journeys would have been possible would have been under conditions of 'no engagement'. For whatever reason, the French changed the rules this time. Maybe it was to stem the escalation of AQIM boldness (from Arlit to Niamey). Maybe it was because hits like this in a capital city can't go unchecked. Maybe it was because the western governments realize they are completely powerless when the hostages reach NE Mali. Tragic for the young French guys though.

If AQIM return to Niamey it will surely be because they want a war. And I don't think this is their motive. They like to make sensational hits but this must be coupled with making money too. If they wanted to annoy France, there is all sorts of infrastructure they could hit with little or no risk to themselves. Importantly they choose not to. War for them, seems like an avoidable side issue. But making money is key.

Dave The Hat 13 Jan 2011 16:19

Latest statement from AQIM:

UPDATE 1-Al Qaeda claims kidnapping of Frenchmen found dead | News by Country | Reuters

French claiming that some of the abducters were wearing Nigerien gendarme uniforms and that they fired on French forces.

Richard Washington 13 Jan 2011 16:40

From the article DTH has just posted:

Abu Mohammed, who identified himself as a media official for Al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM) ....... said the abduction came "in the context of responding to France's repressive policies against Muslims and its participation in the crusade in Afghanistan".

AQIM has also abducted nationals from Togo and Madagascar (in the raid on Arlit) which makes a nonsense of this sort of statement.

Chris Scott 13 Jan 2011 17:36

I would say if money is the prime motive, then dont get distracted with sensational/risky hits like Niamey, although really I think Niamey was mostly convenient.

'... left alone if he does not engage in hostile action on our soil' it says here of MBM in Mali.
Maybe that explains why the last 5 grabs have not been in Mali even if all are destined to end there. If Col. El Hadj gets a slice of the pay out, no harm done as far as he's concerned.

Would it be possible to conceal the fact that there were French gunships based in Menaka, right on their path out (as suggested)? You'd imagine not.

We all know that hostage rescues go wrong, like the Scottish woman in Afghanistan, but assuming we have the right end of the stick, this does not sound like much of a rescue. Why not keep going and shoot out the camps where other 5-7 Arevas are holed up in north Mali. That could finish off AQIM up there at the cost of a few colaterals.
I suppose the French are now bargaining on the 'human shield' aspect of no reprisals on the Arevas.

On the whole I think the discussion about 'which bullet killed whom' misses the critical point.

If the gunships went in blazing without warning and knowing the 2 guys were in there, it's a whole new ball game. But we may never know that for sure.

I wonder how it's all going down with French public. It's a bold bluff to call but could put an end to French being targets. Perhaps a quick scandal will help bury it, or the French can see the big picture.

Ch

priffe 14 Jan 2011 02:00

From the latest reports it sounds even worse - that nigerian soldiers and french have exchanged fire, which may lie behind the confusion of this story (reports of 'terrorists in nigerian uniforms' + at first, the French reported two Aqim in Nigerian custody which was later denied by Niamey). All the victims may have been caused by 'friendly' fire! Oh boy how morbid.
If any truth to this, a major success for Aqim and a major blunder for Sarkozy.
Otages : des terroristes portaient l'uniforme de la gendarmerie nigerienne
Des zones d'ombre dans l'accrochage entre Aqmi et les forces spéciales françaises, actualité Défense ouverte : Le Point
Quote:

...But two injured and two dead policemen wore uniforms Nigerians. And our soldiers have found that men who wore uniforms Nigerians fought against us and were not hindered. This is not for us, but to Nigerians, to explain what happened. "

Precisely, a senior Nigerian unidentified has "explained" from Agence France-Presse in Niamey. His version is clear: "We had a damaged military vehicle at the scene where the French army stormed. Our men who died on the spot on Malian territory, were shot dead by French soldiers. I not saying that French soldiers were on purpose, but the military (Niger) whose bodies were returned by the French in Niamey French died of gunfire, "he said, referring to" three "Nigerian soldiers killed.
And the outrageous but totally plausible idea that the kidnappings are carried out often far away from Malian soil as part of an agreement - they may keep their hostages on the outskirts of Timbuktu as long as they pick them up in Niger/Mauri. WOW!

Trying to take take control of Menaka would make sense but I really think they couldn't have choppers there, they must've come from Ouaga?

kirkley 14 Jan 2011 06:55

If Col. El Hadj gets a slice of the pay out, no harm done as far as he's concerned.

I know the Colonel and I seriously doubt that he's on AQMI payroll! As a friend in Kidal told me -- AQMI and Kel Tamashek are like the jackal and the lion in the desert. They avoid one another because it wouldn't be advantageous to either.

gvdaa 14 Jan 2011 07:43

That's what the Touareg and their friends say, but when there's loads of money involved things might be different.

Chris Scott 14 Jan 2011 08:56

I know the Colonel and I seriously doubt that he's on AQMI payroll!

Yes, I admit that was wild speculation - I am turning into Keenan! ;-)

But I think it works something like that - if not that particular individual.

Ch

priffe 14 Jan 2011 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by kirkley (Post 319504)
If Col. El Hadj gets a slice of the pay out, no harm done as far as he's concerned.
I know the Colonel and I seriously doubt that he's on AQMI payroll! As a friend in Kidal told me -- AQMI and Kel Tamashek are like the jackal and the lion in the desert. They avoid one another because it wouldn't be advantageous to either.

Chris Kirkley I was thinking of you and how you could stay on for a long time in Kidal unharmed. I've met plenty of americans between Gao and Bamako and Tombouctoo and no yanks have been kidnapped AFAICR (but one shot in NKT)? One would think them to be prime target.
If they can drive for days to take hostages near Nouadhibou or in downtown Niamey where there's supposedly a lot of security how much easier wouldn't it be to do the same in Kidal/Tombouctoo/Gao where there is close to none?
As for Aqmi and Kel T. there has recently been some clashes in the north between touareg and drug smugglers/aqmi with quite a few causalties reported so perhaps the balance is changing? In an opportunistic environment.
Ag Bahanga is back and he must have some sort of mission/agenda?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Scott (Post 319511)
Yes, I admit that was wild speculation - I am turning into Keenan! ;-)
Ch

You're not quite Keenan yet. :)

Six Q/A
Niger : six questions sur l'échec d'une opération (et quelques réponses...)
How about this:
Quote:

During the operation, the French soldiers were stunned to discover that among the dead and wounded in the ranks of the kidnappers, four were wearing police uniforms Niger. These men had opened fire against the three French helicopters which arrived ... One of the kidnappers' vehicles were also a 4x4 of the police ... The Nigerian authorities are obviously very embarrassed by this case. Is it of complicity with AQIM in the country's security forces or has it provided AQIM (how?) with effects and vehicles of the police: the issue is not resolved.

priffe 15 Jan 2011 11:13

Details from the kidnapping
Barbarie du 8 janvier au Sahel : - Liberation-Niger

Aqims statement makes more sense than what has come out of Paris or Niamey
French strike killed French hostage: News24: World: News

friends of the victims demand resignation of Juppé
Les amis d'Antoine, tué au Niger, pour la démission d'Alain Juppé | Rue89

priffe 17 Jan 2011 01:54

This article explains some of the mishaps that happened
Niger: Le récit du double enlèvement des otages français et de la traque des forces spéciales - leJDD.fr
or in English
Google


I think this is the best and most detailed account of what happened
http://tempsreel.nouvelobs.com/monde...ils-morts.html


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