Algeria questions
 

Dear friends,

I would like to know about the current status of Algerian pistes.
I'm particularly interested in pistes A6 (Tam-Djanet; or A7 in alternative), A3 (Bordj el Haouas - Tarat - Illizi) and A2 (Bordj Omar Driss - Illizi).

Can they be done independently or a guide is always necessary? Or not even with a guide (are they closed)?

All information is appreciated!

Cheers,
José

Hi,
actually all the above 3 routes are closed for tourism.
Also the any Djanet-Tam crossing and Tassili du Hoggar is closed for tourism since a few months.
Ahnet is open.

Regards, Yves

Does it really mean that if I want to visit both Djanet and Tam there is no other way than making that big turn north? (how far? Ouargla?:confused1:).
There has been meetings in Tam where the agencies have strongly protested the detrimental effect these limitations have on their business. Have the authorities presented any convincing arguments for the new regulations? They do not seem like a temporary measure anymore.
I will double check with the guys in Djanet - it is certainly possible to drive Djanet-Tam without encountering anyone but I don't know if they are up to it if their license is in danger.

Hi Priffe,

yes, the restrictions hurt, everybody hopes that they will be lifted soon.
From time to time exceptions happen, but I don't know how to arrange them.
The reasons should be obvious: safety for the tourists.
And yes, Tam Djanet means a huge turn via Ouargla. Or to take the plane which is no option if you travel with your own car.

Hi
In this time we should generaly to talk about possibility to visit country Algeria.
We are group from Poland (2 cars, 8 persons) waiting for visas from 26 of December with no result. The only informations we have that our aplications are in Foreign Ministry in Alger.
I know one Hungarian who is waiting for visa from 8 of December (with no result)
We have to change our travel tips due the long time of waiting.
Now that is the big problem of travelers (with own cars) but I think that only for people from Eastern Europe.

B

Hi Bartoz,
it seems that there had been recent changes in visa procedures for several countries. In Switzerland it takes 2 weeks now. In UK an original LOI is required and no faxed one and a copy of all pages of the passport!

However once in the country traveling seems as usual. I just phoned with a friend who spend the last 2 weeks in DZ with her own car. Same locations of checkpoints, no tension but much less tourists.

Best regards, Yves

Regarding the UK visas, I have also heard that it now takes 3 times as long to issue them (15 working days = nearly 3 weeks), costs 3 x as much and you can only apply for 3 passports at time (if you DIY).

Full details (as I understand them) here:
Sahara Overland ~ Algeria visa and travel information
It is not so clear on the London consulate's website.

I believe this was merely a response to the Brits making tougher regs for Algerians, rather than any sort of clamp down or increase in security procedures. I dont know why the east Europeans are having a hard time with Alg. Maybe fallout from a Hungarian? banger rally that tried to get in.

Ch

FWIW: in Belgium things are relaxed. At the Algerian consulate, visa was issued within 5 days at a cost of 60€ 2 weeks ago. I only had a "certificat d'hébergement" of a hotel with no end date and got a 30-days single-entry visa.

Raf.

So no escort required to meet you at the border Raf? I think Portuguese may have it that easy too.
If yes you could possibly get down as far as the Aoulef road without being stopped. Time to become a Belgian!

Ch

I hope so Chris, they didn't ask anything in the Brussels consulate. The "certificat d'hébergement" comes from Oran. I'll arrive with the ferry in Algiers and will take public transport, normally not going further south than Timimoun - El Golea. Maybe I can give it a try. But as said, no one asked anything about arrival, transport or plans. Let's see in 2 weeks...

Raf

Ah, without a car it must be easier to slip in - especially if arriving on a ferry. Pull the hood down on your jelaba and hope for the best.

Ch

Hi
There is a big and tall wall betwen Belgium and Poland.
In Poland we had to:
1. Send car documents
2. Send special aplications with all route and maps with off road piste
3. We could not get visa with hotel reservations
4. We could not get visa without guide

Now I see, we are second sort of people. We can feel disgusted entire with this process.

B

I would not take it personally. I suspect it's all down to the diplomatic relationship a country has with Algeria - how easily Algerians can visit your country, politics, trade deals - and quite possibly the individual ambassador.
Assuming that the preferred flow is to get out of North Africa and into Europe, if Poland makes it difficult to do this then the Algerian consulate will be instructed to respond - just as has happened with us Brits.

You get the feeling that most factions of the Algerian state do not really encourage desert tourism anyway; since '2003' they don't need the hassle, don't have much infrastructure to support it and the ruling elite don't need the money for the moment. I also suspect that they think if they expose their populace to too much westernism they may get ideas like the Tunisians - and to keep a lid on that as they do in Morocco and Egypt takes a lot of effort. All my speculation of course.

Ch

Algeria - Visa
 

Hi B

you really do not have to feel this way - in december I had quite a long and painful procedere to follow to get finally my visa in Geneva after 4 weeks.
And it was just an "all-inclusive-tour"!!!
We met in the south also some polish tourists, they organised their tour with a local guide without any problems.

Ursula

You are right Chris. Everything is happening apart from us, especially politics.
That kind of tourists like us are not so important also. It is a small groups driving 4x4 travels or bike travels. It is other money in comparing to holiday resorts.

B

Ursula
 

I know this group. They have easier to get visas becouse they left the car in Tunisia and driving in Algeria in guide cars.
I think we are talkking about the same group.

B

Hi

At the beggining I would like to say that we have got visas in Poland in October without any problem. But when we were going to agerian border we have received message from agerian ambassy in Warsaw that we can have problem in passing algerian border. At the border there was not any problem to pass ant it took about 4 hours (as usual I suppose).

Ursula
If you have been in Djanet and Tadrart I think we had met there. We were traveling in 8 cars, so quite big group.

Algeria - Visa....
 

hi pylon
nice to meet you here again :clap:

have you seen my pictures on Flickr: ursulazrich's Photostream

Ursula

Bartosz if you want some details about our trip please write to prv.


Very nice photo galeries Ursula, not only from Algeria ;) I didn't brake throught 6GB of photos. But soon... ;)

sz

Thanks for all the inputs!

To add to the discussion, the Algerian embassy in Lisbon states in the website that visas are issued in 8-working days and cost 60 euros.

I'll dig around concerning the viability of doing Tam-Djanet.

Cheers,
José

Hello José!

I’ve sent you a PM

"I would not take it personally. I suspect it's all down to the diplomatic relationship a country has with Algeria - how easily Algerians can visit your country, politics, trade deals - and quite possibly the individual ambassador."

Well, the emabassy or the ambassador himself cannot really do anything to speed up things or even to find out what's going on. They say their hands are tied as after they send your 'dossier' to the Ministry of F.A. those guy send it over to the Ministry of I.A. (their bureaucrats really hold the threads in their hands). Until they get a feedback a yes or a no they don't know more then we do.

We are the ones who applied for visas on December 8.... what is it today... Jan 20? Still no answer. Not even a bloody rejection. Not a word saying "wait a little bit more guys, we're working on it".

We met the ambassador and some other diplomats in Budapest last week to ask for their opinion and hints for speeding up things or at least to get an answer for the massive delay as we're not sure it's a common practice to make people wait 7 weeks without even saying a word.

I'm impressed reading about 1-2 weeks delivery time in other parts of Europe. Since the decision is made in Algiers I see no reason for differentiation.
Especially that EU laws regulate the immigration in Belgium, Poland, Hungary and elsewhere so I see no reason to "punish" this country and favour another.

One thing is sure - if you fly in, meet a guide and participate in a local trip you have no problems and get your visa without a hitch. If you want to drive your own car there - hard times.
This is really a joke.
I think we rather turn our heads to Libya as compared to Algeria it's a travelers' paradise.

g.

Maybe it is in Hungary, but in Brussels I applied for my visa on friday and they told me it would be ready on tuesday (2 working days!). I can't see that the dossier has to pass all these ministries in this short period, and the consulate clearly stated I would get my visa when I applied with the necessary documents.

For the records, what did I exactly need in Belgium for a 30-days single-entry visa?
- a "certificat d'hébergement", in my case just a fax from a hotel with no end date of my stay. The "certificat" wasn't even stamped or signed by anything official.
- the AC-43 application document filled in
- a proof of medical insurance (B-ALG8)
- passport
- 2 ID photos
- 60€ costs
That's it. No difference if I would go by car, as they didn't ask anything about my plans, transport, route, arrival etc.

It is clear now there's a huge difference even between EU countries, e.g.:
- the difficulties in Hungary, Poland
- the easy procedure in Belgium, Portugal
- French nationalities have to pay 100€, Belgians and Portuguese 60€, etc.

I feel sorry for the difficulties some of us have and wish it will turn out fine in the end.

Now let's see how it turns out on the ground. I'll try to go as far south as I can with public transport. It can also be a 30-days visit of Algiers...

Raf

Raf,

there are some embassies / consulates which have the right to issue visas themselves without sending the dossier to Algiers.
A few, especially in France and Belgium - for obvious reasons.

I guess the majority of the countries are in the other 'hat'.

Yes, the visa fee can be slightly different just like the number of passport photos, the difference is the process. If you your papers hit the road to the bureaucracy you're lost.
You were lucky to apply for a visa in Brussels but since they have a pretty strict territorial restriction (you can apply for visa in another country than your passport if you're a resident) I cannot do the same.

Needless to say - if you use public transport, they don't care but as soon as you stop by the border with your car they ask for your local 'guide' and if you don't have one, you simply turn back.

I can get a visa with a simple hotel reservation like I did last year, just got a fax from Algiers.
A SAME DAY VISA!
But that's not the issue now...

g.

getting visa
 

I was planning to visit Algeria with Bartosz (Polish group waiting for visas since 26th Dec). In seems to me that making a trip using our private cars is what makes this huge delay. We were told in Algerian consulate that if we intended to travel in Algeria in guide's car they would'n have to send our 'dossier' back to Algeria and therefore the whole process of getting visas would be shortened to two weeks.

T

Not even a bloody rejection.

Either I wrote it here or I was talking about it with someone recently and we were wondering if an outright visa rejection without a good reason is some sort of consular faux pas. To do so is bad form if it gets out.
So they delay and delay and hope you will go away. I had this myself about 12 years ago with Alg, right up to the point where I drove to the consulate to get my passport on the day of a ferry and headed Libya instead. That is why the first edition of Sahara Overland had so little on Algeria.

It must be extremely frustrating. Certainly, if anything gets sent to Algiers it's as good as buried.

I take it gararin you were not expecting to drive into and around Algeria without an escort? That is a lost cause for most nationalities, certainly in the south.

Ch

"In seems to me that making a trip using our private cars is what makes this huge delay."

Correct.

Still, honestly, what's the difference between driving down to Djanet with our own cars or fly to Djanet and drive around in their cars? We have a guide from the border and take the main road all the way to Illizi...


g.

Hi Gagarin
This is a big diference for algerian clerks.
It is a substance of the case, that in such countries as Algieria, Libia and many other at the moment a tourism isn't important. They have oil and it is most important for them. But oil at one time will end.

Bartosz

Chris:

"To do so is bad form if it gets out.
So they delay and delay and hope you will go away."

Such a professional attitude and nice way of representing a country, really. Not sure if this is the case but thinking more about it, you're right - very likely.

It's extremely frustrating. Especially when you have a group on your back. And you stand there like an idiot since you deal with idiots on the other end.

Bartosz - I know tourism is not priority at all but somehow I cannot get rid of my European way of thinking and in a way expect them to be straight saying: We don't like people driving their cars in Algeria. Period.
So I'm not wasting my time (and money) dealing with them.
Yes, I know.... should change my mindset.


g.

Ch:

I take it gararin you were not expecting to drive into and around Algeria without an escort? That is a lost cause for most nationalities, certainly in the south.

Not at all! We are fully backed with a local partner. They are clueless as well as never experienced such an issue before.


g.

In 2009 we got our visas at the embassy in Stockholm, same-day service. I believe cost was €40? The clerk asked us to present hotel bookings which we did.
No questions were asked about transportation.
We then drove to Tunisia in our 4x4.
At the border (Bou Chebka) they asked for a guide but let us go after we showed out hotel reservations for Algiers. We then drove to Illizi without a guide.
So, we were lucky, and an exception to the rule.
Nice little trip it was. I will try it again. :)
Too bad they don't treat you the same way.

In Nov 2010 there were 22 checkpoints on the way to Djanet. Few times we had a problem because we didn't have extraordinary stamp from last town and our guide has to go back to get it. Most frustrating was when was about one hour to sunset sometimes we could not leave checkpoint. "For our security!!". ehhh...

sz

In Jan 2010 we did the same: got the visa same day with a simple hotel reservation to Algiers, drove to the Northern border (since we really had to go to Algiers first) nobody asked a single question about where we were going and if we had a guide or not.

Things change. Especially if you announce you want to visit Le Grand Sud and since you need to have a guide there and you need to have a complete itinerary they are aware of your plans. One car might do the way you did but you can't really do the same with a group of cars.


g.

True, I cannot tell anyone that it will work out this way for them. Most likely it will not.
But it was really straight forward when we did it - we followed all instructions we were given, had all docs in good order, visited the DRS in Ouargla and they stamped our fiches and called down the road to smoothen our passage. They were surprised we drove without a guide but noone demanded one and there were never any arguments or raised voices.
We never avoided police or gendarmes. But it wasn't until Ouargla I dared say "Illizi" when they asked where we were going.
I can recall 14 checkpoints from Oued to Djanet.