Any Sahara Vets' in London want to meet?
 

Hi there,

Are there any Sahara Veteran's out there who would want to meet up in London to offer me advice on a trip?

I'm in the (very early) stages of planning a little Sahara mission at the end of this year, possibly selling a Vehicle before I hit Sub Sahara, then finding some sort of passage onward to South-Africa.

Suffering from information overload and needing clean cut advice!

Rob

Rob

although not a vet of the sahara I would be interested in chatting with you as I have similar plans for a trip early next year. Info share would be good....

what vehicle are you looking at taking?

Paul

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the reply. Ideally I'd probably be looking at taking an old Merc', or similar, thrashing it down to Mali or Senegal, trying to bribe my way out of Carnet's and other seemingly unecessary documents en-route, selling it for a reasonable profit, then trying to figure out how to make it as far as South Africa, and eventually Australia; all overland (and Sea of course.)

Ambitious: very, Possible: maybe, Fun: Certainly!

Would be great to meet up and share research; are you in London at any time soon?

Rob

Rob
Sorry,
I am not planning to come to London in the near future. I am on a shift apttern of lates and nights for the next four weeks and then fly out to South Africa with my wife and son for a five week holiday/tour.

I will need to get to Stanfords when I get back at the end of September for maps etc. Perhaps we can keep in touch through this site or my work e-mail (paul.j.crawford@consignia.com)

i have a HJ60 TLC that i am thinking of kitting out for a full overland trip, or taking with minimum prep and selling in mauri/Sennegal. No CDP is the way to go!!

When would you plan on leaving the UK?

Paul

trying to bribe my way out of Carnet's and other seemingly unnecessary documents en-route

<in my very humble opinion...[/i] To assume bribery will pave the way in under-developed countries is an unfortunate presumption.
The occasional hand-warmers MAY be appropriate in certain cases, but buying an illegal service is not recommended.

All countries have their rules and regulations, and the wise traveller will become acquainted with them before setting out.

I met two cash-laden travellers recently who thought that every country south of Europe was bent. They got as far as Morocco, and were put on the next boat back to Spain… for attempted bribery.

Bribery is bad for the travelling fraternity – avoid it at all costs, and don’t allow locals to try to establish a precedent.

If locals ask for a bribe, the answer is NO.

If you find yourself genuinely in breach of regulations, then a broader minded approach MAY be appropriate.

I hope this message doesn’t sound presumptuous - you will have a good trip if it is based upon a real understanding of, and sympathy with, the requirements of each country you are travelling to.

Bon voyage


------------------
Kitmax - Traveller
Desert Pictures at
http://www.kitmax.com/kitmax/kit03ph...velgallery.htm
homepage http://www.kitmax.com

Thanks you for the learned advice Kit.

I would not presume bribary as the ideal, nor morally encouragable, way to travel through developing Countries; however, not all of us are blessed with the funds to purchase an expensive CDP from the relevant motoring organisation, and short of making the return voyage to Britain, or crippling myself financially or beaucratically through import taxes at each border en route, I see no way of completed my intended trip.

I am of course open to suggestions from seasoned travellers as to how I may go about it within the law of each Country that I intend to visit, and look forward reading the response(s.)

I believe in some countries such as Senegal, its possible to enter without a Carnet. Equally for some of the countries, the import costs may be very low. Either of these approaches may well allow you to achieve what you want to achieve without having to bribe corrupt officials.

Whilst bribery might be away of getting out of a difficult situation, there are also the risks. There have been stories before of travellers illegally importing and selling cars and being made to hand over all the money from the sale prior to being allowed to leave as an alternative to prison. Some of these experiances have been put down to the car buyers being in league with corrupt officials. The point is whilst you expect that bribery might be a way out of trouble, you might find it takes you into more trouble. It would be more effective if you can track down details of west african countries that don't require import costs / carnets / etc.

In reference to the last post:

does anybody know which these Countries are, if indeed they exist at all? And does anybody have any first hand experience of selling a vehicle around the South-Eastern Sahara?

>>>looking at taking an old Merc', or >>>similar, thrashing it down to Mali or >>>Senegal, trying to bribe my way out of >>>Carnet's and other seemingly unecessary >>>documents en-route, selling it for a >>>reasonable profit, then trying

HI !!! . While the plan sounds good and exciting , I dont think it is a good idea to plan on "bribering the way" out . Specially on CDP issues . If policemen in Senegal / Mauritania find a tourist wihtout neither his car written in his passport nor a CDP ,
that vehicle will be confiscated on the spot. Try to macth that with a bribe! .Lately , the police are consistenly asking for "green paper" , "papiers of douanne" or "Pass Avant" -in Morocco , Mauriatanie and Senegal .
I dont think it is that difficult to do the trip on the law (all these permits are about 50 Eur all together ) , and will bring you peace of mind .

Regading selling a car ... I d suggest u planning to sell the car in one of the few countries which DO NOT REQUIRE CDP NEITHER WRITE YOUR DETAILS IN YOUR PASSPORT . (that is , The Gambia , Togo , and Benim , to my knowledge) .

Also , it seems to me .. that the odds of getting a profit on selling a car in WAfrica are close to null . You should consider yourself lucky if you get your holidays for free ! . Taking into account the price of the air tickets , food , housing , petrols , bribes , fines ! , permits ,insurance , I find really difficult to get any benefit by selling old mercedes. ! . -not to speak if the Mercedes breaks down -! You lose the whole lot !. I don;t think now there are profit margin in a single car to make the operation economically viable.At most , you will recover some of your expenses.

Happy trip planning !

Thanks for taking the time to proffer some weemingly sensible advice MADRID.

Could you (or anyone) tell me where these documents (green paper" , "papiers of douanne" or "Pass Avant) are issued? I'm presuming I obtain them at the border, or perhaps I can obtain them elsewere to save on waiting time.

Also, is anyone able to provide a conscise list detailing: Country/Documents required/where these documents are obtained & how much? This info would be extremely useful & very much appreciated. (Especially if it is up to date!)

Rob

One option is a fake CDP, do a search on this forum using "Mr.Carnet" as a search...

Sam.

Thats the kind of advise I'm after Sam! Thanks.

Don't fancy handing 300 of my favorites to 'Mr Carnet' for something I could probably do myself though - especially as I have just downloaded the pdf of the fake carnet. Has anyone tried using this particular one?

Also, can anyone recommend a source for a suitable type of paper for printing this on, or could tell me what paper genuine carnets are made of?

Rob

I guess that's why he asks £300 (prob negotiable though). He explained to me about the problems with paper (the perforations etc.).

I would suggest in any case that if you are interested, you contact him. He's based in London, so can easily meet you.

To revert to my original topic, are their any London based Saharan travellers out there who would like to meet and furnish me with the pearls of their desert wisdom?

Rob

I'll even get the beers in...

Yea I can hook up with you .

hey, cool, have you done the Sahara trip? Fancy meeting up one evening next week perhaps? Whereabouts are you based?

Tip: DON'T go the fake carnet route.

This has been discussed in the paperwork forum, and has been noted by the people who legitimately provide carnets. The word is that a fake won't make it through Africa. First off - they see hundreds of carnets - even the best fake is easily spotted. The carnets are serial numbered, and a quick fax check to the AIT (frequently done even when they're not particularly suspicious) will uncover a phony. Then it can be confiscation of the vehicle and a spell in an Africa jail.

If you're dumb enough to use one after that bit of information, don't talk about it here! They DO read us.

------------------
Grant Johnson

Seek, and ye shall find.
------------------------

One world, Two wheels.
www.HorizonsUnlimited.com

Yes the Atlantic route , do asearch on my posts . I live in fulham .

I agree with Kitmax 100% in that presuming you can bribe your way through Africa is wrong.

The following countries are possible to enter without a Carnet, as far as I can remember the prices are there too for the "laisser-paisser/passavant".

Morrocco, free
Mauritania, UM 1000 ca €3.50 plus tax for the vehicle, 1000 for a car, 2000 for a 4X4, 3000 for a "truck".
Senegal CFA 2500 €3.75 (CFA 5000 out of normal working hours)
Gambia, free (officially)
Guinea Bissau CFA 2500 (can be up to 10000 for a truck)
Guinea Conakry CFA 20,000-30,000 may have changed used to be only available at the embassy
Mali CFA 2000 (usually they want 5000)
Burkina CFA 2500
Niger CFA 2500 (officially, can be a lot more)
Ivory Coast CFA 5000 (officially its 2000 or 2500)
Togo CFA 2000
Benin CFA 2000 (Togo and Benin I cant really remember but this is the price for an African registered 4X4.

Ghana and Nigeria were not requiring carnets for a while last year but this may have changed.
Open to corrections.

Dont try it with a forged carnet, if they catch you your in big big trouble and youve got bad cards with your embassy. Only a huge bribe or a big official fine (probably with the loss of the vehicle) will get you out.

Hi Roop, If you can still meet, I could make my way over to Fulham one evening this week, or anywhere in London even. Let me know and we can organise...


Rob

Yea we could hook up at the Southern Cross Pub, 65 New Kings Rd. SW6 ( Parsons Green end ) on Wednsday 14TH @ 9 pm .

Hi Roop, Which Wednesday is that? Tomorrow can't do as my Sister is coming to stay. Any-time nxt week O.K, at the Southern Cross?

WEDN 20/08 SOUTHERN CROSS @ 9PM OK ?

cool - see you there...


oh, and how do I recognise you?!

I will find you .