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DO NOT GO TO ALGERIA!
The unexplained dissapearance of 21 western travlers in southern Algeria is an absolute travesty and I am shocked there is not more outrage expressed here.
5 groups of up to 21 people are missing and absolutely not accounted for since Feb. 21. The last two groups went missing during the time the prior alerts have been posted. The Algerian authorities are not able to either retrieve the missing, nor are they evidently able to prevent "disappearances". Do not put yourself or allow any other traveler to be put in harms way. |
Dear Kevin,
Expressions of great emotion etc. on an internet bulletin board don't advance anybody very far. Donating to the search fund, however, is a useful, positive action. Sam. |
We got information that another 6ths group of 8 persons from Austria with 4 4x4 is missing. The 2 IVECO trucks with 4 persons (5th group) seems to have got lost on the road from Illizi to Djanet. We are talking now UNSAFE ROADS even with "wrong uniformed controls". We have information that the travellers already in the country are requested to join at campings and hotels and will be escorted to frontiere in convois with military presence.
GET OUT AND DON'T GET INTO ALGERIA !!! Marina |
As Sam says, lots of capital letters and exclamation marks aren't going to do much good.
I happen to agree, in this case, that keeping out of that particular region of Algeria is a good idea (and we have changed our own travel plans accordingly). However, in general, the value of this kind of bulletin board is for people to exchange information and experience-based opinions, so that they can make up their own minds about what actions to take. It helps me very little to have "KEEP OUT OF ALGERIA!" repeated at daily intervals! On a more practical level, does anyone know whether any tourists are currently still in that area? Have any passed that way recently (i.e. since the first disappearances) without incident? Regards, Michael... |
I understand that you are interested in more detailed information than "get out".
However, we in charge of helping to get all available details are meeting on www.sahara-info.ch. It is impossible to translate each and everything into EN and FR. Please believe us, the situation is more than disturbing and what we says should be respected. If you don't believe the German experts and stick to your travel plans to Libya, Algeria, Tunisia and Morocco, you are risking your health and life for the time being. We are talking terrorists with political interest. They don't care if you don't. Marina |
Why don't go to Tunisia or Morocco or even Libya ? There is no problem until now in these countries !
No more problem than in occidental countries wher terrorism is always possible ! |
I don't see any use in going to north africa at all - borders are not controllable at all. If rumours get truth that the originators of the attacks ar Al Quaida people from Afghanistan then no country there is safe for any European - they blasted 16 Germans in Djerba / Tunisia away, already forgotten ? Marina
PS: remarks that other north africa countries would be safe are complete nonsense. Now there are 29 people missing. |
Perhaps we should all stay at home!
The situation in SE Alg is plenty serious enough that I've put my proposed March/April Djanet excursion on hold, but I would have gone if I'd been going to Morocco, for instance. There was a discussion re. travelling to such areas in times of conflict here: http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/ubb...ML/000920.html Note that A.B. (one of the moderators of this forum) is resident in Egypt. ------------------ ichapp.users.btopenworld.com [This message has been edited by IanC (edited 04 April 2003).] |
I support Sam's view and have the forum providing travelers with information rather then emotional statements.
Seen the recent events in Algeria it indeed doesn't seem wise to go there at the moment. Extending this to the rest of North Africa doesn't seem right to me, and might make people decide to venture into Algeria because the alternatives are no good either. Accidents and terrorist attacks happen. They happen in North Africa, in Spain, in London, and on the way to work. Till a certain extent everyone has to choose for its own which risks he is prepared to take. At a certain point, the risk is as such that it's no longer fair towards other people to take it. I think we're at that point now in Algeria, far from there in the rest of North Africa. |
Ok, I made the same mistake by getting emotional around this topic. The remarks about this are right. This forum has to stay a source of usefull information.
On the other hand I disagree strongly with Marina when she questions the safety in the rest of North Africa. You always need to be carefull and keep your eyes open. But I do not believe that the whole of Marocco is unsafe because of the events in Algeria. Ok, you might consider not going to Figuid since it is as good as in Algeria and the roads towards it are right next to the border. But still you could ride together with some locals. The roads down here are well travelled. For the rest of Marocco I can't imagin it is no-go teritorry. I would still go. As far as I think Marocco is not more dangerous then before. Unless you have a coalition flag wrapped around your chest. Just keep the situation in Irak in mind and you'll be fine. ------------------ http://users.pandora.be/pieter.maes2/ |
I had intended to cross from Almeria in Spain to Nador in eastern Morocco then down to Bouarfa from there to Erfoud, I still think it should be reasonably safe if you are sensible, however, I would value any advice regarding this route and would change it if it was felt that it maybe to risky at the present time.
Thanks Baz [This message has been edited by Baz99 (edited 05 April 2003).] |
For a start I don't know how far or how close the problem area is to the border of Marocco. Can anybody locate the problem area in relation to the border with Marocco?
The road Nador-Bouarfa is at very close to the border, but it is well travelled and in good shape. If the problem area is not next to the border on Algerian side I wouldn't worry to much. Do keep an eye on your fuel level. Not too much fuel stations here, you shouldn't skip one. Going from Bouarfa to Figuig is also OK I think. The valley you ride through has lots of military posts and thus I think this area should be safe. In figiug there is a nice cheap hotel. It is mentioned in the Lonely planet if you have one. If not drop me a mail, I'll look it up. The road from Boarfa towards Ar Rachidia / Erfoud is actually more remote then the two previous roads. But I had more check points on this road and very thourough ones! Think at some point the border is pretty much on the side of the road. But it is well travelled and in good shape. Same waring for fuel on this road. If you don't trust the whole thing then just ride together with the CTM busses that ride down these roads dailly in both directions. ------------------ http://users.pandora.be/pieter.maes2/ [This message has been edited by fireboomer (edited 06 April 2003).] |
Hello fireboomer!
The problem area (around Illizi etc., SE Alg) is some 700 miles (1100km) from Morocco at the nearest point. Even if it close, I would not have thought it would be relevant, due to the impermeable Morocco/Algeria border. When are you off to Scandinavaia? Due the Alg situation, I'm now thinking of a run round Switzerland and Austia. Not quite the same, but still somewhere I want to try. ------------------ ichapp.users.btopenworld.com |
"On a more practical level, does anyone know whether any tourists are currently still in that area? Have any passed that way recently (i.e. since the first disappearances) without incident?"
Sandy, I met a Scottish and New Zealand biker on the ferry to Tunis on 7 March, who were heading in that general direction for 3 weeks. They had quite a big route planned, but I can't remember exactly where. Also, when I was at TOzeur a few days later, there were a number of groups of German bikers and 3 Swiss in 4X4's who were heading into Algy. Again, to where I am not sure. The fact that nothing has been said on any of these forums about any of these nationalities going missing, after I met them, hopefully means that they all had successful journeys. Geoff |
Ian,
Planning end of september begin of October. For more info look under Europe or Route planning for the topic 'UK to Nordkapp'. All the info is there I believe. If you wonna check off to travel together drop me a mail and we can see what we can work out. As far as the impereable border of Marocco... euh for what I have seen of it it is far from impereable. Especially at night. Locals and people who are used to travel in these kind of areas can cross the border easely on some spots between Oujda-Fifuig and then direction Erfoud. Pieter. ------------------ http://users.pandora.be/pieter.maes2/ |
Fireboomer
Thanks very much for the info, there are a number of us travelling this route so it should be ok if we stick together. Thanks once again everyone Maybe see you down there. Kind regards Baz |
Twenty years ago this month, give or take
A blast from the past from the early years of this forum* marking the beginning of the end of adventure tourism in the greater Sahara.
Another HUBB discussion around the same time on the future of Alg desert tourism: https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hu...ia-visas-14259 A few years later a downbeat list of adventure travel options in the Sahara from Motorrad mag: https://www.motorradonline.de/reise/...in-der-sahara/ An article I archived from Motorrad by Rainer B on his ordeal in 2003: https://sahara-overland.com/2015/05/...apped-in-2003/ Can't find a HUBB thread on the actual events – a series of abductions over several days from mid-February 03 – even though some of us knew of them prior to the OP's panicky post when the news broke worldwide in April 2003. (It was the day they pulled down Sadaam Hussein's statue in Baghdad – April 9 – the future looked bright...) I think I may have been asked to initially keep it offline. (I'd flown out of Algeria in early Feb with a moto mate and a few broken ribs). Anyway, here we are. Two days ago two Red Cross workers were grabbed north of Gao which is a bit less safe now the French have withdrawn and Wagner/Afrika Corps moved in. AFAIK it's the first desert kidnapping for nearly 2 years. As we know the hot zone has moved south into the Sahel. * The Sahara Forum was moved from my own ropey late-90s website to the HUBB in 2001. Fyi Sahara Forum post #1 is here. RichieBoy rhetorically asks the perennial question; 'Am I daft?' Interesting to see the regular posters' and scan users' Sahara queries and responses from that time. What an amazing resource the HUBB has become! |
Current advice from UK govt is not to travel to border areas of Algeria, with the exception of the Morocco border. This could suggest the country isn't too unsafe as a whole, but in general from what I've heard it is a not a safe place at all for westerners. Certainly Mali (where the kidnappings occurred) and Niger aren't really tourist destinations. Maybe somebody can offer recent first-hand advice though.
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By regional standards Alg is safe enough these days.
Other issues and restrictions make it a difficult destination. Quote:
What they mean is steer clear of Niger and Mali borders, but I doubt a tourist and their escort could get near them if they tried. |
I know that some groups (under an agency umbrella) were permitted to visit the Tarat region, right on the Libyan border in the NE Tassili. From what I could pick up on the grapewine, things have been quiet for some time in the Ghat area, hence the relaxed attitude on the Algerian side of the border. As usual, the FO is years behind actual conditions and events.
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I suspect their sources are more comprehensive and up to date than yours ;) However as a government body their travel advice will always err on the side of cautious.
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I do agree FCO that the advice will always be on the cautious side. But in my view that leads it to giving advice generally aimed towards the lowest common dominator in terms appetite for risk - think 2.4 children family here. Which is totally fair enough. Its also worth remembering that most travel insurance rests on an FCO recommendation too, to the Department has a responsibility in that sense. For me, nonetheless, the FCO advice is always a good starting point. Then it's a case of taking things step by step, accepting that things might not pass muster at each - desk research on recent events, a range of local opinion on the ground from different sources when in-country and of course the views of local security. |
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