Libya February 2011
 

Not much here about the Libyan situation... does anyone know anything about the borders - still open? Anyone over there now or been recently?

I've heard that Lybian policemen and customs have gone away the border post .... and that Tunisian policemen try to do their best!!
RR.

Gone away? Just like that? Bloody hell.... hope this madness will end soon.


g.

Well today Qadaffi ordered the air force to bomb the military headquarters around the country and it looks like a full scale civil war.
Two big clans in the east have revolted and proclaimed the "Islamic Emirate of Benghazi"!
Wonder if there is any country in the world willing to receive colonel Q? If not he will likely die on his home turf.

No doubt good comrade Chavez will welcome him...

Harry's Place � Chavez and Gaddafi: what now?

I have created a new thread with the material on the evolving Libyan situation. News is sub-sampled given the media and internet blackouts but anyone out in the desert but in touch via satellite phone might want to extend their stay or try out the old Marlboro route to Niger and Chad...... Seems like the borders are abandoned which, for Libya, sounds unbelievable!

Egypt-Libya border is being kept open by Egypt. The Libyan side is being staffed by 'people's committees' (for those in the UK - sounds like The Big Society).


Egypt reinforces Libya border: News24: Africa: News
Egypt's new military rulers reinforced their border with Libya on Tuesday and opened the frontier round-the-clock to thousands fleeing the turmoil unleashed by the revolt against Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi.


And Benghazi airport runways are destroyed
Libya: Benghazi airport runways destroyed: News24: Africa: News

There was an Al Jazeera reporter on the Tunisian side of the Ras Ajdir border post this morning, saying that nothing was coming through from Libya, due to everything being stopped on the Libyan side.

Roger

Well Qadaffi takes the cake with that other comrade in North Korea for being the craaaaziest leaders on the planet.
He flew in planeloads of mercenary soldiers from all over Africa since his own troops can't be trusted to fire on their own people.
They are using heavy artillery on civilians, blowing them to pieces - very ugly pics have been posted on various websites and youtube.
He won't get out of this alive. But then - what will happen? Any reports from inside Libya would be interesting.

http://twitter.com/#!/shadihamid

Turkish Search and Rescue Team in Benghazi
 

About 3 hours later, ( 5 pm in istanbul)2 Turkish Speed Passenger Ferries
(Osman Gazi and Orhan Gazi)will be in Benghazi full of first aid materials,food etc. escorted by a warship.Also 10 of our members with 2 ambulances there.
If you need help, get in touch with 112-UMKE team in the port Benghazi.
(UMKE-National Medical Rescue Team) each ferry capasity is 1.200 passengers.
Also 4 Turkish Passenger planes continue getting people out of libya.
If you want to get out libya and need more information, urgently contact our
consulate there. Children first.
Bingazi Başkonsolosluğu: Tel: + 218 91 356 46 19, + 218 61 223 00 03

Türkiye Cumhuriyeti Bingazi Başkonsolosluğu
Our team has emblems on shoulders.You can easily get in touch with them in the port.

Do you know if any travellers have gone out Lybia since 3 or 4 days?
And how?
I think some tourists are still in the desert there.....

RR.

I have first-hand info from a group who managed to make their way from the Fezzan to Tripoli and bribe their way on to one of the last flights out, just before the events turned really ugly. Not a pretty story....

Let me remind everyone, we are not the only ones reading this forum. Please do not post anything that might compromise the safety of anyone still in Libya.

I have heard that some overlanders have managed to cross the Algerian-Tunisian border at places other than the normal frontier at Ras Adjir. In other words at borders which are normally closed to westerners. Most will know which crossings I am referring to.

ach, human memory, how short is it really :)

United States, Libya Sign Historic Pact on Military Cooperation

Libya has signed treaties with many countries including EU, China, Russia, USA....after the colonel deposited 1.5B$ in an American bank account as compensation for terror victims of the Panam flight and the disco bombing in Berlinn(both of which he likely was behind personally), he was given a few rewards.
He also negotiated a peace btw Sudan and Chad a few years ago, and has been the good guy on several occasions in the last decade.
And he gave up on nukes.
But still a madman. Now his time seems to be in short supply.
He was supposed to hold a speech today at al-Zawiya but had to call it in by phone.
I read that he has offered $2000 per day to mercenary fighters from Nigeria and Tchad, and they are still arriving by the planeloads.
http://twitter.com/#!/search?q=%23Libya
Noone seems to have even a clue as to what will come after?

Is he any crazier than Mugabe??

No-one seems bothered about what THAT nutter gets up to!

Oh! That's right! ... There's no oil in Zimbabwe!

The situation of that man inside his bunker in Tripoli reminds me the last hours of Adolf Hitler inside the Reichstag in flames, 30.05.1945.
Who knows if it'll finish in the same way...

mercenaries from Mauri too

still, he's a dead man

The inability to make wise decisions is probably why his people have now finally had enough.

Not stepping down, and the ugly crimes he´s performing against his own people just add to that long list of bad decisions... No way that bastard will ever get away with this.

These are some thoughts on the changing scene in Libya as it relates to those who want to spend time in the desert in Libya.


For a long time now, Libya has been a Saharan destination which has allowed safe travel. I think it is the only Saharan country (bar Morocco) in which there has been no kidnappings in the last 10 years. I expect that the situation will be different after the dust settles in Libya because:
1) Whatever has kept AQIM from operating there will probably have passed. AQIM is losing no time in wading in. For example see:
Qaeda vows to back Libya uprising: News24: Africa: News
"Nicosia - Al-Qaeda's branch in North Africa has vowed to do everything in its power to help an uprising against Libyan strongman Muammar Gaddafi, according to a statement posted on Thursday by the SITE monitoring group".


2) It has been the case that countries ruled by very effective military/police, once liberalised, become a lot more unsafe (e.g. Russia, South Africa).


So while many will be pleased to see Mr Gaddafi gone, it will almost certainly change things for desert travellers (this post is not meant as a justification of the green flag in any way).

There has been warnings of the possible takeover of islamists in the popular uprisings in the arab world, but so far they have been either unsuccessful or kept a low profile.

In the long run, introduction of democracy is the best cure against extremism, military pressure is not. But short term there will be turmoil as the influence of Qadaffi and his money suddenly disappears. He has been supporting dictators like Mugabe and also Aziz in Mauritania.

The Libyan islamists were almost wiped out in prison massacres by Qadaffi in 1996.
In Libya's Escalating Chaos, an Opening for al-Qaeda?

Hi,

read in Liberté-Algérie:

"...Large groups of foreigners, traveling in Libya (tourists and visitors), are also supported on their return to the checkpoints Tarat (Illizi) and further south of Tinalkoum (Djanet), the source said . The Minister of Interior and Local Government, Daho Ould Kablia, said Wednesday on France 24 that Algeria had opened its borders to foreigners unable to leave Libya by air to their countries of origin."

LIBERTE, QUOTIDIEN NATIONAL D'INFORMATION -

Thanks Yves for this info.
I was almost sure that they tried to go away through Algeria but no reliable info before (As far as I know).

RR.

Pragmatically, I think there's a tradeoff. Without such strict state control over various areas of society, maybe some of the more dangerous elements might raise their head above the parapet; but on the other hand Libya becomes more accessible to outsiders.

Try drawing a scattergraph of countries; the X axis is a measure of how free the citizens are, and the Y axis is a measure of how easy it is (in terms of paperwork, fees, official escorts &c) for a tourist to bring in a vehicle and spend 2 weeks roaming around the wilderness. I think we'd find a positive correlation...

I hope this is over sooner rather than later. The longer Gaddafi tries to cling on to power, the more people suffer.

As we know Morocco and Tunisia are the easiest countries in North Africa to travel in. You can pitch up and roam round. Morocco isn't really characterised by the deep, wide-open Sahara and Tunisia may still restrict movement where the country starts to look like the Sahara. As we've learnt, the people in Tunisia were not so free.

Most 'deep' Saharan countries (Algeria, Niger, Libya, Chad, Mali, Egypt) impose restrictions on travel. Of these Libya and Egypt are arguably the most restrictive (paperwork, fees, official escorts etc) but are also the safest historically from the perspective of kidnappings.

One day these 'deep' Saharan countries may be more like Morocco in the sense that they may be more relaxed about paperwork, fees, escorts and so on. But there is no example to hand of any 'deep' Saharan country that has made this transition. My main point in the earlier posting is that in the course of the transition to a free country, with fewer restrictions, Libya will become more unsafe as this has so often been the case where the lid has been lifted on repressive regimes. A part of me also wonders whether the deep Sahara will ever (meaning next 10-15 years) return to the situation where unrestricted travel will be allowed (as it was in Libya in 1999, Algeria up to 2003).

Bob,

Observation not quite based on scientific rigour. Less bureaucracy in Tunisia was not a sign of political freedom but high dependence on tourism. In Egypt, freedom of movement in the desert was extremely bureaucratized, because of its irrelevance to mass beach tourism (governed by a diferent set of rules altogehter). In Libya, desert tourism was also considered a nuisance, but bureacracy was bearable compared to Egypt, etc...

Your reasoning is, of course true, but only in relation to that part of the world that has embraced the concept of tourism as part of public diplomacy.

Some time ago, while in Italy I was required to produce my passport to exchange a hundred quid at a cambio (long before the money laundering regulations were introduced). I had no passport on me so I had to take a long walk to the hotel before being able to buy lunch. That was an act of an "oppressive regime" by my standards :thumbdown:

Must be tempting for young touaregs, money and adventure. Worrisome report from Kidal
AFP: Kadhafi recruiting hundreds of Tuareg fighters: Mali

At the same time, thousands of subsaharan africans in Libya, many working in construction or oil, are fleeing or hiding as they are attacked by Libyan rebels, accused of being mercenaries.

here's hoping that Budrinna, long time poster on the Sahara forum, is safely in the desert somewhere....

more on the recruitment of Tauregs as mercenaries in Libya. The article below talks of 800 with some of the recruitment being done from a Libyan owned hotel in Bamako.

Gaddafi recruits 800 Tuareg mercenaries: News24: Africa: News

Libya - March 2011
 

Hi Guys,

I have just returned from Libya. We crossed border in Wazin (Nalut) on 2nd of March. Since 23rd of Feb we were going through deserts from Al Uweynat to the western border with Tunisia. 2/3 of the country is safe, quiet and very friendly. Police is friendly and supportive but military checkpoints are sometime a problem as those guys are very nervous. Leaving the country we had to pass through Nalut road and rebel checkpoints. They were also easygoing and friendly despite being surrounded by Ghadaffi units that we had to pass through as well.

All in all, safe and quiet in desert, mess in few cities in the north. Looks like Libya will be out of tourist destination list at least for 6 months.

Cheers,

Jarek

Thanks Wywial for this fresh report.

RR.

If Gaddafi manages to hold on, no one from Europe or North America can expect to visit the Jamahiriya for a long, long time.....

As result of our "heroic millitary effort" you might soon have a choice of two separate Libyas to visit :oops2:

Cheers

Based on this report it sounds like the perfect destination for a bit of overlanding... I mean, empty and desperate for tourist dollars, you could get yourself a 5 star suite for peanuts... if there is anyone available to serve you that is!! :rofl:

No but more seriously I'm keeping a close eye on the progress of the region as we are planning in Oct/Nov 2011 a trip through Libya, so please keep posting updates.:thumbup1: Lets hope the Libyan borders don't all close and westerners don't get banished as Ghaddafi would have it... :thumbdown:

Hi all ! still ok still waiting tourists

Budrinna

Hello Budrinna

Good to see you back.
Could you give us an idea what's the situation like in Libya and what to expect in the near future? Do you know what is going on in Fezzan? I've been trynig to contact a friend but suspect the internet is not be working there.

A question Roma very very out of place here in the Hub , can't answer but just say you that phone & int lines are always normally working , probably your friends are out or may be they doesn't want to answer .

Cheers

I spoke to some Libyans in Tripoli lately. People are very afraid of pro-Gaddafi forces. Most people seem to be happy about foreign intervention, but I think it can take a long time before Gaddafi is gone.

Here is a report of 57 000 people, mostly from Niger, emptying out of Libya into Dirkou. Its hard to imagine Dirkou coping with that number of people.

And anyone who has crossed the central Tenere has got to love this bit:

"She said Niger nationals were then routed to Agadez, three days by road from Dirkou"

That 'road' was at least 100 km wide when I drove it......

Over 57 000 flee Libya violence to Niger: News24: Africa: News

An update on the story above: BBC News - Libya: Fleeing migrants flood Niger

The article suggests that "Over the years Gaddafi has helped resolve various rebellions led by Tuaregs" (by way of explaining Tuareg loyalty to Libya). My understanding was Libya funded or instigated some these rebellions in the first place - and then having stirred it up, stepped in with a resolution.

Hi Budrinna,

Do you think it would be possible to travel through Libya in Mid -July, entering from Tunisia and exiting into Egypt. I am travelling by road to Mecca, Saudi Arabia.

If so can you please advise me of the costs, and visa procedure, for One motorcycle and One rider.

Alternatively you can email me on parvazsharif [at] hotmail [dot] com

Best regards

H A

I wouldn't have thought that possible, let alone desirable!

Perhaps he's actually trying to BECOME "Heavens Angel"?!?!?

Sabah al heir Heaven Angel

Cannot be sure for next mid July , may be for July 2012. Inchall'ah .

It is a pity because actualy no need of visa ( but only for benghazi area).

By the way we change activity, lake of tourist we are now involved in the field of speed delivery transportation ( like DHL , FEDEX ) all over the country with 4x4.
Cheers Budrinna

actualy no need of visa ( but only for benghazi area).

I heard the same from a newsman in mid-May. Getting in from Egypt has never been so easy - no escort needed. But of course you can only stay within the rebel-controlled area and even this is not without its risks.

"... Once in Libya the east is safe along the coast road as far as Benghazi and westerners are very welcome, especially press (Sahafi). There is no need to be accompanied by a minder, but travel is much easier with local contacts

There are numerous checkpoints on all roads which should be negotiated with patience and care and I would suggest travelling in daylight only but in the weeks I have been here I have encountered no problems in this area.

South of Adjdabya the town of Jalu is in rebel hands but is frequently raided by PGF. There has been no concerted effort to take and hold the town but there is frequent fighting which, because it is remote and small-scale rarely makes the news. I would advise care if travelling to Jalu itself and I would not recommend going any further south at this time.

It is impossible to make predictions for the future, especially in this place, but for what it is worth the Transitional National Council say western tourists will be welcome in the "new Libya" and they see tourism as a viable future revenue stream."

So while you can get in very easily from Salloum, getting south into the desert is not a good idea for the moment. You can't be sure who you'll meet, and that may include unaligned bandits taking advantage of the turmoil.

I would have thought it's obvious a transit across the north of the country is not possible until it's all over.

Ch

Hi,

Thanks Budrinna and CH for your update and advice.

I shall continue to watch this space.

Insha Allah hope to meet you one day Budrinna, on my way through.

Best regards

H A

Thank You H.A. for Your good wishes and like You hope all to be soon out of this dirty war.

For C.S. Don’t know on “what source ” your foresight on future Libyan tourism’s is based but at your place and, if may suggest before attempting in drawing reliable predictions and good ideas from the newsmen’s report ( & newswomen too ) would first learn a little bit more about Libya’s history starting from 1911 . If not convicted this is a the good time to come down since at least no need of visa. That ‘s the only thing sure as the heaps of ruins!


Budrinna

For C.S. Don’t know on “what source ” your foresight on future Libyan tourism’s is based

I offer no foresight on the future Libyan tourism. Perhaps it was not clear, but the section in italics and colour and speech marks was a quote from the news guy reporting on talking to TNC people, and he said:

"... It is impossible to make predictions for the future, especially in this place, but for what it is worth the Transitional National Council say western tourists will be welcome in the "new Libya" and they see tourism as a viable future revenue stream."

Sounds reasonable to me.

And because overland access from the east now sounds easy (according to his information), some over-adventuresome travellers might think, 'oh, a good way to get south into the desert' as there are 'no reports' of fighting down there.
Based on my enquiries, I discourage this and I am sure you would agree.

Ch

…It is impossible to make prediction ….. but intention(s) Yes
..(according to his information) .. who pay him ? big problem !
.. no reports' of fighting down there…. read more also Arabic press!

but Over all ….and after all
…some over-adventuresome travellers might think, 'oh, a good way to get south…

Really dear Mr C.S. could not be able even to imagine that are existing peoples in Ue so “adventurer” to brave the nowadays situation in Libya and travel in it unless they are ….newsmen , special peoples or little bit of bad like spies , smugglers and so on . That why suggested to cheek our story in order to not have surprise after all is ended. Travelling a country doesn’t matter
If many times by bike or 4x4 for week or years is not enough .It is like a picture it just proof the instant when shutted , and if it is true and not arranged .
Even we already change activity we will always plaid for Sahara’s culture and it trough culture because Sahara is our culture our land , our life and future .

Cheers with Mirinda ( still have plenty)
Budrinna

.. could not be able even to imagine that are existing peoples in Ue so “adventurer” to brave the nowadays situation in Libya and travel in it unless they are...

Unless they are this guy:
Hi Budrinna,
Do you think it would be possible to travel through Libya in Mid -July, entering from Tunisia and exiting into Egypt...

So never mind reading the Arabic press, sometimes it is necessary to state the obvious for the many who read this forum but do not comment.

As you also say: "may be for July 2012. Inchall'ah"

Amen to that!

Ch

We drove from Cairo to Benghazi as "tourists" about two weeks ago: Gentleman Adventurer : LuxuryRogue

I went to Eastern-Libya in March as a traveler, or tourist, as you like. Entered from Egypt, Salloum border. May be it wasn't the best idea, but I was lying the Egyptian officials to be a journalist because I was supposed to be refused as a private traveler. That time the Egyptian border terminal looked like a refugee camp because a few hundred/thousand African and Asian people who had worked before in Libya were waiting there for documents or transportation back to their homeland and even the passport controller's cabins were full of refugees, women, men and children from Chad, Sudan, Philippines, Bangladesh. They were lying on the floor or gathering outside among the fence of the terminal or dropping stones to each-other. The immigration officier first sent me to the mukhabarat (state intelligence) office because they register the journalists. At this point I was sure to be failed, but surprisingly no press ID was asked from me, just took my passport for 2 minutes, after returned to immigration where they belived me without any document that I finished with mukhabarat and got Egyptian exit stamp which had a key importance in Libya because it was the only evidence of entering legally into the country because of the lack of Libyan entry stamp.

There is a gate between the two countries where they checked my exit stamp and asked me to make a photo together with Egyptian policeman and Libyan rebel soldier who were guarding this gate together. Just right to this there was a room where Libyan rebel authorities were registering the people entering the country. It was full of local Egyptian smugglers and a few foreign journalists and aid workers. There was hurly-burly chaos inside. Also lied the same for Libyan rebels, that I was a journalist, but they were more suspicious than their Egyptian collegues so asked my press ID and my recommendation letter from my embassy what I did not have and they were not interested in my compliments that I was freelancer and refused my entry and sent me back to Egypt, but I was too determined to see the revolution, so I turned right after leaving the room, to Libya, and not left back to Egypt. At the first few seconds I was sure to be arrested and questioned as a spy, but nobody was following me. The rebels in the room did not see where I was turning outside and the soldiers outside did not hear the conversation in the room. They just registered the people in a book, but no entry stamp was given to anybody there, so in Libya I just showed my Egyptian exit to the officials when they questioned me in almost every town. Within a minute I hitch-hiked a car to Msaad the next town in a few kilometers and spent about a week in Libya.

I returned to Egypt on 16 March when Kaddafi occupied Ajdabiyah because I was afraid of an attack directly against Tobruk through the desert road and at the border recognised that all the westerners were thinking the same way as me, because almost everybody left that day. There I met a German tourist too, he was the only not journalist or aid worker who I saw there. The Egyptians did not give me visa at Salloum when I returned just stamped my passport and remarked that I had to buy a visa when leaving the country.

In Libya it was extremely easy to hitch-hike, people were amazingly friendly but sometimes I was taken to the local medjlis - the council which controlls the communities - to be questioned. On 16 March the rebels were very nervous and scared about Kaddafi's advance so they arrested me in Tobruk and I was questioned by general Suleiman Mahmoud who was a generous and wise man and ordered his soldiers to drop me back to Egyptian border.

Update.
 

Hi All,
Transiting Libya along the northern coast is not yet advisable. A few days ago I was in Tripoli and although the road to Misurata is in use again, it is main users are rebels vehicles and there are dozens of improvised checkpoints along the road.
Also a lot of weapons have fallen into civilian hands and are all over the place. Judging by the way the new owners handle their looted firearms, they have little experience and a lot of excitement. Sirte is the last Gaddafi stronghold between the Misurata & Benghazi. A few weeks ago NATO confirmed that there had been SCUD missiles launched from Sirte in the direction of Misurata and those things make a very loud bang when they detonate.
Having said that, most of the interest shown towards me at the time was concern about my saftey rather than what I was doing there.
There have been reports of fighting in the town of Sabha in the south, so stand by for access there.
Things are rapidly changing in this country, so I would expect that very soon there will be full access to the place and maybe without the need for a guide.
CJ.