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-   -   Mali, two French kidnapped Nov 2011 (https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/north-africa/mali-two-french-kidnapped-nov-60396)

Sam Rutherford 24 Nov 2011 13:13

Mali, two French kidnapped Nov 2011
 
News just breaking now, between Mopti and Gao.

Travel safe, Sam.

'later, Sam.

Richard Washington 24 Nov 2011 14:28

Hombori apparently (15 deg 17 N, 1 deg 42 W)- well south of the river. Two geologists taken from their hotel.

Chris Scott 24 Nov 2011 15:57

Here's one news link of many:

BBC News - Mali gunmen abduct two French citizens from hotel

Another report says:
The two geologists ... were seized a day after a former French military official involved in efforts to free the [Areva?] hostages in [from] Niger was reportedly shot and wounded.

Looks like the FCO exclusion map was not so far-fetched after all.

Ch

bugsy 24 Nov 2011 20:31

oh dear...
lets hope history does not repeat-

"France sent special forces soldiers to try to rescue two Frenchmen kidnapped in Niger in January. The pair were killed during the operation. ":(

priffe 24 Nov 2011 20:40

This kidnapping is atypical in several ways
-it took place in Mali (first since the kidnappings near Menaka)
-south of the river Niger - a first I think - so how will they get them to the north? Take the ferry? Use small pirogues perhaps.
I'm guessing that this was done by a criminal gang looking to make some money. Hombori is a touristy place.

I hear the wounded Frenchman was a colonel, friend of Tchad's Idriss Deby, recruited by Areva to negotiate with Aqim.

priffe 25 Nov 2011 06:41

http://maliweb.net/category.php?NID=83723&intr=
"They were armed to the teeth." Mamadou, the driver of the two French hostages in Mali and witness of the scene is still in shock. Asked by Europe 1, he said the violence with which the armed group attacked the two geologists.

"Where are the white"?

The incident took place at night, around 1 hour on Wednesday at Le Dombia to Hombori, a town situated between Mopti and Gao. Seven individuals, dressed in tunics and armed with Kalashnikov rifles and knives entering the hotel after gagged the driver of the French.

"They quickly tied the guards, after they came to me, pointing their guns, their Kalashnikovs. They tied, then they broke down the door to enter the hotel," said Mamadou Europe1 of the microphone.

Once in the hotel, the kidnappers then sequester the property owner and ask him to tell them the room where "the two white." "They said 'we did not come to you, we came to the whites. 'They said,' do not shout, do nothing ', "said the micro RFI leader of the hotel.

Traces of blood found

There, the deuxFfrançais woke up in their sleep. One of them was the victim of violence. "I heard screams," the manager of the hotel. "There was a healthy one they savagely beaten," says the driver of the two French. According to initial findings, traces of blood were found on the carpet and pillows in the hotel room of the victims.

Another witness saw the French bundled into a vehicle. An hour later, the kidnappers and their hostages had disappeared in the desert. The two French have indeed been taken to the far north of Mali.

priffe 25 Nov 2011 08:44

Tuareg kidnappers
Rapt de deux Français au Mali : sur la piste des ravisseurs

"Philippe Verdon and Serge Lazarevic: according to a municipal source in Mali, are the names of two French nationals kidnapped by unidentified gunmen in the town of Hombori, between Mopti and Gao in northern Mali. An abduction that bears the brand of al-Qaeda in Islamic Maghreb (AQIM).
"This is about 1 hour 30 Thursday morning I received the phone call announcing the kidnapping of two French geologists from the work carried out on the cement plant Hombori "says Hamidou Djiré, the sub- prefect of the city. The two men had come on a mission on November 22, the account of the World Bank. "This is Philippe Verdon and Serge Lazarevic, two men of about fifty-sixty years," says Amadou Maiga Beidy, the mayor of Hombori.
He said that "the two men were abducted from the hotel Doumbia by ten armed men. They spoke in French to the staff of the hotel, saying they had not come for them but for whites. They tied up the employees before bringing the two French in the back of their car. Between them they speak Tamashek. " The procedure resembles that used by Al-Qaeda in Islamic Maghreb (AQIM) in many similar operations.
"An accomplice of the kidnappers took tea with the French"
"Nobody has seen the direction taken by the kidnappers, but we explore two tracks. One in the north that leads to the Niger River, which can cross from the village of Didi to win the far north of Mali , and the second leads to the east, where the kidnappers may be hiding in the hills and dense forest " .
"A turbaned man of light complexion spent the night with the French and left with the kidnappers," said the manager of the camp Kaga Tondo, Dabou Maouloud, whose establishment is located near the hotel Doumbia. "Indeed, an unknown person returned to the hotel around noon yesterday [November 23, Ed], confirms the sub-prefect of Hombori. He asked the manager to rent him a room. In the early evening he went for a stroll and at 19 hours, he took tea with the two French."

Hamidou Djiré adds that "the police arrested a suspect who is in the interrogation. This is the guide of the French, Ibrahim Ag. " The abduction brings the number of French hostages of AQIM to 6, and casts a shadow on the proposed cement plant Hombori, the people hoped to start in the coming months."

priffe 25 Nov 2011 09:30

Then there are rumours...
http://maliweb.net/category.php?NID=83743&intr=
that the two were not "a mining engineer and a geologist", working for the World Bank - but a mercenary tied to Bob Denard, and the other running a security company in France.
Perhaps all French are agents working for the DGSE?

Some think they went to Burkina.
"Several informants point to the direction taken by the kidnappers. This means that if they continue north from Gourma-Hombori, the kidnappers will have to cross the river. "That would not be intelligent," says an old guard who has long experience in this region. The State Defence Staff, contacted by our editor in the afternoon of Thursday, is apparently of the same opinion as he declares "we believe they continue in the direction of a neighboring country."
That can be Burkina Faso border with Mali the long strip of Agache, with less hiding places than the Adrar des Ifoghas but still an area moonscape in places."

If so, this may not be Aqim but a copycat operation by a criminal gang.

Dave The Hat 25 Nov 2011 17:07

French soldiers joined Mali's army on Friday to help track down two French geologists who were kidnapped from their hotel by an armed gang near the border with Niger early Thursday.

French military joins hunt for geologists seized in Mali - Mali - FRANCE 24

silver G 25 Nov 2011 19:39

"Doubts surfaced on Friday over the identity of the two French nationals initially described as geologists who were kidnapped on Thursday in the town of Hombori, close to the border with Burkina Faso.
France's Europe 1 radio said the two were known to French secret services. One, of Hungarian extraction, took part during the 1990s in the recruitment of Yugoslavian mercenaries to fight in then Zaire, now the Democratic Republic of Congo.
The second was arrested in September 2003 in the Indian Ocean archipelago island Comoros for his part in an attempted coup d'etat, it said."


If they were mercenaries then what are they doing there? And for who?

priffe 26 Nov 2011 00:53

French mercenaries have a long history in Africa, and it ain't over yet.
Look up Bob Denard and the tacit approval he had from the French authorities.
Pierre Camatte, a malaria drug researcher, was kidnapped near Menaka some years ago.
Rumours had it he was also working for DGSE
Ah, the intrigue.
I think what we are seeing are people (tuaregs) returning from Libya, strapped for cash, desperate for some lucrative action.
This may mean new ways of kidnapping we haven't seen before, in areas that used to be (comparatively) safe.
The tourist season in Mali is over even before it began.

priffe 27 Nov 2011 13:31

Car found
 
One of the two vehicles found in north Mali
Enlèvement au Mali: une voiture "localisée" - L'EXPRESS
according to a source in Gao, they "were divided into two groups after removal: one took the direction of the Algerian border to the north, the other, "a diversion", that of the border with Burkina Faso to the south. "

priffe 28 Nov 2011 17:40

Mr Verdon has been a hostage before - in Sudan.
Enlevé au Mali, Philippe Verdon avait déjà été pris en otage au Soudan - actu-match - ParisMatch.com
Spent four months, negotiated free by the DGSE.

priffe 28 Nov 2011 20:02

MBM behind it?
Mali : AQMI est responsable de l'enlèvement des deux "géologues" français

Why go south of the river if there wasn't something that made these two french special targets?

Where can you cross the river, besides T'too and Gao? There is a ferry halfway between, right?
This kidnap must have been well planned with escape routes ready. If they were indeed taken to north of the mighty Niger.

Chris Scott 4 Dec 2011 16:21

Quote:

Why go south of the river if there wasn't something that made these two french special targets?
Quite right - probably:

Echorouk Online - Le Monde: The Two Kidnapped Frenchmen Were About to Form Militia to Counter AQIM,

Still, it's good to know the Tuareg militia we talked about before (to knock out AQIM) was indeed being set up.

Ch

kirkley 5 Dec 2011 05:10

A friend involved in the rebellion assures me that the Malian government was responsible for the kidnapping in order to make the "Tuareg look bad". But conspiracy theories notwithstanding, this is both more and less complicated than it looks. Inchallah, I'll be in Kidal in Jan. -- with updates forthcoming!

Though, is it wise to post here? Is AQMI reading the board??!?!

chris

priffe 5 Dec 2011 09:08

It is an open board, so anyone can read it.
And even if Aqmi don't have wifi hotspots in the dunes, there are people reading here and everywhere else who may have a business interest in finding potential assets, such as not-yet-kidnapped westerners in the region.
So I wouldn't mention here where in the desert I will be in January ;)

Let's speculate that the man with the Bamako car who checked in same afternoon as the two French, without registering his name, and had tea with them but then disappeared when they were kidnapped. Let's presume that he was organizing the event, and that he knew who they were and what they were up to, and contacted Aqmi. Let us speculate he had connections within Mali military or government.
If as mentioned elsewhere the fee for delivering a potential hostage is €40000 that would be hard to pass on for some people.
Be safe wherever you go! And do give us updates. (Do you know Iyad Ag Ghali btw? :))

There is something strange about that Echorouk article - what they write makes perfect sense, but there is no other source. They refer to Le Monde but at least online there is no such article. ???
The militias may be set up anyway. But with the blessing of the Mali government? Armed touaregs are one of their greatest nightmares, no?
If indeed the two french had that mission setting up and training military commandoes, what on earth were they doing strutting around in Hombori? Are the French that naive?

Chris Scott 5 Dec 2011 09:50

Quote:

They refer to Le Monde but at least online there is no such article. ???
I was also curious but failed to find it, although I did not look that hard.

Since located by pf: Au Mali, les myst�res du rapt des otages fran�ais - LeMonde.fr

I forget if it is echouk or ennahar that are said to be the mouthpiece of the DRS.

I suppose the 'govt op to make the Tuareg look bad*' theory can be explained if you assume the militia training was not with Mali govt consent (ie: initiated by France) and/or was sanctioned by the elements of the state who benefit from AQIM and want to keep it that way. And as priffe suggests, well trained and armed Tuareg may support an insurrection.
But I think there is always a way to make a conspiracy theory sound plausible.

And like pf says, assuming you are a conspicuous toubab, I would not be announcing when I will be in a risky place like Kidal.

Ch

* As the dz army admitted to doing in the 90s - 'black op' massacres of civilians while dressed as GIA, to discredit them.

roro 8 Dec 2011 13:16

From French Newspaper "Le Monde"
 
http://medias.lemonde.fr/mmpub/img/lgo/lemonde_pet.gif t http://medias.lemonde.fr/mmpub/img/bt/je_popup_d.gif 9 décembre 2011 .
Otages du Mali Les secrets d'une négociation

http://www.lemonde.fr/journalelectro...ri.jpg.567.jpg
Une rivalité franco-française brouille les négociations pour libérer les Français encore détenus au Mali. L'artisan de la première libération, Jean-Marc Gadoullet, raconte au " Monde " les coulisses de ses pourparlers avec Abou Zeid

http://medias.lemonde.fr/mmpub/img/bt/txt-grd.gif
http://medias.lemonde.fr/mmpub/img/bt/txt-pet.gif
http://medias.lemonde.fr/mmpub/img/bt/imp.gif
http://www.lemonde.fr/medias/www/img/icn/favori_stk.png
http://www.lemonde.fr/journalelectro...S+X1P1_ori.jpg
L'otage Daniel Larribe, en 2005, sur le site des mines d'uranium d'Arlit au Niger. En bas, avec sa femme et Abou Zeid (1 - sup - er - /sup - à gauche) sur une capture d'écran d'une vidéo des otages diffusée sur Al Andalus.
WILLIAM DANIELS/ABACA, DR


Jean-Marc Gadoullet a le même teint plombé que le ciel de décembre, qu'on aperçoit derrière les vitres de sa chambre, dans un hôpital de la région parisienne où il a été transféré dans la plus grande discrétion deux semaines plus tôt. Le 29 novembre, à la sortie de Gao (Mali), son véhicule a forcé un barrage de gendarmes. " Comment je pouvais les reconnaître ? Deux types en tee-shirt qui armaient leurs kalachnikovs au bord de la route... Je pensais que c'étaient des bandits. Ils ont dû penser que j'étais un bandit moi-même. "
C'est ce qu'assure l'ex-colonel du service action de la DGSE, chargé par Satom, filiale du groupe français Vinci, de missions de sécurité pour ses projets d'Afrique de l'Ouest. Mais, depuis septembre 2010, il menait des négociations pour tenter de faire libérer un groupe d'otages détenus par Abou Zeid, chef d'une katiba (brigade) d'Al-Qaida au Maghreb islamique (AQMI), retenus dans le nord du Mali après leur enlèvement à Arlit, au Niger voisin. Lors de l'épisode du barrage à Gao, Jean-Marc Gadoullet a frisé la catastrophe. Une balle a traversé son épaule, fracassant l'omoplate avant de ressortir et de frôler sa joue, sans atteindre l'artère.
L'important, pour lui, n'est pas là. Le fil des négociations engagées avec Abdelhamid Abou Zeid est suspendu. Brisé ? Pas encore. Sur sa table de chevet, Jean-Marc Gadoullet a posé ses téléphones et attend l'appel de l'équipe avec laquelle il a approché Abou Zeid. Son " guide " est auprès d'AQMI depuis cinq jours. Mais il tarde à rentrer et à donner des nouvelles. " C'est mauvais, ça n'est jamais arrivé avant ", s'inquiète Jean-Marc Gadoullet.
Au cours des dernières semaines, les événements se sont bousculés au Mali. Coup sur coup, en l'espace de deux jours, deux nouvelles prises d'otages sont survenues, à Hombori puis à Tombouctou. Un mort, cinq personnes enlevées, aucune trace ou revendication tangible jusqu'à présent. Parallèlement, Jean-Marc Gadoullet était blessé à Gao alors que la confusion s'installait sur le rôle de plusieurs équipes concurrentes françaises. En particulier des accusations par voie de presse de détournement de millions d'euros. De quoi fâcher " l'émir ", le surnom d'Abou Zeid, qui suit l'actualité sur Internet.
Le 29 novembre, l'ex-lieutenant colonel, " habillé en Touareg ", " montait " pourtant dans son pick-up vers le nord du Mali, direction l'Adrar des Ifoghas, pour y retrouver à nouveau Abou Zeid. Selon plusieurs sources, il se trouvait en compagnie d'un responsable touareg connu, l'un de ses contacts avec AQMI. Pour arriver jusqu'à eux, Jean-Marc Gadoullet a pris l'habitude d'éviter les routes principales et d'emprunter les pistes des trafiquants, sur lesquelles l'armée se hasarde peu.
Lors de sa première rencontre avec Abou Zeid, en décembre, Jean-Marc Gadoullet s'est senti " terrorisé " en approchant. Le groupe d'Abou Zeid a exécuté ou laissé mourir deux de ses otages, le Français Michel Germaneau et le Britannique Edwin Dyer. A la différence d'autres " émirs " qui mélangent djihad et contrebande, Abou Zeid est un pur produit des maquis violents de l'Algérie des années 1990, des GIA (Groupe islamique armé) au GSPC (Groupe salafiste pour la prédication et le combat).
Mais Jean-Marc Gadoullet, rétrospectivement, s'attarde avec plaisir sur le récit de sa première rencontre avec Abou Zeid, cet homme qui ne se sépare jamais d'un fusil-mitrailleur RPK presque aussi haut que lui. Sur un plateau battu par le vent, son véhicule approchait d'une arête rocheuse quand il a soudain distingué des silhouettes " très bien positionnées " : sur chaque point éminent du massif, se tenait un homme armé, tunique flottant dans le vent.
Avec le temps, il dit avoir appris à admirer la " légèreté " de l'équipement et les façons de se mouvoir des hommes de la katiba " à un moment où les forces spéciales - des armées régulières - ont tendance à s'alourdir ".
La négociation qui va démarrer s'annonce particulièrement difficile. Le 16 septembre 2010, lors d'une opération inédite commandée directement par Abou Zeid, les hommes de la katiba ont roulé jusqu'à Arlit, au Niger, dans la région d'extraction de l'uranium. Devant la " cité cadre " (ensemble de logements pour les employés de la compagnie Areva et de Satom), sept personnes ont été emmenées.
La présence d'Abou Zeid signale l'importance de l'opération. Trois jours durant, les véhicules font route avec les otages. " On comprenait qu'on allait vers l'ouest ", se souvient aujourd'hui Françoise Larribe, enlevée ce soir-là et libérée depuis par Jean-Marc Gadoullet. " On avait peur d'arriver en Mauritanie. Parce qu'en Mauritanie, on risquait une intervention de l'armée... "
Au sein d'AQMI, une tentative d'intervention peut entraîner très vite l'exécution des otages. Il reste quatre Français de ce groupe enlevé à Arlit aux mains d'Abou Zeid, parmi lesquels le mari de Françoise Larribe. Leur libération est d'une infinie délicatesse.
En décembre, lors de leur première rencontre, Jean-Marc Gadoullet s'était présenté à Abou Zeid comme " Jean-Marc, responsable de sécurité de chantier ". Il y a peu de chances que le chef de la katiba, qui ne traite qu'avec des intermédiaires susceptibles de conduire à des gouvernements, se soit contenté de cette ligne d'explication. " Areva, Satom, c'est la France. La France est notre ennemie, ce n'est pas une affaire privée ", répond de sa minuscule voix " l'émir. " Ce qui ne signifie pas que la discussion est impossible.
Un autre négociateur étranger, qui a mené avec succès une libération d'otages avec la même katiba dans le passé, assure qu'il avait établi " un contact téléphonique régulier " avec les proches d'Abou Zeid.
Les négociations engagées en décembre portent sur un " premier dossier ", celui de trois otages qu'Abou Zeid ne souhaite en réalité pas garder : Jean-Claude Rakotoarilalao est malgache. Alex Awando est togolais. Dans la guerre des signes, AQMI ne veut pas apparaître comme s'attaquant " à des Africains ". La troisième personne est la seule femme du groupe, Françoise Larribe, épouse de Daniel Larribe, ingénieur expert d'Areva. Abou Zeid ne garde pas les femmes. Il en a même libéré sans demander de rançon. Ce qui ne signifie pas que le processus de libération soit simple pour autant.
Abou Zeid, peu à peu, pose des conditions. Il faut transmettre un message, écrit à la main sur un carnet, àun certain responsable politique. Le message est signé d'une empreinte digitale, faite à l'encre rouge. Des préliminaires avant des " revendications politiques et économiques " sur lesquelles le négociateur reste discret. Plus tard, " l'émir " demandera que soient libérés des " moudjahidine " en France, en Algérie ou en Mauritanie. Sans succès.
Mais dans l'intervalle, la situation se complique en raison de la concurrence d'une autre équipe qui tente d'ouvrir un canal de négociation. Les accusations fusent. Détournements. Menaces de mort. Tout y passe. Jean-Marc Gadoullet promet de poursuivre en justice ceux qui " salissent son nom ". Son ennemi principal se nomme Guy Delbrel. Introduit dans les présidences d'Afrique de l'Ouest, celui-ci travaille auprès de Jean-Cyril Spinetta, le PDG d'Air-France-KLM, dont il a été le " Monsieur Afrique ".
Il semble mener une tentative de négociations parallèles à celles de l'équipe de Jean-Marc Gadoullet. La dispute franco-française fait du bruit et des dégâts dans le nord du Mali. A Paris, on tente de la juguler. Un haut responsable de la DGSE convoque les deux hommes pour un déjeuner de réconciliation dans une brasserie place de la République. En pure perte. Jean-Marc Gadoullet promet de " transmettre ses coordonnées " à Guy Delbrel. C'est peu.
Auparavant, la conclusion du " premier dossier ", assure Jean-Marc Gadoullet, a été retardée de près de deux semaines en raison d'une manoeuvre de l'équipe rivale, qui a réussi à empêcher l'atterrissage à Bamako d'un avion privé apportant certains " éléments " indispensables à cette libération. " Du coup, j'ai mis au point un autre truc par le Niger dans le plus grand secret. "
Le fait est que le 24 février, Françoise Larribe apprend brusquement qu'elle va être libérée et sera donc contrainte de laisser derrière elle, après cinq mois et demi de détention, son mari, Daniel, et un troisième otage (les autres sont éparpillés ailleurs). A l'évocation de ces moments, ses yeux s'embuent. Il faut à toute force essayer d'espérer que d'autres libérations suivront. Peut-être sur le même mode. Elle se souvient d'avoir vu Jean-Marc Gadoullet surgir, encore habillé en Touareg, dans le camp où l'opération devait avoir lieu. " Quand je l'ai vu s'approcher, je n'ai d'abord pas compris que c'était un Français ", sourit-elle.
Pendant cinq mois et demi, elle a vécu la vie d'otage d'AQMI. Les changements de camps réguliers, avec sa couverture pour tout paquetage. Certains de ces camps étaient plus durs que d'autres, notamment lorsqu'il fallait s'y coucher sur un sol dur et pierreux. Dans les plus agréables, il y avait du sable, un semblant de confort dans un monde " spartiate ", comme choisit de le qualifier l'ex-otage, qui insiste : " Nous n'avons jamais été maltraités. "
Avant de la laisser s'en aller, Abou Zeid l'a convoquée pour une discussion, par le truchement du " traducteur ", déjà identifié par les précédents otages. Selon une bonne source qui l'a eu au téléphone lors des négociations, l'homme est un Mauritanien polyglotte dont le père occupait un poste dans la sécurité de l'ambassade des Etats-Unis à Nouakchott. Ce n'est pas la seule étrangeté de l'affaire.
Jean-Philippe Rémy

© Le Monde


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priffe 13 Dec 2011 10:56

The arrested kidnappers were shown on Mali TV, here are three of them -tuareg I would say¨
https://twitter.com/#!/PresidenceMali
https://p.twimg.com/Agi7Uj7CIAAQG9P.jpg:large
https://p.twimg.com/AgfoOCMCQAIlFib.jpg:large

CaBRita 14 Dec 2011 09:42

BBC News report:

BBC News - France's Verdon and Lazarevic kidnapping: Mali arrests

kirkley 16 Dec 2011 03:06

update from jeune afrique:

"Hamad Ali Ag Wadossène, Heiba Ag Acherif, Raida Ag Nani, Hassani Ould Abdallah : ce sont les noms des quatre personnes arrêtées par les autorités maliennes dans l'enquête sur le rapt de Philippe Verdon et Serge Lazarevic à Hombori le 24 novembre dernier. Retour sur une enquête et ses zones d'ombre."

[url=http://www.jeuneafrique.com/Article/ARTJAWEB20111214140857/france-mali-enlevement-islamismemali-comment-les-auteurs-presumes-du-rapt-de-verdon-et-lazarevic-ont-ete-arretes.html]Mali : comment les auteurs présumés du rapt de Verdon et Lazarevic ont été arrêtés | Jeuneafrique.com - le premier site d'information et d'actualit

priffe 20 Dec 2011 12:14

Life and times of Philippe Verdon
Mali : Philippe Verdon, intinéraire d'un aventurier malchanceux | Jeuneafrique
The article paints, perhaps unwittingly, the picture of someone who could well be involved with recruiting and organizing mercenaries.

Richard Washington 20 Mar 2013 09:20

Terrible news about Philippe Verdon:

"Al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM) told ANI that it killed Philippe Verdon on 10 March, in retaliation for France's intervention in Mali. "

BBC News - Philippe Verdon: French Mali hostage 'killed' by al-Qaeda

Chris Scott 20 Mar 2013 21:45

This source suggests Philippe Verdon was killed while trying to escape. Perhaps the French were tantalisingly close?

Who knows the truth but you'd think a 'retaliation / execution' spin plays better for AQIM, much as it did with M. Germaneau in 2010 (would most probably succumbed to ill health earlier).

priffe 21 Mar 2013 14:25

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/20/wo...beheading.html
They (jihadists) like to say "beheaded", but no beheading has actually been confirmed. If done for propaganda purposes, why not post it online, like was done in Iraq, Pakistan, Somalia?
Only poor Dyer's execution had a witness reporting, a fellow hostage, and he said Dyer was lead away and then there were gun shots heard. Shot and then beheaded? Germaneau and Verdon, I am with CS.
And only three hostages have been executed over ten years of kidnappings. All by Abou Zeid, who is now presumed to be dead.
Jihadists have a way of getting their propaganda spread through the media without analysis, whereas reports from more objective sources (let alone those from Washington et al) are heavily scrutinized.

Chris Scott 21 Mar 2013 15:44

Quote:

... spread through the media without analysis
I agree, especially when it comes to claiming responsibility for the latest atrocity which plays well for both sides.

Also, why choose to execute someone midway through a campaign and announce it over a week later with the lame 'retaliation for intervention' line?

Added: original press release to ani.mr threatens remaining hostages, a fact not widely reported.

Quote:

Dyer ... Shot and then beheaded?
That was my understanding (and a small mercy for him).

Richard Washington 22 Mar 2013 11:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Scott (Post 416242)
Also, why choose to execute someone midway through a campaign and announce it over a week later with the lame 'retaliation for intervention' line?

For many of the years since 2003 AQIM have had the benefit of being able to sit round a fire every evening for months/years at a time considering their next move. As we know, they have been shrewd, mostly, and have made very good decisions when seen from their perspective. Most times they have strategised such that history and events play into their hands. They've been in the right place to be left alone, they have dished out terror far and wide across the Sahara beyond what could be expected of their numbers and they have made enormous amounts of money in a region where poverty has long proven that livelihoods are utterly marginal. When it comes to issues like Libya, AQIM seems to have benefitted more than the Western powers that paid for it all.

But the last few months have been very different and they have finally met a match - one that was NEVER going to come from the shiftless Malian army. AQIM's various HQs have been under attack from arguably the best troops one could round up to engage with them. Some of that fighting would have been sustained, intense and very bloody. Amongst all of that sit the poor hostages. The extent to which they have been moved around, protected, used as human shields, forgotten about amongst the chaos is not known to us right now. But for once I imagine they have been a lower priority. There might even have been too many hostages for AQIM to handle given the conditions. So given all this, I am not surprised about the news regarding Mr Verdon - including the manner of his possible death and the way the news was broken. AQIM simply don't have the breathing space to do things their way right now. A simple phone call to a press agnecy will be a very risky undertaking for them now. I'm suprised we have any news from them at all.

priffe 21 Jun 2013 09:06

The remaining hostages may not be in Niger or SW Libya but rather in south Algeria

INFO OBS. Otages du Niger : "Ils sont en Algérie" - Le Nouvel Observateur

Richard Washington 23 Jun 2013 08:25

SW Libya, southern Algeria, N. Niger = a lot of uncertainty about safety of large parts of the Sahara

Chris Scott 23 Jun 2013 15:04

BBC News - Al-Qaeda says European hostages are alive

They mention 8, I make it 9.
  • 4 from Ariva ('1000 days')
  • 3 from Timbuktu (Nov 2011; Dutch, Swede, SA/Brit)
  • 1 survivor from Hombori, Nov 2011
  • and the Portuguese from Diema, Nov 2012. Maybe he is not with AQIM
I feel that if most are in south Alg as claimed, a solution may be easier to reach, if for no other reason than it would look bad for the Algies to tolerate having them there.

Ch

gvdaa 23 Jun 2013 16:48

Indeed . The Portguese-French guy seems to be in the hands of MUJAO. You forget to mention one of the guys kidnapped in Hombori (the other seems dead)


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