PAMIR highway in July
 

Hi all.

We will do again Barcelona - Ulaanbaatar but this time we want to include the Pamir highway.
Although our idea is to enjoy the trip, we are used to driving in harsh conditions and long distances if necessary.
We'll do the north route because we don't have many days.

- What state is the road in?
- How many stages could the Dusambe - Osh route be divided into?
- What accommodation options are there for a group of 8-10 riders?

Thanks in advance!!

With northern Route you mean the northern part from Dushanbe to Khaleikumb?

This is much more offroad than the southern part.

I think the northern route is slower than the southern route.

I did both routes.
Southern part from Dushanbe to Khaleikumb is easy doable in 1 day, northern route only if you start very early, and don't take to much rest. And you should not have an problem.
We did not make it in one day.

with 8 people, it is definitely harder to find accommodation, but should be possible.

I mean northern route Dushanbe-Alichur-Murghab by M41 road, not by the Wakhan Corridor.
So one stage maybe Dushanbe-Kalaikhum and Kalaikhum-Khorugh for next day?
And is doable Khorugh-Alichur in 1 day?
No problem for accomodation, we can stay in different homestay.
Thank you Klausmong bier

With northern route i mean Dushanbe to Khalaikumb

here in the picture red:
This route is 270km and mostly offroad, and small and narrow and has some tricky parts.
You should use a light weight bike.

The southern route ( green ) is much longer, But mostly asphalt and easy.
Only the road along the Panj river is bad asphalt, but still good to drive

From Dushanbe to Khaleikumb on the northern route with 8 people, I do not think you do it in 1 day.
Southern route is doable in 1 day


Khalaikumb to Khorog 1 day, and bad asphalt. Sometimes no asphalt

Khorog to Murghab on M41 1 day, and bad asphalt, sometimes gravel.


https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/8...924/0W7JFx.jpg

Pictures of the northern part:

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/8...924/UbNCOl.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/8...921/bsa9sn.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/8...923/sztJ67.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/8...922/b8sEDk.jpg

Ok thank you very much Klausmong.
And which one is more beautiful? Northen or southern route? Last year we did Altai - Uliastai with heavy bikes and we arrived around 14:00 stopping to take photos and with some section under construction

Altai - Uliastay is a very easy offroad stretch. In my opinion. done that 2 times already.

Northern part in Tajikistan is much harder.

Both routes are beautiful.
Northern is more mountains and valley.

Southern you drive longer along the Panj river.

If you will do the northern part because you think you are faster, than this is maybe wrong.
I think southern part is much faster.

I like the way from Altai to Uliastay.

2018:

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/8...921/MQprk8.jpg

And 2013:

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/8...0/203/cjoc.jpg

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/8...0/843/opur.jpg

Don't forget you will be going up to 4,655m altitude if you ride Ak-Baital, you should give yourself some time to acclimatise.

I'm not saying that the north option is faster because it's shorter. I mean we would like the north option more because many of us do off road often.

But as you well say, going in a group is not the same as in a solo trip or with a small group, so we'll choose the southern option, which is the most logical for this trip.

Thanks Klausmong!!

And good bike to travel, I rode this one in 2019:

I thought you want the northern route because it is faster.


Have Fun.

Yes Tomkat, but we enter Tajikistan by Samarcanda and we'll be going up from Dushanbe at 700m, Kalaikhum 1,200m, Khorugh 2,123m, Murghab 3,612m, Ak-Baital 4,655m, Sary-Tash 3,170m and then Osh.

Also we'll cross some mountain passes with more than 2,500m in Georgia or Turkey.

Do you think it's good acclimatization having end of stages in Kalaikhum, Khorugh, Murghab and Sary-Tash/Osh?

Thanks!!

I think that are good points to end a daytrip and continue.

Perfect, so these will be our 5 stages in Tajikistan.
Thank you very much Klausmong bier

I did it in 5 days from Denav/Usbekistan via Dushanbe to Osh but including the Wakan Valley

Day 1: Denav/Usb to Dushanbe to Khaleikum , northern route

Day 2: Khaleikum to Khorog

Day 3: Khorog to Langar, Wakan valley

Day 4: Langar to Murghab

Day 5: Murghab to Osh, bad weather, snow at the boarder and heavy rain until Osh

Motorcycle was an old Yamaha XT 600 Tenere, modelyear 1985.
It has been one of the most impressing trips ever done.

To do it in this time, specially day 1, you have to ride very long days.

I also do ride long days, but I would not want to do that in this time, not day 1.

The rest is doable, even when the last day is not fun.
Over 400km including a border in bad weather, respect.

I thought I wrote a reply to this yesterday but it seems to have gone. Anyhoo...

The normal advice is not to sleep more than 500m higher than the previous night. If you are young and fit you may be able to push that limit, but with a group of 8 you may have to be willing to travel at a rate everyone can accept. Don't underestimate altitude sickness, it can kill.

Hey Iawan,

Just one simple question : are you planning on going THIS summer ?

L.

Unfortunately I think he will be disappointed if he is.

Hi levelo.
This year I think that is not possible due to corona virus. I'm planning it for 2021

Thanks Tomkat.
500 meters of difference in altitude between departure and arrival is very little, in Spain that is normal within a radius of 100 km.
I think that 1000 m is an acceptable difference, and even more considering that we come from Barcelona and we will have crossed some 3000 m passes and many days of travel.

Hi Iawan,

Yes, way more reasonable to shoot for 2021.
I was already on my way to Central Asia but I turned back in mid-March.
Best of luck,

L.

The 500 meters/day figure is all about where you sleep, not what passes you drove over. You might be able to stretch this to 1000 meters, but doing so over a period of time will almost certainly lead to discomfort, possibly danger.

Normal advice is to increase sleeping altitude gradually, but to go higher during the day--"play high, sleep low." Driving over a 5000 meter pass from near sea level will not endanger your health; staying up there overnight definitely will. The lower end of the zone where you need to start paying attention is around 3000 meters--above that, at least be careful.

Hope that's helpful.

Mark

Ok, for example, We did it in 2018 going from Osh to Murghab in 1 day.

Big Mistake.
We started at 800 meters and went over Ak Baital with 4655 meters and slept in Murghab with 3700 meters.

We were 5 persons, and all of us had big problems with altitude sickness.

Dizzy, problems with breathing and so on.

I am the less sporty person of all, and I had less problems than the rest.
I was a smoker ( stoped 12 years ago ), have to much weight and so on.
The real sportspeople in our group had most problems ( funny, but it was this way )

Some of them could not sleep in Murghab ( I had a really good sleep ) and had to get up in the night....

And when you start in Chorough, it is less than 2000m, then you go up in 1 day to 3700m, that might be heavy for you, if you are not used to it.
And on the way you go up over 4300 meters several times !!

Yes, sportiness or being in good physical shape doesn't seem to matter. My first time at ~5500 meters I was a heavy smoker, but I still did better than my very fit, active, clean-living girlfriend.

The stages that we currently have defined gradually increase and there is not too much difference in height between the origin and the end of the stage:

1. Dushanbe 700m - Kalaikhum 1200m
2. Kalaikhum 1200m - Khorugh 2123m
3. Khorugh 2100m - Murghab 3600m
4. Murghab 3600m - Osh 1000m

The most complicated stage would be 3, but I think there is no other option to accommodate a group of 10 people.

Is there an end-of-stage option other than Murghab and at a lower altitude?

Thanks!!

Iawan that looks like a pretty fair plan. Coming down isn't a problem and naturally you don't want to limit your day's riding going up to a really short distance if you can avoid it. Your options could be a bit limited if you want to find a hotel for 10 for the night. Just be flexible and be prepared to turn back if anyone gets sick. Impress on them that they need to let the leader know if they do feel bad, it's no time to be a hero and really make a crisis.

I would put in a day more and drive Wakhan Valley.

And take a slow day and sleep in Eshkashem 2600 m.

I hope I am going 2021.

On my trip in South America (Bolivia, Peru) I took anti altitude sickness medicine.
You start it a week before you get at the high altitude, worked perfect for me.
If you stay, like in Bolivia/Peru, at high altitude for some time you can stop taking medicine after a week, you're body is accustomed.

I suppost to be in Switserland by now, on a 6 month trip to Pamir and back to the Netherlands, hope to make the journey in 2021 now.

Hello

I haven't been there yet, so no knowledge about the situation.
But I have done some travelling in the andes, so I'm just looking at the numbers of the altitude.


I think the highest risk of running into a problem, if you do at all, is the last leg.

Riding the bike on those roads at sealevel is not the same as a full day at around 3500-4500m, every breath you take has only few oxigen.

I had a breakdown with my bike at around 4500m in Peru, I spend at least two weeks at the altiplano around 4000m was well adjusted, but still was hardly able to push the bike on tarmac for a couple hundert meters.

For solo or just with a buddy, the risk is not to high that you run into troubles, but in a group of 10?
To avoid problems, I would go slower, 5 days instead of 4.
Have a day of rest at 3000-3500m, but since I haven't been there yet I, don't know where a good place is to do that.
Just don't rush in high altitude.

Have a plan B in case someone can't adjust quickly and needs to desend to a lower altitude or you have a breakdown or accident and some of your group have to stay longer at that altitude.

There is no easy way to figure out who of your groupe is more prone to the high altitude.

Just my two cent about the risk of the altitude above 3000m.
Have a great trip, someday it will again be possible.

sushi

Yeah it's usually the way majority go to give time to get used to altitude; it will be at least 3-4 days before you get to Khorug. Going clockwise will get you to Ak-Baital on 2nd day.

Make sure to drink enough fluid and bring something for stomach most of travelers get "Pamir disease" raging from severe stomach flu to mild diarrhea.. noone knows exactly why.

Yes, really hard day. Bad boarder guys, want money but didn't pay.
Deep mixture of mud and snow at the boarder Tadj-Kirgistan, washed away road before Sary Tash. But anyway, fun

Thank you very much for your advice Tomkat bier
We will adapt on the fly but starting from a logical roadmap. If we have to wait or go back, we will ... Our goal is to get to Ulaanbaatar from Barcelona and enjoy the trip

Best of luck levelo!!

I was considering that option too but we only have 40 days to complete the trip :(

Thank you very much sushi2831!!

If necessary we will take a day off between Khorough and Murghab, see on the go.

Regarding accommodation, we'll not have a problem if we have to separate into 2 or 3 groups, it usually happens in the interior of Kazakhstan or Russia, but there are always people willing to stay.
The important thing is to start the day rested, with good landscapes and AC / DC soundtrack :scooter:

Most of heat I can say has already been said, but I did this trip a couple of years ago. Altitude is a bitch and well worth preparing for by acclimatising. Fit people get struck with altitude as much as the unfit. Bikes with carburettors more so than people, so be prepared to take your time and go up in stages. Waking in the night, feeling like death is not usual but by the time its time to leave you won't notice it at all. You tend to ascend quickly by motorcycle so a few days in a high up town is best before hitting the high passes.

Money is easy. Take funds/Euro/dollars in large notes (honestly they prefer to change a 50 than a 10 and you can pay for almost anything and receive the change in local currency.

Basic guesthouses and homestays seem to be every where through the Stans. Usually for not much money you get a place to stay, dinner and breakfast and off you go.

We camped at Camp Lenin that was above 3000 meters and overlooked by the Pamir mountains. It was a cold and shit night but the views incredible and were woken by the brightest view or the Milky Way you have ever seen and the smell and sound of Yaks eating and snorting by the tent. I thought it was the snorers in the next tent but not......

The no mans land border crossing between Kyrghistan and Tadjihistan is quite and experience. A great off road road. Broken Brides no tarmac and a weirdness that you can't believe including RTW cyclists.......

We did the route by flying into and out of Osh!

Bests

Mike

Thank you very much Othermike bier

If all goes well, I hope doing the trip in August.
We will do a rest and acclimatization stage in Khorugh and we will go to Iskhasim to see the market and we will also stay another day in Murghab if necessary.
We will probably do the Wakhan Corridor, can someone tell me which places would be advisable to rest? Somewhere we should see?
Thanks !!

Number plate.
 

Klaus, I am curious, is that a couple of rubber bands holding your number plate on in the first image?
..I have seen too many foreign number plates in Russian biker clubhouses...
Kind regards
James

There is a hot springs there ($15 including bed, dinner and breakfast) but climb there worse than the rest of highway.

EDIT: name of hotspring Fatima

This are cable ties, to not lose the plates offroad.

Never had a problem that someone took my plates.
I dont even think about it. :mchappy:

I lost my passport and pack with documents in that 26km stretch.. had to go back and look for it. That pass is all red clay will be really slick when wet

People prefer riding loop counterclockwise, when you go clockwise from Osh you gain elevation fast.. iirc Osh is at 700m, Sir Tash at 3000 and passes at 4200-4600m. Could be hard and you don't know how your body react.

Sent from my Z981 using Tapatalk

Yes, I spotted this when planning my route. But the plan for other parts means I have to do it that way. After Osh I plan to spend a couple of days in Sary-Tash to acclimatise at 3200m, maybe visit Pik Lenin base camp as a day trip, then one day to camp at Karakul and next day Murghab. That takes me over the Ak-Baital pass in the last stretch but back down to 3600m to sleep. After that it's back downhill to Khorog and Kalaikhum.

There is literally nothing to do in Sary Tash; there are a couple stores, 2 gas stations, a restaurant with guesthouse.. If you want to get used to altitude go to Tash-Rabat.

in Iskhasim?

Bibi Fatima Hot Springs
https://maps.app.goo.gl/fp22zwKizcwjjsdJA

So true!
(But, Peak Lenin base camp is a fun ride from there.)

https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...370&fit=bounds


https://hosting.photobucket.com/albu...s/DSCN0146.jpg

................shu

2018 you couldn't go to the Ischkoschim market anymore. I don't know, if they have made it possible again. However, you could apply for an Afghan visa to enter Wakhan corridor. It is quite expensive though.

It was closed in Sep 2019 but I am not sure if it were because it was closed for good, because of situation with insurgence or simply day of the week. I didn't bother to ask at checkpoint it was the last thing on my mind; it was snowing 3 days later when we woke up in Sary-Tash and that red clay stretch at Kyzyl-Art up to TJ border station and down into 26km noman land to KZ could be iffy if gets snow or wet.