R1200R or F650Dakar for Mongolia two-up
 

Hi,

My wife and I are planning to go to Mongolia this summer. We are an experienced couple riding together on one bike.

After decades of riding through almost whole Europe and North Africa, during the last two years we are gradually discovering Asia. Last year we did a trip through Turkey, Iran, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, and back through Kazakhstan and Russia. The year before we did Ukraine, south Russia, west Kazakhstan, Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaijan.

We are travelling on the road bike, BMW R1200R, which did fine on every kind of road we travelled, and occasional off road/bad road parts were also ok.
By off road/bad road I mean parts like Georgian Military Highway, bad parts of Karakum Highway in Turkmenistan, road from Tyup in Kyrgystan to Kegen in Kazakhstan, the road to the Charyn Canyon, streches of bad roads in Kazakhstan, and stuff like that. Basically, we never had to cover distances longer than 50-100, mostly 150 kms of unpaved road. I do not like off road particularly, but I can live with it up to a point, and we managed it, so did the bike.

From what we can hear and read, Mongolia is quite a different story. Hundreds, maybe thousands of kms of unpaved roads and paths are waiting for us.

Can any of you who have been in Mongolia by motorcycle give me an advice whether is wiser to go to Mongolia on the relatively heavy road bike which we are used to, which is very comfortable for two people, easily carries all of our luggage, have enough comfort and power to easily eat the distance between Croatia and Mongolia and back, or should I start to prepare my old BMW F650GS Dakar for the trip?

If I was going alone, I would take the Dakar without thinking about it, but for two people (used to the comfort of big bike) the Dakar is very cramped and uncomfortable.

I know how to fix bikes, and maintaining or repairing most of the stuff that might broke on either bike should not be a problem, so that is not an issue.

Also, I am not the world's best or the world's worst rider. Mature enough, with almost forty years and close to a million kms experience, but without any formal off road training. Never needed it, and allways managed to go with the bike where I wanted. If I see something that looks too difficult, there is usually a way around it.

How shall the R1200R be difficult to ride two up in Mongolia? If somebody tells me that is an insane thought, we will squeeze ourselves on 650 and thump all the way through Russia so we can more easy travel through Mongolia.

I am thinking about taking the south route, which is supposed to be the least difficult.

And, we allways travel alone... should we make an exception this time and look for some company for this Mongolian trip?

Thanks, Boris

Can not give you advice on which bike to ride, just month ago I've reed RR where one guy from Ukrain two years ago crossed Siberia around Baikal and Mongolia on Yamaha R1. Only motorcycle technical upgrades where semi-offroad tires and luggage racks.

Hi Boris,
i will go through Mongolia this summer and i take a BMW G650XChallenge, because the most roads in Mongolia are not only unpaved, they are mostly simple tracks on the Steppe.
As far as i had heard an read, going there with a big Bike is not really funny and with a pillon maybe double bad.
Look at this link: The rolling Hobo there you can see a little about mongolian roads.
At least my oppinon ist to do Mongolia on two light Bikes, maybe the 650 Dakar, to get as much fun as possible.
Lighter would be better, so if you will do Mongolia, then not the mighty behemoth R1200R.
Maybe we will met you at UB in the Oasis beer

Going 2 up on any bike in Mongolia isn't going to be fun. You'll see plenty of locals doing it on those light local chinese bikes (not sure on the displacement of those but they're light) but not sure how comfortable it'll be. Then again, given the surface, it's not going to be a walk in the park comfort wise anyway.

I typically say lighter is better, but I'm not sure there is a right or wrong answer.

You could try riding laps through a paddock before you leave. Mongolia is pretty much one great paddock.

I think it is possible on the southern route.

But for sure its no fun and hard work

It depends on the driver

klausmong1

When you say possible on the southern route, do you mean possible with the R1200R, or possible with the F650Dakar and impossible with the big bike?

From your experience, how long should it take to get from the western Russian/Mongolian border crossing to UB, taking the least difficult (I guess the southern) route?

Another thing, is it realistic (along the route in Mongolia) to expect to find a place to sleep every night, like a gastinitsa, yurt/ger, a homestay or any kind of bed and roof for the night, or should we pack camping gear as well? We know that in Russia/Kaz/Kyrg/Uzb a tent is not necessary, we never had a problem to find some kind of accomodation.

Thanks for answering.

Hello

The southern route has a lot of new paved parts BUT still long stretches of the old "road" made of natural soil, gravel, stones, corrugations and SAND.

Have a look on YouTube and pictures on GoogleEarth.

Doable with a big bike and two people?
Only YOU know what your abilities are.
I met people who dit it and solo riders who ended up on a truck.

Anyway Mongolia is something you will not forget so easily.

sushi

It is possible with a 1200R, but as sushi mentioned, only you know, it depends on the driver.
And as there is a lot of corrugation, it will not be fun for the sozia, but on neither bike.

I would estimate 7-10 days to UB.

And Hotels or Camps just in cities.
Like Olgii, Khovd, Altai.....

I would take camping gear, just in case.
First, what do you do when you have to stop and wait fore some reason?
And second, thats what it is about Mongolia, camping in the landscape is maybe the thing you never forget....

it seems, that you are german speaking, have a look on my homepage, you have pictures and videos from the paths there
Klaus Reisepage - AKTUELLES / NEWS 2015

It is possible with 1200GS and two up. Even northern route. When i was in Mongolia 2010 there was two germans with old, if i remember correctly BMW R80 riding two up. Ofcourse then we had really good weather and all unpaved roads were dry. If it shoud have been raining all the time it would have been certainly harder.

I have ridden quite many of same routes as you excect Karakorum and i could say that all roads you have ridden are permanent roads. In Mongolia most of the roads expecially in eastern part are temporary roads formed when people ride between villages in grass land. There are some corrugated gravel roads. However i can easily say that Mongolia has had worst roads i have ridden in (Russia,Estonia, Kazakstan, Georgia, Kyrgyzstan, Tadjikistan, Uzbekistan, Mongolia). I dont however consider it as offroad riding as i see it more like riding in forest in old, forgotten roads etc like people have done in few stories.

And yes i agree with Sushi. Ultimately it is up to rider skil land how confortable he is riding big bike in bad road which can include loose sand, mud and grass. If rider feels riding in gravel challenging there is two option. Develop riding skills that it feels as natural and easy as riding in asphalt or then choose some other option or ride just paved roads in Mongolia. I would like to think if i look original question maker experience that he will do fine with two up and GS1200.

Yes, R1200GS might be the best compromise for this trip. However, we do not have it. As I neither can or want to buy another bike, we'll just have to use one of these two that we have. At the moment I am inclining towards GS650Dakar. We did a couple weekend rides on it before, and though it did ok, it is inferior to R1200R in every aspect, expect weight,. And that, together with longer suspension, big front wheel and higher ground clearance really matters this time.

If only Mongolia is closer to us...then I would not have any doubt about the bike. This way it is the countless kms that are ahead of us before we actually reach the unpaved parts, where the lighter bike is going to be an advantage, is what is bothering me. If only Scottie could beam us to the Mongolian border :-)

Klaus, ja, Ich spreche auch Deutsch, schoene Bilder und Videos, und noch bessere Reisen ;-), wir sind nicht zu weit entfernt voneinander...vielleicht einmal ein Bier...

you can rent DR 650s in Ulanbaatar

I also met a New Zealand Couple on a BMW R100GS 2up


Fahrer1:
OK, lets have some beer!

bier

How do you figure? I would argue the opposite. That thing to me seems designed with the European motorways and back roads in mind. Certainly not Mongolian conditions

I did it 2 up on a R100GS PD, was not easy, especially on corrugated where driving anything under 70km/h is killing you and the bike.
My GS suffered from this trip, and it's a no so bad off road bike to drive 2 up. I would really recommend you NOT to take the 1200R, but the 650

Zimi, thanks for your first-hand advice. So, you did it with a pillion. Any more thoughts you could share, regarding any aspect specific to the Mongolian part of the trip? In 1981 my first BMW was a then brand new R80G/S, a predecessor of your bike, so I know very well its capabilities. F650Dakar has many similarities with those bikes, regardless of chain drive and a cylinder less. But we will have to overload the poor thing. Just the weight of my wife and me in full gear is close to the load limit. Then comes the luggage... Some suspension upgrades are in sight...

Klaus, I'll PM you when I go in your direction, please do the same.

Tmotten, I did not imply that 1200GS is "the" bike for this purpose, just meant that it is half-way between the bikes that I have. I personally do not think much of big GS, good bikes, but not that good, and there is one around every corner... For every purpose, except perhaps a two-up trip to Mongolia, I would rather ride my R1200R.

If you take the R you would need to travel very slow which will be very tiring. It's not too late to send the Mrs to riding school and get 2 small trail bikes.

Just I would suggest you to put a stronger rear spring and maybe in the front as well, be most important is the back, because you will have a lot of weight. Have everything you need with you to repair a puncture.

take a less luggage as possible. I had no cooking gear, you can eat everywhere there are gers. You can camp, but again, there are gers along the way, so it's not a must. Of 3 weeks, I camped only 3-4 nights. Not bad to make the local economy work a little bit.

Otherwise, I can tell you that you are about to go in the most beautiful country I have ever been!

Enjoy!!

Zimi

Neither... XT660Z I reckon.

Just to be clean, you can travel all teh way accross Mongolia on any many different bikes. I have seen plenty to GS 1200, I know a couple that crossed the whole Mongolia 2 up on a GSA with 40kg orf luggage without any problems, I've seen some F800GS performing perfectly, guys with Africa Twin, last year a German guy with a super overloaded Transalp...

I did it with a R100GS PD, 2up. So it depend on your skills, and on the preparation of the bike as well.

Most important! Suspension!!!!!!!!! Don't save bucks on a harder spring, you will regret it, especially when travelling 2 up.

The Tenere 660Z is not lighter than then F650GS. I dont see a big advantage here in favour of the Tenere. This bike has quite crappy suspension from stock.

I would do it again with my 640 Adventure, what a blast it would be, but solo only.

To travel 2 up, you need some comfort, otherwise your wife gonna hate you!

Yeah, but this guy did not make it, he turned around on the southern route and had some Mongolian guy who rode the bike back for him !!!!!

If you mean this guy :
http://www.transalpfahrer.de/46701.html

That is a good point !!!!

Okay, if you have plenty of cash in the bank, the 1200 will do it. Any bike can do anything if you're prepared to spend money to make it.

I know a few people who have done big two up off road based trips on the tenere for realistic money for most folk...

tmotten:

I did try to make my Mrs. ride her own bike. That was almost thirty years ago. Since then she became one of best riders, but only at the rear seat.

zimi:

Your comments make me want to start the trip immediately. We enjoyed Causasus and Tian Shan, and can't wait to see the Altai.

I am going to upgrade the suspension, put the new clutch, chain and sprockets, wheel, steering head and rear swingarm bearings, waterpump seals and replace everything that is even a little bit worn. Bike has now a bit less than 40000 kms.

Touring Ted:

I am sure that XTZ is a very fine bike, it is just that I am riding BMWs since 1981, and I am quite familiar with them, and I know the weak points and how to fix them. Even better, I know how to prep the bike so everything should run smoothly for the duration of the trip. If something goes wrong it is more likely going to be me than the bike :-)

Klausmong:

I hope that we would not have to turn back like the guy you are referring to, but if that eventually happens... it is not the end of the world. I allways see our home as the final destination of any trip...


Just a few pics, Georgia, Morocco, Kazakhstan, and a road from Ukraine. That road was really bad.The last pic is Dakar at the Croatian coast.

I know that was nothing compared to Mongolia, but I hope that F650Dakar will be a more suitable tool for that trip.

We will do what we can to live another dream.

So what bike are you taking ? An 80s BMW is a fine bike., in it's own way. But, you can't compare the brand from then to now as its like comparing steel to plastic, hands on engineering to Laptop users without bike licences and enthusiasts to accountants.

Touring Ted:


I'll take the Dakar, it seems definitely more suitable than R1200R. I have enough time to do the necessary upgrades, and comfortwise we'll probably get used to less space in a few days.

By the way, I know that the last really well made BMWs were made in WESTERN Germany, before The Wall fell.

Still, I have faith in my Dakar and its Rotax-made engine. Water pump is practically the only regular weak point.

I replaced mine when I bought the bike, some 25000 kms ago, and it is still ok. Nevertheless I will replace it again before the trip and take another repair set with us, together with GS-911, fork seals, filters, spark plug and a handfull of screws, nuts, chain links and a duckt tape. That will have to be enough spare parts.

I hope.

Have a look on my blog. I've summarized the most critical things. Bring spare subframe bolts. No need for gotten deals if your girls are in good shape. Just protect then with neoprene gaiters. Aussie made uni filters are awesome. Just make sure it's the Aussie one. There's an American one too which is not the same. With a fresh spark plug you won't need a spare but it won't hurt

Hi Boris!
Good choice I think.. Suspension travel will be more inportant than hp or Nm...
Just the comfort. But i met ppl who never camped, i would however take the lightest 2ppl tent just in case. Oh, and gear down the front sprocket, especially 2 up.
Enjoy the trip and hope to meet you again!
Cheers
A.

Hi Antonio :-)

Nice to hear from you. I wanted to keep you as a hidden joker for final questions, but you saw this topic before I emailed you. We had nice time on the road together with you. It is a pity that we passed by you in Iran, but those days in Uzb were very nice. As you can see, it looks like we will be able to get enough weeks this summer for another Asian ride, and Iceland will have to wait. Again.

Best regards,

Boris

Any bike can make it. This monstrosity crossed Mongolia in 2012

http://www.thebrightstuff.com/summer...hen%20sink.jpg

His 2 mates had to do a lot of pushing along the south route, apparently.

Assuming you're a competent rider, for 2 up I would take the bigger bike. Riding a 650 single 2 up is possible, but it depends on your and your wife's dimensions and tolerance of discomfort. And again your riding ability and the weather.

Southern route will be fine on a road bike. Its now about 80% asphalt and rising ... 2000 km, most on asphalt .... you could knock that off in 3 days.

Will be nowhere near as interesting as riding cross country, but hey, thats not what the man asked. He didnt want an interesting route, he asked for the easiest.

Me and my wife, also plan drive through Mongolia 2up and southern road. Regarding more interesting road- I guess it will be a lot of impressions for us since we never been in Mongolia before.
For to make excellent adventure is not necessary bent rims or broken motorcycle frame in middle of nowhere, specially if you are responsible for your passenger and have time frame. ( But no one is secured from that:rofl:)

That's depressing. Good for the country though.

The Dakar will make it. As long as you know ALL it's weaknesses and prepare in advance for them.

3 days? Walter, I think you underestimated it, or you are joking.
We are not all almost professional rally style riders as you are :-)

Asphalt is rising, yes, but it is still plenty of washboard parts and I think on a road bike...yes, maybe doable, but really not a good idea.

fahrer1: leave the big and heavy road bike home, search for travel reports on this site and on advrider, and enjoy Mongolia riding the 650.

colebatch:

I have read all your RR's and admired your adventures. However, that kind of riding is not my cup of tea, so I am sure that the southern route is going to be very special for us. If I was a single rider I might have had preferencies closer to yours, but with the woman of my life behind me I try to keep the stress and the risk as low as possible. Riding motorcycles anywhere is a risky bussiness allready, so I hope for as much paved road as possible. In that light I am very happy for your information that roughly 80% of the southern route is paved. I believe that we'll manage the other 20%.

Still, Magadan calls, and if the road improves before we get too old we will try that one as well.

Thank you for being an inspiration for many of us.


Eshark:

Nice to hear that there are more couples like us. I agree with everything you said. It is not necessary to go to the extremes to have an adventure.
Riding two up, especially with someone very important, puts things in a different perspective than when you are riding alone. Not just that it is more difficult to ride with the passenger but it also increases the responsibility. You just do not do the same things when you are alone and when you are not. At least I don't. At home, when I ride alone or with a group of fellow motorcyclists I still sometime throw sparks with footpegs, but when my wife or daughter are with me I am the slowest and most carefull rider. And a much slower one when we are far away from home. As I said before, our final destination of any trip is our home.

tmotten:

Good for the country, and for the milder riders :-)


Touring Ted:

I hope that the Dakar will make it. I really know a bit about BMWs. I maintain about thirty BMWs from our local Moto Club, and singles are really doing well. There are a few with 100000 kms, and I never had to change a shim. Just water pumps, a clutch and fork seals occasionaly, and a steering head/wheel bearings here and there, the rest is just regular maintenance.


crisidsto:

Yep, the 650 it is. We'll save the R for the next trip. And, we plan at least a week to get from the border to UB. Then two days there, and back to Russia.


We would like to catch a train from Irkutsk to Moscow, to save some time on the way back. Any info on that subject? Is it realistic to just come to the train station, bribe somebody if neccesary to put the bike on the same train with us, and to be in Moscow in a couple of days? Language is not a problem. We do not actually speak Russian, but Croatian, being a Slavic language, is similar enough so we understand quite a lot, and now we have additional experience from the past two years of travelling through Russia.

I don't think you need to wait for the road to Magadan to improve; I rode the new federal road in 2011 and it can be ridden on any form of motorcycle. While most of it is unpaved, much of the route is graded gravel and it is actually better than a lot of the pavement in Russia. There are certainly a few ungraded/sandy sections and some messy construction zones, but that's it.

Regarding taking a train from Irkutsk--there are several threads here and on ADV on the topic, so I would take a look.

I think it is not realistic.

At least not to save time.
In 2013 Seb did it in the Train from Irkutsk to Novosibirsk.
And he wrote a "how to do " for that.
I Have to look to find it and set the link.

I Met Seb in UB at the Oasis and he told me about the train and I was really thinking about it to save time.
But usually your bike is not in the same train to Moscow, you have to wait there a few days to pick it up, I decided not to go by train and ride the bike.
It does not take more time and it is even cheaper ( when you calculate the hotel im Moscow )

So, here is the link

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...re-train-71580

Yes, train business is more or less unpredictable, because you going passenger carts but your bike will be in cargo cart. and delay of cargo happens to be even over the week. And Moscow- huge expensive city.
Russians do it different, there is plenty of empty trucks driving west direction and it's cheaper than train.
Local shipping companies can arrange with them to deliver your bike. Only risks are if truck get in accident or brake down.
But you need to know shipping date some days before.

Not really. You just avoid it like the plague if actually want off road adventure. There are thousands of tracks in Mongolia that will never be asphalted. But the main routes across the country .... they are pretty much history.:nuke:

Klausmong is probably right that you don't save much time shipping from Irkutsk--it is 3-4 days on the train, plus whatever time it takes you to embark/disembark the bike. Plus sitting on the train is pretty boring.

But it still might be worth putting the bike on a train and flying to Moscow, because IMHO the ride between Irkutsk and Moscow is a very tedious ride of several days, and you can instead spend this time in Moscow, which is a fun place to visit.

Hi,
I did the Southern part of Mongolia (Gobi desert and vicinity) last summer onboard a Chinese made bike. I met a German guy on GSA and had opportunity to ride together. IMHO lighter better. So, I would recommend your F650GS though it cramps for the pillion.
Bring along your tent. If camp is intended dont camp anywhere close to restaurant/shop/meeting places or the like. Some rowdy drinkers may just want to disturb you close-by. Camp where not easily seen and locked your bike.
Safe ride

Amzah

Does anyone mind if I ask a different (but related) question about Mongolian road conditions?

I broke my fibula about two weeks ago, falling awkwardly when I hit an unexpected patch of deep sand on a gravel road in near the Russian border with Latvia. I'm back in the UK now, while my husband continues with our "Inagh to China Motorcycle Ride". The leg is already healing and I am walking with an orthopaedic boot, rather than a plaster cast. My bike has been left in Moscow, and I intend to go back to get it in July.

Since we don't like being apart, the hope is the John will be able to ship his bike from Tianjin with the rest of the GlobeBusters group and fly home from Beijing. However, GlobeBusters have warned us that it may be difficult at this stage to get the permit changed for his bike to exit at Tianjin, rather than the Mongolian border, which was our original intention. In other words, John may have no option but to exit China at Erinhot.

If this happens, GlobeBusters threw out the idea that, if my leg was healed, I might join John in Ulanbaatar and ride back with him - an idea that really appeals to both of us. However, a Russian friend has warned me off riding across Mongolia. I ride a BMW R1150GS and he says it will not be safe for me with a recently-healed leg. We had thought to take the southern route and 80% tarmac sounds good to me. What about the other 20%? Do you think my Russian friend is right to put me off?

BTW John is riding a Triumph Tiger 1050 with upgraded suspension. The 1150's suspension has not been upgraded.

If necessary, John can ship his bike and fly home from Ulanbaatar. This was supposed to be the trip of a lifetime, but would we be better to leave Mongolia for another year?

Off Road in Mongolia
 

Most of the unpaved roads are hard packed and dusty, but can get quite rutted in many places from trucks and a like...
Rain can be an issue hiding BIG holes so tread with caution in rain etc.

If you're riding within your limits and sticking to the beaten track then you should be ok on either bike, but would recommend fitting some all terrain tyres and use a lower pressure etc for added grip on loose but of cos you'll loose stability on higher speed stuff..

As mentioned camp away from town centers or you'll probably get a few rude awakenings, but essentially you'll be fine.

For the R1200R you could swap out the wheels for some spoked GS ones and get yourself some proper off road tyres not too costly and would easy to sell on after the trip.

Here to help should you need it .. happy travels.. :scooter:

SERIOUSLY???
You say its 80% asphalt???..its NOT! Will be fine on a road bike??..you knock that off on 3 days??? Bullshit! I was there 3 weeks ago..

Tsagaannur-Khovd is "meaby" drivable with streetbike,if you drive slowly, but not recommended.
Khovd- Altay road is BAD right now because of raining, and no change to ride there with streetbike...shaking like hell.
Altay-Bayankhongor "Roads" are little bit better but with streetbike,hell no.
There is river crossing in Bayankhongor, depth something like 60cm.
It took 4 days from west border to Ulan Batar, and i drove 10-12hrs/ day. Bike is kawasaki kle 500 ( dryweight 175kg)

Well I think that now, when we are back home, it is a polite thing to say thank you to everyone that was kind enough to share their experience.

We came back from the trip last week. A series of unfortunate events costed us a lot of time, so we did not go into Mongolia. We toured the Altai, and went to the Lake Baikal. We could have done that on R1200R.

Two days before our planned departure I broke my pinky toe, so we had to postpone the start for a few days, untill I could put my boots on. Then we had rain for every day from home untill Barnaul, so we needed seventeen days, instead of fourteen as planned. In Barnaul I have noticed a leak in the radiator. One radiator was avalable in Moscow, so we lost another week waiting in Barnaul untill it came.

We had to return home as scheduled, so we decided not to take a risk of losing additional time in Mongolia. Even this way we needed 48 days for the trip instead of 40-45 that we planned

Except the hole in the radiator, bike did not like the Russian fuel, and it started to surge and "hick-up" after Irkutsk. Changing all the filters and cleaning the injector did help, but it is still not 100% ok, so I have to drain and clean the fuel tank. Also, the chain shield broke, the front tyre was damaged, and had to be changed. Some bolts and nuts loosened from the vibrations, the most serious one was the one holding the engine to the frame at the rear/bottom. I guess not so bad for a 19000 km trip with a seriously overloaded bike.

I guess that after many years of problem-free travelling, one trip with some problems is not so bad.

Thanks again to everyone who gave us advice, and special Hi to Carol and Ken who were our eyes and ears in Mongolia.