Route planning Mongolia/ Siberia 2012
 

Hi there,

As part of my planning for a proposed trip to Mongolia and Siberia next summer, I’ve drawn the following sketch.


http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/p...oliaplanv2.jpg

Sketch is very definitely not to scale. Distances in red are in km and approximate and calculated using Garmin Mapsource and OSM.

My timing: about 6 weeks in July/August 2012, start/finish Ulaan Bataar

Freight bike in and out of Ulaan Bataar from Germany. I will transport bike in my van from England at about Easter 2012. (Space in my van for 1 more small bike… Anyone interested?)

Bike: Suzuki DRZ400e with 27 litre tank and soft luggage and knobbly tyres. Assuming I don’t have any blond moments, I know how to ride it pretty well off-pavement.

My general questions are
1. What are the road conditions/obstacles like away from the paved highways?

2. How long does each dirt route take/ how technical is the riding on a particular route? I appreciate one person’s “mildly interesting” is somebody else’s “hardcore” and some people ride 12 hour days non-stop while others fall out of bed at 10am and are in the bar by 2pm.

3. How much other traffic is there on each dirt route, in case a solo rider (me: if I can’t find any riding buddies…) has a mechanical problem or if an obstacle needs overcoming?

A 6 week itinerary I thought could be:
2 weeks in Mongolia > then Irkutsk > western BAM from Bratsk to Tynda > Yakutsk > into and out of Magadan, one way via the New Federal Road, the other via the Old Summer Road > Yakutsk to Lensk via the Vilyuisky Trakt > barge to Kirensk >Irkutsk > back to UB

Walter of Sibirsky Extreme is the trailblazer for all of us on things Siberia/Mongolia: I’m merely trying to follow in his tyre tracks…

Here’s what I’ve gleaned already. It may be wrong/inaccurate. Please feel free to comment on/correct my information.

Bratsk to Tynda via western BAM: I believe Walter/Tony/Terry rode this east to west in 6 or 7 days. The western part is easy and smooth and gets more challenging heading closer to Tynda(?)

Tynda to Yakutsk: dusty boring truck road.

New Federal Road to Magadan: Dusty, trucks go down there, you can do it on a Harley
Old Summer Road to Magadan: The distinction between the 2 is described by Chief Siberia Guru Walter at ADVrider - View Single Post - Siberian Extreme 2010 - Back for More Sections 7 and 8 should not be ridden solo. I really want ride these. I believe Walter and Tony rode Yakutsk to Magadan via section 7 and 8 in 3 days.

Yakutsk to Lensk via the Vilyuisky Trakt : Don’t know

Lensk to Kirensk by barge: How long is the boat trip and how frequently does the barge run?

Kirensk to BAM turnoff: Don’t know

UB to Ereersav/Solovyevsk border: I believe the first part out of UB is paved and then the bit to the border is smooth sandy twintrack based on a picture Walter showed me.

Tashanta - Tsagaannuur Border to UB: 2100km via Dan and Ed’s route at Mongolia GPS Track | Brighton 2 Siberia took 6 days, based on the date stamp on their start/end waypoints.

So guys, lots of questions, but I’ve made a start. If you’ve ridden some or all of these (Mr C, Tony, Jenabusa, Ed, Dan, Tom, Doug, Rob, Dafne, anyone else…?) have you got any input?

I've read a lot of Walter’s Ride Reports on ADVrider, but they run to 100s of pages and I keep getting distracted by the pictures of fauna and flora (or was it Svetlana and Ivana…:innocent:) so struggled to gather a lot of road information.

All tips gratefully received,

Cheers
Chris

I can't help you much but will be keeping an eye on this thread as it'll be helping me plan for my own trip in Mongolia bier

Just a small addition...
 

Tashanta - Tsagaannuur Border to UB
Having done this route with Dan I would have reservations about recommending it. It's just so...boring. The route is very flat and there's not a lot of variation in it. Doing it because it is quick or fits the bill in terms of time only is not a recipe for satisfaction. If you have a big 'Dakar' style bike and love ripping across the open plains at breakneck speed then the southern route is fine but I would take a different route next time:

This map covers the more popular routes and from talking to people when we were in Mongolia this summer I would have changed our route slightly.

Starting from Russia in the west I would take the northern route and then south at the first turning on the map here (past the airfield). I would then have a choice of heading east towards Ulanbaatur or down to the southern route and then east to UB. Or, I believe there are a number of fun combination routes that join the middle easterly route cutting down to the southern route (not shown on this map). But you get the idea. Just remember that going to see anything in Mongolia can involve a day or two of blasting long distances across wide open landscapes just to get there which uses up your knobbly tyres and can be pretty tiring.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6162/...8208ff7b_z.jpg

Yes, southern route across Mongolia is dull.

I can put together a mongolian route for you mate ... meet me for a beer and bring a mongolia map and a flouro pen.

As for Kirensk, very few boats stop there any more. Basically you go from Ust Kut to Lensk on a barge or on a boat. The ride from Lensk to Yaklutsk is a nice one, great people, pretty interesting scenery, and the only technical riding is about 10 miles of sand on the western edge of Vilyuisk. Lensk to Yakutsk plan for 4 days. Its about 3 days on the barge, and you may have a day or two wait in Ust Kut for a boat.

Western BAM you pretty much got right. Ed and Dan also did that this summer but we are still waiting on that blog, as we speak! An Austrian guy rode it solo this year and he had very limited off road experience before hand. Weather seemed very good this year in Siberia so this road was pretty comfy as it turned out with a few spectacular challenges to steel the nerves along the way. So its definitely an interesting possibility. There is not a huge amount of traffic at all after Taksimo, but you do always have the railway, which is rarely more than a few hundred yards away from the road.

UB to the Eastern mongolian border ... is in 3 prts. Asphalt for the first 300 km to Ondoorhaan, then about 300 km of fast dirt road / track to Choibalsan, then about 300 km of double track piste to the border. There is nothing awe-inspiring about this route, but it beats asphalt back up from UB into Russia if you are planning on heading east anyway, and it is a very rarely visited section of Mongolia. I guess it would be hard to do it if you were doing either the vilyuisky trakt or the western BAM to Yakutsk ... as you need to start those further east. If you were planning Yakutsk via Skovorodino, then I would wholeheartedly recommend this variation.

Finally, for video footage of the BAM, Vilyuisky Trakt and federal version of the Road of Bones, may I say the Sibirsky Extreme DVD is jam packed with motorcycling information and video footage of the region! ;)

Sadly it's not available on Youtube. :oops2: But it's a much watch for the Siberia areas.

But if you want to have a look at what the southern route is like have a squiz at this channel.

It's not super adventurous, but if you're new to all that it's pretty magical.

tmotten's Channel - YouTube

Chris.
Quick comments-
1. Worth adding to your planning chart is the route from Irkutsk north/north west to Zhigalavo then the new good graded dirt track north to join the main road, south of where you put "turnoff".
2. The River Lena ferry/barge takes a day or so longer going up stream (south from Lensk) because of currents/flow.
3. As said, we got the ferry/barge at Ust Kut which is on the main east/west road southwest of Kirensk.
4. The short section going north to Tynda is unpaved but good graded gravel.

TMottem
Such quantity and quality of information has to be paid for!
And you can get it here in PAL or NTSC http://www.adventure-spec.com/defaul...eme-dvd-1.html
However for the frugal traveller - a free taster http://vimeo.com/26926476

I was just messing with him Tony. Alls good. jeiger

There sure is a big difference between DIY and pro editing. The trailer looks heaps good.

Thanks for these great bits of information. I've updated the sketch below. Will post more later on.

http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/p...ctober2011.jpg

Many thanks
Chris

The DVD is on the wife's shopping list of Christmas presents for me. Having watched clips of it at the Ripley meet, I'm sure it will be good entertainment and a useful resource for information.

Maybe Walter can sell it on Amazon too and we can all review it :innocent::funmeteryes::cool4:

Viva Chrispysprite!:donatello:

You must be on commission Tony. :Beach:

Now, I like a laugh as much as the next guy
BUT
'commission'? - me? - from him?
It's hard enough to get a second pint out of him.....

I'm also going to follow along for when I do that part of my trip.

-Dave

Yes me to. Subscribed :cool4:

Only difference is we will be on 4 wheels and a single vehicle.

G

Wow, "subscribers" to a thread that's not an Advrider-RideReport. Feel free to also share/contribute your knowledge/research.

Thanks
Chris

My research does not really extend much past reading about what Walter and Tony have been up to.

I think our plan is to head to Irkutsk then on to the Western BAM and north from Tynda to Yakutsk. From there we will go to Magadan hopefully via the summer road.

If it all plans out we should have all of August and September to explore the area (and chill out! hopefully not literally :freezing: )

Our Land Rover may be a bit battered by then so we will see how that is.

Tony - Do you have anymore info on that gravel road from Irkutsk? I couldn't see it on OSM and couldn't trace it on GE. It would help cut off that corner to Bratsk unless you think it is worth the visit? even that section of the BAM?

Also, having ridden these roads what would be your views on taking a well equipped Land Rover across the BAM and ROB? I know some people from the UK were mean't to try it this year but got delayed, not sure where they are now, but its a bit late in the year for them to try anything now.

G

The Zhigalavo Road (also by that name on the map) is on OSM. Maybe you need to set it on the highest magnification in Mapsource and look at it at less than 500 meter zoom? I added it to the updated sketch in post number 8.

I'm also interested in your opinion of the surmountability of the "obstacles" (rivers/mudholes) on a lightweight dirtbike (160 kg incl fuel and luggage) rather than a fat Landy :frown:) on the Old Summer Road to Magadan. Clearly on those sections I won't ride solo.

cheers
Chris

Got it, my apologies. I was scanning to close to Baikal. viewing online. Not downloaded it yet as I want to wait till nearer our departure so its more upto date. Road Looks like a winner :D

G

Also subscribed, for the Mongolia stuff anyway.

I don't recall if Walter or Tony mentioned such a place, but we were on the RoB with a guy from Tynda, and he said that along the BAM west of Tynda there is a place with giant sand dunes--has anyone heard of this/been there?

There were sand dunes and pine trees (not your normal Siberian ones but more like the darker Scots Pines) east of Taksimo. The 'road' was quite sandy for 100km or so but quite firm, no doubt because of recent heavy rain which got us looping round pools all the way.
Looking around the surrounding terrain I would describe it as more 'grown over sandy dunes' sooner than giant dunes, like on Walter's latest ride!

I recall sand pits/quarrys immediately east of town - where we fortunately met a most helpful lady who not only escorted us in finding somewhere to sleep but also collected us next day and ferried us about town to find repairers for bikes, boots and replacement batteries for my remote alarm immobiliser, and spare, that failed and left my bike immobilised that very morning!

EDIT - I have just recalled Michael Rej enjoying them on his 'BAM curtailed" SyberiaMongolia2009 expedition. The dunes on this long clip are near Chara, which we went through but did not see, there was even some tarmac around Chara!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM7rIRpv4uo

hmmm, I think you're doing this stretch of road a disservice. Most of the road I though was quite nice, although not challenging. Very good gravel road, nice scenery, hardly any traffic. The only bad part was from about Susuman to Magadan, where the truck traffic really seemed to increase.

To avoid this stretch you can take the Tinkinsky Trakt (from Bolshevik to Palatka), but it was closed this year because a bridge was out. I would definitely take it if the road is open.

send me your e-mail address and I'll send you a road book I did with distances, where to find fuel, etc.

As far as I know, only one group of bikers (the crazy Russians) did the entire old summer road this year, I have not heard of anyone else doing it.

Hi Tom
Sent you a PM with my email. Thanks for the roadbook. My wording does seem "disservice-ful". A much better description is at ADVrider - View Single Post - Siberian Extreme 2010 - Back for More You know it better than me as you've ridden it. I was trying to remember stuff through the fog of my beer fueled mind when we chatted in Moscow.:funmeteryes:

Apart from the Crazy Russians you mentioned, who else has recently (in the last 3 years?) ridden the Old Summer Road via Tomtor (Walter's section 7 in the above link)? I think Walter and Sherri-Jo did it? Which route did Dan and Ed take this year? Walter and Tony on their trip?

cheers
Chris

I think Walter rode it with Sherri Jo and Tony (the year before), but Tony or Walter would need to confirm. Not sure about Dan and Ed, although Walter did mention a couple of Brits that could not cross at Kyubeme, but that rode to Tomtor from the eastern end of the road, maybe it was them.

I think there were also some other groups/individuals that did it in 2010 and 2009, but Walter would be the best to ask.

In Yakustk I met an Aussie 4x4 couple that did the OSR in their truck, I am trying to find a link to their site, they showed some some pretty cool video showing road conditions.

I have not spoken with the Russians in detail, but apparently they only had problems with the water level at the beginning and the end (they hired a truck to get across at Kyubeme), but also that it should not be done alone, or maybe even in a pair (there were five of them), because of the sheer number of water crossings and bogs where you could get stuck. I should also mention that these guys are pretty hard core, and that it took them I think 4-5 days to do the OSR, including a maintainance day in Tomtor.

The track north if Zhilagalovo is fine graded gravel. A very enjoyable road.

RoB.
Any car, 2 or 4WD should have little difficulty on the Federal Road parts of the RoB network of roads and tracks. A 4WD would be needed once you get off that and some sections would probably be impassable even to them.
Much depends on the weather and amount of water lying about, not just rain but the quantity of the past winter's snow. When it eventually melts the permafrost below the surface stops water absorbtion so it just sits there slowly evaporating. Hence the whole area and all of northern Siberia, being so wet and muddy in summer and smooth zimniks - frozen ice tracks only passable in winter.

BAM (Western)
Different proposition!
Consider this - about 100 or 200km west of Taksimo we met Michael Rej coming the other way. He is probably Poland's most experienced 4x4 expedition leader having been organising and leading them and instructing for more than 15 years. A typical 'hard core' Polish adventurer - and at the top of his trade.
This time he was leading SyberiaMongolia 2009 - Syberia-Mongolia 2009 a two vehicle (Discovery and a Toyota something) trip to Mongolia. They were very well sponsored by many Polish and World brands and a Polish TV - so money equipping themselves with the most practical equipment was presumably not a problem.
They chose to do the western BAM as a diversion to relieve the monotony of the Trans Siberian Highway to their intended Mongolia turn off.

They eventually got through to Tynda but by then the vehicles were in such a bad state that their Mongolia aspirations (and the purpose of the trip) were curtailed and they had to work very hard just to get their vehicles back to Poland, not on trailers.

There are many of their clips if you do a YouTube search syberiamongolia as well as through their own WebSite above.

There are very steep railway embankments you must climb (and descend) to get over some rivers on the railway bridges (active with freight trains) - you will have to drive along the actual rails at times - many 'road' bridges were not even safe for a our single track light bikes - others we had to rebuild with timber to make just a single track for the bikes - others were partially or completely absent, requiring some very bumpy river crossings, dry and wet. And so on. And it will all have deteriorated further by 3 more Siberian winters by next summer.

And then there is the VITIM BRIDGE - something I personally never ever, EVER want to see again in this life (I am still sometimes kept awake at night thinking about it). Without that bridge I would dearly love to revisit the entire BAM but with a lighter bike and less stuff.

BAM (eastern section)
4 wheels? Forget it is my opinion - although I admit to knowing nothing of the full capabilities of 4x4s.

I am not trying to paint a picture to glorify out own exploits but giving honest opinions. Look at Michael Rej's BAM drive - and be aware of the atrition to the vehicles that he suffered, such that they barely got them home.

This Russian guy described the dunes as being pretty big and impressive, although I'm not sure if if they are quite like Merzouga...

Apparently these dunes are not right on the BAM, but to the north a bit, and IIRC, you could not actually ride to them (you have to walk to the dunes themselves), although you could ride close enough to see them, or maybe they are even visible from the BAM.

I would be interested to hear if Walter has heard of, or laid eyes on, these (mythical) dunes?

He knew of them and mentioned them at the time as being nearby when we refulled at Chara (just north of the BAM from Noviy Chara that has no fuel).

But we were all getting long behind our generous flexible schedules and left with the comment "for another time".

Tony,

Really appreciate your comments. With regards to the east I wasn't planning on after reading the ride report some time ago.

That expedition is reasonably well equiped, we wont be going with anything less. I found the full length of their video here: campusadventureteam's Channel - YouTube

That Toyota thing is a 200 series Land Cruiser. Would be interested to hear what was wrong with them that they struggled to carry on. The Cruiser looks very low (stock) so I imagine the underside got a bit of a kicking.

For the 4 wheelers steep banks are not a huge problem, railway bridges shouldn't be much of a problem, we crossed one in Senegal: https://www.facebook.com/#!/video/vi...50178618323306

Im mostly concerned with the bridges but more so the flow of the rivers. Depth isn't usually the problem, rate of flow is! I dont have much experience of fast flowing rivers so that TBH is what scares me most.

Like you said, its all dependant on the season/rainfall/snow. Lets hope 2013 is a good year and we dont have to tackle it as a single vehicle :helpsmilie:

G

CHara Sand Dunes
 

They are accessible from Stary CHara (Old Chara) ... where you have to go for fuel anyway.

I have even made it easy for you guys ... I have drawn in the access trails on OSM. Or ask any locals at Chara.

The dunes are a bit of a geological anomaly ... no-one knows how they got there. But they are there, only 6km I think it is from Chara. The dunes are the olive coloured blob on OSM next to Chara. There is a river crossing involved.

Assuming you can get your car up and down the railway embankments, would you be allowed to cross the bridge in a slow car? A little bike can get across very quickly and if a "freight train a comin' " also get out of the way pdq.

Can a car fit across the Vitim Bridge?

Chris

And I met one coming the other way. Fortunately I reached one of the 'refuge lay bys' with literally a second to spare!

Yes - look at the various videos on YouTube.

Here is the latest video - and fastest yet. All of about 40 minutes quicker than me. No one challenging my record?
Vitim River 2011 on Vimeo
1 minute 11 seconds.
Notice the clean central path on the timbers? Perhaps created by the apparent "hoardes" of motos attracted to this 'Everest' of bridges.

Sadly, it will be inevitable thatone day someone will go over the side. With the current and cold water the result is without doubt.

Chris, watch the video ;) answer to all your questions.

A spotter and a 2 way radio will go a long way to keeping eyes peeled. Freight trains tend to travel quite slow (by comparison) so its not as dangerous as it could otherwise be.

Either way, we will give it a try, see what happens. I think I need to pick up some waders on the way though!

G

Railway bridges are definitely going to be a bigger risk for a car than for a bike. But it does get done. The 2 Polish 4WDs did the western BAM in 2009.

As for cars crossing the vitim, yes they can.... its a bit less clearance, but possible. Its even possible in trucks ... see this video:

http://youtu.be/AHtzBt-fOAM

Just watched the video at campusadventureteam's Channel - YouTube Good fun...

Any idea where on about 9 minutes to 12 minutes(ish) the car ended on the truck and the truck got stuck is? Looked like fun. Are there any bits on the western BAM where you might need to truck a bike?

Vitim River 2011 on Vimeo Nice in warm and dry weather and no wind, but...

Definitely need to get a HD helmetcam.

Chris

Correct - back to Tomtor
 

Yes, there was no way I was going to miss the road to Tomtor having gone all that way so we drove round to Susuman west to Tomtor and then back to Susuman!

I've not looked at it recently but from memory of seeing it some time ago I think it was the river Kuanda - a little east of the Vitim Bridge. We crossed the river on the rail bridge after very lengthy (and expensive) negotiations with the guard and the boss for the area.

No need for trucks if you negotiate and get permission at manned rail bridges. The guards appeared to be more signalmen than full security men. Unmanned ones we just went across.
On the BAM east half many are are guarded my armed military which make them "No-No s" unless you are on a train. So we always had to find a way - sometimes on the back of a truck, but they are rare things. Sometimes we went for 2 days without seeing a single vehicle or person other than the nearby trains.

I dont think the rivers will be a problem for you on the western BAM in a 4WD. On the bigger rivers, the track just leads to the railway bridge :)

But I think you may be underestimating the railway bridges. Freight trains thunder along there at 50 mph and can come from any direction at any time. The railway is rarely straight and the trains will not have time to stop once they see you. Some of the railway bridges are up to 400 yards long and you wont be able to get out of first gear crossing them. Even for a 150 yard bridge that might take 2 minutes to cross including getting on and off the tracks, You will need to send spotters with 2 ways at least 2 miles either side of the bridge to guarantee you had time to cross.

I can vouch from personal experience that subject to terrain, you often cant see or hear them coming around bends until they are 200 odd yards away.

2 of the railway bridges on the western BAM that have signalmen that can help you cross (once you have paid the toll) and ensure you have a train free crossing, are the Kuanda River and the Olyokma River.

Its definitely feasible in a car as the Polish guys showed, but there is a fair bit more risk involved in crossing the BAM railway bridges in a car that I dont see present in the Senegal video. The trains are huge and will not be able to stop for you. If you have a mechanical issue or you put a wheel astray on the bridge when crossing such that it jams or falls off the sleeper platform then the best case scenario is probably that the car gets smashed to pieces.

Other people to contact would be Vaino Laisaar ... who has an Estonian TV show called Motors24 ... I believe they went this summer with 3 4WDs at least as far as Chara ... maybe further. Not too many railway bridges before CHara ... but more after there. Pics below

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._2496807_n.jpg

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._4990444_n.jpg

They look like they made a lot of effort re filming.

Yes the polish car on the truck that got stuck was at the Kuanda river. I cant remember if the Poles were denied permission to use the railway bridge that day or if they just wanted to try an alternative ... but it ended up taking them all day to cross the Kuanda.

And Chris, I can confirm there is no need for trucks on the Western BAM. All our truck action was on the Eastern BAM

Sorry if it came across as such. I meant as a physical obstacle for a 4wd over logistically.

The crossing in Senegal was twice as long as the video. I had to concerntrate as a spotter/passenger so stopped filming. its the only way to cross within approx 500km.

As a company we do a fair bit of railway work here in the UK, at night with the high speed passenger trains. I would not rely on sound at all. Spotters will be the only way along with carefull planning and a dynamic risk assemssment. Less trains at night? an option worth exploring.

Thanks for the info Walter :thumbup1:

G

I wouldnt think so ... Its a 4300 km long railway ... probably a 3-4 days to cover the whole length. So I dont think there will be any bias re daytime / nighttime. They will be running round the clock, even the passenger trains.

I think for a car, on the railway bridges, there will always be a degree of gut wrenching and sphincter tightening when you are on the bridge ... simply cause there is no escape. No where to run to. With the bike you always know you can throw yourself and the bike against the side railing and you will be OK. With a car, you need a different level of courage :)

I know if it were me driving across one of the bigger rail bridges there, I would be doing it with all passengers out, and the drivers door open.

Bon chance!

(and take lots of video) :)

Yes I will send the girlfriend out ~3 miles down the line and on the radio or to within the radio limits. With an estimated speed of 40mph for the train I should be able to work out the warning time needed. Paceing out the bridge I should know how long it takes to cross the bridge to safety +20%

I take it with trains running both ways that there are 2 lines? I should only need to straddle 1 track therefore limiting the need to look both ways, so to speak.

Suck it and see. Yes plenty of video dont worry jeiger

G

It's single track from somewhere near Sevrobaikalsk. How they regulate it I am not sure. We saw a signal controller who phoned others.
Stations and other stopping points have a 'lay-by' track for passing and overtaking.
There are occasional green and red signal lights which will suggest which way the next train might come from.

There is not enough space between the girder work of the rail bridge structure and the train width for even a bike so you will probably have to straddle both rails.

We tested train width to rail position by sticking sticks in the ground and seeing which ones got knocked over! They slightly overhang the sleepers.

And they seem to run irrespective of day or night. We slept alongside the track (and once under) enough times to know that.
But then, some slept more soundly than others. I was awake a lot, listening to the rats scurrying around!!

yes both directions on a single track. We made the mistake of thinking that once a train goes (as it is single track) we had a window of opportunity and could go. That was a mistake for several reasons.

(1) sometimes a single train goes in one direction. But sometimes a train goes, you are preparing to ride over the bridge, and 3-4 mins later, a second train comes from the same direction. Sometimes a third 5 mins later again. .... But sometimes not. You cant know how many trains have been "bracketed" in a directional convoy.

(2) passing sidings seem to be spaced about 20 miles apart, but sometimes as little as 10. If you dont know the distance to the next siding in front of you, you dont know how soon after a train has passed that another can come from the opposite direction.

Here is a link to the blog of Jon, the Aussie I met in Yakutsk. He showed me some pretty good videos of crossing through the bogs on the OSR, hopefully he's posted the videos or at least some stills on his blog:
Travel Blog: Threeinatruck in Russia and Mongolia

I expect that his blog would be particularly interesting to any 4x4 guys looking to go to Vladi/Magadan next year.

Hi Tom
Many thanks for that great link.

When we were talking recently you suggested I consider bringing my bike in across a land border into Russia from western Europe and then freighting/train-ing it from Moscow to Irkutsk. Because of my tight timeline (limited summer holidays: “only 6 weeks”) I’m considering spending summer 2012 in eastern Siberia, then parking bike in UB and riding summer 2013 in Mongolia before freighting it home with Landbridge from UB to Germany.

This would solve my problem of stupid ATA carnet requirements to get a vehicle through inbound-customs at UB. (Outbound at UB is no problem and in/out at a Russia/Mongolia land border in easy as well).

Some Dutch friends put their dirtbikes on the train from Moscow to Irkutsk this summer. I’ll have to find out from them how they did it.

Anyone want to share costs of driving my van with 2 bikes (yours and mine) in the back from the UK to Moscow?

Cheers
Chris

I shipped via truck from Moscow to Irkutsk this summer for about $600. In general it was pretty easy, but I think train would be cheaper so I may look at that next year (or maybe not, because the truck thing was easy enough where I'm not sure I want to try new shipping adventures).

Also, I would look at the feasibility of bringing two bikes in a van into Russia, you might encounter weird customs rules, or rather prohibitions.

Yeh, I think my Dutch friends paid 300euro (or was it 400?) each as passengers and 100euro per bike.

My mates drove in a car with 2 bikes on the trailer from Holland to Moscow. On the return, they train-ed themselves and bikes back to Moscow and drove home in the car and trailer.

I imagine the owner of the other bike would have to be in the van with me. Driving all that way, I'd need a co-driver anyway. I once drove a van with 2 bikes to Romania. The dude at the border was a bit confused, but as all 3 vehicles were in my name, it was cool.

cheers
Chris

That is all good to hear, but I seem to recall a thread on the HUBB about some guy who was turned away from the Russian border because he was trying to bring a motorcycle behind a 4x4, or something.

Also, I can tell you that I have personally asked one of the border guards if one person can bring in more than one vehicle at a time on temporary import, and they said "no" (van + moto = two vehicles...).

Anyway, as usual it sounds like the rules are a bit dynamic at the Russian border, but it would probably be worthwhile to have some kind of contingency plan.

If you ship your bike by train, I would not recommend going with it, the train ride is really boring and you'd be better off IMO flying out to meet the bike and spending a bit more time in Moscow, Irkutsk, or wherever.

That was quite probably me though nothing as grand as a 4x4! as the two of us were turned away from the UA/RUS border due to having three units of transportation and two persons, so it seems that can be an issue and if i was doing it again I would find another body even if only for the crossings

The trailer itself was a contentious issue as the uk doesnt have registration papers for trailers (carte grise?) I fortunately took the original sales invoice and had the document where my trailer was registered on the national trailer database thing that ifor williams do as a matter of course which seemed to be sufficient after a lot of shrugging and insistence from me

In terms of Borders I got the impression that were it not for the notes on the computer we might have crossed from LV/RUS it was a more relaxed border and they seemed to want to let us across, or maybe the guy with the big hat who made the decision was having a good day, either way big fail for me.:thumbdown:


Will be heading off again on just the bike next June though:scooter:

The "bike(s) in van to Moscow and the train/truck it to Irkutsk" is just one possible option. I believe my Dutch mates (car/trailer/2 bikes/2 people) took the shortest route via Belarus. If I did it, I'd probably go via Latvia to save on paying for Belarus visa. My backup plan would be park the van in Latvia and ride.

Having today ridden my DRZ for the first time in about 130 days, I forgot how uncomfortable the seat is... Yeh, I know I shouldn't be sitting on it, but standing and Airhawk/Sweetcheeks blah blah. I might take the Trannie from my cancelled 2011 trip and ride on pavement all the way ( http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...lia-side-57723 and http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...s-bright-57994 ). It would also be the cheaper option (but not the most fun...).

The ATA carnet problem/freight direct to Mongolia scenario is also not insurmountable, just a pain in the butt (like the Suzi seat...).

cheers
C

A cross reference to Road of Bones road conditions info: http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/route-planning/road-of-bones-advice-59809 Post number 5.

Chris

This was what I was planning/hoping to do. Had one quote of $1000 seemed very steep. :(

I plan to leave the UK 13th July 2012 and expect to be in Moscow 3-4 days later. Then hoping to freight/train Moscow to Irkutsk. Then I will then be riding in Mongolia 2/3 weeks. Then heading home to the UK. I have a total of 7 weeks and 2 days. Going to be travelling on a DRZ400s. Anybody else going about then?

Hi All, If you need any help/info on Mongolia, you can ask me either here or contact me at info@adventuresmongolia.mn. I run my own small adventure tour operator here in Mongolia.

/
Hi Chris,

One of our Land Cruisers did this section very recently.
Here is the link with lots of pictures.
LOTS of pict's

The page
Trips and Trip Reports - Been somewhere exciting in your 'Cruiser?? Tell us all about it! Got any details on planning a trip? While on a trip you thought "Doh, should have brought that with"? Details please. Details. • Land Cruiser Club and Foru

The topic
Trips and Trip Reports - To Mongolia and back summer 2010 WARNING LOTS OF PHOTOS! • Land Cruiser Club and Forum

Vette

update on ROB & BAM
 

The western BAM route.... early august, until we got to the Vitim we had no idea how much rain had been falling! Crossing the Blue river was quite deep and did push us slowly sideways! The road to Taksimo might not be difficult but it is extremely bumpy for a 4x4. We then arrived at the Vitim bridge and the river was in full spate. Nearby to the BAM monument was a group of Russians packing up their rafting gear. These had just spent 10 days rafting 500km down the Vitim river and most of that time it rained. We drove across the bridge and my wife keep say MOVE further right whereas I wanted to move left! We got into Kuanda and then to the river there was noway a Kamaz truck could cross this! I went to the guard on the bridge and there was noway he would let us cross even with money to help the way and that I would need a permit issued from the boss in Kuanda. We spent an afternoon and the next morning trying to get permission. They said vehicles have been allowed cross but since early 2011 it has been officially band. The only way across the rail bridge was to put the car onto the train at Taksimo would cost approx 30000 roubles to Chara. We then spoke to a Kamaz driver who said the number '6' needs to be visible on the water level markers on the bridge pillar. We went to camp down on the banks of the river and met 2 Russian 4x4's, these checking out this route for possible promotional video for a new 4x4 vehicle. They too where trying to get permission and had senior contacts in the railways to help facilitate the crossing. After another 2 days the '6' was visible, though there would be no problems for a Kamaz to cross, all 3 Kamaz drivers would not cross for another 4/5 days due the river bed being too soft due to the water volumes that lift the bed of the river and needs time to settle down! They didn’t mention that at the beginning! All attempts at crossing the bridge failed, so it was back to Taksimo and the Vitim bridge. If we could have fitted the car onto the flat bed trailer we could have crossed for nothing! Alas that was not the case and I wasn’t prepared to pay 30000 roubles to cross the river however much disappointed I was.
Whether I will be back I don’t know, I am tempted to come back on a bike.


Another point to remember is that there is talk, that the authorities are thinking of dismantling the Vitim bridge to salvage the steel! This may happen, it may not but you have to remember that the bridge 'IS' officially closed. So make that trip sooner rather than later.


We did meet the Austrian on the bike, while we were waiting for a Kamaz, who'd crashed through and hanging over the edge of a wooden road bridge needing to be winched off. He said he was trying to catch up a group of bikers that were ahead of him, so only stayed long enough for some tea.


Another delay we came across was yet another Kamaz this time stuck in the middle of the Blue river. There were maybe a dozen 4x4's waiting for the water to drop. You could tell it was deep as the Kamaz wheels were covered and the speed of the water in this crossing is fast. In actual fact it didn't look any worse when we crossed it in the first place. The only worry would be if we were pushed into the side of the Kamaz and got trapped! After a bit of advice from the worried on lookers, we went for it and getting across but just missed the corner of the Kamaz by 150mm!


The 'Summer route'late august last year. Crossing the Kyubyume river was nearly a metre deep (crossing near the old bridge) then the rest of the road was very easy and it doesn’t really deteriorate until you pass into the Magadanskaya region 100km east of Tomtor, then it becomes one deep pool after another, some nearly a metre deep and water worn road. We were not far from from the Arkagala river and were met by a Kamaz truck, the driver said that it was too high for them to cross! As we were on our own in a Landcruiser, we decide to drive all the way back to the Kyubyume river. Where we found there is another more shallower crossing at half a metre deep but a longer water crossing, 1km further down stream, the OSM map does show it. The eastern section of 'Summer route' has no difficulties at all – once that road bridge has been completed, we actually drove from the east side and did not know about the road closure and had to reverse 300km. Barring 80km we had driven the 'summer route' twice, but still haven’t completed it!


The Only place where we had punchers was on the Kolyma highway or the road of bones 6 in total, 5 nails the sixth puncture was a 50mm stone forced between the tread, this was on the 'Summer route' The truck drivers reckon on one per 100km! Seeing them on the side of the road backs that statement up.
As to the vehicle standing up to stress these roads hand out, the main thing is don't rush it. I had to change three 'hardy spider'( don’t forget to grease regularly ) joints on the prop-shaft in Irkutst then the forth in Magadan. Had a loose wheel and a broken wheel stud. The air-con stop working and we driven through Uzbekistan who were having the hottest summer in decades and regular in the 40C+ then the inboard diesel heater stopped working in Siberia. On the summer router in the mornings we had iced over pools and snow over the passes and this was August -September.


Stephen

"If we could have fitted the car onto the flat bed trailer we could have crossed for nothing! Alas that was not the case and I wasn’t prepared to pay 30000 roubles to cross the river however much disappointed I was."

It should have said.......

If we could have fitted the car onto the flat bed trailer with the Rusians we could have crossed for nothing! Alas that was not the case and I wasn’t prepared to pay 30000 roubles to cross the river however much disappointed I was.

Hi Nick
I just sent you a couple of emails in reply to yours about possibly starting your trip from Almaty/Kaz. I've teamed up with these Dutch guys: http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...zachstan-60688

Opening container on 16July.

I'm flying to Kaz. Once in Almaty I'll ride Kyrg, Taj, Usbek, Rus to Ulan Batar in Mongolia (and fly home at end August). I'll park the bike there til summer 2013 and then ride Mong/eastern Siberia before shipping bike home.

Because of the large road/easy gravel miles I'm taking a slightly more
comfortable (modified) Transalp rather than my DRZ.

Dates might suit you.

cheers
Chris

Dilemma: DRZ or Transalp?
 

Hi guys
My latest 2012 plan is as follows: Ship bike to Almaty/Kaz and ride 7 weeks in Central Asia and via Altai/Russia to Mongolia (16July to end August). Then in 2013 in the same timeframe ride more of Mongolia and a lot of Siberia.

My dilemma is as follows: originally I planned to take a lightweight DRZ (160kg incl luggage), but now I’m in 2 minds and need to make a decision between the DRZ and a 600cc Transalp (with stronger than stock suspension, big tank, soft luggage: maybe 220kg including luggage, but no fuel).

Central Asia in July/August should be hot and dry and I’ve been told most of the roads are paved/gravel, as is Altai apparently. So Trannie will be fine.

However, with regard to the following routes, I’m unsure if the Transalp will be too much of a shed to handle. FWIW, trail ride regularly in the UK on my DRZ.

Western Mongolia border to Ulan Bataar
It’ll be the wet season: Mates of mine have ridden it on big fat R-GSs with hard boxes and F800GSs. But it was dry...

Vilyuisky Trakt
No idea. But it’ll be the “wet” season, I think.

Western BAM
Stephen/Allchin gives a good description: Assuming the rivers/bridges are passable, how’s the road?

Old Summer Road
The New Federal Road should be passable, whatever rain there’s been. I’m imagining the OSR is a no go in/on whatever vehicle, just because the bridges are down.

The rest: Overall, the highways/ gravel will be a lot easier/less gruelling on the Trannie. But, how hard are the "hard" bits?


With ref to each of these: What do you think? DRZ or Transalp?


Thanks for any input,
Chris

Chris,

I think whether the OSR is passable or not will depend on the weather, but even in the best weather I don't think it would be a good idea to do it alone. I will let more knowledgeable members provide responses on the other issues!

Where are you keeping your bike in Mongolia? I am thinking about doing the same thing...

FYI, Summer 2013 thread started at: http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...486#post394363