During most of the US war in Vietnam, draftees were sent to fight. Protests, riots, political unrest. Nixon cancelled the draft, almost all that stopped. Putin goes from peace at home by using voluntary soldiers to using draftees, all that has started up. For all his faults, Nixon was a genius, Putin is not. I signed up for the Navy to avoid going to the jungle.

Just a short question, what does the draft discussion have to do with the possibility to travel in Russia?

Well if your route out of Russia involves Finland or Georgia you had better be prepared for a long wait - because those avoiding the draft are ducking out of Russia.

Ever had to change routes due to rallies and riots? I miss the smell of tear gas in the morning.

Again, what does this have to do with the actual discussion about traveling in Russia at the moment.

It is possible and it does not depend on drafts or similar

Yesterday, September 28, it was recommended that all US citizens leave, especially those with dual citizenship, as being drafted is possible. Never underestimate what can happen.

Here's the response I wrote just before the forum went down:

Up-to-date knowledge of civil unrest and instability is always relevant to overland travel. For example, I want to know about areas to avoid, activities newly ouside my risk threshold, even subjects I should steer clear of in the presence of inebriated acquaintances. That's as true when it comes to Europe or Asia as it is in Africa, Latin Ameria, or, well, Los Angeles.

What would not be appropriate here is political debate--who's in the wrong, who's in the right, what to do about it, and (sooner or later) which position most closely resembles that of the Nazi party of the 1930s and 1940s.

All of the above IMHO, as usual.

Mark

I agree, but it startet with this, and for this was my question.

And there was draft, but no riots at this time.
Now only small ones in Dagestan.


And a queue is not really something what should be a problem while travelling

Since I was very recently on the ground in Russia I just want to point out there are boat loads of stories, rumours and misinformation coming out about the situation in Russia. Most of these are politically driven claims that appear to be pushing one narrative or the other. In my view, and while it may often be less emotionally satisfying, accurate information is actually far move valuable than spin and propaganda, especially for adventure travellers. I will try to correct some less than fully correct information as it pops up on the thread for the benefit of keeping it (travellers information) real and factual and objective. Anything non factual or objective should be noted as such including sources .... for example ... "there are rumours originating from Ukrainian telegram channels that Russia is preparing to close its borders to men of military age" as opposed to "Russia is preparing to close its border to men of military age". Horizon Unlimited should not be a political narrative bulletin board. People come here for factual information and objective opinions and in a time and area where there is considerable disinformation from all sides, we need to try and keep it real here guys.

This is partly correct. The border crossing with Georgia (there is only one) has long queues. The border crossings with Finland however do not have them. Finnish border guard report increased flow over the border post mobilisation announcement but they also specifically noted that numerous false and misleading videos and stories have been posted concerning the Russia-Finland border. Further, a live assessment of what is happening at the borders can be gleaned from looking at Yandex traffic. Yandex maps are the main navigation system russian car and truck drivers use and like google, yandex uses two way data flow to determine traffic levels. If the average speed of vehicles navigating using Yandex maps is near the speed limit, the route is marked green on their traffic maps. If the average speed of vehicles is very slow on the route, the route will be marked red or even dark red for a full jam / queue situation. Note that parked cars on the side of the road with the navigation app running will result in average traffic speed appearing slower (more red) than in reality. But it is impossible to have a green road not being free and moving at full speed. You cant drive at 80 km/h through a traffic jam. Therefore a green road is a road without jams or traffic. If you want a factual picture of the border crossings, you need therefore to go to verifiable sources - Such as looking at non narrative based mapping app data. Pictures and video are often HIGHLY misleading as they can be from different times and even different locations from those claimed by the poster. Further, the poster of course is trying to convert you to his or her opinion and therefore often manipulates the pictures or video to achieve that - even posting pics taken from other locations or times and not related to the claim in the post. That's what you very often get with Twitter and Telegram stories and info and if you want to keep it real you have to filter thru the spin and refer to verifiable objective info/data where available.

A look at Yandex traffic right now confirms what the Finnish Border Guard have said... there are no jams or queues at any of the three major Russia Finland border crossings at this time. https://yandex.com/maps/?l=trf%2Ctrf...851940&z=10.05

Firstly, Mass mobilisation has NOT been announced. A partial mobilisation has been announced, comprising previous service members only. Strict guidelines for eligibility have been announced confirming that. While the Voenkomat (regional draft offices) have in many cases in the first few days drafted possibly thousands of people outside the guidelines, those drafted in error have been returned and the defence ministry and the general russian press has given the Voenkomat a severe dressing down.

Secondly, the Russian authorities have not announced any plans to ban men of military age leaving the country. There has been nothing more than speculation that such a ban will occur. It may happen in the future, who knows. But it is not fact. It is at this time mere rumour.

In general I guess it is the end of the season, so not many people will be bringing cars or bikes into Russia in the next 6 months. Getting back to the OP's topic about people from NATO countries travelling in Russia ... I have not heard of anyone with valid docs being refused entry. I have heard indirectly (forums and 3rd hand info) that a small percentage of western passport holders are questioned at immigration at entry in the last 3-4 months (seemingly only at airports) and had their phones scanned (to be fair the UK and US have been known to occasionally do this to arriving citizens from hostile countries). I would note however that none of the many expats I personally know in Moscow has had that happen to them, so I have no first hand info to confirm that or even second hand info.

The first casualty of war, as ever, is truth.

If you claim to be the source of truth here, correcting others, then you would do well to stop assuming where others' information is coming from.

Correct, insofar as the Finnish border previously required a valid Schengen visa for Russian citizens to cross. Finland had already significantly reduced its own Schengen visa processing capacity for Russians, and as of the end of September, Russian citizens are not allowed into Finland even if they have valid Schengen tourist visas. (Finnish national broadcaster quoting Finnish government sources, NOT a Ukrainian telegram channel.)

And yes, if you are an EU/US/UK passport holder currently in Russia, you can get out via the Finnish, Norwegian, Latvian or Estonian border crossings easily enough. Less so if you try to get out via the Georgian, Kazakh or Mongolian borders (where Russian passport holders don't need visas, so there have been long queues).

A "partial" mobilization that is not legally restricted in size. The relevant article (#7) of the signed bill is top secret. Here is the relevant Ukrainian telegram group for you: Указ «Об*объявлении частичной мобилизации в*Российской Федерации» • Президент России

Also, the definition of "previous service member" here includes anyone who's done conscript service, which means almost every male citizen of Russia over 18, plus the women in militarily relevant professions, so doctors and nurses. (Reservists in the sense of people who have actively signed up to be in an army reserve, undergo regular refresher training and be called up if necessary, are the BARS units that have already been on the front lines for months.)

Have they? Because the actual presidential order contains no strict guidelines and no exclusions. There are only a bunch of interviews with the Defense Minister and other government officials, each of whom has their own opinions about who will and won't be called up - but none of it has the force of law, even insofar as that counts in Russia.

Speculation by credible sources in the Presidential Administration (https://meduza.io/news/2022/09/25/is...zhat-iz-rossii).

Furthermore, men of military age who have received draft notices are forbidden from leaving their official place of residence without the written permission of their local Voenkomat (source: the actual law of the Russian Federation, Статья 21. Обязанности граждан, подлежащих призыву на военную службу по мобилизации \ КонсультантПлюс). And the Russian authorities have set up mobile draft notice distribution kiosks at overland border posts.

Thank you for that.

I know personally a few people who ride in Russia at the moment.
And I rather rely on their information then to rumors in a forum

A personal view. I'm currently in Aktau/Kazakhstan and last afternoon/evening/night arranged for my bike that I rode from Bishkek/Kyrgyzstan, via Uzbekistan to here to travel by ferry to Alat/Azerbaijan.

I'll fly to Baku/Azerbaijan in a couple of days to meet up with the bike. Land (and sea) borders into Azerbaijan are closed, but flying in and riding out to Georgia is possible.

All hotels in Aktau are full with Russian men in their 20s and 30s, some with their partners and children too, but mostly single men, some shipping their cars on the same ship as me, although it's currently very windy in the Caspian Sea, so all ships are at anchor, going nowhere. Them and me are flying to Azerbaijan, Georgia and Turkey (Russians don't need visas for these countries). Flights are booked out for 2 or 3 weeks in advance.

I've spoken to several of them. They're all educated (IT jocks, engineers etc) and speak English. They are on local social media channels like Telegram where they share their "avoiding-mobilisation experiences". Of course this is possibly all just complete fiction and I should just exclusively follow Yandex traffic information?!

They told me of 40km queues (as in the road is blocked) at the Russia/Georgia border south of Vladikafkas. There is a special lane for buses. The buses get stoned if they try to travel along it ("queue jumping"), so they just sit on the queue instead.

I have a valid Russian visa in my German passport, but chose to take the ferry/ fly option. Because:

The riding on my 650 thumper has been mind chillingly boring for the past 3000km. My tyres are nicely squared off already... I couldn't face more thousands of straight line slabbing around the top of the Caspian Sea, and I genuinely can't be ar$ed with the disaster of the stretch between Atyrau and Astrakhan.

Will the Russians even let me in, considering the EU was allegedly stopping Russians with valid Schengen visas getting in? Reciprocity etc. Do I want to chat with Russian uniformed types as to what I'm doing on the country if I do get in?

I'm not planning to ride to Finland. My destination is Bulgaria.

I'm particularly not keen to get involved in the border situation entering Georgia from Russia. While I pretty much wrote the manual creative riding (Cairo 1999 for example, palming off an Egyptian policeman (he was very slight in stature and crumpled :mchappy: ) trying to stop me riding 200 meters the wrong way up a one way street :funmeteryes: ) , negotiating 40km of p!ssed off Russians of conscription age isn't my idea of fun and giggles.

So, insha'Allah, me and Engelberta, the Humperthumper, will be Georgia sooner than later and I'll probably park the bike in Armenia and fly back to Bulgaria. Then return next early summer and ride the lovely biking friendly Armenian and Georgian mountains before taking the Turkish TET west to mi casa en BG.

I'm in the market for tyres in Tiblisi :D

I know 4-5 people first-hand that this has happened to at airports in the last few months, mostly US or British citizens. Detentions of 2-6 hours (mostly sitting around waiting and some level of interrogation) and phone scans/copies. I don't know anyone that has crossed the land border this year.

VERY well said Walter, and thanks for the informative post!

:thumbup1: