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I'm planning an overland build
I'm after a few opinions , I've been a passenger to the Gambia ( west Africa) in a defender 110 van , been round Europe in my defender 110csw ( now double cab pickup, and I'm now after building a purpose built overlander , I just carnt decide wether to base it on a ex army sankey trailer and tow with my 110 ( I know my Landy is capable of it ) or do I build a 130 doublecab with a purpose built box on the back ?
I plan to use it for Europe to start with then go to Africa in it in a few years , + 130 one truck easier to park in towns ect , - 130 once camp is set up no truck to go anywhere in + trailer , once camp is set up still have Landy to use to go round local towns - trailer , difficult to park in small towns , and navigate round tight rural lanes Please help What would people recommend ? Cheres Blayne Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
I'd go for the 130 without trailer, and get a pair of folding bikes for local exploration.
More manoeuvrable, better fuel economy, more comfortable, easier overall... |
If its just two then you can base it on a 130 , forget a trailer , as they are a problem 90% of the time , both in snow, mud and difficult terrain. Single cab with a decent size living box on the back . Bikes as suggested, or even better electric bikes . If it was a bigger (load capacity ) vehicle then a small 125cc or so dirt bike. You will need to think carefully on build as its very easy to get too heavy too quick. definately dont exceed axle weights/total weight ! HTSH
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When someone is able to build an trailer with electro engine for using it as 6x6 (2x together with 4x4) for the real bad passages - this would be nice :smartass:
But back 2 topic ;-) Do you wan`t to use the car as dailydriver in europe, does it have to fit in underground garages and so on? You can look @ my Blog for an sample as full Dailydriver & Travel simultaneous requirement. I would do it the same way again for this dual purpose. http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xzxmreSAi5...0/DSC01600.JPG When you have the space for an additional "travel car" (or don't have to use city parkings) - you have many many options to discuss: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-b7mmBPOhNQ...600/ivecco.jpg http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Q77ciRwi0D...600/azalai.jpg http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-fCQZtsqaJS...600/geocar.jpg I have listed some solutions here: Trans-Africa: Welches Fahrzeug? Maybe you should look also beyond your favorite brand ;-) And never forget, that you can do near any trip cheap with any good 4x4 and a simple tent and some basic equipment. So don't exceed your "buildup cost" when you are on budget ;-) And keep your weight so low you can - to avoid breakdowns abroad (and the legal stuff in europe). I also like the trailer solutions who are available - and when you search in youtube "gall boys" you will see that you can do much which a trailer behind. But it is a limitation, specially if you like to drive abroad.. A trailer could also be a pain on the small dirt tracks in the europe alps - which the growing traffic because all years more roads get closed. Surfy |
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Thanks for all your replies , looks like the concuss is for a 130 , going to look at getting one and making a custom box on the back like thisAttachment 10518
Or look at getting a ex ambulance 130 for a camper style , just need to keep an eye on the web for a 130 chassis as a base to go with Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Is there just the 2 of you? If so, the double cab is a waste of space. I know - I have one. I think a 130 is the way to go, just use a truck cab, and have loads of space behind.
For the trailer idea, take a look at Sirocco Overland | Сирокко Оверленд | Solo Vehicle Dependent Exploration, Travel & Adventure |
trailer is a really bad idea. A landrover lacks the power and drivetrain toughness to cope. The shock loads on your rear crossmember are massive. Off road the trailer will fly all over the place (frequently becoming airborne)and anything in it will probably turn to mush. It is highly unlikely that the trailer will survive the terrain in Africa. The effect of towing what is, in effect, an anchor, through sand means your vehicle will also probably not survive. Don't be fooled by the army trailers, while undeniably tough they are rarely driven off road for any length of time and never in anything like the conditions and duration you are likely to demand of it in Africa.
If there is 2 of you a 110 should be plenty, if not, your taking too much stuff. A 130 would give you sleeping room potentially and higher payload, but I would regard that as reserve rather than a licence to carry more stuff!! It still has basically the same drivetrain, engine and contact patch with the ground! |
Further to my earlier post , if you are going to custom build on back then look at joining the single cab into the living box, as depending on how lanky you or other are the single cab can be a bit restrictive, this can also be useful as you can do a drive off if situation arises without going outside vehicle! , I had a 130DC HCPU 300tdi for a number of years , found 255/85 tyres a good choice, over the stock 750r16 , due extra weight of 130 over 110. JMHO
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Trailers are best for South Africa holidays where you drive to one or two places, enjoy your holiday and then drive home. For day to day overland travel they would be a pain.
How many people? Surely a 110 is enough for one person? I have lived in one for 4.5 years of my life ;-p |
I agree with others that a 110 should be large enough to cater to two persons camping. It would also be a bit more manoeuvrable than a 130.
If using a ground tent, your camp can be set up and left in place whilst using the vehicle for local transport. If you are committed to building a camper that you can live inside, you might want to look at the various demountable campers that are available. You could fit one to the back of a pick up (110 or 130) for when you are going camping and still have a pick-up truck for non-camping use. You can also demount the camper and leave it at your campsite whilst you use the vehicle for sightseeing, etc. My 110 Defender is primarily set up for tent camping, but it has a sleeping platform and mattresses for those occasions when we need to sleep inside the vehicle. You can see pics of my 110 on my blog at www.bermudarover.com. |
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They're after doing the Road of Bones etc with their trailer.:innocent: I thought they were mad too but they managed ok, I'm really just throwing the cat amongst the pigeons here , saying it can be done.......:scooter::rain::taz: |
Road of bones - one road, not many people.
Africa - many crap roads, many people. You can drive most places in most things. At some point you may want to enjoy it by having the more/most suitable setup to remove some of the headaches. |
Its a bit like russian roulette , it can be done , but you never know when the outcome turns bad :thumbup1:
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I don't really follow your point about parking up and then not having any way to get places?
Are you going to wild camp and just leave your trailer somewhere and expect it to still be there when you come back?:frown: |
And I totally agree, I think towing a trailer is total madness. What a misery on a bad road or in traffic, what a misery if you have to do a U turn and what a misery having to drive slowly if your on a good road. And then there is overtaking.........:funmeterno:
I've been towing trailers for the 20 years I've been driving, and its still a bit of a penance compared to just driving.doh |
The Australian defence forces are selling off their Perentie Landrovers - 6x6, 3.9 Isuzu diesel engine, one little old lady driver. If they had tyres that could grip they'd go up a vertical wall!!
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@ Moggy1968 Have a look at the ZA 4x4 trailers travelling in the dunes, river beds etc then say they are not suitable for the terrain.
Margaret |
Margaret has just shewn me this.
I see we have a few people who've never seen or heard of a ZA trailer or off road/ gravel road caravan. Please look at www.echo4x4.co.za www.conqueror.co.za www.jurgens.co.za www.bushlapa.co.za www.metalain.co.za for just a few. You see many of these traveling the roads, surfaced and unsurfaced, in Botswana, Namibia and ZA If you do want to build yourself, check VOSA for the UK as laws are changing. Use only leaf or coil springs. if possible get a 360 hitch, then should the trailer fall over the tow car stays upright. A good read is www.cvaravansa.co.za We are now building a soft road trailer to sleep in mike |
Ive seen a good few 'off road' trailers, and yes there are some good makes around, very well made and tough. As mentioned, there's a few drawbacks to trailers. Those for me aren't the main problem with them though, having an undriven axle is.
This will seriously limit where you can take your vehicle when you get into soft sand and Fech Fech /Bull dust - an undriven axle acts like an anchor. Forget doing some of the more interesting pistes in West Africa. For a Western Trans with freedom to go where you want (within the scope of logistics and safety wise) its better to have a self contained vehicle with all wheels being driven. If you have a tow vehicle with a large/powerful engine its easier of course, a V8 turbo diesel Toyota would be the best option - I'm sure with the right vehicle you could tow one of these trailers to a lot of places, but show me one getting pulled through a piste full of Fech Fech.....a Defender 110/130 is already underpowered in soft sand, adding a trailer will be the worst combination possible. |
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Take the kavango from your links, dry weigh, over a ton, that's DRY weight and too me it looks way too flimsy. Their lightest smallest trailer, almost half a ton, dry weight, closer to a ton loaded. In particular I wouldn't pull one behind a landrover for the reasons given. Don't get me wrong, I wish I could see a way for it to work because a family of four in a vehicle is a squeeze and something like an off road caravan would solve all my problems, but the cost and issues just don't stack up for me. As many have said, if 2 of you can't fit in a vehicle without using a trailer, your carrying too much unnecessary crap! Actually, I do bloody like that conquerer caravan thingy!! |
Unfortunately there comes at time in life when the desire to travel is still as great as ever but the physical ability to get down onto the therm-a-rest and up again the next morning not withstanding the trauma of putting up the tent in the first place become less than tolerable !!!!!!!! I don't climb ladders etc full stop so roof top and clambering into the back of the 110 is a definite negative.
Mike & I have just built 'our' trailer based on the Conqueror design and tested it on Exmoor. We'll have it at The Hubb ! Having been with folks in ZA/Nam/Bots off road, in river beds etc etc they do their job. Margaret |
The thing is, that you have to look for a solution who fill fit your needs. Everyone else look at your statements with his kind of view.
As i start to prepare my 2011 spec Land Cruiser with any electronic gimmick who are currently available - there was no statement in any forum where i asked for how to prepare the car - who thought this is a good idea. Anyone told me to use old cars because they are easier to repair on the way, because the bush mechanics don't can handle electronic issues well. They don't lie - maybe if i got electric problems, i had to look how to solve them… But I had read many traveller blogs where the people also with these old cars had breakdowns who they had to flight-in spares, got stuck for a long time.. The people (some of them never was in africa) don't know that at least in every main capital is well equipped toyota-garage who can help you (i was curious and look into them in different countries on the transafrica). They also don't know, that probability of running into electric trouble is pretty low. They also don't look how high the probability is - to have really serious problems during such a trip. To have an accident, got sick, got kidnapped, raid, got bitten by a scorpion and and and… If you look at your risks your focus may change a little bit. I don't want to say the statements here in this thread are wrong! I just want to say that you have to find a solution who fit your needs. We can just provide our statements, but you have to find a solution which makes you happy- not us. Personally i would not use a trailer or suggests one… I don't like the handling of it. But look here what other did with more than just trailers: GALL BOYS If someone pay me for doing a transafrica with a hybrid car, an smart, an porsche turbo - i would start soon as i can. Why? Why not! They would not be the best car for such a trip, but they don't have to be the best car. With a smart i will arrive too, need much more time, to drive extremly slow, to leave out some good off road stuff - but there is no reason why i should not be able to complete such a trip. Landrover did cross with their hybrids parts of the silk road to India recently. Enjoy the planning time! :thumbup1: I hope you will find a setup who fits you needs! Surfy |
A trailer can be an answer , but you have to very much regulate where you intend to travel , due to the limits and risks attendant . Trailer anywhere there is likely to be slippery surfaces , eg snow , ice mud , as they can very quickly cause a jacknife with resultant damage to tow vehicle , and trailer.
Soft going as they are unpowered and are like dragging a plow , yes it can be done , tractors do it all tyhe time , but they increase load on tow vehicle , which can be detrimental , just driving thru soft sand can limit a 4x4 ( even some very well known brands ) to not being to be able use the aircon at same time. A dune that is just climbable solo becomes impossible with a trailer resulting in having to winch the thing up the dune , and then having to try and re hitch in soft sand in oppressive heat . Creek crossings that you can drive solo due to overhangs and break over angles are not possible with a trailer . I have towed a 35ft off road adapted caravan thru the outback , but i only towed to centres of population and used as a base camp. JMHE |
Surfy hit it on the head here, everyone spouts what not to do, most have not tried only imagined. Im not talking solely about people here but generally in these circles.
Im not getting into any debates either as we are still on the road and I have better things to do. As a bit of background we have just finished a 42,000km trip across Central Asia, Russia, Mongolia and Europe. We have towed on ice roads in the Arctic, Desert in Uzbekistan, BAM road in Siberia, across the Gobi following dry river beds etc. Not adverse to a bit of offroad as we love greenlaning in the UK, We set out to enjoy our trip and take the road less travelled. We could have sat on the trans Siberian all the way to Vladivostok like some but thats not how we roll. The trailer came about because we had a well prepared D90. It made more financial sense to take a trailer. The yanks love them, the Aussies too, so why not? It was a compromise yes, but the situstion dictated it. I see so many people wanting to do trips but yhink they cant because they dont hsve this or that, it doesnt matter, go with what you have! I wanted to keep it light and tough so we bought a sankey with box body and extended A frame. It weighs about 1 ton loaded. Europe - perfect on roads, ok in towns, parking in cities is sometimes a problem but you can get around this by camping outside and driving in. If your visiting lots of cities you should question why your overlanding. Ice roads were a bad idea, but it may have also been our tyre choice. I wont be doing Arctic Scandinavia with a trailer again, but we had little choice. Parking generally isnt a problem you just hsve to look out for the right space, takes a touch longer. Your all ready excluded from multi storey so it doesnt make much difference! If I can tow through central Istanbul at rush hour on a Monday morning, anyone can! Aral Sea/Uzbekistan - sand here wasnt too much of an issue. On our own for 200km to reach the new coast line. Bukhara and Samarkand no issues. Central Asia - No real issues here, the rough roads reminded us to secure everything inside. Towns, cities parking no problem as there are no restrictions like Europe and its less populated. No U turns necessary. Pamir Highway done also with Wakhan Corridor and 1 or 2 other off routes, trailer left the ground a few times. Kyrgyzstan we were rock crawling up to Altan Arashan in the Tien Shan, after a while I questioned the sensibility of it but we made it up snd down with no issues in low 1st and 2nd. With big rocks, mud holes and switchbacks any issues would have been the same for a lone vehicle. Tried a remote track in the Russian Altai, but it was not possible. Having a trailer made no difference. Mongolia - followed old Russian military maps deep into the Gobi. We went 2 days without even seeing a local! Following dry river beds we were often not even on tracks. Entry and departure angles tested with trailer and were better than a standard Land Cruiser which scrapped its way through a lot of situations. Drove the BAM Railway service road. Bottled it at the Vitim bridge as we didn't know the conditions ahead and wether or not we needed to drive on the rail bridges. Forded big rivers, collapsed bridges and got some grest side slope action. Trailer no problem. Road of Bones - Generally no trouble but the 4000km return to Yakutsk was a really crap road and the truck took a hammering. The final 1000k down to the trans siberian was the worst. As some of the rivets broke we got metal fatigue in the body which has fractured at the front in a few places. I blame the trailer spare wheel. We also cracked both headlights, smashed a side window and 3 big cracks in the screen. Blown rear shocks to so the trailer is the least of the problems. Overall I thought the trailer was great. It afforded us the space to have a proper fold down kitchen, water tank and filter all within easy reach which made daily living a breeze. We also brought along climbing gear, packraft and a few toys which really made the trip. The short physical size of our setup meant we couldn't carry a lot and that is why it's designed like it. We are keeping the trailer for Australia so will see how it goes. A few things need redesigning but we think it suits our needs. For less than 2000GBP ontop of the D90 It made perfect sense. It allowed a couple in their early 30s to do a long haul overland trip. It also spreads the payload over 3 axles stabilising the whole setup which we were grateful for a few times when we flew into car size holes in siberia. Compared to West Africa the routes we did were not really sandy. I dont think I would take the trailer up sand dunes for example, but for the majority of roads I think it would work really well. If your starting from scratch it would be easier to go with a bigger vehicle but as time goes on your kit evolves. The trailer is just another accessory. Sorry for the long post but I felt like some actual real world experience was necessary to put down. G www.Siroccoverland.com Sent from my GT-N5100 using Tapatalk |
awesome trip griffdowg!:thumbup1:
good to here a positive tale. Maybe the only ones you hear are the ones with a bad experience!! I suspect a lot also has to do with driving style, I notice you said you were in low 1st and 2nd on the tougher bits. Maybe people driving too fast is one reason they have problems. Modern cars with a compliant suspension set up insulate the occupants from what they are driving over. This tends to mean they drive too fast, especially if they lack the mechanical sympathy to realise what is happening to the unsprung components of the vehicle. Meanwhile, as they sit in modern airconditioned suspended comfort, the trailer is flying around behind them smashing itself to bits!! Despite it's coil springs, a 90 is a fairly bouncy place to be so maybe you were more sensitive to what was happening under the wheels so looked after the trailer better (or maybe you just built it well!) |
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The best accessory IMO is DRIVER ABILITY mike |
Trailers
There was a couple from UK, that towed a trailer - think it was a Wolf from SA. They did London to Cape Town, even managed Van Zyls Pass!
They had 3 kids hence the need for a trailer - think I have most of those details correct. Saw this at the Adventure Overland show in the summer, trailer built on a Sankey frame, I believe: Freedom Trailers |
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