Belgium to Australia - route planning doable?
 

Hi everyone!
I am planning to leave by mid-March on a RTW trip by motorcycle from Belgium to Australia. From France until Bulgaria I am also planning to ride stretches of the TET here and there.

My preliminary planning (amount of time per country, + visa applications for the countries I will need to do on the go) would be as pasted below.

Now, my question to all of you - does this look doable? Are there stretches that seem "crazy" (too little time etc.)? Any suggestions/remarks/tips?

Thanks in advance! :-)

Countries----Time-------Total time----Starting time of year----Applications
France-------5 days------5 days--------March - 15
Italy---------1 week-----12 days-------March - 20
Slovenia-----4 days-----16 days-------March - 27
Croatia------5 days------26 days-------April - 1
Bosnia-------6 days------26 days-------April - 6
Montenegro-4 days------30 days-------April - 12
Albania------4 days------1m 4 days----April - 16
Macedonia--5 days------1m 9 days-----April - 20
Bulgaria-----2 weeks----1m 23 days---April - 26---------------E-visa Turkey + Azerbaijan
Turkey-----2 weeks-----2m 7 days-----May - 10
Georgia----8 days-------2m 15 days---May - 24----------------Transit visa Turkmenistan & E-visa Uzbekistan + Tajikistan
Azerbaijan-5 days------2m 20----------June - 1
Armenia---10 days-----3m--------------June - 6
Iran--------1m----------4m--------------June - 16---------------Pickup Transit visa Turkmenistan?
Turkmenistan-3 days--4m 3 days------July - 15
Uzbekistan-1 week----4m 10 days-----July - 18
Tajikistan--1 week----4m 17 days------July - 25
Kyrgystan-1 week-----4m 24 days-----August - 2
China------5 days------5m--------------August - 9
Pakistan---3 weeks----5m 21 days-----August - 14
India-------1 week-----5m 29 days-----September - 4---------E-visa Myanmar & Cambodia
Nepal-----12 days-----6m 10 days------September - 11
India------3 days------6m 13 days------September - 23
Bangladesh-1 week---6m 20 days------September - 26
Myanmar--1 week-----6m 27 days------October - 3
Laos-------8 days-----7m 5 days--------October - 11
Cambodia-6 days-----7m 11 days-------October - 19
Thailand--10 days-----7m 21 days------October - 25
Malaysia--1 week-----7m 28 days------November - 4
Indonesia-10 days----8m 8 days-------November - 11--------E-visa Australia
East-Timor-5 days----8m 13 days------November - 21

Iran, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and western part of Tajikistan will be extremely hot.

Also you want to do the Pamir highway? That will be possible in one week but it could easily take longer

Yes, Pamir Highway probably is the plan. Thanks for the info, good to know I may need to take out more time for that.

It will indeed be very hot in those regions then... I'm not looking forward to the heat, but since I would love to ride in the Pakistani mountains in the north and through Nepal, I need to be there around August/September otherwise I am told there will be too much snow if I'm later. So I guess choices have to be made :innocent:

1. So 10 days alltogether in India? I dont think that its even near possible to get through that country in that time frame. Its a whole continent of its own, you should certainly spend more time there.

2. Myanmar directly to Laos is not possible. Although the Myanmar side of the border has upgraded to international status the Lao ditto havent done so. So forget that, you have to go through Thailand.

3. You have planned very little time in Laos, Thailand and Cambodia. Its a really interesting part of the world so although it is possible to race through those countries in the time frame you have set its not advisable.

4. 10 days for Indonesia? LOL are you insane? You would be VERY lucky to be able to ride through Indonesia in a month! The traffic is insanely tight and the roads bad and narrow in most of Indo. On a good day you will be able to make maybe 300 kms, on a bad day much less. This part have to be recalculated quite radically. As a sidenote I can mention that I spent 3,5 months in Indo on my RTW trip and I could easily have spent the double amount of time there. The very highlight of my RTW trip.

5. Th 5 days you have planned in Timor will all be spent on cleaning your bikes and your gear. No time for checking out the country.

6. Arriving Darwin in November isnt exactly ideal. There is a rainy season up north that can be very wet! But maybe ask a an aussie to get more presise info about that issue.

Yes it is not much time for India, but he is just transitting through. It doesnt cost much time from Amritsar to West Nepal border for example.
But again, not much room for error. And not much time for sightseeing. Basically Golden Temple and full throttle onwards.

Actually, reading it again, I have a different suggestion. Just rush through Europe in a few days.
Why take your time for Europe which is always next door, which means you have limited time rest of the trip. Better save that time for the countries you are not going to visit so often, let alone drive through another time.
And you should be more on time in the hot countries before the extreme heat.

We now did two overlanding trips through Asia and we rushed through Europe always. And at other times we took a seperate trip of three weeks going to and visiting Albania.

Looks like a great trip ahead!

A few remarks though:

• April in Bosnia and Montenegro: some trails through the mountains in southern Bosnia and in Montenegro will still be blocked by snow.
• Georgia: Same remark, some of the more interesting roads in the mountains (Svaneti and Kakheti regions) will likely still be blocked by snow
• Armenia to Azerbaijan: you can't cross between these 2 countries directly, you'll have to make a small detour through Georgia
• Iran: We were there around the same time as you plan to be and it was pretty hot indeed. Especially in the centre and the south. Temperatures in the mountains were more pleasant. Well done for taking an entire month to see the country, you'll have a ball. If you enjoy it a lot, you can get the visa extended up to 3 months.

What part of Belgium are you from? We're in Leuven if you want to pop in to pick our brains. Or check out our trip report on East and back again… and back again 2016 – Destination World

Your plan is a bit like a battle plan, it will fall apart with the first contact with the enemy.....
weather, people, breakdowns and borders will conspire against your timetable.

What are your constraints? Do you have a fixed end date?

If so, you need to get rid of it, because travel and life will get in the way and if you try to keep to the plan you will go mad, and set your against the people and places you are traveling through.


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There is not much room for error, that is why I think he should skip on the European part, or take more time.
Not sure if there is a time contraint, but please note that longer travelling over the same itiniary will barely cost more money.

Spot on mate! Spot on.....

You do have quite a few places where your drive times are completely unrealistic. There is NO WAY you will be able to cross Indonesia in 10 days. A long full day of riding in that country can be well under 300 km. As a general guide from Central Asia onwards cut your distance travelled in a day by half, and then half again if it's the rainy season.

You also have some things that are impossible - as far as I've heard it'll be impossible for you to get to Bangladesh with your own vehicle, and you'll have to go back to Georgia to get to Armenia from Azerbaijan.

You seem to be trying to check off as many countries as you can, and not actually giving yourself the time to visit most of them. It took me 10 months to get from Java, Indonesia back to the UK, and I did FAR less than you (I rushed through most of Europe cause of winter, and skipped most of SE asia because of the Thai guide requirement), and even then I felt a bit rushed in places. There's people who can take two years to do the same route! (I've also met people who have done it in 3 months.. I would not recommend that)

Fundamentally, as chasbmw said, there's no point to planning in this much detail. You'll have breakdowns, parts will be hard to get and you'll be stuck somewhere for 2 weeks waiting on parts, there will be countries you fall in love with and want to spend more time in, there will be other places you can't wait to get out of. There will be people who invite you to your home and take you to a festival or give you a tour through the city - if you turn that down because your schedule is so fixed that you can't take an extra day you're missing the entire point of a trip like this.

You'll have a couple of fixed dates you have to deal with - Pakistan visa is the hardest to work around especially from Belgium, but the China and Myanmar guides you can arrange on the road about 2-3 months in advance (or sometimes less), transport to Indonesia and then to Australia can be done more or less on the spot, and the expiry date of your carnet. You can use those as general goalposts to create a rough plan around, and then everything else take day by day (and adjust the rough plan as you go).

Wow, thanks for the tremendous amount of input and tips! :D

This overland trip will be my first and biggest, before I have only done max 3-4 week trips around Western-Europe, and mostly on asphalt. So I clearly have a lot to learn. I am not a stickler for the plans I prepare in advance, so if I like it somewhere, or I need more time, I don’t mind at all staying longer and exploring more and maybe not reach my final destination. In my head, I’ve put Australia as a final destination, but with Pakistan as an intermediate destination. If I reach Pakistan, where I really, really, really want to see the mountains in the north, I will be more than happy.

I do have a maximum of 11 months set. I have 1 year unpaid leave from my job, so it’s impossible to travel any longer unless I quit, and although I don’t exclude that option to continue traveling, I don’t want to decide that just yet, I’ll see how I fare on the road.

So, again, thanks! I’m learning a lot already, and clearly my initial planning is overzealous.

I do know that I have to make choices though, and that’s why some countries are merely “pass-through”, like India. I’m not planning to visit much there, but just to cross from Pakistan to Nepal, straight from the Lahore border crossing to Mahendranagar in Nepal. So I assume 10 days should be more than enough, maybe even less.

Good to know Myanmar straight to Laos is not possible! Via Thailand it is then. With my Belgian passport I don’t need any visa so crossing into Thailand a few times should not be a problem.

Regarding Laos, Cambodia and Thailand, it is fairly little time indeed. Originally I wasn’t planning to include Laos and Cambodia, but like you say, these countries are very interesting. But maybe it’s better to try and learn to make choices rather than race through, you are definitely right about that.

I’m guessing also Indonesia and Timor will need to be revised :-D. I will bow my head over the countries again and try to make choices so there’s more countries transiting and I can choose the ones I really want to see to explore more.

I am going to drastically revise Europe already, I think, because some of you made the very valid point that I can always very easily come back by bike anywhere in Europe while it’s a lot harder elsewhere in the world! So I’ll go a lot faster through Europe. Thanks for the suggestion, that’s really smart!

@chasbmw and @hsinclai, indeed I know that my plans will probably get drastically changed depending on the adventures happening. I definitely don’t just want to race through the countries, and the point of my trip is exactly what you mentioned. So we’ll see what happens!

Thanks again for all the tips! :-D

Thanks for the tips!

I am also from Leuven, and we know each other already - this is Kim, the one who broke down on the Discover Overland weekend ;-)

I'd love to take you up on the offer, so after I've done a bit more preparations I might contact you in the course of January to pop in sometime! Thanks :-)

One further tip, is that crossing a border will take you most of one day and by the end you will probably be so knackered that you won’t want to travel much further that day.

I year is a good amount of time, need to get your basic travel timetable set around the weather, so you do your best to avoid the very hottest deserts, the coldest mountains and wet monsoons. Worth planning the occasional “ holiday” someplace where you can stay a couple of weeks to recuperate


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Hello


+1
and
Check out about the situation on guides in Thailand. Not the passport is a problem it's the bike. As it is in China and Myanmar.


What are your plans in Australia?


Start your trip in Turkey, till there it's just transit, 1 week till Istanbul.
Focus on the countries that you will not revisit too soon.

Pakistan visa, guide tours, and the weather/rain season are your fixpoints, less how long you'd like to stay at a place.

After a few weeks you will feel the flow...

sushi

Note that there are mandatory guide and permit laws in Myanmar and Thailand for foreign vehicles. In Myanmar there are no way to avoid them and they can be quite expensive too. And to get the price down its probably best to join a group of other travellers or organize on group yourself.
In Thailand it seems quite easy to avoid the permit and guide thing coming through most bordercrossings, but the Mae Sot - Myawaddy crossing is stubbornly holding on and they do enforce the mandatory guide and permit rule. So as it seems forvthe time being you will need guide and permits crossing into Thailand too. The good thing is you can organise a quick transit through in 2 days or so and then enter Laos or Cambodia. Then spend some time there and re-enter Thailand without guides and permits and then spend more time there.

Remember these permit and guide things must be organised well in advance, you cannot just rock up at the border and expect to get things organised there within a few hours or overnight.

:oops2:
I didn't connect the nickname to the person doh

But regardless, you're welcome to drop in for a coffee and travel talk any time. bier

Hi
I sort of have the same route. Maybe we could meet up somewhere.
Here is my travelplan.

Attachment 21829

Yes, I read that it's not as simple anymore to ride around your bike in Thailand.
I'm hoping it won't be too much of an issue, or if it is, that I can deal with it on the border, go ASAP to Laos, and then Cambodia, and normally at the border crossing from Cambodia into Thailand they're more lenient and may let me go without a guide.
Regarding China I know what to do, and I'm in touch with Adi from West China Expeditions to help me and take a tour from Kyrgyzstan to Pakistan, hopefully with others to reduce costs. For Myanmar I'll do the same, but I'll wait a bit more before booking that, maybe while I'm in Pakistan or India.


I'm not sure yet, probably arrive in Darwin and travel around for 2-3 months. I love the country (been there before) and have always dreamt of traveling it with my own bike so that's also why I hope to make the trip there in 8-9 months max so I still have enough time left in Oz.

Yes I am going to drastically update my timing in Europe. I would love to check out the TET around all these countries, but it is indeed stupid to waste time there now, since I can always return in the future and just take a few weeks or a month of holiday, which I can't do to get to Pakistan by bike for example.

So far I'm focusing on the weather to be able to go to the mountain ranges in Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Pakistan, less on the rain season. I can't have both, and the mountains are more important to me.
Pakistan visa I'm working on together with Karakoram bikers, I hope to manage to get a 1 year visa, giving me the time to apply while still home and take my time traveling there.

Thanks for al the tips again! :)

Hey Elsie, that sounds great!
How are you planning to cross from Tajikistan to Pakistan without going via China though?

Sure, it would be nice to meet up somewhere!
I'll send you a PM with my details.

Turkmenistan: very hard to get a visa but good luck!

Myanmar, Laos, Thailand: Like someone said before you can't cross the border between Myanmar and Laos, Thailand is the way to go.
I don't know how the situation is now but 2 years ago Thailand changed requirements for foreign vehicles. Requiring guides, permits and heaps of paperwork and the same is required for Myanmar. Unless you do this in group it can be very expensive.

Indonesia: I crossed Indonesia in 14 days, but this involved riding from early morning till late in the evening way after dark.
Be careful about potholes though, me and another rider both bent our front rims but were able to continue.

This is a very ambitious plan, leave some leeway for trouble as there will always be trouble.

Also research the climate, season, weather were you are going.
I crossed the mountains in south eastern turkey to the Bazargan border in winter after days of snow, it was a pretty stupid move but I made it through with some ropes tied around my back tire.

Best of luck!

Fully agreeing on what other recommended on the planning, and I would reduce the plan as following to have more time in case you ran into some troubles with the bike or with paperwork or any other reason for that matter. I will just write the one I would be cutting short to enable more time:

Slovenia: 2 days
Croatia: 3 days
Bosnia: 3/4 days
Montenegro: 3 days
Albania: 3 days
Macedonia: 2 days
Bulgaria: 3 days

Spread these days you have managed to acquire in European part of the trip to have more fun for the rest of the journey.

As someone above already said, you can get back to Balkans and to these areas of Europe very easy later in your life. You can get on a train to Villach in Austria and start riding Alps from there and then move towards south.

cheers
dooby

I forgot to mention this but for Pakistan when I applied for the visa I could only do it in my own country (Belgium) not abroad.

This might still be the case + you will need a letter of recommendation from somebody in Pakistan, I contacted a trekking agency in Pakistan for this.

The expiry date for entry for the visa was quite short so be sure to check that out aswell!