Silly, unanswerable question#1
 

We are two 21 year old men/boys, who have handed in our notices with our respective jobs and girlfriends, and for the next few years we are planning on working and sleeping with that sexy little lady called the road.

We will both have a fair chunk of cash by the time we are free enough to set off and we don't have to be back for anything here for a couple of years at least.

I ride a DRZ, but keep thinking that I would like something smaller to be less obtrusive. I would take any tips on that. We both have a little experience of Western and Eastern Europe, a bit in Northern Africa, and I have worked extensively in the Middle East...

Now comes the silly bit.

We don't know where to go. Not even which way to turn out of my yard! Africa, Asia, Oceania, South America - we just don't know! I personally want to visit everywhere and once and do everything all at the same time. The world is so damn big, that whole global village thing is a total fallacy.

So in conclusion, that rambling mess was appealing to all you experienced travellers to point us in the right direction. Which continent makes most sense for a pair of virgin adventurers to attack first? Where are the borders easiest and the travel best etc etc? You know the kinds of things.

I know I should just let the sense of adventure drive me, spin a globe and point to something - but it can't be a bad thing to get a few experts on the case.

Ps...another important one - where are the drinks cheap and cold and the ladies free and warm?:innocent:

Thanks.

Happy Riding.

Great post!
I have been thinking of a similar question for a little while but you put it much more eloquently - this should raise a lot of good, intelligent replies.
:thumbup1:
I would add, which continent has the cheapest travel costs?

Steal Borrow or Beg a World Glode, close your eyes spin it and where it stops visit there see it's not hard to do. It's not the destination your aiming for it's the JOURNEY to get there, hopefully that makes it clearer.

I'm just wandering around pretty aimless at the moment but so far in the last 3 months of being on the road it's the best way I've found to find new places and meet nice people. I see a sign and follow it might be a local sign might be a sing to the next major town or city BUT I bet you 99% of the time at the end of the road there will be someone who is happy to say hi to you, even if you do smell a bit.

Go explore and don't forget to write a blog so we know that your safe and well, and having the BEST time of your life.

Lee @ f650ridetheworld.com

Heading for the Sunrise or Sunset
 

Joel,

Heading off will be a blast. The journey to anywhere is always the best part, just so long as you go slow enough to enjoy the jems along the way and take the side tracks that take you to undreamed of places.

Good luck and happy travels.
Chris

Diversity v Homogeneity
 

Joel,

Lots of border crossings mean greater cultural diversity on your ride, so don't let border crossings deter you. Through Africa there are as many border crossings as you like.

If you like wide open spaces without too many countries try Moscow to Vladivostok, then across Canada.

Chris

I hear South America as no visas or carnets are required and you're already on the continent anyways...but haven't been there. West and North Africa is definitely a challenge and worth it, later on your trip!


South America again...I hear quite often!

Sadly enough, the route I choose didn't have such 'amenities'...speakking of the hot ladies that is...until I got to Russia and Korea...did I forget about Italy?!?! But Italy wasn't cheap either...

Damn...I might just join you guys...considering the MO...

Keep the sun to your back and follow the weather! :)

That's pretty easy if you're currently based in the UK: Europe and Scandinavia. Its got it all - except maybe big desert in terms of terrain and more history than you can dream of. Border formalities are not a problem, health care is good. Most of the continent is cheaper than the UK and the far east is very cheap.

Once you've had a good look at the edges you can slip over into Africa and Asia without much more by the way of shipping than a simple RoRo ferry.

Looks like this will turn into a great thread! As a virgin adventurer I have just come from Australia to Denmark via Japan, Russia, Mongolia, Russia, Finland, Sweden. It's an awesome ride and I didn't find it all that difficult, just the right sort of challenge for a first timer like me. Gives you a good chance to run the bike in (or maybe wear it out!?) and there's not too many borders to worry about. Just never say that you will be in a certin place at a certin time and really enjoy the way. I'm now thinking I did it way too quick and about all the stuff I must have missed. No regrets though!
Scandinavia has the hottest girls but beer prices are stupid. Mongolia has the cheapest vodka and best pickpockets...And Australia has almost every riding condition you can think of and no borders!

Ask a silly question...
 

...get loads of well meaning and educated replies! Who said the age old adage was correct.:thumbup1:

'I'm just wandering around pretty aimless at the moment but so far in the last 3 months of being on the road it's the best way I've found to find new places and meet nice people.'

I totally agree with you Lee, there is no more effective way of getting something done than not knowing what you were doing in the first place. Stops you trying too hard and frustrating the outcome! Good advice.

'That's pretty easy if you're currently based in the UK: Europe and Scandinavia. Its got it all - except maybe big desert in terms of terrain and more history than you can dream of. Border formalities are not a problem, health care is good. Most of the continent is cheaper than the UK and the far east is very cheap.'

Being based in the UK does make continental Europe very easy to reach. I know it often gets dismissed by a lot of Brits, but it is so culturally rich that we really should pay a little bit more than lip service to our continental friends. Even if they do all hate us. Damn their continued jealousy over the empire we lost decades ago!:innocent: Scandanavia would hammer our budget though, with their food/petrol/alcohol prices - we would have to get lean, go dry, and push our bikes everywhere! Maybe it is worth it for their famous ladies though? Hehehe.

'Damn...I might just join you guys...considering the MO...'

It's a big party and everyone is welcome.:mchappy:

'Lots of border crossings mean greater cultural diversity on your ride, so don't let border crossings deter you. Through Africa there are as many border crossings as you like. '

Good point, well made. When you look at it like that it makes a lot of sense. Plus you get to use up more spaces in your passport, so you can get kudos with those silly girls who take Lonely Planet as gospel and are always asking everyone on the road for weed. Seriously though, I have a bit of border fear. Because I have only ever crossed European borders, or flown into countries then back out of the same one - I have never had the experience. I am sure once you get into them, it's pretty simple - but all the visa del douane export customs carnet de laissez faire stuff is quite confusing for a newbie!

Thanks for the continued assistance and all the nice things said. You make me want to meet people like you on the road.

Happy Riding.

Joel

I'm hoping there's more info coming out of this thread too. I'm in pretty much the same boat as you guys, not knowing where I want to go. I keep looking at my MAHUSIVE map on the wall and getting confused as to which way to go. I think if I manage to find a riding partner who has at lease a loose idea about where he wants to go then that mightn't be a bad idea! Otherwise I'll be the one on the XT660 doing laps of the M25 looking rather confused... though all the people in the service stations are so friendly...
I lived in Asia for 3.5 years (India and Thailand) working as a motorcycke designer, so know I love it there. What's the Middle East like? Where were you? I have friends in Dubai and Oman so was tempted to head there, but I know very little about it. Perhaps that's a good reason to go... Then could hop across the Gulf of Oman to Iran or Pakistan and hit Asia...

So many choices!

Nick

(Sorry for the lack of tangible input chaps!)

Don't write Scandinavia off, it can be done on a budget. I just checked my last trip. 17 days, channel crossing then up to the Puttgarden ferry. 12 full days in Scandinavia and back via bergan. Food and fuel £395. Cash £210, ferries: Channel £37, Germany-denmark £25, Malmo bridge £13, Bergan-UK £200. Total £880. Door to door £52 per day. I camped most of the time but had 5 nights in cabins (£25 - £35 per night). I had 2 or 3 tins a night. Guinness is £2.60 a 500ml can. Other stuff about the same. If you want a piss up speak to the locals. You can get a pint for 50p in Bergen during happy hour. Reverts to £7 after 6pm though !! Unleaded £1 a litre. Norway is worth every penny.

'I keep looking at my MAHUSIVE map on the wall and getting confused as to which way to go.'

That's exactly the situation we were in! Tom (the other half of this idiotic plan) had the map on the wall, and we have stared at it for years. We would look at any random bit of it and say 'I wish we were going there.' It's taken us since we were about 14 years old to actually get this far. We had a 'planning meeting' last night, where lots of wine got drank and lots of wish list pins got joined up with a wiggly line on his map.

'Otherwise I'll be the one on the XT660 doing laps of the M25 looking rather confused'

If we see you we'll pull over, we'll be the blokes on a yellow DRZ and a green KLR, looking confused and doing anticlockwise laps looking for the Eiffel Tower, the Taj Mahal and the Heart of Africa.

'What's the Middle East like?'

Warm. Sandy. Sometimes beautiful, sometimes dangerous. I really like the Arab people and their way of life, and there are a lot of really really amazing sights to see. The best bit is without a doubt the people though, most of the time, the scenery can be very dull - desert...desert...desert, ooh it's rained and now it's a bogging filthy swamp..desert. And so on. I've only worked extensively in Iraq, but I have also spent time in Kuwait and Qatar.

'I lived in Asia for 3.5 years (India and Thailand) working as a motorcycke designer.'

Cool job, working somewhere has got to be the best way to find out about places. I also suppose that you are pretty much guarenteed a job when you return from your travels, which is nice. I don't have such a definite or marketable skill set, so it could be a little more awkward for me. My travelling partner is in CAD, so he's probably going to walk straight in to a decent job when he gets back too. BarSteward.

'Don't write Scandinavia off, it can be done on a budget'

Good work, I'm impressed, and it sounds like you had a decent time - there may have to be some Scandinavian action (is it me or does that sound naughty?) on our little jaunt.

'you want a piss up speak to the locals. You can get a pint for 50p in Bergen during happy hour. Reverts to £7 after 6pm though '

Seven quid for a pint! That's enough to make a man sober. Although first time I read that I read 'Perverts' for £7, I thought 'how refreshingly open minded and thoroughly continental!'

Happy riding.

Joel.

Hi, I've been asked to give my opinion here cause I "have expressed a strong wish to go to one particular location". I want to go to South America, for different reasons (language, culture, scenery, friends etc.). Actually it's not the question where in the world I'll go on the bike but how I'll get around in South America...
Is there no place you always wanted to go to?
My suggestion would be - surprise! - South America (maybe starting in the US), although our reasons may not be entirely the same.
The Dollar is cheap, so you can travel there from the US without spending a fortune (much cheaper than Western/Northern Europe). You are English so the American girls will love you for your accent, even if you are from the north, you'd be "oh my gawd, like sooo sophisticated" ;-) And they have a reputation for being easy.
Also I think the US would be an easy way to get used to travelling on the bike, everything you'll need will be available. Once you reach Central America, you'll have the experience of thousands of miles on the road.
South America is dead cheap, people (at least the ones I've met) are very laid back, welcoming and they love their fiestas. I haven't been to a place where it was so easy to have a good time. The language is easy to pick up and, if you go to Brazil, so are the ladies (at least that's what I've been told). Argentines may be a challenge, but well worth it (I couldn't believe my eyes when I was there). Not sure about the other countries though.
Not that I would be even remotely interested in these things, as I said language, culture and scenery are my motivation ;-)
Also I should add that I haven't done this before, some of the above is just my theory...
As for difficult border crossings: You'll be travelling for months, what difference does a day or two at the border make?
There it is, my two cents.

7 quid a pint!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

spain is cheap...... 2 euros a pint most places unless its on the costas
inland its quiet, cheap and great roads and scenery.

as for where to go, try this trick.....

ring up 10 random people that you dont know ( use the phone book and be polite, say you are doing a survey) and ask them, if they had the opportunity to do what you are planning to do, where would they go?
then see if more than one person picks the same place....

if so its popular......... which means it will be crowded

avoid it....... ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:innocent:

Weather rules all on 2 wheels
 

Hi,
I'm in Utah at the moment about to head south to Mexico, :thumbup1: having travelled about 12500 miles in Canada and USA, I say about 12500 miles because a crash in Nova Scotia took out my speedo and I didn't get it replaced until Calgary:(

I'm at the opposite end of the age scale to you guys, :wheelchair: but that makes little difference apart from having been exposed to 'social conditioning' for longer. You know the sort of thing....motorcycles are dangerous and anywhere but home is lethal with all those 'foreigners' wanting to kill you and steal your money.:w00t: I get advice about Latin America almost every day here ranging from, 'I wouldn't go there alone' (the foreigners are out to get you) from people who have never been; to 'it's great you will enjoy it' from people who have been. Go figure!!! I know who I trust, and it's not the people who have never had a passport.

The reason for the above observation is that it figured in my choice of route, 'let's start where the natives are known to be friendly and I speak the lingo.'
So I elected for trans Canada first, then head south until I fall off the bottom into the Antartic. Shipped the bike by sea to Halifax,NS, for about 600quid, from Southampton, drove it to the docks,:scooter: met it in Halifax:boat: and drove out of their docks, easy :scooter: :thumbup1: (I love these little guys)

But the weather is a big factor, it is no fun riding all day into rain, snow and windy weather:freezing: :stormy: . I have fortunately only had a very little of each and the cold gusty wind on the high prairie here is no fun, plus some of the towns have few occupants, one I passed through had a town plate either side of a single house, guess the population must have been 2.:confused1:

Canada is more expensive than the USA for motels, but there are many good campgrounds in National and Provincial Parks, although many do close from October to June. Fuel is a little cheaper than the UK in Canada, but only £1:50 a gallon in USA:thumbup1: but only 91 octane at best, so expect higher fuel consumption.

So first I would look at the weather you will meet coupled with the country you will meet it in. Snow in Europe is not like snow in Canada, with upto 190 miles between towns and massive snow falls:eek3:

Plus you will need to check out the political situation, a friend is in Greece heading for Turkey then Iran on his way to Australia, hmm may be a problem there?:2guns:

Also consider that it is the start of spring now in the Southern Hemisphere, so can you ship maybe to Argentina, come north in time for next summer in North America before shipping south to Australia or SE Asia next winter? or visa versa

The world is our oyster, it's just that I don't fancy frozen oysters.

Sorry if this seems a bit of an obvious reply, but I reckon if you do just a tiny bit of homework (which is exactly what you are doing on this forum) it will make your adventure the fantastic thing you hope it will be, and the fantastic thing I'm enjoying right now:clap:

Mexico here I come :Beach: :scooter:

There are a few comments here, like the one quoted, about where costs can be high + I've been reading about the potential to spend nearly £1000 to get a bike without the rider, to and from an island which is reknown to have a high cost of living i.e. Iceland. You can do a lot of travelling for that kind of cash (as the quoted example)!

So, where are the favourite cheap places - not necessarily "cheap" in the sense of thrashy, but cheap/good value?
I sense they are identified in various posts scattered about in this whole forum, but writing them up here, briefly, would be valuable IMO - not necessarily in the detail of towns/cities but by countries/regions/continents.
For instance, this could complement the new sections for good accommodation and workshop recommendations.

Cheers,

Small Step First
 

If you want to travel in a East - West direction, start in Europe and head East

If you want to travel North-South, start in the US and head South (or vice versa).

Answer this question first, then work on the details

No one answer here is the right one...
 

...but here are my thoughts on it.

You're based in England.
You want to see everywhere.
Shipping your bike to one of the far-flung places you want to see isn't a smart use of your money; ride there instead.
That means your first step will be Europe. It does have a lot to offer, so don't sniff at it.
If you think the countries that are closer to Britain (say Netherlands, France, Germany, Spain, Italy) are not quite exotic enough, then consider Scandinavia. (I've never been, but have a real hankering to check it out—can't imagine it would be disappointing, and FlyingDoctor speaks wisely.)
For a bit of a twist, consider continuing into Russia.
From there you have two main targets: east through Russian, the 'Stans, Mongolia, China; or south-east towards the Middle East. The latter offers two choices: Ukraine, Romania, Bulgaria, Turkey; Russian, Georgia, Turkey. Once in Turkey, you have the Arabian Peninsula or onwards to Asia to choose from.
That should get you started!

Whatever you choose won't be wrong. Get the head down, do some research, and getting going sooner rather than later.

Enjoy!

Ken.

Fuel Octane Ratings
 

From Wikipedia on Fuel Octane Ratings

In most countries (including all of Europe and Australia) the "headline" octane that would be shown on the pump is the RON, but in the United States, Canada and some other countries the headline number is the average of the RON and the MON, sometimes called the Anti-Knock Index (AKI), Road Octane Number (RdON), Pump Octane Number (PON), or (R+M)/2. Because of the 8 to 10 point difference noted above, this means that the octane in the United States will be about 4 to 5 points lower than the same fuel elsewhere: 87 octane fuel, the "regular" gasoline in the US and Canada, would be 91-92 in Europe. However most European pumps deliver 95 (RON) as "regular", equivalent to 90-91 US (R+M)/2, and even deliver 98 (RON) or 100 (RON).

So Stagbeetle - fear not! Actually, you may be spending too much on gasoline, running too high an octane rating.

Actually, running lower (or higher) octane won't affect mileage pre gallon appreciably. You'll get dramatically better mpg just by slowing down a tad. You're probably getting really bad mpg now in the US - it will improve tremendously once you hit Mexico - guaranteed!

'There are a few comments here, like the one quoted, about where costs can be high + I've been reading about the potential to spend nearly £1000 to get a bike without the rider'

Yes - I agree fully. I don't want to be spending vast amount of cash on moving a bike without me on it. Obviously there are gaps in the dry bits of the World where we will have to fork out on air or sea travel, but ideally we will keep that to a minimum. Couldn't the world not be a little more Pangeaic?! We should have set out on our trip a couple of million years earlier.

Ken has also hit my nail on the head (in a non-homosexual way.) I think what we are going to do is turn left out of the gate, try and get across Europe quite quickly, and hit some Stans. I know Europe has a lot of treasures, but they are in our back yard, and we can see them quite easily without undertaking something of this magnitude. I am excited about Stanning around already, then from there we would like to somehow get down Asia, to Australia somehow, work for a while there as menials, then see where the world wants us to go.

That is as much of a plan as we want to make really, too many plans ruin all the fun! The only problem we forsee is getting from the Stans to Asia, the route seems to be a little dodgy for someone like myself who might not get awkward Visas easily due to my past.

On the plus side, I have my final interview for leaving my current job tomorrow! WOOHOO! Things are starting to happen, I'm so excited I could wet myself.

Oh, I already have. Bugger.

Happy Riding.

Gotta' be Cape Town.
Through Turkey, Istanbul,
Right side of red sea, (Saudi etc,
Cross at UAE.
half way down east coast of africa
turn right,
final leg down west coast luanda, namib desert etc, Into C.T.

Any particular reason(s) for this, as per the original thread question?

A choice of continents
 

I thought this was a great question when the original thread was opened and I have been watching for some more input on the lines that I raised here in the quote.

As a further two cents worth, I have been inclining toward thinking that Africa is not worth the effort because of:-

a. The volatility - getting stuck at the Kenya border is no joke and, now, the competitors in the Dakar rally loose a fortune at 24 hours notice.
The continent is going to the dogs at present?

b. The cost of crossing a multitude of borders - the cost of both visas, which we are told are not cheap, and a carnet.

c. Can't be bothered with the corruption.

d. There are other, "better" continents to travel - what say you?

Really good way to kick things off from the UK is a little jaunt down into Morocco. It's sufficiently far enough away and 'not Europe' for you to feel like you're really on the road, and with your Middle East experience you shouldn't experience any of the downfalls normally associated with a first time visit (getting shafted for cash etc!).

So nice little run down through France, Spain and then right down into the Sahara, before coming back up into Spain and then southern Europe, Italy and then maybe back over into Libya, Egypt etc?

Nice thing about that little route is that you can take off at any time you like into more adventurous journeys or quickly dash back into the comfy EU if it's all a little much, then push back out again - by the time you've been doing that for six months, pushing out to the far east and over to Canada will be a breeze!

Good luck and have a stunning time. Take loads of pics (of the women).

Well how about getting the boat from Harwich to Esbjerg and turning left to Skagen at the top of Denmark, a lovely place. Then turn right and head down Denmark. Drop in and have a break and then carry on South. Drop into Germany and turn left towards Poland and then wing it.

By doing europe first you will get used to the road and find out if you really like it.

Couchsurfers.com may help you decide where to stay.

Steve

21 and ripe with wonder lust. Where to go? Any place your not.

Ride down to South Africa then up to Asia then over the Pacific to the Americas.

Dont wash the bike and it will fit right in. The ladies always expensive in one way or the other the beer always cheap when some else buys.
Stay out of places that are expensive and where all the tourist go. Take pictures where ever you go.

Europe and Russia can pricey Asia is cheap north America is not bad south America is cheap. Camp, make your own food, ride more miles were its expensive and go slow eat out more where its cheap.

The world is smaller than you think.
Its the ride the travil not the destination I remember the most.

Thanks people.
 

'Really good way to kick things off from the UK is a little jaunt down into Morocco'

I totally agree with you there, and in your subsequent comments. I spent about a month rolling around Morocco a couple of years ago, and absolutely loved the place. I could see myself settling one day in a little qoria on the edge of the Sahara. The scenery is fantastic, the prices are low and the life slow, and the people are supernaturally nice. So over hospitable in fact, that last time I went, I got accidentally married to a young muslim girl at her families insistence. But that is another story. (Ah Zahara, my beautiful Saharan flower...)

'Whatever you choose won't be wrong. Get the head down, do some research, and getting going sooner rather than later.

Enjoy!'

Thanks, good advice. My research tends to err more towards fleshy daydreams and lounging in boozy sundrenched brain patina than flow charts and border regs, but my heart is in the right place! Sooner can't come soon enough, unfortunately we are both tied in jobs with long contracts to play out, so that keeps us here for a bit longer. Sensible I suppose, otherwise I would leave tomorrow with nothing but a spotted bundle and some kendal mint cake. I'm spending this summer in the Middle East again, to stash some cash.

Thanks to all of you so far who I haven't acknowledged in quotations. I still don't really know where we are going, but I do realise that I don't need to. In reference to my first post, at least I know which way I am going out the gate - left - the rest is in the arms of God or Allah, or providence or luck, or any one of those million unseen hands that make us believe we have free will.

Birdy.

Happy riding

Nice one Birdy, that last post of yours - I like the plan to turn left out of the gate.

For your specific question here - I was reading a webpage some time ago about a guy who rode RTW with one visa only. He was a USA citizen and he got around the northern hemisphere by riding East to West through Russia and into Europe via the Baltic states, avoiding Belarus along the way (he then shipped the bike back to the USA, so he did not enter the southern hemis, or go anywhere near it, thereby avoiding the need for any more visas).

Thereafter, the borders in South America appear to be easier (this is a generalised "bold" statement!!) on average, than the multitude of problems that can occur in Africa.

Now, let me see, have I forgotten anywhere else??!:rolleyes2:

where to start
 

start your trip at the mexican border and go south for 1 year and the turn north for the 2nd year
the hotels and cervesas are cheap i don't know about the women
but i know there all hotys

Go to the closest place you haven't been. Once there stand in a crossroads and flip a coin to determine N,E,S,W. Now you can start traveling.

Pouring over Maps and actually going some place are two different things. Travel sounds romantic, but it can also be pain in the ass. Once on the road you may not like it. By starting slow, if you find it to be "not your cup of tea", you don't have to come back from the edge of the moon.

People think riding a motorcycle is romantic adventure, but most new bike owners never go anywhere and end up selling their bikes. That's why there are so many used bikes for sale with less than 3,000 miles on the clock.

I wonder why you are asking anyone where to go. If you wanted to travel you would be traveling.

Get up, turn off the computer, pack and go. And when you get there send us a postcard.

Hello Birdy
 

I have not read the whole of this thread, so it may be that this has already been said.

My girlfriend and I chose to go to S. America (Argentina and Chile) for our first longterm overland trip. It was far enough and different enough to feel like an adventure, but culturally not a world apart, so we were not completely lost. I speak Spanish so that helped.

Its a big place (Patagonia makes you feel very small: quite therapuetic to have to be put in your place so to speak!), plenty to see, lovely people and a vast choice of paved or dirt roads, depending on your preference. Its also nice that, although it can be a very empty place, the towns themnselves all the basic amenities that you might need are usually avaialbe: a nice cushion for the newly iniitiated to overlanding!

You can get to most places via one or the other, so you don't need to feel your hand is being forced if you'd rather avoid paved or dirt. (based on you choice of bike, I'm guessing dirt is not a bad thing)

Downside is that it does cost a chunk to ship yourselves and the bikes over there: a lot of petrol money!!

That said, if you go in the right frame of mind, 6 months around Europe can feel like an adventure...

Where ever you go, I think you will relish it. Have good one and ride safe!! (I'm quite jealous!!)