Switzerland to mongolia 2011 trip planning help needed
 

Hello everyone. I'm planning a 6 month trip alone in 2011 with my 91 BMW R80GS Paris Dakar. I will leave Switzerland in march-april and come back in september-october.

My Idea is to go from Switzerland to Mongolia (yes I watched long way round and loved it) and if I have enough time, come back with another route or juste go on as far as I can and then come back by flight (maybe sell my bike or let it ship back).

I would love to have some suggestions from people that did similar travels. I don't know this part of the world. I traveled a lot in southeast asia and south america but I have no experience of eastern europe.

I have found those alternatives, don't know what is the best. I must say I would love to ride as less as possible on tarmac! ;-) and I hate highway.

here are my alternatives:
1)Leaving Switzerland crossing Austria, slovenia, croatia, romania, ukraine, russia, Kazakhstan and Mongolia.
2) instead of going through Romania and Ukraine, going through bulgaria and Turkey ad then Russia.
3) Instead of crossing Kasakhstan, going through russia up to mongolia.

Some more questions:
-How is Kazakhstan?
-can I get a multiple entry visa for Russia at the border or do I have to apply before?
- How long do you think I would need to arrive in Mongolia? I'm not really aware of how far can i go in 6 month. I plan a 200-300km a day maximum.
-if I have enough time, I could send my bike to finland from Russia or Mongolia, and then drive down until I got back to switzerland....

Anyway, you see it's not clear not, I'm quite interested in your opinion and experiences. Like what are the country that I shoulnd't miss on the road or the country to avoid. My goal is not to trough the most possible countries, but to have fun, meet nice people and see beautiful landscapes.

Thanks in advance for your help!

Another point about the "Carnet de Passage". According to what I read on the HU webpage, I won't need one. According to the swiss automobile club, a carnet is recommended but not mandatory for Kazakhstan.

What is the benefite of having a carnet de passage? I was surprised that I don't need one for Russia.

http://www.tcs.ch/etc/medialib/trave..._carte_new.pdf

Hi Zimi; lots of questions!

Let me say first that there's at least two of us heading out from the UK in early June so we'll be following in your tyre-tracks! Our plans here.

Let's see if I can answer a few things for you. Some thoughts:

- You can't go directly from Kazakhstan to Mongolia, you have to go via Russia
- The Turkey route will involve the Trabazon-Sochi ferry unless you want to go via the 'Stans which you'll need to factor in
- There's several good threads on the situation in Kazakhstan in the North Asia forum
- If you want to do both Kazakhstan and Mongolia and not go or return via the 'Stans then you'll need to enter Russia three times requiring a multiple entry "business" visa which means, if Swiss is the same as UK nationality, that you'll need to apply in advance of your trip. Again, there's some good information on the site if you want to search it out
- Time depends on where you want to enter Mongolia; from Barnaul towards Tsaannaaguur or from Ulan Ude towards Ulaanbaatar and of course, on your route to get there. We're heading out through Russia and baring accident or breakdown, reckoning on it taking five weeks of leisurely progress to get from Neidersolbach in Germany to Western Mongolia. We're then coming back via Kazakhstan.

Anyone who's already been, please correct me if anything above is inaccurate.

Good luck with you preparations and keep in touch so we can help each other out.

Russian Visas must be obtained in advance - preferably in your 'home' country or elsewhere if you have some residence qualification. ie. more than just passing through.

If time is your enemy, it is possible to ride to the Mongolia border in a MINIMUM of about 8-9 days from CH. I regularly ride from GB / Moscow in 2-3 days - via D, PL, LT & LV avoiding BY to save obtaining a visa and providing a more scenic ride, although slightly longer.
From Moscow it took me another 5 long days riding last year to reach the Altai mountain region, south of Barnaul, just north of Mongolia's north west corner (Altai was remarkably like the Alps of CH but without the numbers of people and the infrastructure and effects of people living in a modern state).

Hi Paul, thanks for your reply, I'll have a look at your itinery. Maybe we will see us on the road? Who Knows?

Cheers

That would be cool.

Hi Tony, thanks for the information, I'm not in a rush. By the way, I had a loook at your webpage, I think I will have to spend a couple of hours on it, you have plenty on information for me there, cool!

...GPS points
 

hi Zimi
just a short note...the russian business visa is no longer a complicated process..all nice and easy these days.
Kazahstan was great to ride through - even though we only did a small portion of it.
Mongolia however has been one of the highlights of our trip so far...and this is after 7 years on the road! so you can see how spectacular it was for us.
if you want to read a little more visit our website -diary section - and then select the country you wish to read about. the mongolian diary starts here:
2ridetheworld.com : diary

you can also download from the front page of our website (right at the bottom) our entire GPS track log which includes all of our refs for Mongolia. dont go to Mongolia without a GPS unit AND a good map - one that also shows the place names in Mongolian is very helpful when pointing to things on the map for help from the locals!

if you want to you can always send me an email...lisathomas@2ridetheworld.com

Hi Lisa,

thank you for you post. It's good to know that the russia business visa is not so complicated to obtain! But you can't do it at the border do you? You still need to buy some kind of invitation paper that allows you to apply for the visa. I heard from somebody that the might change something about the visa for european country next years, to facilitate the process, but I don't have more info.

Thanks for you link, I surely will spend a lot of time on your webpage, and the thing with the gps points ist really helpfull. I haven't bought my GPS yet, I thinking about a Garmin Oregon or Dakota because they are waterproof and use standards AA batteries, but I'm not familiar to thoses devices. I use a standart car GPS now (Tom Tom go 720).

thanks for your email, I might ask you some infos

Cheers

Mongolia
 

Hi Zimi. My name is Michael. I am from Russia.I apologize for my English writing with Google translator.

I'll go to the wells on the route:

-Russia (St. Petersburg) (3-5 days)
-Kazakhstan (3-5 days)
-Uzbekistan (7-14 days)
-Kazakhstan (1 day)
-Kyrgyzstan (Issyk-Kul lake) (7-14 days)
-Kazakhstan (Balkhash lake) (2-3 days)
-Russia (Gorny Altai) (20 days) Rafting+trekking
-Mongolia (Tsagaan Nuur, Ulan Bator) (20-30 days)
-Russia (Lake Baikal) (3-5 days).
-Russia (Vladivostok) - (3-5 days)

In Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan, I have relatives. three of my uncle. my mother's brothers in different cities
I lived there as a child.

I'm looking for travel companions for at least part of the route. I will be glad to help you than I can. I would be glad to meet you somewhere on the route.

Hi Mihai, I would be glad to meet you, but when do you plan to do your trip?

..russian visa
 

Zimi..glad to be of help.
re the russian visa and invitation etc....go and have a look at stantours.com
David from stantours 'sorted' our russian visa for us with a small fee - which was well worth it. he is a good guy and fast.
cheers

Hi Zimi,

We are going the exact same route at exactly the same time (London to Hong Kong leaving mid-May from London) so we could potentially meet up and travel together.

Do you have any definitive route or dates to be anywhere?

Cheers,
Tricky

Hi Zimi, here my travel information.
I haev been in Mongolia last June from Italy

[url=http://www.advrider.it/archives/2302]

Hi Archengel007,

no I still need to work on my itinerary, it will take me at least one month more, I don't have much time now. I will leave in april and come back home in september. Then, my plans are quite flexible, but I have to be at the best period in Mongolia, so this will dictate when do I need to arrive and leave mongolia.

We keep in touch, it would be nice to meed you, and maybe do a portion of the route together.

Dou you already have an itinerary?

Thanks Smontic, your wepage is great, I will have a look at it!

Kazakhstan is very boring. I have always wondered what people hope to see there. Unless you plann on doing real cross country stuff like Nath did last year, its a bit of a void. It doesnt have the cultural, culinary or historical background that neighbour Uzbekistan has. As tony said above, crossing Russia between the Urals and the Altai region is also very dull.

I have tried 4 different routes between europe and mongolia and my advice is to go via Uzbekistan, Tadjkistan and Kirgizstan. Its longer but infinitly more rewardiing.

Hi Colbatch, very interesting comment, I will need to ask you some more question, but I'm open to change my route according to the experiences of others.

Anyone has the same opinion?

I agree with Colbatch did that last summer and there is only steppe poor roads and thats about it.

I have more info according route etc. if need it?

Have a nice journey :thumbup1:

Hi Capo Sakke,

indeed, I would be very interested, I'm a bit in a rush for information, started to organise this trip not so long ago and I will leave switzerland beginning of april 2011 for 6 month!

So yes, you're welcome to give me some advises. :D

Check that first https://sites.google.com/site/fin2pamir/
Then let me know what you want?

Capo Sakke, I spend some time on your webpage, and I can tell you did a great job, as I'm a bit in a rush for preparation (I spent too much time working on my bike....), I might "steel" some routes, because you go in the same areas and I understood that you spend quite some time choosing the best roads!


I'm thinking of doing it this way:

start in switzerland in april 2011, then from Ukrain follow the point 26 to 11 from your route (Kazakhstan-Uzbekisthan-Tadjikistan-Kirgiztan-Kazaksthan), then continue in Russia, to enter Mongolia at the same place as you, follow your route in Mongolia, then go to Lac Baïcal and from there, cross Russia in direction of Moscou...

Ok, this is a first sketch, might change a lot, especially on the road. I have 6 month, If it's too much, I might send me bike home and come back by flight.

Now how do you do it with all the visa?

For Kazaksthan I need a multi entry
For Russia I need a multi entry
For Mongolia I need a visa

for those 3 countries I heard that you can't do the visa at the border. Have do to them before I leave.

What's about the visas for Uzbekistan, Tadjikistan and Kirgistan? I haven't search for information now.

What do you think of the time, is it possible to drive from switzerland in april and be in Mongolia in June? Or you would recommand spending more time on the first section on the journey?
In my initial planning I wanted to be in mongolia in june to avoid the rain (water crossing etc....), As I'm alone and I have a heavy bike (R100GS Paris Dakar).

What do you think about the last part of the trip, in russia from lac baikal to Moscou? Is it worth it or is it juste thousands of boring kilometers on on highway?

Well, that's all for now, I think.

Cheers

Hi Zimi,

I have more things stored if you need it.
Just PM you mail so I can sent some doc's

"from Switzerland in April and be in Mongolia in June?" I did from Finland 12 easy days.

It's just thousands of boring kilometers on dirt highway with millions of trucks from lake Baikal to Moscow but you can do it in 7 days. :scooter:

on the swiss autombile club they say it's recommanded to have a carnet for the stans.... did you do with one? I would really prefer to avoid having one... To avoid have the 3000$ frosen on an account...

Zimi:

I'm also based out of CH (I live in Canada, but keep my bike in CH). I think you will have no problem at all in "...Austria, slovenia, croatia, romania...", but if you can avoid Ukraine, consider avoiding it.

I rode through Ukraine about 4 years ago - it was not a happy trip. Highways were in poor condition (huge holes in the middle, without warning), and the cops were corrupt. Lots of shakedowns with radar traps, regardless of the speed one was travelling it was "too fast".

I don't know what Russia is like (better, worse, or the same), but unless you have a specific reason for wanting to go through Ukraine, my suggestion is that you route around it.

Finally, a logistical suggestion: How are you going to get tires replaced when they wear out? I don't think a single set of tires will last you for the whole round trip. You might want to give some consideration to shipping a new set of tires to yourself "up-route" - in other words, arrange to have your Swiss moto dealer ship a pair of tires to you at your turn-around point, to have them delivered and held for pickup at the local DHL office.

Michael

Hi Michael,

thank you for your suggestion. I heard similar stories about Ukraine, but if I go through Poland and Bielorussia instead, the route is considerably longer. I might come from Romania, in Moldavia, and then I have a very "short" route in ukraine... Thanks for you help.

About the tyre, yes I'm thinking about let me ship one, Capo Sakke already gave me some address where I could let the tyre ship.

I've ridden across Ukraine twice, and I wouldn't say to avoid it, although most of the parts that I've seen have been pretty boring. In my limited experience in Ukraine, though, the police seem a bit more corrupt than in Russia, although not enough to avoid the country. I didn't find the roads that bad either, although you definitely need to keep your eyes open...

As to pluses to Ukraine, both Odessa and the Crimea are awesome, at least the road along the southern coast of the Crimea.

Hi

I think there's an HUBB inmate from Russia that can help you with the tires. Can't remember his name, but I read somewhere that he can dispatch tires to some cities in Russia. Don't know your route, but maybe this is a better / cheaper option.

Hi Zimi

Email me on antsbk @ gmail.com if you want info on the Trabzon - Sochi ferry. My boyfriend and I rode roound the Black Sea on Honda C90s a few weeks ago and did this route. I've also spent alot of time working in Mongolia so know the country quite well.

Ants

Still planing my journey, I'm thinking of entering Russia from Estonia. There is a border entry in Narva. But I found this...

************************************************** ************************************************** *************************************
In the Estonian Narva has accumulated a record of all of the trucks waiting to enter Russia. As reported in the Tax and Customs Board of Estonia, to date, in Narva and its surroundings crossing the Russian border waiting for 370 trucks. Waiting time of passage of the border is about 6 days.
In one of the shipping companies explained that all arose because of the repair of the bridge "Friendship" across the River Narva. In addition, carriers have once again complained about the poor performance of Russian customs, which misses no more than 35 trucks per day to Russia.
The participants of foreign economic activity (FEA) attributed this to the fact that after the close of the spring major customs offices in St. Petersburg, the city and beyond to the remaining customs of accumulated long waiting lists. Now they decided to move abroad, passing cars as little as possible in the direction of Petersburg.
In addition, a record turn out of 100 trucks has accumulated to the point passes Koidula - Kunichina Gora (Pskov region) through the Russian-Estonian border (the waiting time to 3 days). Before the point of crossing Luhamaa - Shumilkino also cost about a hundred trucks.
************************************************** ************************************************** *****************************************

6 days waiting is not an option for me can, anybody tell if it's a good idea to enter from this point or should I enter from Finland or Latvia?

Thanks

if istanbul is among your destinations, will be pleasure to meet you at our club for drinks,friendly talks and make plans for the rest of your route using the documents we have in our garage and information that you will get by our members who has been up to nepal before. also jurgens from belgium and fujimoto from japan were here last month coming from siberia and mongolia.

Zimi,

If you end up in the Stan's let me know as I will be traveling in the area, maybe also on the roads north of Kazakhstan (wardj91@hotmail.com) :cool4:

istanbul bisiklet motosiklet,

Because I've just started posting recently I'm not able to PM yet, (sorry about posting this here), but I need to fly home for a few days (on June 9th, return June 12th) from Istanbul during my trip (Germany-Tajikistan-Germany) and was wondering if you could recommend a place for me to leave the bike in Istanbul?

Thanks guys :thumbup1:

Hi, I'm not sure now if I will come back trought turkey or Romania, it will a bit depend of my mood and the timing, as it's at the end of my trip. Thanks for the invitation, for sure I will contact you if I come to Istanbul.

wardj91 ok I'll concact you, I will be there normally around july 2011.

Hi, i unfortunately must agree about not particularly enjoying the Ukraine, between Moldova and Oddessa we saw many speed traps although we rode slowly and never got stopped, also the roads are very boring. The 'Arabat Spit' in the Crimea was the exception being 140km of fun dirt, this ends less than an hour from Kerch, the ferry to Russia. I am also looking at a Mongolia trip 2012 and see the Pamirs as the highlight. Andy B

Hi everybody, my planning is quite finished now, I still have a bit more than 1 month to go. Hope everything will be ok for my visas:

here is my plan:

departure from switzerland: beginning of april 2011
entering Russia from Finland: beginning of may 2011
entering Mongolia from Russia : beginning of june 2011
entering Kazakhstan: beginning of july 2011
then I habe 2 months to do Kyrg, Tadj and Uzbek and go back to Kaz to exit in Russia again
In beginning of september coming back home from Russia trough Romania and the rest is not defined yet.

Hope I will meet some of you on the road

Thanks for all you help and advices!

Hi,

I'm planning a similar trip.
Can you make a summary of all the LOI and visa process. Where are you going to ask for the LOI? Are you going to pick up the Central Asia visas on the way?

Hope everything goes well with your trip

PB

Maybe catch you in Kazakhstan, Zimi!

Hi everyone, so I'm on my way, I started 2 week ago, I'm in Latvia at the moment, will cross border to russia begining of may, enter Mongolia at latest on the 3ofjune, then july and agust for the stans, and 1 month to go back home from Ukraine.

here is my webpage: zimiontheloose.ch | Rock'n'roll Motorcycle Adventure!
you can find the page on facebook as well, zimi on the loose

for now only in french, if I have time (but doubt it) will post in english maybe later..

Thanks for all your help for my planning and special thanks to Sakke!!!!

I hope you have a fantastic trip!

Keep in touch, maybe we will meet somewhere.

Paulo

Hi Paulo, I did every visa before I left, all trough Stantours.

To Wildman, yes could be nice to meet us in Kazakhstan!

Hello everybody. I started my trip from Switzerland to Mongolia one month ago, all good so far, I'm having a lot of fun, I'm in Moscow now for 2 more days and I want to ask you some advices about the route to go to mongolia. Here is more or less my route, but I have no idea if the cities I choose are reachable in a one day ride (8-10 hours). Because sometimes if the roads are bad, I can take 2-3 times more time. So if you have some advices to give me I would help me a lot.

Here I have 12 days riding planned, and I still have a reserve of 7 days, because I want to enter Mongolia on the 2 or 3th of june. So you can suggest where I can take a day more. And do you have some address for servicing the bike in the case it's needed?

So I will leave from Moscow:

Nizhiny Novgorod 410km EASY ROAD, NOT TOO BAD
Kazan 393km EASY ROAD, SOME PARTS BUMPY SOME VERY GOOD
Ufa 515km (what is the best way to go to UFA trough M5 or M7?)

I'm thinking now going to Ekaterinburg instead of Chelyabinsk (600km)
Then the ride to Osmk is quite long, were is a good place to stop in the middle? (1000km)


Novosibirsk 650km (should I take 2 days and stop in the middle, like in Kuybyshev?)
Krasnoyaesk 526km
Achinsk 570km
Tulun 700km (probably too long as well, should I do it is 2 days?)
Irkutsk 370km
Ulan Ude 414km
Ulan Ude – Ulaan Bataar 536km (here I'm not sure as well, how are the roads? Is there a city near the border where I should sleep and cross in the morning?)

Now I can tell, all of these roads are quite good! No problem at all, even with a street bike

by the way, here is my blog, it's in french but google translator works well, I tried.
Www.zimiontheloose.ch

my trip is finished since 2 months, total of 34'000km in 169 days.

If anyone needs help for a similar trip, I am willing to share my experience

Congrats on finishing your trip! I am planning to go to Mongolia next summer and once I've done a bit more research I would like your thoughts on route selection, difficulty, timing, etc.

Could you please send me your e-mail address via PM?

Nicely done Zimmi. I've been there 5 years ago and it was amazing. That's a lot of riding in just 4 months, but probably one of the best one can do from Europe.

How are the "roads" in Mongolia, are they building new ones ? that would be a pity. The attraction of the country is that aren't any.

Ciao,
Laurent

A ride to Asia
Clodo Africa

Hi Ibendel,

I took 6 months not 4!

the Gobi is amasing, no road at all, but the middle of the country, from UB to the west, there is 500km of paved road (in more or less good condition) and then the road is in construction for a few hunder kilometers more. Otherwise there's nothing.... which is good! If it doesn't rain! :-)